Conquering Heroes (PFRPG) PDF

Now available! :-)

I've now got all of the blank Heroes stuff. Interesting characters.

Cool. Thank you for your devoted patronage. It is very much appreciated. I was never really sure how these pregen products were going to do, but so far, they've been really popular. I'm glad people are finding them useful and interesting.

Hope you this one!

The "Kingbreaker" adventure path?

I am not familiar with that product.

The "Kingbreaker" adventure path?

I am not familiar with that product.

Basically it's their own take on the "Kingmaker" AP.

Lord Fyre wrote:

The "Kingbreaker" adventure path?

I am not familiar with that product.

Basically it's their own take on the "Kingmaker" AP.

I was wondering if that was intentional or a typo. :)

Educated guess:
Most of the content of Paizo-published APs, including their names, are Product Identity of Paizo. Other publishers face legal hurdles to using those names in their own products, even products meant as expansions for the APs, so it's easier and safer to use names that allude to the proper name of the AP in question, rather than use that proper name outright. That way, publishers can make products to enhance the experience of playing an AP, customers can buy them and use them in the appropriate places with only a little interpolation, more people buy more APs (and 3PP supplements to go with them), sales of future Paizo APs likely go up, and Paizo themselves don't have to call in the lawyers. Everybody wins. ;D

Trace has it right on the money. We had originally planned to call it the "Kings and Kingdoms AP," a mundane but clear enough name like the "Gothic AP" for CC and the "Far East AP" for JR, but Clark suggested Kingbreaker as a name. We kinda liked it. It rhymes with the Paizo AP's name, evokes the feel of it, and sounds a lot more interesting than "Kings and Kingdoms"!

Hope you enjoy the Heroes!

Hmmm...this one's been out for awhile now, but no reviews yet? Did Endy and Eric fall behind on their review schedule? ^_^

I'll be picking it up as soon as I may, and then comes the review.

Cool. I thought you would've jumped on this one right away. Didn't you mention it was one of the series you were anticipating the most? Or, was that someone else?

I was and am looking forward to getting a copy, but I still wanted to get Cold Mountain and Ultimate Rulership first. That and some cash trouble on my end when it first became available.

I'm debating writing up a formal review of this one, but I'm not sure how much my issues with the product should really count for review purposes. Basically, I thought the notes on potential intra-party interactions were better in Imperial Heroes, and here they come up a bit short, or at least not as detailed. Stats-wise of course it's a great book, diverse and yet intricately designed, but the role-play notes feel a bit lacking. It just reads like there's less potential or guidance for relationships between the various characters, and not just romantic ones. I'd like to have seen more on just who would tend to get along, or not, with whom, for one. Yes, if they're going to be used as actual PCs that will happen organically as the players will it, but it's really handy for those of us using these "books" as sources for NPC parties.

Is that enough justification for a review score to drop from 5 stars to 4? For most people's purposes when thinking about buying this file I wouldn't think so, but for me personally, yeah, I'd say it is. Then again, I'd make the same deduction of score for Gothic Heroes as well. Imperial Heroes is a 5, this is a 4.5. Plus nothing from Conquering Heroes really matches the mad genius (or just plain madness) of a goblin ninja.

...I thought the notes on potential intra-party interactions were better in Imperial Heroes, and here they come up a bit short, or at least not as detailed.... the role-play notes feel a bit lacking.... there's less potential or guidance for relationships between the various characters....

That's all useful feedback regardless, Kvantum. So, I appreciate the time you took to articulate it. I haven't always been able to gather from the various reviews for these pregens what elements of each design are the most appealing to everyone. For instance, are the roleplaying notes useful at all? Ditto for the advancement notes? Do people like interweaving character relationships between them or do they prefer standalone backgrounds for maximum portability without having to string along another character for everything to make sense? Do the physical descriptions and personality sections give better character immersion to someone who's going to use them in a game? What about the in-character quote? Is that useful or a waste of space?

So far, I've tried to be judicious and a bit restrained in each section, but each one still feels important to me. Nevertheless, there's a word count I've been striving to meet for each write-up, as well (i.e., 1400 words or thereabouts), because that's the same limitation we're under when we write a two-page spread for NPCs in the appendix of an AP module for Paizo. Of course, in LG's PDF format, I could go on and on...layering in more detail...and believe me, I get very detailed if left to my own devices. But, I don't want to overdo it either. And, there's always a point where the time investment we put into these PDFs as authors starts to have diminishing returns for the price point we've established for them. Jason's been producing some larger products (with higher price points) to test the waters for what's possible...and we're seeing some mixed results (i.e., slightly fewer sales, but more return on each individual sale).

So, I'm somewhat reluctant to go full throttle by piling on more and more content for the pregen PCs. That's because they already carry a premium price point. I've certainly done everything I can to make sure the value is there...not just from the writing, but the full-page art, the paper mini's, and so on. But, even so, there's only so many words I can really devote to each character concept. And, I need to do each section justice. Based on your feedback, I think I'll go into the next one looking for all the various ways I can maximize the relationships between the characters. But, I also know I'll be juggling my word count to make sure I can squeeze that in somewhere.

...nothing from Conquering Heroes really matches the mad genius (or just plain madness) of a goblin ninja.

Really? I thought the treesinger druid having a dryad-like relationship with her treant plant companion was kind of inspired. It seemed like a really appropriate thing to layer into the overall campaign for that AP plug-in. I wonder how much of the love for the Imperial Heroes write-ups stems from the pregens' relationships and roleplay potential with the other NPCs (i.e., Ameiko, Shalelu, etc.)? Unfortunately, the sandbox campaign for Kingmaker doesn't quite have those kinds of hooks to draw upon. So, it's more difficult to interweave the Conquering Heroes in the same way. Food for thought all around, I guess.

Thanks,
--Neil

I'm debating writing up a formal review...

By the way, as long as you're considering some formal reviews, I noticed you haven't posted one for Imperial Heroes yet. So, that'd be a great place for indicating the specific elements you liked about that one. Not only would that prove helpful for others buying the product, but that's how I learn what people like or don't like as I go into the next one. So, throw something up there at the very least, because it sounds like certain elements in that one really worked well for you.

What Neil said. :)

Seriously, if you've got a product where you've got something meaningful to say about it, by all means post up a review, though posting on the boards is also helpful in terms of giving us the feedback we need to keep making every product better than the last if we can.

Thanks for the review, Dev Bob!

Thanks DB!

And reviewed first on Endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com's store. Cheers!

Thanks for the review Endy! I hope you've got some more LG products on your docket.

[slight derail]Having now tried to do this myself, making multiple interesting pre-generated characters at the same time is much harder then it looks.[/slight derail]

Indeed -more LG-products coming up VERY soon! :D

[slight derail]Having now tried to do this myself, making multiple interesting pre-generated characters at the same time is much harder then it looks.[/slight derail]

I know I certainly put a lot of time, thought, and effort into them. The approach I always take is to imagine it as if I were casting a movie. I already know basic storyline, but maybe I haven't yet settled on which characters will get the chance to expeience it. Then, based on that foundation, I look across all the various race/class/archetype variations...as compared to the campaign arc of a specific AP...and I ultimately decide at that point which characters I think would add (and get) the most from the campaign's story.

Once I've settled on that, I have my cast of characters. And, from there, I just go through iterations of constructing each one as if it were the PC I intended to play in that particular campaign, looking for ways to make them as individually interesting (and compelling) as possible. Usually, that involves stringing together the individual story arcs for each character with hints towards how they'll grow and develop (and change) over the course of the campaign. And, where possible, I try to weave some of those threads together via inter-party relationships...or, at least, the potential for such relationships...to kind of hook these characters to one another in a way that makes them a stronger band of adventurers rather than just stand-alone characters.

In the end, it's a complex web to weave, but I'm the kind of detailed person who enjoys going as deeply as I can in these designs. I only have so much room to do everything justice in what amounts to about a 1400-word write-up. So, I try to cram as much useful stuff in there as possible for everyone. It's a fun design challenge.

And reviewed first on Endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com's store. Cheers!

Thanks for the review, Endy. It's always appreciated. Plus, I happen to be working on a new set right now, so I can immediately apply some of your feedback as I put the finishing touches on them.

Are there plans to do a pirate-themed edition? That would be handy.

Are there plans to do a pirate-themed edition? That would be handy.

As a matter of fact, yes! Neil has written a lot of the product already. Expect this one to come out shortly after the release of the Advanced Class Guide, as Neil was very keen to include a Swashbuckler as one of the characters. The rest of the product will be written up, including the character history, background, and advancement notes, and most of the stat block for the swashbuckler, leaving only the final class-related mechanics to be filled in with the final version when the book is publicly available.

Neil will also be creating a pregen product designed to work in conjunction with the upcoming Iron Gods AP, so look for that later this year as well.

Neil will also be creating a pregen product designed to work in conjunction with the upcoming Iron Gods AP, so look for that later this year as well.

Jason, I've been throwing my credit card at the screen for five minutes and nothing's happened yet. What's wrong?

WANT.

I just noticed Faun the druid has a +5 Diplomacy and only +1 in Ride. Am I missing something here?

I just noticed Faun the druid has a +5 Diplomacy and only +1 in Ride. Am I missing something here?

Diplomacy is 1 skill rank, +1 Cha mod, and +3 for class skill = +5.

Hope that helps,
--Neil

Okay looks like I just wasn't thinking on the Ride skill but Diplomacy isn't a class skill for Druids.

Hmmm...it appears you're correct. I'm not sure what happened there. I always rely on a spreadsheet to crunch everything when creating stat-blocks. For some reason, Faun's spreadsheet kept Diplomacy as a class skill. It's possible at some point, I originally intended her to have the Ease of Faith trait (which would have given her a +1 trait bonus on Diplomacy checks and made it a class skill for her). But then, maybe I changed that to the Forlorn racial trait for elves instead?

Bottom line, it's more important for her to have Diplomacy as a class skill than for her to be Forlorn. So, my suggestion would be to nerf her Fortitude saves by 1 (in removing the Forlorn trait), and then give her the Ease of Faith trait, thereby increasing her Diplomacy to +6.

Thanks for the reply, Jason. Looking forward to what Neil comes up with, especially when it comes to the Tengu. There will be a Tengu, yes?

There will be a Tengu, yes?

Maybe. ;)

You realize no one's gonna remember "Ornmeil'lon" at the game table and just refer to the treant companion as "Groot", right? lol

Looks good though, I might get it.