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New Paths #1: The Expanded Spell-less Ranger (PFRPG) PDF

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Aragorn Didn't Cast Spells!

Just because some designer thought rangers should be spell-slingers doesn't make it right! With The Expanded Spell-Less Ranger, you can now play an authentic ranger without spells, but with great new abilities.

Welcome to the Expanded Spell-Less Ranger, a base class for the Pathfinder RPG that was first presented in Kobold Quarterly #11 and which reviewers called a "must-read" at RPG Geek.

The removal of spells makes this a true ranger-type, but the new powers and expanded abilities mean that the Spell-Less Ranger can hold his own in a fight. With new animal companion options and Ranger Talents, this class covers the hunter's bond, fast movement, expanded tracking, hunting, additional favored enemies, trap handling, and much more, all in keeping with the ranger you know from The Lord of the Rings.

The Expanded Spell-less Ranger includes much new material beyond the original magazine version, such as two new archetypes for the companion-bound ranger and the dual-style ranger, plus new feats specific to this ranger that make them masters of their terrain. Includes a full 20-level character progression plus tracking sheets for favored terrain, enemies, and companions.

Be a real ranger! Get The Expanded Spell-Less Ranger today!

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An RPG Resource Review

5/5 —

This base class variant is based around a premise that seems to strike the author rather hard: why should a ranger, of all people, cast spells? The argument is compelling. If you look at what a ranger can do - track and scout, live off the land, fight well, hunt - there doesn't seem to be much need for magic. Moreover, although ranger-style characters feature in fantasy literature, none of them have chucked spells around.

So here is presented a variant on the standard ranger class who doesn't use spells at all. Instead, he has a devastating stealth attack and an array of 'talents' to choose as he rises in level. There's also a nature's healing ability which grants bonuses to Heal checks when the ranger is in a favoured environment.

As well as all the information required to create and play a Spell-less Ranger, there are some new feats and a couple of archetypes - the Dual-Style Ranger (who hones his combat skills) and the Companion-Bound Ranger (who is exceptionally close to his animal companion). Finally there are some notes on ranger fighting styles, drawing on the Advanced Player's Guide, a character sheet for an animal companion and a couple of tracking sheets for the ranger's abilities.

Overall, it's a nice package. I've played many a ranger over the years and always felt that magic didn't sit well with the few of them that got high enough in level to use it, so this makes a useful addition to the options available.

Now we are talking

5/5 —

Every change is in most of cases both:, Flavorlful and utiity. im not going to specif what it has inside, the other reviewers do it so well that i have nothing more to tell about.

This is a mix between ranger and rogue, in fact, this is the way i always want to play a ranger without spells!!

it Must be into your "must to have it"

Rangers how they were meant to be

5/5 —

This pdf is 15 pages long, 1 page front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page SRD, leaving 12 pages of content, so let's check this one out!

For those of you not in the know: In KQ #11, Marc Radle created an alternate version (meaning no multiclassing with the regular ranger-class) of the ranger-class that fits closer with irl mythology: The spell-less ranger replaces spells with a selection of neat ranger talents - a great approach that has been expanded in this pdf, but let me give you the run-down:

The spell-less ranger gets full BAB, d10, 6+Int skills per level, good fort- and ref-saves, up to 5 favored terrains, up to 4 favored terrains and additionally stealth attack (which is a terrain/favored enemy-based, weaker variant of sneak attack), combat styles, 4 special uses of the healing-skill when in favored terrain (including treating deadly wounds, poisons and diseases) and so-called ranger talents: A total of 25 are provided and run the whole gamut from additional animal companions, bonus feats, less fall damage, scent, the ability to negate concealment via hawk's eyes, trackless stride and improved swimming and climbing capabilities. High-level rangers also can look forward to quarry, improved quarry, hide in plain sight etc.

The result of the changes made to the class are evident - looking at the ranger talents it becomes rather clear that a regular fighter won't outshine a guerilla-style archer ranger, for example, defining the niche of the class more closely. 18 new feats help the ranger by providing further customization options that range from the rather simple "Additional favored terrain" to very interesting feats: "Coordinated Attack" gives your companion access to all your teamwork feats. Another interesting one would be "Defensive Shot", which FINALLY gives you the chance to use ranged weapon in melee with a penalty. A godsend for campaigns without divine magic (or groups without primary healers) is "Improved Nature's Healing", which significantly improves the amount of Hp you may heal by using that ability. Add to that the increased damage output via "Deadly Accuracy" and its improved version (which let you reroll 1s and 2s of ranged attack-damage-rolls) and we have a great class to simulate e.g. the deadly elven guerilla fighter. All in all, I considered the feats to be well-crafted and none of them to be overpowered or utterly boring. (I'd btw. suggest to add SGG's Knacks from their Ranger-book to the list of available ranger talents!)

This is not where the pdf stops, though: We also get two new archetypes for the ranger: The Dual-style ranger gets only one favorite enemy, but two combat styles. The companion-bound ranger is rather complex and can select from a druid's companion-list, enhance his companion, gain aforementioned coordinated companion etc., but at the cost of his favored terrain, camouflage etc.

The pdf also includes info on the 5 styles introduced in the APG and does something EXTREMELY useful: It provides us with a favored-enemy/terrain-char-sheet to add to your regular char-sheet - useful, well-constructed, awesome! Even better, we get yet another extra sheet for animal companions that could also be used for familiars etc. and makes for one of the most clearly arranged ones I've seen so far. Kudos for this great bonus!

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are top-notch, I didn't notice any glitches. Layout adheres to an easy-to-read, relatively printer-friendly 2-column standard. The pdf has a beautiful front cover, but no bookmarks, which is a bummer in this day and age. Due to being relatively short, I'm willing to let that one slip, though. The spell-less ranger is popular for a reason - Marc Radle has crafted an excellent alternate class and with the new expanded material herein, there are even more reasons to go spell-less than before. This alternate class is awesome, well-designed and the additional content lacks any feats, crunch, etc. I'd consider badly designed or unbalanced. In fact, I absolutely love this take on the ranger, as it makes the class feel more unique and less than a fighter/druid-hybrid. After SGG's stellar "Ranger's Options: Knacks of Nature", this is the second book in a short space that easily can be considered to be a stellar pick for any fans of the concept of the ranger, but not its core-execution. Even for the adherents of spellcasting this pdf is well worth the pick for the archetypes/feats and if you can spare the bucks, combine its talents with SGG's knacks (by e.g. adding the talents as knacks or vice versa) - I guarantee you won't find the result unbalancing. When all's said and done, a great start for the new line, Marc Radle did an awesome job and I look forward to seeing more! My final verdict? 5 stars + Endzeitgeist seal of approval.

Endzeitgeist out.

15 Pages of Absolute Glory

5/5 —

Okay this is my first product review on the Paizo site, and I really feel like this was the book to receive my praise. I am very hard to please when it comes to OGL content, and most I have read are pretty good at best but this one definitely takes the cake. Marc, Wolfgang and the crew from Kobold Quarterly have brought forth this piece of magic (haha magic from a magic-less book) and have presented us with a way to play the original iconic rangers we grew up to love. From the complete list of Ranger Tricks to the new Feats and Archetypes, this is a book with enough options for anyone. Personally I found the Dual Style Ranger Archetype to be pretty awesome if you're into focusing on 2 different combat styles at the cost of only having 1 favored enemy. So all in all, if you are a ranger fan like I am or have always wanted to play the "classic" ranger then pick up this book...you will not be disappointed =D

4/5 —

Weighing in at 15 pages (Front cover -1 page, credit/PID – 1 page, 2 pages of tracking sheets, OGL) we’ve got roughly 10 pages of new material here to work with.

A spell-less Ranger…this class has long been plagued by the fact that whereas any class tossing spells about is kinda cool in its own right, the iconic characters who inspired this particular class were men existing by their own skill, and their ability to utilize the lands around them to some amazing feats. I’ve seen a few attempts to go spell-less with a ranger in the past, and it has always come out looking very much like a pigeon-holed fighter…so let us take a look and see if Mr. Radle has found the balance required to ground the ranger back in the land of the everyman, without taking away all that made this class one that people would want to play.

Interestingly enough, once again I find myself going through a Marc Radle design, missing his artwork, lol. Luckily the artists tapped for this piece were more than up to it, and the PDF comes off with a very good look and feel to it visually speaking. Now, having said that, I do have a complaint regarding artwork…the background image, as it is, makes it very hard to read the text in the corners of the pages from time to time. Perhaps a slight fade on the background image might have aided with that. Editing wise, I only found two mistakes, and they were essentially the same mistake, and an extremely minor one at that. An errant “s” was added in two different spots to a word, but truly did not alter enough of the meaning to disturb the reading of the text.

Right off the bat, taking away spells from the progression of this class, the spell-less ranger finds himself the beneficiary of a host of new class abilities, and Ranger Talents (similar in nature to Rogue Talents)…at 2nd level the decision must be made what path of combat you are looking to advance your character down with the Combat Style Feat. Now, the PDF opts for the up close and gritty two-weapon combat style or the archery combat style , but does leave it open for you to choose from any of the ranger combat styles available under your GM. The advantages behind this particular class ability is that the combat styles come with a pool of feats that you will be picking from as you progress that allow you to ignore prerequisites. Next up in the realm of cool has got to be Nature’s Healing, gained at 3rd level. Giving game mechanics to bring to the table the fact that a ranger, in their favored terrain, knows which root, which mushroom, snail, leaf or mud is going to allow them to gain the absolute best results out of their Heal skill checks. Therefore, this ability grants bonuses to heal checks, in various differing manners. Hunter’s Bond is another of those choice situations, this time with the options of sharing a percentage of your favored enemy bonuses with allies, or picking up an animal companion (trust me, looking through all the different options here, you want the animal companion). Now, I did think there were a few animals that would have been obvious choices for the list of animal companion options, but that would be a personal choice issue. It would be wrong of me to not mention the Stealth Attack class ability, as any ranger worth his salt had better be able to attack unseen within their own terrain.

The Ranger Talents, 25 of them, are an interesting alternative to a spell progression for a ranger class, and offer everything from extra feats, to additional animal companions. Faster movement, farther range, and critical hit modifiers. There is enough here to allow for several different styles of play to evolve in comfort never feeling limited by choice.

Following this we are given 18 new Feats, covering everything from Additional Favored Enemies or Terrain, Extra Ranger Talents, an Expert or Master option for Favored Terrain granting additional bonuses on top of the normal ones already given by Favored Terrain. Coordinated Companion allows your animal companion to benefit from teamwork feats you possess as if they also had them. And Savage Terrain Warrior (my personal favorite of this batch) gives what every ranger needs…HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE!! For the animal companions, on top of the coordinated companion feat, we also get an Improved, Greater and Invulnerable – adding a DR to yer critter companion.

We are presented with two archetypes here that are both limited in their way, but in taking the limitation are both extremely more powerful within their parameters.
The Dual Style Ranger gives up multiple favored enemies in favor of learning a second combat style, and applying all further advancements that would normally give a new favored enemy back into the single enemy.
The Companion Bound Ranger gives up multiple favored terrain for a singular concept, but forms a bond with their animal that hearkens back to the classic ranger/animal duos of literary history.

The APG’s list of ranger combat styles is re-presented here in appendix form for ease of character build, in case one wishes to choose a style outside of the two presented here as options.
Following the appendix are two tracking sheets for ease of handling favored enemy/terrain and animal companions. They remind me greatly of sheets I remember using during the 3.0 days, and have that feel to me.

So, final thoughts…did this PDF present a ranger sans magic that is worth playing? That is what it comes down to, right? The answer to that is resting on my printer, in the form of an NPC I will be introducing tomorrow evening at my regular game night. This class is not only playable, its exciting and intriguing. For a player like myself, there are a massive amount of options presented to really explore the concept of an animal companion. Or go the complete other direction, and create that whisper in the trees, who’s only detected when his arrow is in your throat. Now, flipping to the other side, the background on the pages make some pages hard to read, and I would have preferred to have seen the background done with a lighter hand perhaps, but that is truly the only design/layout choice I can see worth complaining about or even pinging against the rating. Yes, I know I stated that the letter S shows up twice for no reason, but again, it does not change the meaning of the text it is within, nor does it make it any harder to understand. So, final tally…this is going to be one of those I want to give a 5 to, as the design is excellent, but layout is going to hold it back, and am finalizing with a 4.5. For those sites where I must go 4 or 5, I’ll have to round down to a 4.

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Liberty's Edge

Nice review over at the examiner.com ... you can check it out HERE
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Seldriss wrote:
Will this book come also in printed format or only in PDF?
Seldriss, this is a PDF-only release. At 15 pages, it just doesn't work in print.

Thank you.

Then on my way to order & download :)
Grand Lodge
Marc Radle wrote:
Andrew Betts wrote:
A couple small things I noticed. One is that it references a table for favored enemy and it says it is "below" but since I didn't see a table I'm assuming it actually should have referenced the PFCRB. Also, it might just be me, but in the PDF readers I use on my tablet the last page of the class (the one with the picture and the 20th level ability) is messed up with the picture showing up clear on top and everything else kind of grey out and difficult to read.

The Favored Enemies and Favored Terrains are both listed on page 7. However, since that seems to also be the page you indicate is giving you a display problem, I suspect you might not be able to see the list.

What table (and what PDF reader) are you using? It sounds like it might be an issue with the PDF reader? Maybe download the PDF again?

That did it. I think my file was corrupted when extracted. It's all working well now.

Liberty's Edge
Andrew Betts wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Andrew Betts wrote:
A couple small things I noticed. One is that it references a table for favored enemy and it says it is "below" but since I didn't see a table I'm assuming it actually should have referenced the PFCRB. Also, it might just be me, but in the PDF readers I use on my tablet the last page of the class (the one with the picture and the 20th level ability) is messed up with the picture showing up clear on top and everything else kind of grey out and difficult to read.

The Favored Enemies and Favored Terrains are both listed on page 7. However, since that seems to also be the page you indicate is giving you a display problem, I suspect you might not be able to see the list.

What table (and what PDF reader) are you using? It sounds like it might be an issue with the PDF reader? Maybe download the PDF again?

That did it. I think my file was corrupted when extracted. It's all working well now.

Awesome!

Just purchased the PDF and am reading through it slowly. I went through the anxiety of trying to keep up with 3.5's explosion of Wotc and 3PP and found out I couldn't do it. So I am taking care in what 3PP I buy now. I have decided I like Open Design and anything Wolfgang signs his name to. There are a couple of others that I follow, but I like this one just fine.
silverhair2008 wrote:
Just purchased the PDF and am reading through it slowly. I went through the anxiety of trying to keep up with 3.5's explosion of Wotc and 3PP and found out I couldn't do it. So I am taking care in what 3PP I buy now. I have decided I like Open Design and anything Wolfgang signs his name to. There are a couple of others that I follow, but I like this one just fine.

Welcome to the fold!

My Wednesday game is fixing to take a walk through portions of the Old Margreve. It is entirely possible they will meet some of the Creature-A-Day monsters on their trip through, as they are in Iobaria.
Liberty's Edge
silverhair2008 wrote:
Just purchased the PDF and am reading through it slowly. I went through the anxiety of trying to keep up with 3.5's explosion of Wotc and 3PP and found out I couldn't do it. So I am taking care in what 3PP I buy now. I have decided I like Open Design and anything Wolfgang signs his name to. There are a couple of others that I follow, but I like this one just fine.

Excellent! Glad you like it :)

I'm absolutely thrilled and, quite honestly humbled, by the response the Expanded Spell-less Ranger has received :)
Dark Archive
silverhair2008 wrote:
Just purchased the PDF and am reading through it slowly. I went through the anxiety of trying to keep up with 3.5's explosion of Wotc and 3PP and found out I couldn't do it. So I am taking care in what 3PP I buy now. I have decided I like Open Design and anything Wolfgang signs his name to. There are a couple of others that I follow, but I like this one just fine.

For some time now, Open Design stuff is accepted at my table automatically. This is the only publisher except Paizo itself to be accepted like that, not only by me, but by my players as well.

Ditto. Upon receiving my second issue of Kobold Quarterly I told my group that anything that comes out of that magazine is fair game. I've bought a handful of other products, too, and none of them have disappointed. Top notch stuff as always.

I want to say, too, that I feel like this version of the Ranger should be the default. It feels much more unique and - what's the word? - gritty doesn't sound right, but it keeps coming to mind. It's just awesome is what it is.
The Exchange Kobold Press

Nightflier and Foghammer, thank you for those kinds words! We'll keep pushing to make every release great.
Liberty's Edge
Foghammer wrote:
I want to say, too, that I feel like this version of the Ranger should be the default. It feels much more unique and - what's the word? - gritty doesn't sound right, but it keeps coming to mind. It's just awesome is what it is.

You, my friend, have excellent taste! ;) Now, to convince Paizo ...

In all seriousness, thanks so much! Really glad you like it!
Liberty's Edge

The Tower of the Lonely GM had some nice things to say about the Expanded Spell-less Ranger (and Tales of Midgard too!)
Liberty's Edge

Woo hoo!

Expanded Spell-less Ranger #2 on Paizo's Top Ten Downloads from Other Companies List!

That's awesome :) Thanks so much to everyone who has downloaded this so far!

(It's also currently #24 over on RPGNow's Top 100 :)
The Exchange Kobold Press

If there's ever a second-edition Pathfinder RPG (many years from now!), I sincerely hope they do consider a spell-less ranger or similar Woodland Strider sort of class.

Now that I think on it, Strider would have been a much shorter and perhaps better name for it. Hindsight, bah.

Yea, I was wondering why the name wasn't Strider :)
Marc Radle wrote:

Woo hoo!

Expanded Spell-less Ranger #2 on Paizo's Top Ten Downloads from Other Companies List!

That's awesome :) Thanks so much to everyone who has downloaded this so far!

(It's also currently #24 over on RPGNow's Top 100 :)

isnt it #1?

Well earned on the ranking. I have been playing one for almost a year now, I really enjoy the flavor of the spell less ranger, and REALLY enjoy all of the new goodies in the expanded version.
Liberty's Edge

New review by tenletter for your reading pleasure :)

I'm finally getting to play (rather than DMing), and my first reaction was "I want to play that spell-less ranger!" Looking more closely at my options now, I wonder about the archetypes and how they interact. It seems that they stack (at the cost of all but one favored enemy and one favored terrain), and make the ranger even more front-loaded than normal. Was this combination play-tested and did it seem to upset the balance of the game at all at those levels? Getting a full progression animal companion a level early and an additional feat at 2nd level for virtually no immediate cost sound like a no-brainer trade at 3rd level.

I understand that at higher levels you're giving up a vast amount of versatility, blah blah blah...[/ramble] Just curious.

I just noticed that you can't take the additional companion feat with the companion bound archetype. That's only a bit disappointing, but I can totally understand why it's that way; my inner munchkin, however small, was just squished a bit more. ;)
Grand Lodge
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Wolfgang Baur wrote:

If there's ever a second-edition Pathfinder RPG (many years from now!), I sincerely hope they do consider a spell-less ranger or similar Woodland Strider sort of class.

Now that I think on it, Strider would have been a much shorter and perhaps better name for it. Hindsight, bah.

Putting this in my Herolab to do file... totally naming it Strider...

More than worth the download price. Aside from Paizo itself I find the best material in Open Design products. Excellent work Mr. Raddle!
Liberty's Edge
R_Chance wrote:
More than worth the download price. Aside from Paizo itself I find the best material in Open Design products. Excellent work Mr. Raddle!

Thank you sir!

That really means a lot!!!
Grand Lodge

Oh fine, I guess I'll pay up. :P
Liberty's Edge
Foghammer wrote:

I'm finally getting to play (rather than DMing), and my first reaction was "I want to play that spell-less ranger!" Looking more closely at my options now, I wonder about the archetypes and how they interact. It seems that they stack (at the cost of all but one favored enemy and one favored terrain), and make the ranger even more front-loaded than normal. Was this combination play-tested and did it seem to upset the balance of the game at all at those levels? Getting a full progression animal companion a level early and an additional feat at 2nd level for virtually no immediate cost sound like a no-brainer trade at 3rd level.

I understand that at higher levels you're giving up a vast amount of versatility, blah blah blah...[/ramble] Just curious.

I just noticed that you can't take the additional companion feat with the companion bound archetype. That's only a bit disappointing, but I can totally understand why it's that way; my inner munchkin, however small, was just squished a bit more. ;)

If you do play one, I'd love to hear some reports!

The two archetypes do indeed stack (since neither replaces the same class feature/ability). I know some DMs frown on letting players use more than one archetype, but as long as your DM is OK with it, the Dual-Style and the Companion-Bound archetypes would indeed make a cool, although very specialized spell-less ranger (or core ranger, since both archetypes work with the core ranger as well)

A spell-less ranger (or core ranger) using both of these archetypes was still very balanced in playtesting. Such a character could become VERY useful (and quite powerful) in a campaign that takes place completely in only one terrain type with only one primary enemy, such as in the City of the Spider Queen campaign hinted at
HERE :) so a DM should of course keep that in mind.

Sorry to squish your inner munchkin :) A Companion Bound ranger is all about spending long hours learning about and training with a single animal compainion so that the ranger and animal companion learn to work amazingly well together ... additional companions just don't fit into that mindset.

Really glad you are digging the spell-less ranger!!!
Marc Radle wrote:

A spell-less ranger (or core ranger) using both of these archetypes was still very balanced in playtesting. Such a character could become VERY useful (and quite powerful) in a campaign that takes place completely in only one terrain type with only one primary enemy, such as in the City of the Spider Queen campaign hinted at

HERE :) so a DM should of course keep that in mind.

What about Kingmaker...? :D

Liberty's Edge

Expanded Spell-less Ranger reviewd over at Game Knight Reviews
Liberty's Edge
Foghammer wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:

A spell-less ranger (or core ranger) using both of these archetypes was still very balanced in playtesting. Such a character could become VERY useful (and quite powerful) in a campaign that takes place completely in only one terrain type with only one primary enemy, such as in the City of the Spider Queen campaign hinted at

HERE :) so a DM should of course keep that in mind.
What about Kingmaker...? :D

Sure! A spell-less ranger using both archetypes would be great in Kingmaker!!! :)

(sorry, I missed this from the other day :)
The Exchange Kobold Press

Hey Marc, what do you think about renaming this class the Strider?
Liberty's Edge
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Hey Marc, what do you think about renaming this class the Strider?

Um ....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I really like that the name says in no uncertain terms what the class is. It's the spell-less ranger. Strider sounds cool enough, but it doesn't really say anything.

Kind of like an anti-paladin is the evil twin to the paladin.

For me, this class will always be the spell-less ranger and, personally, I would hate to see it get a new name.

Having said that, you are the Great Kobold-in-Chief and I but your humble servant ... I'll defer to whatever you decide.

(did I mention how much I'd hate to see the name changed? :)

I'd just call it the Ranger, and call the other one Ranger With Spells.
The Exchange Kobold Press
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Marc, I'm not sure how you feel about it. ;)

Why in the world would you want to change the name of this class? The name is perfect, it's a straight forward, no confusion name. Calling the Spell-Less Ranger anything else would be deferring to the idea that the class is not in fact a Ranger, but something else, something similar to a Ranger, but at the end of the day, not. Given that we finally have a Ranger that is more than a Merlin in Green Tights, why, pray tell why would you consider changing the name of the class?

A friend of mine took this class for a test drive during our bi-weekly game the other night, making a dwarven spell-less ranger with his favored terrain options putting him at underground and urban....instantly fell in love with the immense amount of combat options and versatility. Has never, I repeat never, had any interest in the 20+ years I have known him in playing a Ranger due to the ridiculous addition of spells to them. So to see him not only play, but seriously embrace the class (he called me on his way home to discuss plans for the character, then called after work the next day to go over some more thoughts), that beyond anything was proof to me that I was right in the review I gave this product.

And my opinion regarding the name? I wasn't shopping the class to my playgroup, they had characters. He was updating his current character in my Hero Lab and saw the name in the list for classes. Had it been Strider or something short and boring, I doubt he would have even asked, as I have lots of classes already added to that list with variable names that say nothing of what the class is by name alone.
Dark Archive

Hmmm... good point on the name not defining the class. I guess as far as self-advertising Spell-less Ranger does indeed work best on an out of character level.

In character I'm calling it the "Strider at Night" at my table. Dark Rangers that eschew the magic of their god in exchange for a focus on martial might and the ability to blend into nature. Less fighter-druid and more fighter-rogue with a nature twist.

I know, I know, multi-word base classes is a no-no, but damn it just sounds good and really fits this class to me.

@KTFish7 - Did I read that right and you've managed to enter this into Hero Lab? Any intention to share? I'd love to save myself some coding on this one.
The Exchange Kobold Press

KTFish7, if you have finished the Hero Lab files, please send them my way. I'll make sure that everyone who buys the PDF gets a copy of the data files as well.
Dark Archive
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"Strider" only really means something to old school fans who've read Tolkein long before the movies came out. Now to those gamers it has a strong, instantly evocative meaning, but to anyone who started after 2e, it's unclear. For what it's worth, I'm in the "Strider" camp.

That, or we could just call it the Order of Aragorn.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

To me Ranger and Strider evoke very similar concepts... it probably helps that I was introduced to D&D fairly young and before I read Tolkien. Ranger, someone who ranges, strider, someone who strides. Both make me think of someone who skilled at traversing and interacting with the land. Now I always thought it was silly that all rangers had magic. I would prefer a spell-less ranger as the base with a spell dabbling ranger as a common option.
Matthew Winn wrote:


Did I read that right and you've managed to enter this into Hero Lab? Any intention to share? I'd love to save myself some coding on this one.
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
KTFish7, if you have finished the Hero Lab files, please send them my way. I'll make sure that everyone who buys the PDF gets a copy of the data files as well.

I am in fact still working out a few issues with some feats, but the files are almost complete, and yes, I will be sending them over as soon as they are.

Hopefully by the end of the weekend at most.
Dark Archive

In my game, we are calling it the Wildlander. One player pointed out that there are Urban Rangers as well, so that the Wildlander is not appropriate name for the class, but I replied that there is a term "urban jungle". So, my vote is for Wildlander or something similar. The class should really have one word for the name, or two at most (like White Necro).

I kind of like the Stridor
Liberty's Edge
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KTFish7 wrote:

Why in the world would you want to change the name of this class? The name is perfect, it's a straight forward, no confusion name. Calling the Spell-Less Ranger anything else would be deferring to the idea that the class is not in fact a Ranger, but something else, something similar to a Ranger, but at the end of the day, not. Given that we finally have a Ranger that is more than a Merlin in Green Tights, why, pray tell why would you consider changing the name of the class?

A friend of mine took this class for a test drive during our bi-weekly game the other night, making a dwarven spell-less ranger with his favored terrain options putting him at underground and urban....instantly fell in love with the immense amount of combat options and versatility. Has never, I repeat never, had any interest in the 20+ years I have known him in playing a Ranger due to the ridiculous addition of spells to them. So to see him not only play, but seriously embrace the class (he called me on his way home to discuss plans for the character, then called after work the next day to go over some more thoughts), that beyond anything was proof to me that I was right in the review I gave this product.

And my opinion regarding the name? I wasn't shopping the class to my playgroup, they had characters. He was updating his current character in my Hero Lab and saw the name in the list for classes. Had it been Strider or something short and boring, I doubt he would have even asked, as I have lots of classes already added to that list with variable names that say nothing of what the class is by name alone.

Could not have said it better! Strider is not a bad name, but it doesn't really SAY much unless you happen to know Lord of the Rings (and really, maybe not even then).

Spell-less Ranger says exactly what the class is, pure and simple, and it evokes exactly what the class is all about.

If I might pull the discussion away from such nonsense and malarkey for a moment ... ;)

It looks like the Expanded Spell-less Ranger was the second most downloaded non-Paizo PDF for the second week in a row - thanks everyone!!!!!!
Contributor

We've just opened a poll on the naming. Check your Kobold Courier for links. If you are not signed up to receive the Courier, what's wrong with you? :) It's free, and you can do so from the Kobold Quarterly site.
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I agree that strider might not be the best name, but spell-less ranger is more a description rather than a name. The magus isn't called the 'fighter that uses spells'. Although at the same time, it is Marc's baby so I'd feel weird voting against the name. This is tough.
Dark Archive
Cheapy wrote:
I agree that strider might not be the best name, but spell-less ranger is more a description rather than a name. The magus isn't called the 'fighter that uses spells'. Although at the same time, it is Marc's baby so I'd feel weird voting against the name. This is tough.

Yeah... I feel kinda bad... I'm not trying to be mean...

But I think those arguing against Strider are under a misconception, and that is that it's intrinsically tied to Lord of the Rings, and that anyone who hasn't read the books won't make the connection to the name.

But as a previous post pointed out, how is "one who strides" any different than "one who ranges"? In english definition it would seem to me that Strider and Ranger are fairly interchangeable.

Or in other words, a Strider is almost a Ranger, but slightly different. In fact, if you want a one word base class name that is flavor instead of description, I really do think this is the best alternate option, even without and completely ignoring any Tolkien parallels.

Ok, I'm done derailing this thread and making Marc feel bad. I've given far more than my 2 cents.

Marc, you did an awesome thing that we're very excited about and eager to discuss.

Thank you!!!!

I think it is fine as is. I wouldn't have looked twice at a class called "Strider" and I am very familiar with LOTR, but "spell-less" got my attention as soon as I first heard about it and lucky for me it came out exactly at the time I was waffling in playing a ranger vs a fighter.

Also, this is just speculation but it might be easier to for a GM to simply say "yeah you can play that" vs "I don't know, let me think about it" simply because it 'sounds more core.'

Design question: The spell-less ranger gains an animal companion through Hunter's Bond at full levels, not level -3. Okay. But why no corresponding boost to the alternate Hunter's Bond option companion boost?
Liberty's Edge
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Matthew Winn wrote:

Marc, you did an awesome thing that we're very excited about and eager to discuss.

Thank you!!!!

Thank you sir! :)

Liberty's Edge
IronDesk wrote:
Design question: The spell-less ranger gains an animal companion through Hunter's Bond at full levels, not level -3. Okay. But why no corresponding boost to the alternate Hunter's Bond option companion boost?

Interesting question!

The spell-less ranger does indeed get his animal companion (if he chooses an animal companion via his Hunter's Bond class feature) at his full level.

This was done only because druids getting a more powerful animal companion than rangers in the core rules has rubbed me the wrong way for a long time and I saw the spell-less ranger as my chance to 'right that wrong' so to speak.

I don't think there is any corresponding need to right any similar wrong in the other Hunter's Bond option, so there was no need for a corresponding boost.

So, what's next? :)

Spell-less paladin?

An update to Ryan Costello Jr's spell-less druid shifter?

offers the kobolds shiny things
Shadow Lodge
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
KTFish7, if you have finished the Hero Lab files, please send them my way. I'll make sure that everyone who buys the PDF gets a copy of the data files as well.

My son is 12 and I bought this PDF to be his first P&P character (he wanted ranger and I did not want him to have to deal with spells and combat as he is learning to play).

I have spent days in Hero lab trying to get a specific ranger trick to work. If that Hero Lab file is finished, I would be eternally grateful to see it as well.
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