Help with picking feats for a melee bard.


Advice

Silver Crusade

ATM, I have a few different ideas, and was looking for thoughts on effectiveness of the feats.
Stats at the moment are-
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 14 (level boosts go here until at least 16)

at the moment, I have-
Free- EitR (power attack, deadly aim, weapon finesse etc)

1- Step up, Arcane Strike (arcane duelist), Lingering Performance
2- Combat Casting
3- Following step
5- Dodge(comes with mobility)
6- Disruptive (AD)
7- Spell song
9- Spring Attack
11- Discordant Voice

Feats I'm not 100% on-
Lingering Performance- Its nice, but by level 5, I shouldn't really be using all my performances regularly. The only time I really went performance heavy was a meastro bard that made liberal use of masterpieces.

Dodge/Spring attack- I enjoyed whirlwind strike builds on my flagbearer bard that made use of Longspears, and dodge/spring attack might increase my survivability, but I feel like in a party based game, it doesn't do all that much. (solo this looks pretty neat).

That said, I'm not sure what would be a good replacement for these. Maybe Improved Initiative/steadfast personality? Combat reflexes and step up and strike?


What weapon(s) are you using?

You could take Power Attack and Furious Focus for some free damage when you Spring Attack.

Riving Strike if there are casters in the party.

What do you want to get out of these feats? Are you wanting to be more combat effective? Add new options for actions? Cast better? Something else? Or maybe you're not sure and just asking for ideas?

Silver Crusade

I suggest taking Improve Initiative. It reduces the times that you get caught flat-footed (and thus at lower AC) on the first round. I regretted not taking it earlier for my Dawnflower Dervish, for just that reason.


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Yeah Improved Initiative is probably the best general advice, I've never heard anyone say: "I really want to go before the bard".


If you are going to be a fighting bard you need hit points so toughness, you need a good fort save so Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative is a no-brainer, you need to boost damage improved critical at some point.

With regard to weapon choice I would go longspear and be more survivable. I've played a bard to high level and they are not that tough without a lot of feat investment.

Silver Crusade

I've played a longspear bard, its pretty fun, and honestly is a great "mook" clearer with whirlwind attack. Does decent on single target as well. That said, thats not really what I want this time around. I've also decided on a style that focuses more on "swordsmanship" to help fit the setting.

So, to answer a few questions-
I'm considering using an Estoc, or Elven curved blade for a finesse two-handed weapon. Alternatively, I was considering using a Rapier with a buckler.

I'm looking for a decent melee combatant, one that could hold his own, and maybe even beat a "martial" later on by utilizing buff spells. Or at least put up a hell of a fight. So his feats I'm gearing towards general combat utility. I'm taking the arcane duelist class, so I figured step up and following step would be good to help make sure he can make use of the free feats he gains eventually. (sadly, won't help vs conjuration wizards :( )

I don't plan for him to make use of offensive spells, his charisma just isn't high enough for it. So he will be taking mostly buff/support/removal spells.

General advice is welcome as well, I've considered swapping the Dex and Strength around, which would open up more weapon options, but I'm hesitant to go with such a low dex. (14)

We are running with the feat tax rules, so power attack and weapon finesse are both free for me/given to me already.


Fair enough.

I agree that you want Toughness then, and you probably want to spend your FCB on HP too.

If you're playing more defensively with Spring Attack then Furious Focus is free damage with a 2-handed weapon.

Honestly, the advantage of wielding a 2-handed weapon is that your feat progression usually goes: 1. Power Attack, 2. Done. As a Bard you can add things like Arcane Strike, but it's all icing on the cake.

Get the feats you need to survive the front line and then whatever else suits your fancy.


If you want to have dex-to-damage, Dervish Dance takes the least amount of feats. On the other hand, dipping a level of Swash will net you any of the Grace lines quickly since you can swap the bonus Weapon Finesse for another feat. And it gives Parry which helps with defense. If you really want that rapier, dipping IB Swash will not only give you the entire Fencing Grace line but you'll still have the first level feat open for anything else as well as a bit more panache for more parrying.

Also, do you care about buffing the entire party with performance all that much? There's a Bard archetype called Archaeologist that changes it out for self-buffing. It gets several Rogue abilities as well as Rogue Talents every 4th level.

Silver Crusade

The Dawnflower Dervish Bard spends the least amount of feats to get Dex to damage: none. :)
It's a different style of play however, so may not be for everyone. It does tend to be the tankiest of all the bards. The feat tax rules certainly do reduce the Dawnflower Dervish's feat advantage.

Silver Crusade

I think I want to keep the additional flavor of the bard songs, since he -is- a bard, as it were.

I've got two updated lists, with a few minor changes. With listed alternative options I would like to hear thoughts on-

First, keeping with a two-handed approach, although I think it works decently well for rapier+buckler as well-

Same stat array

Feats-
1- Step up, Improved Initiative, Arcane strike (arcane duelist), power attack/weapon finesse (free)
2- combat casting
3- Dodge(and mobility) - alternative- Greater fortitude
5- Following Step- alternative
6- Disruptive
7- Furious Focus - Alternative- Spell Song
9- Spring Attack - Alternative- Improved Greater fortitude
10- spell breaker
11- Discordant Voice

The second line of thought I had. This makes use of 1 level dip into swashbuckler.
New stat array-
Str: 12 (for carry capacity and some damage level 1 and 2)
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 08
Cha: 14

Feats-
1st- Step up, Improved Initiative, Arcane strike (arcane duelist), power attack/weapon finesse (free)
2- Weapon focus (rapier)- Inspired Blade
3- Combat casting, Fencing Grace
5- Dodge
7- Following Step, Disruptive
9- ???
11- Discordant Voice.

This does however cost a level of bard.


I believe you get to swap out the Swash's bonus Weapon Finesse for another feat using EITR rules. So with the Inspired Blade archetype, you'd get both Weapon Focus and Fencing Grace at the same time. GM call though, of course.


An outlier with this kind of build might be dragon disciple, with the favoured prestige class and prestigious spellcaster feats (so 2-4 feats according to how many levels you want) you gain 3 back in bloodline feats (4 good ones, toughness, power attack, Improved Initiative & Quicken Spell) but you gain more hit points, better fort saves, stat increases, natural armour, breath weapon and don't lose any spellcasting. Performance is lessened yes but you are more of a melee beast.

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