No Bloatmage, For the love of God

Please take this suggestion for PFO. No Excessive, clumsy, and grotesque "Hemotheurges".

Please take this counter-suggestion: Include bloatmages as an option at some point.

I've played a bloatmage before. It was a lot of fun. They've got a really cool style, and they're neat to roleplay. I don't see how "because they're kinda gross" is a good reason. People are talking in another thread about wanting to be able to play old/fat/otherwise hideous characters. What's the difference?

I have no idea what is being talked about here.

Hemotheurges are mages who take power from blood. They therefore tend to be...bloated. To the point that the true bloatmages actually need leeches just to prevent their brains from being crushed.

Along with troll soothsayers, they're just one of those cool little things that make Golarion Golarion.

How do you play them???

What do you mean?

Prestige class, archetype???

Do they suffer from diabetes and other metabolic diseases?

Prestige class, archetype???

In the plain Pathfinder rules, there's a feat for Hemotheurgy, then the full-on Bloatmage prestige class later on.

Soldack, they regularly apply leeches. How could they not be completely healthy?

This is absolutely a first if memory serves.

Please DON'T include X option from Y obscure book! This thread has a classic "don't think of pink elephants" feel.

I for one love the bloatmage, although I've never played one. With Paizo's reduced emphasis on prestige classes coupled with the fact that they typically are only seen at higher levels, I have literally never seen a PrC at the table. However, I'm hoping that once they're added to the game they are numerous and effective.

Here are some PrC's I'd love to see:

Arcane Archer (especially as an elf only option)

Eldritch knight: I know the magus will eventually make it in, but casting 9th level wizard spells while you beat people with a hammer is just cool.

Bloat Mage (Because the OP is mean)

Stalwart Defender***: This is actually the PrC I'd most like to see. The reason for this is that while focusing purely on AC is usually a sub-par option in pen and paper, regimental combat seen in PFO wars would be given an amazing boon if we had lines of characters focused purely on defense. SW is the one class out of all PFO classes that gives me that good old fashioned THIS-IS-SPARTA! feeling.

Mammoth Rider: A close second. I have never seen an MMO with war elephants trampling through enemy lines, and I'll tell you, as hard as mounted combat might be to code into a game, everyone will be talking about this class. Forget adding the CRB prestige classes and going from there, this needs to be in the game as soon as mounted combat is.

Battle Herald: This class just screams "army leader."

Agreed. PrCs shouldn't be added first-thing, but it'd be nice to get them later on in the game's run.

Mammoth Rider: A close second. I have never seen an MMO with war elephants trampling through enemy lines, and I'll tell you, as hard as mounted combat might be to code into a game, everyone will be talking about this class. Forget adding the CRB prestige classes and going from there, this needs to be in the game as soon as mounted combat is.

That would be awesome. Dunno how hard it would be to model, but MAN it would be wicked in game!

What if GW is actually able to do all this?

It will be like, well, Hollywood.

Mammoth Rider: A close second. I have never seen an MMO with war elephants trampling through enemy lines, and I'll tell you, as hard as mounted combat might be to code into a game, everyone will be talking about this class. Forget adding the CRB prestige classes and going from there, this needs to be in the game as soon as mounted combat is.

Age of Conan had Mammoths you could fight with in combat. Their main purpose was to destroy walls/buildings in a siege but you could attack other players as well.

It will be interesting to see how they handle PrCs, as the Assassin is basically reduced to a PvP flag right now.

Quote:

Mammoth Rider: A close second. I have never seen an MMO with war elephants trampling through enemy lines, and I'll tell you, as hard as mounted combat might be to code into a game, everyone will be talking about this class. Forget adding the CRB prestige classes and going from there, this needs to be in the game as soon as mounted combat is.

That would be awesome. Dunno how hard it would be to model, but MAN it would be wicked in game!

Yeah, I'm gonna second the Mammoth Rider. That just sounds too awesome to pass up.

I have no idea if the MMO will be "leech-positive," but I'm absolutely thrilled that people know and care about bloatmages enough to create and post in this thread. :)

Love me some Bloatmages.

I tend not to like blood mages. Not because they aren't cool, but because the concept gets used all the time any more. I've grown very bored of it. Though the idea of storing extra blood in your body to power spells to the point that you become a bloated monstrosity it pretty darned cool.

Kind of reminds me of a home brew magic system I made where casters transformed one type of matter or energy into a similar ones. The ones that would transform organic matter would become incredibly obese and in combat transform all of that body fat into muscles, natural armor, and body weapons.

I think they should be in... Even though I have no plans of playing one (I always wanted to reflavor them as just having too much arcane power to the point it burdens them... Of course, that's just me.)

Although I would think because it is a serious change to a character's body that should change a character's gameplay a bit and would be a passive ability activated even involuntarily (to the point if you don't want it, you will have to do a bit to get rid of the abilities and passive.)

Still have a while to get there. I haven't even heard about the prestige classes being in the game at the start.

I think that the "prestige"-ness of them would make them substantially less common in this game. PrC equivalents should be fairly rare. Like running into a PC with a capstone ability, running into a hemotheurge should be something out of place. Like, "aw, crap, the enemy has a bloatmage".

And yes, Marthian, I agree--PrCs shouldn't be anything resembling a priority at the start. But I'd like to see them added later. Maybe as one of those microtransaction options I've heard about? I'd definitely rather see bloatmages and mammoth riders than catfolk and aasimars.

For reference of those unaware:

Pathfinder Wiki - Bloatmage

Core system first please, rock solid.

Being, nobody has asked to prioritize non-core rules. Nobody's implied non-core rules will be prioritized. I'm not quite clear why you think you need to say that.

Its called scope creep. 6D monster type.

I don't actually know what "6D monster type" means, but us talking about what we want to see later on in the game's run is hardly going to jeopardize the plan for initial release.

Well... the tricky thing with saying "core system first" is that Pathfinder Online doesn't use the OGL, and as such, directly lifting a lot of the core rulebook stuff is REALLY tricky.

But things that we've invented whole-cloth here at Paizo, such as the aforementioned bloatmage, can be put into the game without fear of intellectual property infringement.

Someone who's very familiar with Golarion will find a LOT of familiar elements in Pathfinder Online, whereas someone looking for specific rule mechanics will likely swiftly feel as if it's a different game. Because from a purely rules standpoint, it IS a different game.

From a flavor standpoint, with that flavor being the world of Golarion, it's the same game though.

Oh, that's an interesting aspect that didn't occur to me.
So when are we getting beholders, anyway? :P

'Core system' was clearly a case of me using an equivocal term to try and say what I intended. Essentially until we have a working game with functional cahracters in the representation of part of Golarion we don't have anything. I was trying to encourage having the game itself rock solid before worrying about other things down the road however exciting some of us feel they will be.

Yes I understand the conversation was about a potential. I don't wish to deny that potential i just want to have PFO active and well made first.

As do we all. But discussing things that happen further along the line is something that should happen now--the sooner GW is aware there's interest in something, the sooner they can take it into account. A little knowledge never hurts anybody, after all.

*Inhales Deeply*
Try to see this from my perspective. I came from 3.5 to PFS just only recently under the impression that PFS is relatively new(comparatively yes) . So I thought something like the 3.5 Blood Magus was far off away(couldn't have been so wrong).
It came up during a game recently, when after words i was like, man i would love for there to be a Blood Magus again. And the GM stated "check out the Bloatmage", i was like "Bloatmage?"
Skipping the mental break down part of the story i came here, did my research and I'm trying my best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Nipping it in the bud so to speak.
All im saying is i came from this kinda of Awesome.
To this kind of "Awesome"

And i just noticed James Sutter posted in this thread... Soon...

It has also become apparent to me that for the moment im all alone on my side of the fence.

Bloatmages are nothing like blood magi, no. And not all awesome things look pretty, or even at all pleasant--ever heard of trolls?

I have no idea if the MMO will be "leech-positive," but I'm absolutely thrilled that people know and care about bloatmages enough to create and post in this thread. :)

My "Care" for Bloatmage starts with my love for blood, and ends with their(eye twitches) fatty rolls.

Bloatmages are nothing like blood magi, no. And not all awesome things look pretty, or even at all pleasant--ever heard of trolls?

No i get it, that kind of awesome comes at a "Price", but the the blood magus price was HP for an extra d6 and DEATH(one of the prerequisites to even become a Blood Magi).

But they're completely different classes. Bloatmages are hideous wizards with great reserves of power, blood magi are people who learn to manipulate the workings of blood after death. They're, like, basically the two opposite ways to go about a "mages associated with blood" concept. Why try to compare them?

You have a good point, and on another post im working on i accidentally made that comparison, but only just now realizing that i even made it. I REALLY like Blood magic and it sucks to see it Deformed into something so grotesque and for now its my only way of even coming close to what i used to have However I am working on something for the constructive side of this. Mainly for PFS, PFO is just something i wanted to help get the word out about my Objection to Bloatmage. If they Include an alternative in either or both that would be great.
Hmmm i could see that happening actually.
Also I didn't expect this thread to gain any traction especially from James Sutter, James Jacob AND Shawn Hayden.

I'm just scared that Bloatmage is the end of it for Blood magic, as far as Pathfinder Society is concerned, and i dont want that. i have lots of fun playing Pathfinder and i would love nothing more than to see something like Blood Magus come back. Tbh id rather take CON damage than look like Jabba the Hutt.

The Secret World does some fun stuff with Blood Magic. Might not be a bad reference to pull from.

I think it's safe to say if it even will appear in PFO, it won't be for years, so this thread seems a little ahead of the curve, there.

@Roma

If your objection to the way the blood mage is realized as grotesquely corpulent is a matter of personal aesthetic, then I have trouble with your public protest.

I stand against censorship, and it appears you are trying to censor what everyone else can experience because of your personal preference.

If I found the color blue offensive to my personal aesthetic should I then expect to launch a public campaign to censor any work using blue?

@Roma

If your objection to the way the blood mage is realized as grotesquely corpulent is a matter of personal aesthetic, then I have trouble with your public protest.

I stand against censorship, and it appears you are trying to censor what everyone else can experience because of your personal preference.

If I found the color blue offensive to my personal aesthetic should I then expect to launch a public campaign to censor any work using blue?

What if im Color blind, what about color blind people in general? they see blue as green. And you sound like a teenager when you talk about censorship.

I think it's safe to say if it even will appear in PFO, it won't be for years, so this thread seems a little ahead of the curve, there.

Well, same goes for all the other threads, especially the talk about chartered companies. ;)

Being wrote:

@Roma

If your objection to the way the blood mage is realized as grotesquely corpulent is a matter of personal aesthetic, then I have trouble with your public protest.

I stand against censorship, and it appears you are trying to censor what everyone else can experience because of your personal preference.

If I found the color blue offensive to my personal aesthetic should I then expect to launch a public campaign to censor any work using blue?

What if im Color blind, what about color blind people in general? they see blue as green. And you sound like a teenager when you talk about censorship.

My Objection has been noted(freedom of Speech) ;p

Your objection carries all the authority of Bedlam.

Actually, color blind people generally mix up green with red. I mean, I'm sure they mix up blue, too, but green and red are the main problems. I can pretend to be an expert on this because I know a guy who's color blind.

Actually I prefer Cruoromancers.
Honestly Prestige classes are better off being replaced with Archtypes these days which is a better system.

Bloatmages how ever need to be in the game...
They remind me of the Harkonins of Dune.

Actually, color blind people generally mix up green with red. I mean, I'm sure they mix up blue, too, but green and red are the main problems. I can pretend to be an expert on this because I know a guy who's color blind.

There are a number of different kinds of "color blindness", most are partial from what I recall. Also, from my sometimes fallible memory, Red-Green is the most common. It's not so much a matter of them mixing them up as they simply look the same. Sometimes a clue will allow them to differentiate such as the position on a traffic light. The sideways ones must be a real pain if you are red green color blind.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Red-green is the more common variety, and they're mixed up. I just didn't speak quite technical-enough. ;)

Honestly Prestige classes are better off being replaced with Archtypes these days which is a better system.

Yup, I definately prefer archetypes over Prestige Classes. In PnP I strongly prefer to use Prestige Classes as something that must be gained in game, usually including a decent amount of roleplaying (e.g. accepted into a society to begin training in 'secret' skills, as opposed to wake up one morning and discover that somehow youve become and Arcane Archer.). Besides its just plain fun to slightly tweak your class instead of overhauling and mixing it up with another one :D

Being wrote:

@Roma

If your objection to the way the blood mage is realized as grotesquely corpulent is a matter of personal aesthetic, then I have trouble with your public protest.

I stand against censorship, and it appears you are trying to censor what everyone else can experience because of your personal preference.

If I found the color blue offensive to my personal aesthetic should I then expect to launch a public campaign to censor any work using blue?

What if im Color blind, what about color blind people in general? they see blue as green. And you sound like a teenager when you talk about censorship.

My Objection has been noted(freedom of Speech) ;p

I am colorblind. Makes computer games tough sometimes

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Actually, color blind people generally mix up green with red. I mean, I'm sure they mix up blue, too, but green and red are the main problems. I can pretend to be an expert on this because I know a guy who's color blind.

There are a number of different kinds of "color blindness", most are partial from what I recall. Also, from my sometimes fallible memory, Red-Green is the most common. It's not so much a matter of them mixing them up as they simply look the same. Sometimes a clue will allow them to differentiate such as the position on a traffic light. The sideways ones must be a real pain if you are red green color blind.

For me the differences in color are muted so i see "light colors" red, yellow and orange but cannot often tell which it is or "dark colors" like blue, green and purple. I drove a car for months once before anyone told me i was wrong on what color i thought it was