Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (Foundry VTT) CODE

As early as April 20th they were clear about this:

SSL wrote:

Is it true that AV discount will only apply to owners of the combined "hardback" PDF, not the 3 "softcover" PDF's? And that errata will not be available to the latter group?

Currently, yes, that is my understanding. The first I understand to be a tech limitation. We do have blogs scheduled that may address the errata, which I understand to be minimal.

And Mark Moreland explained in further detail why that's the case here:

Grumpus wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Roll20 will have the Abomination Vaults Adventure Path compilation available on their marketplace on the day of release, Wednesday May 25.

Do you know if you still get a discount if you purchased the 3 volumes as they were released? Or do you have to buy the new book?

Paizo Connect will only check to see if you own the PDF of the compiled book, not the three individual AP volumes (I don't even think the API is capable of checking ownership of more than one title at a time). So you'll need to own the compiled version to get a discount on the content on Roll20 (or any other connected partner site).

Folks they've literally said multiple times that the reason behind this is a limitation of their API. Their API can't confirm multiple product purchases at the same time, so it has no way of knowing you bought all three of the previous modules. It can however tell if you bought the single compilation. It sucks for those of us who subscribe, but in the end what you're paying for isn't the AP, you're paying for the hours and hours of work that went into making the amazing Foundry module.

They were also clear from the START that only the compilation would get the discount.

I think the fact that so many folks are upset, is a pretty clear sign that that message didn't get communicated very widely.

I don't read every thread on the forums. I remember reading --maybe it was the original announcement?-- about the discounts. It didn't distinguish between collections vs individually bought books.

(Edit: Found it, in this FAQ https://foundryvtt.com/article/paizo-faq/. Scroll to the question that starts "I already bought the pdf". It still displays misleading info, as of the moment I'm typing this. Paizo, you probably want to have Foundry fix that.)

I'm not claiming I was lied to, or paizo broke a promise. All I'm saying is: it's a bad feeling after the expectation that was set; it's a very customer-unfriendly policy for a company that's usually very good about that kind of thing; and it makes me hesitant to buy certain things going forward.

As for the technical issues -that makes total sense. It also seems like something that could be solved pretty easily by, for example, letting folks email customer service if they have the original pdfs, to get refunded the discount. Customer service could look that up with a super-quick check, though of course I don't know how involved processing a refund is for them. Or, if folks purchase the new one, email customer service to get the original pdf purchase price refunded.

(Edit: Found it, in this FAQ https://foundryvtt.com/article/paizo-faq/. Scroll to the question that starts "I already bought the pdf". It still displays misleading info, as of the moment I'm typing this. Paizo, you probably want to have Foundry fix that.)

Hi Zene.

Anathema of Foundry VTT here.

I'd like to start by saying that, to those of you frustrated by the pricing situation as relates to the earlier PDF releases, I'm sorry. I certainly empathize with the situation those of you who bought AV previously are in---For the record, I also bought the AV pdfs prior to the re-release (albeit with intent to convert it for play in my own private game system). I wish there was some middle ground that could be found here, but I also see things from the other side of the checkout counter, as it were, and I understand that there are point of sale limitations that can cause major technical problems which can negatively impact both customers and the business.

I do want to take time to address this particular bit of quotation---Zene, if you had scrolled down just a little further, in the same group of questions discussing discounts and pdfs, there is this text:

Does the discount for Abomination Vaults only apply if you buy the re-release?
The Foundry VTT release of Abomination Vaults is based on the forthcoming omnibus edition and will not be purchasable as separate modules for each book. The PDF discount will only apply if you have purchased that edition's PDF. We feel that the content the FVTT release will contain will make it well worth the price.

As the author of that FAQ, I assure you that question was very much at the forefront of my mind when I wrote the article as a whole, and I personally answered that question countless times on the day we announced the partnership renewal.

I wish we could have done more to make it clear this would be the case from the beginning-- but I don't know what more could have been done. Anyone who asked this question on either the main Foundry VTT discord server or in the development community discord for pathfinder second edition on FVTT received that answer plainly. We told people the same on reddit, and listed it in the FAQ shared in the announcements. Paizo marketing answered the question in the forums and on here for weeks leading up to the launch.

Sorry to have been the cause of so much frustration on this point.

--SM
Product Manager
Foundry Virtual Tabletop

You can be angry, but that doesn't change that this was in fact communicated very clearly in multiple places, multiple times.

To clarify, the PDF discount only applies if you own the PZO2033 Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults compilation, not the 3 separate volumes.

This feels terrible to those who have bought everything before the new version was available. :(

I’d like to apologize for any miscommunication or rather, a lack of communication that contributed to false expectations. Marketing has been focused on the launch of 4 hardcovers in 60 days and PaizoCon. This is a new product line and I did not know what expectations were being mistakenly created. Partners usually handle these communications themselves, but these products are unusual in that they are only sold on our store. I can’t change the policy, but I can work to set clear expectations in the future.

Regardless of communication and expectations, this policy feels predatory and not at all customer-friendly. It's a policy that very clearly disincentivizes purchasing products as they come out, in favor of waiting until the eventual compilation pdf.

And if the response is, "well there wouldn't be a compilation pdf without the support of people buying the earlier product," then I think you can start to see why many of those early supporters are feeling frustrated at being left in the cold.

I do not feel lied to or misled by any prior communications. I just feel like I've wasted money on the adventure path that I already bought.

But this product is not the Adventure Paths you've already bought. This is a new product, one into which likely hundreds of hours of work went into from the Foundry team. That's what you're paying for is that work, not the Adventure Path. Nobody is stopping you from using PDF to Foundry with your existing AP pdfs. That option still works. If you want the added bonuses of the Foundry module you can pay the people that put in the hours of work to develop it.

But this product is not the Adventure Paths you've already bought. This is a new product, one into which likely hundreds of hours of work went into from the Foundry team. That's what you're paying for is that work, not the Adventure Path. Nobody is stopping you from using PDF to Foundry with your existing AP pdfs. That option still works. If you want the added bonuses of the Foundry module you can pay the people that put in the hours of work to develop it.

Disclaimer: I, like the first poster, was able to purchase the Foundry Module for $21.00 - still not sure if that was intentional or an error.

I think the point of contention for most people isn't the price of the Foundry module, it's having to repurchase the compiled PDF despite having purchased the individual PDFs. IMO those who have the original PDFs and want to run the official module don't want to purchase the compiled PDF just to get access to it. You can buy the individual modules in Fantasy Grounds for $7.00 each if you have the PDFs. It's a shame that you can't do the same with Foundry for this particular product.

I understand that there is an issue with the API that makes it easier to check for the hardcover PDF rather than the individual modules so my hope is that this is a one-time issue.

From the looks of Outlaws of Alkenstar, modules will be released for the individual modules going forward, which is good, but the Ruby Phoenix compilation is going to bring this issue back up again.

My opinion on this is that if future releases for Foundry follow the model of the Alkenstar AP all is good. I'm happy to pay the creators of the Foundry module. If I have to pay Paizo twice for the the PDFs to gain access to the Foundry modules that is a pretty big disincentive to maintaining my subscriptions.

All that said - the Foundry module is amazing and I love what the creators have done with it.

Cori Marie wrote:

But this product is not the Adventure Paths you've already bought. This is a new product, one into which likely hundreds of hours of work went into from the Foundry team. That's what you're paying for is that work, not the Adventure Path. Nobody is stopping you from using PDF to Foundry with your existing AP pdfs. That option still works. If you want the added bonuses of the Foundry module you can pay the people that put in the hours of work to develop it.

Disclaimer: I, like the first poster, was able to purchase the Foundry Module for $21.00 - still not sure if that was intentional or an error.

I think the point of contention for most people isn't the price of the Foundry module, it's having to repurchase the compiled PDF despite having purchased the individual PDFs. IMO those who have the original PDFs and want to run the official module don't want to purchase the compiled PDF just to get access to it. You can buy the individual modules in Fantasy Grounds for $7.00 each if you have the PDFs. It's a shame that you can't do the same with Foundry for this particular product.

I understand that there is an issue with the API that makes it easier to check for the hardcover PDF rather than the individual modules so my hope is that this is a one-time issue.

From the looks of Outlaws of Alkenstar, modules will be released for the individual modules going forward, which is good, but the Ruby Phoenix compilation is going to bring this issue back up again.

My opinion on this is that if future releases for Foundry follow the model of the Alkenstar AP all is good. I'm happy to pay the creators of the Foundry module. If I have to pay Paizo twice for the the PDFs to gain access to the Foundry modules that is a pretty big disincentive to maintaining my subscriptions.

All that said - the Foundry module is amazing and I love what the creators have done with it.

The individual modules on Fantasy Grounds are nowhere near the quality of what this product is. I've sunk hundreds of dollars into Fantasy Ground versions of AP books, and they're about the equivilant of using PDF To Foundry, which as already pointed out is both free and available for Abomination Vaults. Comparing the two products is apples and oranges.

And again, you're not paying for the AP PDF twice. You're paying for the Foundry module and getting a copy of the compilation PDF for free with purchase. That's a very different thing.

I'm confused as to what the pricing is for this product.

For a new user looking to buy the Foundry Module, the cost is $60.00 and they get the Foundry module + a copy of the hardcover PDF.

If someone had bought the hardcover PDF would the price for the Foundry module be $21.00?

What is the price for the foundry module for a user who bought the 3 individual PDFs but not the hardcover PDF?

The price for the Foundry module without having bought the compilation PDF is $60. The price if you bought the compilation PDF separately (or got it by pre-ordering the hardcover book and being an AP subscriber) would be $21. Purchasing the Foundry module also allows you to download the compilation PDF for free. The individual PDFs are for a different product and not connected to the Foundry module.

The price for the Foundry module without having bought the compilation PDF is $60. The price if you bought the compilation PDF separately (or got it by pre-ordering the hardcover book and being an AP subscriber) would be $21. Purchasing the Foundry module also allows you to download the compilation PDF for free. The individual PDFs are for a different product and not connected to the Foundry module.

Thank you.

As someone who bought the individual PDFs less than a month prior to the release of the module in anticipation of a discount for the module, I wish those respective product pages had been updated to reflect their ineligibility. While I've run a couple of fun sessions prior to the module's release, I would have opted to delay the sessions had I known I could have spent roughly $25 dollars less for the new PDF compared to the old ones and actually qualify for the module discount. This is extremely frustrating.

But this product is not the Adventure Paths you've already bought. This is a new product, one into which likely hundreds of hours of work went into from the Foundry team. That's what you're paying for is that work, not the Adventure Path. Nobody is stopping you from using PDF to Foundry with your existing AP pdfs. That option still works. If you want the added bonuses of the Foundry module you can pay the people that put in the hours of work to develop it.

But you're actually not paying for that work, less than half the price is for that work. The foundry module costs 21 USD but you are forced to buy the 39 USD PDF as well. There is no one (from what I can tell) that has any issue paying for the work of the foundry team. It is paying twice for the Abomination Vault PDF that peeves people.

... you get a discount if you already have the product it's attached to.

You pay full price for it if you don't.

So unless they have a breakdown of the pricing on their site, yes, you are paying for the work, and the discount is through a deal with Paizo, not themselves cutting off the price just because.

... you get a discount if you already have the product it's attached to.

You pay full price for it if you don't.

So unless they have a breakdown of the pricing on their site, yes, you are paying for the work, and the discount is through a deal with Paizo, not themselves cutting off the price just because.

So Paizo is giving the Foundry team money as if they sold a 60USD product even if they bought with the discount and are just generously donating their sales of the PDFs to them?

Pretty sure the the agreement works out for the products sold, since again they have don’t have a breakdown of each piece for pricing. Getting angry and thinking they need to be paid less isn’t really helping matter.

Pretty sure the the agreement works out for the products sold, since again they have don’t have a breakdown of each piece for pricing. Getting angry and thinking they need to be paid less isn’t really helping matter.

But you're also making an assumption on how it works, you don't have more insider information either. And you're using your assumption to say that people complaining are being unreasonable because they have a different assumption.

But that is not my assumption, that is based on your assumption of how it works.

Do you think the current discount is reducing the amount of money the team gets? If so why do you think the discount is in place?

My frustration is not over what portion of the $60 module goes to what. It's over the $30 for the original AP that is now a waste of money. I could have just waited and gotten the AP pdf for free along with the Foundry module.

Since this is the policy I'll keep that in mind before buying future adventure path products.

My frustration is not over what portion of the $60 module goes to what. It's over the $30 for the original AP that is now a waste of money. I could have just waited and gotten the AP pdf for free along with the Foundry module.

Since this is the policy I'll keep that in mind before buying future adventure path products.

I would think of that the other way the $60 includes the cost of the compiled PDF. if you already have the compiled PDF you don't have to pay for that part again. Same as with Punks in a Powderkeg the Foundry VTT module is $24.99 unless you already have the PDF for $17.99 then it is $7.

Since I own the original 3 PDFs the value of the compiled PDF is pretty low, since they (at least from my understanding) have made minimal changes to the contents of the adventures. So the foundry implementation is costing $60 (which it may be worth) plus comes with something I don't need/want.

All this means that I'm far less likely to buy the foundry version at all, so they're not getting anything from me.

This module was updated from version 1.0 to 1.1 in the last 24 hours. Is there a changelog somewhere?

Also if I already imported everything in the module will the changes be loaded automatically or would I have to reload everything again?

Thanks for the answers.

But that is not my assumption, that is based on your assumption of how it works.

Do you think the current discount is reducing the amount of money the team gets? If so why do you think the discount is in place?

You made the claim “we’re not paying for their work”.

My frustration is not over what portion of the $60 module goes to what. It's over the $30 for the original AP that is now a waste of money. I could have just waited and gotten the AP pdf for free along with the Foundry module.

Since this is the policy I'll keep that in mind before buying future adventure path products.

Even without Foundry this is something to keep in mind when buying APs (or any serial published series, like comic books for instance), as they’ve done collected Editions before.

Not saying don’t buy them or that the collected versions are a guarantee, they’re not, just something to be mindful for going in at-release for these products.

This module was updated from version 1.0 to 1.1 in the last 24 hours. Is there a changelog somewhere?

Also if I already imported everything in the module will the changes be loaded automatically or would I have to reload everything again?

Thanks for the answers.

Link to the patch notes can be found HERE.

As for the second question, here's the answer from the Discord server:

Note that if you have already imported the module's data into your world, it will not be automatically updated in place- only fresh imports will have the new changes. If you would like to update your install in-world, you can reimport the content from the adventure compendium. This will replace all of the AV content within your world with fresh versions. If you have made local modifications to your journals, scenes, actors, and so on, please make a backup before you import the updated versions over them. Non-AV content within the world, such as journals that you created yourself, will not be affected by the import.

You can safely update the module without losing your local changes- only importing the module content into a world will overwrite them. This is recommended as some of the fixes include include changes to the file structure of the module, which you can benefit from even without reimporting.

This doesn't change the fact that as a Paizo Adventure Path Subscriber I am screwed, here, and seems I'm likely to be screwed on future releases (Ruby Phoenix?) as well.

As a "Superscriber" I'm not used to feeling like a second class Paizo consumer.

You're not being treated like a second class customer just because you're not being given a new version of a product for free just because you bought the previous version. Did you also expect the Curse of the Crimson Throne collection for free when it came out?

You're not being treated like a second class customer just because you're not being given a new version of a product for free just because you bought the previous version. Did you also expect the Curse of the Crimson Throne collection for free when it came out?

No, but the difference between (both in content and time) was a lot greater with CotCT than AV, which made it a more attractive purchase to subscribers.

The content of the Foundry module is more than enough difference for me to not feel like I got any less value from my AP sub despite having to purchase the new compilation to get it.

What is a Superscriber? Like having Pathfinder Advantage?

Superscribers are people who subscribe to the whole product line for a system

Are you sure about that? I am a Pathfinder Superscriber and am not subscribed to everything Pathfinder, like the pawn and map lines, for instance. I am subscribed to all of the books lines, however.

Those are the accessories. They don't expect accessories for the superscribers (though I think you need them for the Paizo Superscriber role)

I spent at least $40 per book for the first 3 books (with shipping) totalling around $120. Then I also spent €50 for the hardcover, and now I'm supposed to pay another $59 for foundry? Well you know what I'm gonna do? Because I can't have it at a discount, Imma spend ZERO dollars because it's a s%*#ty policy. You could've had $21, but hey, you wanted zero, so you get zero.

Nobody expects you to pay for the foundry version if its not a product you need. If its a product you need, and you don't own the collected version pdf... then you don't own the product attached to the foundry version for the discount.

I have the original 3 pdfs. I have the collected version pdf. I assure you that they are different products.

Cthulhusquatch wrote:

I have the original 3 pdfs. I have the collected version pdf. I assure you that they are different products.

This is so disingenuous. If someone has the three original pdfs and wants to run the Foundry module, they do not need to buy the collected version pdf. $39 for a few new pieces of art and some errata? Please.

Again, you're NOT buying the collected version PDF. You are buying the FOUNDRY MODULE which comes WITH a free copy of the the PDF. There is a very clear distinction there. If you buy the PDF separately, you STILL need to buy the Founcry module, you would just get a discount on it in that case.

Again, you're NOT buying the collected version PDF. You are buying the FOUNDRY MODULE which comes WITH a free copy of the the PDF. There is a very clear distinction there.

I bought the collected pdf on its own, using a discount code to save a few bucks. I may as well have just donated that money to Paizo because I have no use for that product whatsoever and just did it for the reduced Foundry module price. I have a receipt showing the purchase of that pdf alone.

Tell me again how I did NOT buy the collected version pdf.

You're moving the goalposts, You and Corie AMrie were talking about buying the Foundry Module and Corie pointed out buying the PDF seperately you would still need to buy the Module, which is what you've NOW stated you did.

Hey goalposts bye goalposts

Cthulhusquatch wrote:

I have the original 3 pdfs. I have the collected version pdf. I assure you that they are different products.

This is so disingenuous. If someone has the three original pdfs and wants to run the Foundry module, they do not need to buy the collected version pdf. $39 for a few new pieces of art and some errata? Please.

You are correct in that you don't need to purchase the collected version pdf before running the Foundry module.

You get the collected version pdf when you purchase the Foundry module.