Hey everyone, I'm starting a new Pathfinder campaign and in telling the backstory of the world I've decided I want the players to participate. I think it'll be good to immerse them into the world and help them understand what happened.
Basically I'd like them to play a variety of different warriors (fighters mainly but doesn't have to be, as long as they're martial) that are nice and high level to let them understand the situation. I don't know what an appropriate high level is, 9, 13, 15 I have no clue what is best.
And what they will do is stand guard and face a horde of demons pretty much until they die, their job is to hold out for a wizard to prepare to get the f!+$ out of there.
I want this to be set underground most likely probably using the earthern race, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-oread
To summarise what I'm looking for advice on:
- Appropriate Party Level
- Builds for Martial Characters that are different from each other (even if it's just in weapons)
- Awesome encounters to throw at them, possibly gradually increasing in CR until a Pit Lord appears or something
Thanks a lot as always
I don't know if we are supposed to post links on this forum, but http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s#TOC-NPCs-CR-11- has a list of differently built npcs as a starting idea point for builds for various classes.
maouse wrote: I don't know if we are supposed to post links on this forum, but http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s#TOC-NPCs-CR-11- has a list of differently built npcs as a starting idea point for builds for various classes. Thank you very much, that is exactly what I'm looking for.
Here's the backstory I just wrote up for it
http://pastebin.com/bPfkx50p
well, you need to consider a few things... if you want the last thing they fight to be a pit fiend (CR 20), then you're gonna need some seriously high level characters to get there- especially since all-martials likely means very little healing (probably like 17-20, depending on class). the obvious solution for this is to make some or all of them paladins- its a very durable class that is martial but has built in healing. i'm assuming, though, that you want them to lose or be forced to flee from the pit fiend, so you want to be careful to either make sure that they're not strong enough to win, or that there will be enough encounters before the pit fiend to have burned through a lot of their daily resources (like smites and uses of Lay Hands). also, bear in mind that the higher level you start them at the more complex they'll be- which means the harder it will be for players to use/keep track of their abilities (if they're experienced with pathfinder that may not be a concern, but if they're not you might want to look at more like the 11-13 range with a different end guy).
personally, i'd probably do 4 different 17th level paladins. an Angelkin Oath of Vengeance pally; a half-orc Sacred Servant pally with the rage domain; a dwarven Stonelord pally with a longhammer/combat reflexes; and a human Divine Hunter pally with the snap shot feats. they'll be very durable and their damage will spike like crazy when they smite. i'd throw a few waves of devils at them with total CRs around 13-17 to burn through some resources then have them fight a lieutenant (probably a horned devil with the advanced and/or giant simple templates), after that a few more waves of cannon fodder and then the big guy; if they all have at least 1 smite left they'll give the pit fiend a good run (especially if they've managed to get there with any Lay Hands left)- if they're doing too well just have some reinforcements show up (another 2 gylou with the giant simple template should be enough).
edit: hmmm... i was just reading your backstory and realized that i somehow missed the part where you want them to be oreads... sorry about that. oreads don't make great pallies. the dwarf would probably still work, and aasimars can be from any humanoid stock so you could make the Sacred Servant a dwarf-born angelkin... the divine hunter could be a half-elf of drow stock (who has worked hard to prove himself but is still an outsider, blah blah blah). then for the famous leader make an Oread ranger but give him a couple extra levels to make up (somewhat) for the loss of durability and explain why he's the leader (or make him a pally too and just use leveling bonuses and magic items to make up the charisma penalty).
nate lange wrote: snip That's some awesome advice right there, your point about level 20s having a ton of abilities is something I forgot to consider, I don't particularly mind them being just utterly destroyed by a Pit Fiend arriving,
Quote: oreads... sorry about that. oreads don't make great pallies. the dwarf would probably still work, and aasimars can be from any humanoid stock so you could make the Sacred Servant a dwarf-born angelkin... the divine hunter could be a half-elf of drow stock (who has worked hard to prove himself but is still an outsider, blah blah blah). then for the famous leader make an Oread ranger but give him a couple extra levels to make up (somewhat) for the loss of durability and explain why he's the leader (or make him a pally too and just use leveling bonuses and magic items to make up the charisma penalty). Eh well it's just oreads to fit with the circle thing (guys who found them first, fight them last), they could be dwarves too, I'm trying to liven up the world by not going for the obvious dwarf route.
I guess we could say one of them is Oread, the only survivor from the scout party, and the rest are hand picked and teleported along with the wizard who came along.
Your reply has been really helpful for helping me think and expand this idea, and if you have any constructive criticism about my backstory plot I'd love to hear it.
if you don't mind the pit fiend just roflstomping the party when he shows up i'd suggest a different strategy:
leader: oread cavalier [standard bearer] 1/monk [sensei] 4/battle herald 8
a good character for a more experienced player- can fight but also uses tactician, advice, and inspiring command to buff the party (and helps direct other party members/players to fight as a unit). he's probably the only party member that you should try for a positive Cha mod on (+1 would be plenty), so he'd also probably be the face (though it sounds like that might not matter at all).
scout: oread ranger 13
the stealth/survival/skills guy. take the 2WF feats since you can get them without the minimum Dex- fight with a (keen) scimitar and a (keen) kukri; should do decent damage on his own but take the butterfly's sting feat and he can skyrocket one of the next 2 guys' damage. give him a cure wand and he can replenish some hp between combats.
grunt 1: oread barbarian [invulnerable rager] 13
straight ahead damage dealer; typical 2hand build with a greataxe. take raging vitality and improved DR rage power to be extremely tough.
grunt 2: dwarf fighter [2handed fighter] 13
wear heavy armor, fight with a longhammer- take Combat Reflexes! take imp/gtr trip and felling strike along with hit/damage feats. deal damage and help control the battlefield.
have them make short work of a bunch <10 CR devils before an Ice Devil with an Accuser Devil shows up to see what's going on... have the accuser stay out of/away from the fighting (have the wizard 'make his knowledge check' and explain what it is and how it's probably sharing its vision with some kind of leader); when they drop the Ice Devil have the Accuser Teleport away... next round Pit Fiend teleports in and wrecks them without mercy.
Thanks a lot for the help, I'm thinking of just making life easy for myself and making these guys awesome in terms of stats, but if you can suggest the stat range for 25 point buy or 30 point buy that would be great too. I was thinking just give them all: 18, 16, 14, 14, 10, 8, which is equivalent to a 35 point buy.
Cavalier:
18 STR
8 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
14 WIS
16 CHA
Ranger
14 STR
18 DEX
10 CON
14 INT
16 WIS
8 CHA
Barbarian
18 STR
14 DEX
16 CON
14 INT
10 WIS
8 CHA
Fighter
18 STR
10 DEX
16 CON
14 INT
8 WIS
14 CHA
Those are all before racial modifiers.
Quote: have them make short work of a bunch <10 CR devils before an Ice Devil with an Accuser Devil shows up to see what's going on... have the accuser stay out of/away from the fighting (have the wizard 'make his knowledge check' and explain what it is and how it's probably sharing its vision with some kind of leader); when they drop the Ice Devil have the Accuser Teleport away... next round Pit Fiend teleports in and wrecks them without mercy. This idea is awesome, I'll definitely do this
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pdtaj6qifaeejr/Dwarf%20Fighter.pdf
Tried the Dwarf Fighter first as the easiest one.
When I put together martial characters, I think more in terms of putting together combinations of feats and class abilities, rather than character classes. Most of my builds dip into multiple classes and by level 20 wouldn't have more than 5 levels in anything.
Here are some thoughts.
Great Cleave.
Great Sunder and Master Craftsman, Weapons: my idea of for a weapon is a Maul of the Titans, but instead of putting it on a Masterwork +3 Greatclub, put it on a +1 Adamantine Earthbreaker and also put the Shatterspike enchantment on it. It will bypass the first 20 points of an object's hardness, do an additional +3, triple the damage, and the residual damage will pass to the wielder-target because of Great Sunder.
Thunder and Fang, Shield Slam, Great Bull Rush, and Paired Opportunist.
This is a comprehensive build requiring more than 7 levels put together. This character would get Paired Opportunist via 3 levels in Inquisitor, which would also allow him to treat his allies as if they had Paired Opportunist, and so when they got the Attacks of Opportunity via Great Bull Rush, he gets one because they get one.
Snake Fang and Paired Opportunist. Snake Fang gives attacks of Opportunity whenever someone attacks you and misses, and with Paired Opportunist, whenever 1 of you gets an AoO, all of you get one.
Trip Build: Great Trip, Vicious, Stomp, Fury's Fall, Punishing Kick. A rule I particularly detest is that you are no allowed to Bull Rush or Trip any opponent more than 2 sizes bigger than you. Punishing Kick works sort of like Stunning Fist except that instead of Stunning, you make them fall down (in a way that is not described in the rules as tripping), so Punishing Kick is a must for any Tripping character. Vicious Stomp gives you an AoO whenever your opponent falls down. Greater Trip gives you an AoO whenever you trip your opponent, and the rules say they stack. If you have GT and VS, when you trip your opponent, you get 2 AoO's: 1 for tripping him, and 1 because he went Prone.
If everyone in your party sorts out a way to function while Blinded, say with Greater Blindfighting, Keen Scent (Half Orce, Catfolk, and Ratfolk, or via an Alter Self spell) and Blind Fightering, Tremorsense (Dwarves) and Blindfighting, or some magic item(s), the party can then invest in an Eversmoking Bottle and fill their cavern with Blinding smoke that almost everyone else but them is severely impaired by.
Greater Grapple and Expert Captor. Greater Grapple lets you grapple as a move action. You can initiate your grapple as a standard action and then tie them up as a move action. Most people Pin their opponents before tying them up because you get a -10 for trying to tie up your opponent before pinning them. Unless you take 2 levels in Cavalier and join the Order of the Penitent.
For races with Natural Weapons, take some levels in Monk and take Feral Combat Training. That lets you apply all manner of Monk Unarmed coolness into your claws, beak, snout, talons, or whatever. Improved Natural Attack makes those natural attacks inflict damage as 1 size bigger.
Grab and Armor Spikes. A couple of levels in Alchemist, grow a Tentacle. Wear Armor with Spikes, and you will be able to add an Armor Spike attack with every tentacle attack. If you are doing Sneak Attack Damage, your spikes will do sneak attack damage, too!
Thanks for your input, Scott.
As the plan is only really to play through one encounter with these characters I don't really want them to be overwhelmingly complex with much multiclassing, I'm worried both about the burden on me for creating these complex characters and for my players to learn them just for one encounter, but if you do have a character sheet that fits your concept and makes sense for the battle then I have no problem using that.
Equally filling the tunnel they defend with smoke may be good tactics but it'd ruin my descriptions of the demons flooding towards them!
The idea is that a group of martial characters (preferably oreads, but others can come along with them) are in an underground tunnel standing strong against demon horde attempting to break past them and stop a wizard performing a ritual. There's not much opportunity for sneak attacks there.
So none of those ideas I presented above were fully integrated characters, just elements that could be built into characters.
Here are a couple of feat-build plans.
Level 9
Human
Level 1 Fighter 1: 2-handed archetype, Power Attack, Cleave, Furious Focus
2F2 Weapon Focus Greatsword, Sunder +1
3F3 Improved Sunder, Overhand Chop
4F4 Great Cleave
5F5 Master Craftsman Weapons, Swords +1
6F6 Great Sunder, Sunder +2
7F7 Weapon Specialiation Greatsword, Backswing
8F8 Improved Bull Rush
9F9 Quick Bull Rush, Swords +2, Bows +1
Tiefling
1Cavalier1: Mount, Challenge, Tactician, Paired Opportunist, Weapon Focus Claws
2C1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Monk Stuff, Unarmed Damage 1d6, Snake Style
3C1M2: Combat Reflexes, Snake Fang
4C1M2Fighter1: Feral Combat Training Claws
5C1M3F1: Still Mind, Monastic Legacy, Maneuver Training, Unarmed (Claw) damage 1d8
6C1M3F1Ranger1: Freebooter archetype
7C1M3F1R2: Improved Natural Attack, Claws, Improve Grapple
8C1M3F2R2: Hamatula Strike
9C2M3F2R2: Expert Captor, Greater Grapple
This character would use sword and board until level 4, then pretty much just use her claws--and shield. Feral Combat Training lets you apply effects that augment unarmed strikes, and one of those effects is the ability to use your unarmed strikes with your hands full, so you get your 2 claws even with your shield.
Monastic Legacy allows 1/2 the nonmonk levels to count as Monk levels for improving unarmed damage, so the base damage will be 1d8 by level 9, actually by level 5. Improved Natural Weapons allows the damage to increase as if the character were 1 size bigger, so from 1d8 to 2d6.
Hamatula Strike will allow the character to grapple with every claw attack, and so inflict Armor Spike damage.
This character has the 1-round-grapple-and-tie-up build, too.
Father Maxwell Mackenzie, Human
1Ranger1: Freebooter, Weapon Focus Klar, Improved Shield Bash
2R2: 2 Weapon
3R2F1: Weapon focus Earthbreaker, Thunder and Fang
4R2F1Inquisitor1: Stern Gaze, Luck Domain, Judgement
5R2F1I2: Cunning Initiative, Power Attack
6R2F2I2: Improved Bull Rush
7R2F3I2: Great Bull Rush
8R2F3I3: Solo Tactics, Paired Opportunist
9R2F3I4: Judgement 2/day
The Klar would have the Bashing Enchantment as well as being enchanted as a weapon. The Earthbreaker has to be Mithril, because of the Beatles songs, "Father MacKenzie" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."
Trip Build
1Cavalier1: Mount, Tactician, Paired Opportunist, Combat Expertise
2C1Monk1: monk stuff, Master of Many Styles, Snake Style, Unarmed 1d6
3C1M2: Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
4C1M2Fighter1: Improved Trip
5C1M3F1: Still Mind, Monastic Legacy, Maneuver Training,
6C1M2F2: Vicious Stomp
7C1M2F3: Greater Trip
8C1M2F4: Punishing Kick
9C1M2F5: Improved Shield Bash.
Another feat I'd want for this character would be Fury's Fall, which lets you add your Dex Mod in addition to your St Mod to your TripMB. And Felling Smash, which lets you knock someone over when you use Power Attack. 2-weapon: trip your opponent with your sickle; whack them with your Dwarven War Axe and kick them for 2 attacks of opportunity as they go down, then hit them with the axe again after they go down!
Weapons for this character? Everybody likes reach-trip weapons, and that works. I'm the only one I know who likes Sickle and Kama as reach weapons. You don't need a trip weapon at all to trip somebody: you can trip them unarmed, but the advantage of using a trip weapon is some trip attempts go catastrophically wrong, and you can end up tripping yourself. But if you are using a Trip Weapon, you can elect to drop your weapon rather than get tripped yourself. But if you are using a big weapon like a glaive or halberd, you'll probably miss it when it's gone. I like the idea of your tripping weapon being something disposable.
So I like to use a sickle in 1 hand and a damaging weapon in the other. A sickle in one hand and a warhammer in the other: youre the SOVIET UNION! Sickle in 1 hand and Dwarven Waraxe in the other: Dwarven Stability makes a lot of sense with a Trip Build. Sickle and Large, Spiked Shield: get the Bashing enchantment and then you might work your way up to Shield Slam and Great Bull Rush, and then maybe even to Ki Throw, but that's for later on.
If you are sold on using a reach weapon to trip, check out Gregory Connelly's ideas about Reach Weapons combined with Bull Rushing.
Thanks for the suggestions, I might allow players to look over them and choose what they most prefer
This one isn't a fighter, but it is a martial character. Most of the levels are in alchemist. Exploding arrows, cool!
1Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Simple and Martial Weapons, Light, Medium, Heavy Armor, Shields, Precise Shot
2F1Alchemist1: Extracts, Bombs1d6, Mutagens, Throw Anything, Brew Potion
3F1A2: Infusion, Reckless Aim
4F1A3: Bombs 2d6, Swift Alchemy, Poison Resist, Poison Use
5F1A4: Explosive Missile, Deadly Aim
6F1A5: Bombs 3d6, save vs Poison +4
7F1A6: Precise Bombs, Swift Poisoning, Manyshot
8F2A6: +1 Perception, +5’ range inc, Rapid Shot
9F2A7: Bombs 4d6, Bullseye Shot
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