ROW DM and Character Suggestions

Hey all,

I am getting ready to piece together a group for Reign of Winter. For the past couple of days I have done some research before going out and buying the AP. I found the synopsis for the storyline relatively cool and decided to read up some reviews.

The reviews all agreed: The start is weaksauce, the loot is a bit excessive, and the story is a smidge too linear (geas as an example). The loot paired with gamers who will naturally build optimized characters seems like I might be preparing five to six of my friends with a cakewalk. I don't want that to happen, but I also want them to have fun!

So my question is, is this adventure path worth investing my time, effort and money in? I don't mind spending some time between classes fleshing out adventure and interactions, buffing some fights, and nerfing some loot. (I like to actually tone down loot quite a bit). Is there anything I definitely should add, remove, or adjust? Also, how should I have my characters build? (point buys, extra feats etc.) And any character classes/races flavors that will fit and make the game intriguing for roleplay? What should I also avoid?

I was going to remove Aasimar from playable race because in the past I have found the race quite overpowering, and wanted to toss out Changeling as a race. I thought that a daughter of a hag could provide some extra content for my characters while remaining true to the theme.

Yes. It is. I've not considered the loot to be excessive, btw. The early magic items are not overpowered, and there aren't any more of them than in Runelords. Further, you can always eliminate treasure easily enough. ;)

The Geas is intended on making sure the players continue to try and save Baba Yaga. However, there is a better story-hook. If they don't, then Queen Elvanna will turn the world into a huge icecube. So it's in their best interests to try to stop her. The module itself talks about the use of the Geas and why it may very well not be necessary - and that the Geas is more to make sure players don't just decide halfway through "Let's go be pirates instead!"

And here's a suggestion on how to ensure your friends don't optimize their characters. Don't let them ask each other what they're going to play. Have each one write down the class they want to play before the game starts. That will be their choice. Then do a point-build instead of die-rolls. If you go with the 15 or 20 point builds, then their stats will be less than ideal.

Further, you can always up the hit points of critters. Have them die when you want them to die, so that the group has a tough but effective fight. And then don't award XPs - instead, just have them level up when the book states they should level up.

Of course, in my case I'm busy modifying everything already - I've a group of 3rd to 5th level characters (one 5th, one 4th, and two 3rd) and am switching campaigns from a homebrew to RoW (or as I jokingly call it, my Skyrim Campaign). So I've had to add levels to everything already.

I'm running a game for 5 players (Witch,Gunslinger,Bard,Barbarian,Ninja) and honestly it's only as hard as you want to stress the environmental effects.

Many of the encounters look easy as written until you factor in that the PCs will have half or worse movement, range limits, perception penalties, possible damage and penalties from cold/hypothermia.
Simply surviving can be hard if you actually manage things like making camp and eating. Firewood and food is supposed to be expensive and difficult to come by in Irrisen and you can raise the survival check DCs accordingly.

The amount of loot actually isn't a big deal during many segments of the adventure simply cause the players can't play optimally. The ninja can't sneak attack most of the time cause the reduced movement makes positioning harder and the miss chance has been a constant problem for the gunslinger.

Now, the environmental factors can make it a little harder to optimize roles, but how badly will they hinder playing? (Or can I do enough research to say: Day one, mark off your rations, roll vs. cold, k now moving on). As a player I have never encountered these (I played Legacy of Fire and we mentioned the heat at first but then I think my DM forgot about the mechanics entirely). Any notes or ways you have streamlined the rules to hinder them without hindering me? Or will it always be a chore?

Now that I am not afraid of overpowering loot that I'd have to cheese my players out of, and environment that will hinder them from becoming gods, is a 20 point buy a little low for survival purposes? Or is it just right to provide a more challenging experience, forcing them to respect the cold and work together to survive, while still providing a, "Hey I'm a hero," feel? My understanding of the Geas is it also will give them a stat increase of +2, do you both intend to/already have implement/ed it?

I want to apologize ahead of time for any grammar or spelling errors. I tend to favor run on sentences because of my background with German.

The Geas doesn't give the +2. The Geas is in ADDITION to the +2 (and bypassing certain glyphs, though I've not seen this in effect in the game so far).

Also, you can always fudge things. To be honest, my party went with 4d6 (reroll 1s) rolls, and if you went with a point-base, two are 37 points, one is 44, and the last character managed what would be a 52 point build (17, 16, 16, 15, 15, and 14 - she went with a human and choose to raise a 15 to 17). (To be honest, that was her second roll. I was watching her roll the first time and she was having 10s as her high stats due to two specific dice constantly rolling 2s - I finally grabbed the dice, rolled them several more times to find them rolling 2s, and put them aside as poorly made, and let her reroll after blessing the dice) (it's a little ritual. For some bizarre reason, after I "bless" a die, it actually rolls better, most of the time. Sometimes I even bless them when using them against the party - usually after they've been rolling consistently poorly.)

The only environmental factors you need to use is the -4 to Perception and -4 to Hit with ranged attacks due to snowfall. The hyperthermia rules won't really play a part if the party dresses warmly.

Well unless your team has snowshoes or certain abilities like frostfoot hex also know that entering snow covered squares costs 2x movement and entering deep snow is 4x movement. That restriction alone made the first several encounters much more challenging then the PCs were expecting.

In any case all the relevant info is on pg 8 of the free players guide so its not that much to go through, I just printed that page for reference.

Personally, I plan to make my RoW campaign as environmentally brutal as the rules let me. It's Reign of Winter after all! With the experience at the table, and all the lead-up preparation, my players should know that I'm not pulling punches. The PCs are all adequately capable of surviving most anything in the first part or two of the book. Healing will be an issue with only an Inquisitor, but they knew that when they picked their roles. At any rate, everyone is super stoked to finally get started this weekend!

I agree with closetgamer - especially at low levels, the environment will be as big of a threat in my game as the monsters the PCs fight! Cold temperatures, poor visibility, snowdrifts and ice will all make for difficulties starting out. As PCs level, they will find ways to deal with the threat the environment poses - endure elements will make the cold less of a problem, and flight means you don't have to worry about how rough the terrain will be.

What's absolutely hilarious for me is that I'm switching campaigns. So the characters have already accumulated a few things... including a covered wagon in which they carry their stuff (taken from an evil wizard). Hmm. What's this? Snow-covered terrain that you can't drive a wagon through? Heh heh heh...

I'll be sure to have the NPC point out that horses and mules won't do very well in the snowy environment as well. Just to be totally evil.

The environmental effects are extremely hazardous for level 1 characters. The way the map is spaced out, they're probably going to have to make a check about every other encounter location, since it takes longer to travel through the snow.

You factor that in with the party being basically unable to flee from nearly any encounter due to hampered movement, and the forest itself becomes a pretty formidable foe.

Yeah I added up the total travel time for part one, moving 20ft unhindered. Once they reach snow its double/quadruple movement. Without any stops, 0 downtime, and 0 fights, it would take 25 hours to go from Heldren to the Portal. They don't have starting out colds weather equipment (but after the rider comes in the shopkeeper could point
out that he has 8 extra pairs) if they're smart they'd bring one for the noblewoman.

They probably won't.

I posted what my guys are playing in the character thread, but I decided to gimp some of the loot, have them a 20pt buy and allowed most races that are under 10 rp.
I guarantee one of them is going to cause that travel time to triple, if he/she doesn't die first.

I read through the times and the whole book one, skimmed book two and read about 10 pages in. i'm so excited for this campaign. We start next Friday (being may 10).

Small notes: -4 for attacks in ranged combat? This is significant. This has harmed both the fey (and bandits) and the PCs, especially as one is a bow specialist, the second almost exclusively used the blowgun, and two others use the bow or crossbow as well. (The last two are exclusive hand-to-hand types, and the slowed movement through snow has hit THEM hard.)

Next, don't forget first that the Sprites get a -20 to renewing their stealth checks... and have a 2 point damage reduction. I'd forgotten both. (I think that balances out really, seeing they were only able to attack one of the Sprites due to rolling a 1 on its stealth... and the Color Spray from the ones sneaking up just not working.)

Third? Yes. The campaign is a lot of fun. :) I will admit, my group had been struggling (as I switched them from a previous campaign to this new AP and have beefed up encounters to CR3, to compensate with their being 3rd and 4th level). This new campaign path? It has seriously caught their attention. Part of it may be MY enthusiasm for RoW. Part may be the more linear nature of RoW. But there's also some magic at work here. I hope it ignites with your players as well. :)

Had our first session today. My players all either bought cold weather gear or have endure elements so I was able to handwave much of the environmental effects... For the PCs. The animal companion and a pack mule, however have been making their rolls.

I spaced the encounters out about one hour between each just for simplicity's sake and that's worked out quite well. Have the animals make their checks, run an encounter.

By far, the greatest challenge has been hampered movement and reduced visibility. The fight with the sprites was a slog that I just ended up having to cut off by having the sprites fly off. I figure they've learned enough about the PCs and we'll see them again later. I do so enjoy recurring enemies.

Huh. I'd not thought about the animal companion... or familiar. Of course, the companion is a fox, and the weather's in the 20s. I figure the fox should be okay but I should start checking.

It's the cat familiar that's the big deal. Of course, it is a cat, and I had it staying right by the player... so it's reasonable to guess it climbed up on his shoulder to keep out of the snow. But I'll have to have it start shivering soon.

Or start yowling because of the cold. Bwahahaha!

Many animals have innate bonuses vs. cold weather. The wolf animal companion has yet to fail a check. The mule failed one check and that's slowed the party down so they're camping for the night.

What's for dinner? Elk steaks.

The witch's familiar is essentially living inside a familiar satchel. I figure total cover and a mostly enclosed area is sufficient to keep the little ermine happy.

Have you ever known a cat to submit willingly to being enclosed? :D Oh yes, that cat would be YOWLING. -10 to Stealth checks? ;)

It should be interesting to see what my group does. We ended at the Lodge... just after the Ranger triggered a trap with alarm. The entire group is gathered around her... but seeing it was around 10:30 at night, the bandits aren't rushing out in a big group. After all, it's snowing out! And it's a stupid trap when you get down to it. What's to prevent a wolf or deer from triggering it?

Thus I'm having a couple bandits go out, and others watching at the windows. The players might escape. Or they might end up being rushed by the bandits... while out of their useful spells (though still with some healing left).

But in essence the group either will camp down for the night in the lodge, or camp elsewhere and wait 'til morning to attack.

Cool! Sounds awesome. My players were worried because I was so excited that I told then it was deadly and I guarantee one death (not too wise on my part). I assured them that survival and role play was a huge part of the campaign.

Also, have you guys played with hero points at all? How does it balance out with this campaign?

Cool! Sounds awesome. My players were worried because I was so excited that I told then it was deadly and I guarantee one death (not too wise on my part). I assured them that survival and role play was a huge part of the campaign.

Also, have you guys played with hero points at all? How does it balance out with this campaign?

I use Hero Points in my Council of Thieves game and the players there use them mostly for the +8 bonuses for when an attack really needs to hit or a critical really has to confirm. They also all cashed them in when a fight went south and effectively TPKed the group--two hero points per PC saved them from being incinerated in a crematorium.

It's good if you want some measure of "plot armor" that the players get to control.

We've all opted to have RoW be a bit more gritty so no hero points and we only did a standard point-buy.

Have you ever known a cat to submit willingly to being enclosed?

Don't know what you're talking about. Our cat *loves* his carrier.

Have you not seen all those YouTube videos of cats climbing into tiny boxes or paper sacks? They'll do anything if they know the internet is watching.

So what you're saying is he needs to put a hypnotic crystal ball (the cursed one that someone is using to spy on you) into the container, and the cat will instinctively crawl into it and then start acting cute so to be viewed? ;)

So what you're saying is he needs to put a hypnotic crystal ball (the cursed one that someone is using to spy on you) into the container, and the cat will instinctively crawl into it and then start acting cute so to be viewed? ;)

That's where the Irreseni Mirrors come into play.

We've all opted to have RoW be a bit more gritty so no hero points and we only did a standard point-buy.

Change the 'We've'to an 'I've' and you have my case.

One of my players can't decide what he wants to play because he's deathly afraid of his characters dying. He's trying to Munchkin his character to, regardless of class, he's an Olympic long distance runner who can snort Iocaine powder (His elven wizard in our Rise game has an 18 con). I recommend Barbarian, and he QQ's about rage fatigue/exhaustion. I recommend Fighter and Rogue and he QQ's about threat like its WoW.

Has anyone else dealt with such a player? He's more concerned about survival than character. He's also the same guy that QQ'd about ammo cost for a gunslinger and that's why he can't play one, because he wouldn't have money for magic items.

Little exhausted, does this make any sense? lol

He's more concerned about survival than character.

Aah... So he wants to be a ranger.

he wants to be a ranger

Came over today and decided he's playing an invulnerable rager barbarian with Witch Hunter/Superstitious chain.

The APs always assume four 15 point characters. If you have 5 20 point characters, you will want to ramp up encounters.

Putting the game on slow advancement will help if you want to really ramp things up.

It sounds like your one player is pretty new/young. He'll either learn or he'll whine a lot.

My campaign looks like it's shaping up to start in August. I'm really excited for it. I want to keep it to five players.

Character constraints. 15 Point buy, one trait. I think I'll be fine with most Paizo stuff, but I might end up nixing magic item creation, and trying to keep a tight fist on loot. (All of my current campaigns feature overpowered hulks, and I think I credit that to already-generous loot doubled by magic item crafters.)

I have one player looking into playing a Viking, and one going down the path for Zen Archer. My wife wants to play some sort of Weather caster. I usually make her characters. I'm thinking Storm or Tempest Druid might be the way to go, but I might be able to talk her into Witch. I don't know how much I want to do that. There is no weather-themed Witch patron. There's always the Winter Witch...

You know, there's a simple way of dealing with characters who are too powerful for the encounters. Fudge the encounters. Give the encounters maximum hit points. Perhaps give them a class level or two to improve their effectiveness. And don't increase the treasure they find - so they get the same treasure despite the more potent encounter.

What's important is that the players have a fun time. That doesn't mean killing characters... but making them think death is possible.

Oh, and five extra points for stats isn't THAT big a deal. Heck, the 4d6 method garnered me a group of characters with stats that would be considered 35 point builds (and one truly lucky player that would be over 50 points, though none of her stats are over 17). Even a straight 3d6 down the line can sometimes result in a character that is surprisingly endowed with stats.

Your implication seems to be that my players won't have fun. Is that what you think? That could certainly happen, but I know it won't be related to the point-buy level. My last several games have shown me that 15 still makes fun, fulfilling characters. (And the AP does provide further help with that!)

I am concerned about treasure. I'm usually a player, not a DM, and I've never run an AP before. I don't know where to draw that line yet, especially since my last few games have been treasure-crazy. I don't want to cheat the players of what they need, though. I hope for some guidance on that part.

I certainly intend to tailor encounters and events to my players. That's what good DMs are supposed to do. However, due to my relative inexperience, I don't want to have to do that a whole lot, at least until I'm comfortable and familiar with the capabilities of my players. I also kinda want to see how it plays as written.

No. My concern is the passion some people have shown over killing characters. To me, character death is a rare and traumatic moment (to the point that when I killed an NPC, it so shocked the party that for the first time ever they retreated. Admittedly they were fighting an unknown number of enemies but I was still bemused.

Then again, in my game world bringing back the dead is very difficult and replete with peril, so I have a reason for that perception.

As for treasure? You can always adjust it. If I've noticed one thing about the treasures offered, often they're not just what the party needed. Thus characters are encouraged to sell off stuff and buy what they do need (if they can find it).

If you are willing to customize equipment more, then cut the monetary treasure found by 90% and change magic items so that it's what the group can use and may need.

I have no interest in killing characters. I want my players to succeed, but I do wish to threaten them. I think we're in agreement on that front!