Glad to see this come to fruition.
So am I. This has been a real labor of love.
Can't wait to play it! I'll post my comments in a few weeks (months?) after I've play tested it.
I will be giving this a read when I get off work, love the Iconic she would make a good desktop wallpaper :)
I know at least on player of mine wanting to play a Gnomish Scientist and this class is just what I need for him.
Question: is there a reason why the drone master was omitted as an archetype?
Question: is there a reason why the drone master was omitted as an archetype?
We went back and forth on what archetype we want to see in this release and what we wanted to save for our future NeoExodus product release and we decided on the Bombardier and Technologist being the best for this release.
Question: is there a reason why the drone master was omitted as an archetype?
We went back and forth on what archetype we want to see in this release and what we wanted to save for our future NeoExodus product releases. We decided on the Bombardier and Technologist being the best for this release.
Still reading through them, will give a review when I'm done so far I like what I see.
Still reading through them, will give a review when I'm done so far I like what I see.
We like to hear that!
Is this going to get another pass at editing?
Is this going to get another pass at editing?
After the review we received, I think we will sending it out to be re-edited.
That's good news. The Bombardier is missing a section of information and is essentially unusable as presented. Additionally, the balancing feels rather off on some abilities.
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If I were to try this class out, could it integrate well in a non-neo exodus world? Any thoughts? I am intrigued by the product idea, I just thought I would check with someone who has looked the product over and thought if it could fit well in a regular campaign setting with a decent level of technology.
Per se, the world-specific fluff is at abare minimum. You should encounter enxt to no problems. Hope that helps!
If I were to try this class out, could it integrate well in a non-neo exodus world? Any thoughts? I am intrigued by the product idea, I just thought I would check with someone who has looked the product over and thought if it could fit well in a regular campaign setting with a decent level of technology.
We made it that it will fit well in any steampunk influenced campaign world. It really is a "generic" base class, just like the other base classes.
Not yet. The editor is working on a LARGE project for us right now. But no matter when or where you purchase it, when we update it you automatically get a update sent to you for free.
Reviewed here, on DTRPG and sent to GMS magazine. Will update my review as soon as the pdf is updated. Cheers!
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after i purchased this, i noticed that it is not clearly spelled out in the text whether a machinesmith can use their abilities in armor without spell failure, like the alchemist. also, i feel that mobius armor is an obvious ability that was left out and would have been much funner to include rather than the analyzer.
overall, looking so much funner that other choices as i am a major mad scientist fan.
End- What was the text that was left out of The Bombardier. I'd like to build one and want to know what was left out...
I'm currently not at home and don't have access to my notes, but I seem to recall that the end of the bomb paragraph was cut short, thus lacking some crucial information. But that's from memory. For a definite answer, you'll have to wait until next week, sorry. Hope that helpes! And Pendothrax: I agree - an armor would have been more fun. Or an analyzer that truly lets you analyze foes and exploit weaknesses, grants bonuses to allies by analyzing terrain etc. - lots of potential there...
Well I have a bad news / good news announcement. The bad news is that our normal editor is on medical leave due to so serious issues and will not be able to work on editing this project. We hope that everything is OK in the long run. But the GOOD NEWS is that we have found an freelance editor to fill that position and help us update this class. The new editor is Jeff Erwin who is also the writer for upcoming Paizo Campaign Setting book, Lost Kingdoms. So expect to see an updated, full edited and slightly changed version of the class coming soon.
^ Thanks, looking forward to it.
@Jeff: I mentioned some of the major gripes in my review. Apaprt from these, there are some typos etc.
Take a look at the post i made in the other thread on this same topic. Basically I suggested, because the analyzer is relatively weak combat wise, that you give the analyzer a "steal" ability associated with any spell cast at the metalsmith, where the analyzer can attempt to copy the "data" associated with an arcane spell, from which the metalsmith can then attempt to discipher the info at a later time to try and form a blueprint. It doesn't stray from the analyzer's main function as a knowledge and skill based theme, but it gives the analyzer a unique edge in combat, essentially allowing its user to potentially learn spells they would never otherwise learn/have to pay a lot of money to learn.
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Thanks, Endzeitgeist (your review is very complete and helpful) and dbass for your idea- I'm busy fixing the typos and clumsy wording currently. I'll have to ponder your idea, dbass, once that phase of editing is done, & I'll assuredly discuss it with Louis at that point.
Personally, I'm wondering whether such a mechanism might replace taking spells from spellbooks or scrolls, since the notion of converting arcane magic into engineering prototypes easily is kind of odd to me. The mechanic is borrowed from the Alchemist class, however, and may have to stand to give the Machinesmith a chance to gain spells when using non-NeoExodus materials.
The main objective I have is clarifying things so the class is - as intended- balanced, clearly written, and interesting.
Maybe being able to get new spells should be a function of the analyzer ;)
Take a look at the post i made in the other thread on this same topic. Basically I suggested, because the analyzer is relatively weak combat wise, that you give the analyzer a "steal" ability associated with any spell cast at the metalsmith, where the analyzer can attempt to copy the "data" associated with an arcane spell, from which the metalsmith can then attempt to discipher the info at a later time to try and form a blueprint. It doesn't stray from the analyzer's main function as a knowledge and skill based theme, but it gives the analyzer a unique edge in combat, essentially allowing its user to potentially learn spells they would never otherwise learn/have to pay a lot of money to learn.
This got me thinking maybe for a full round action per spell level for X times a day the analyzer can steal or copy a spell in the arcane spellcasters and create a datafax AKA "scroll". This datafax that must be used in X amount of rounds or the datafax and its spell is rendered useless. The spell works as normal with the CL basted off of the Machinesmiths level. Just a thought.
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Per se a good idea, but duplicating other spells has to be handled VERY carefully. The rules will be rather complex and utmost care has to be taken to avoid abuse...
Kind of out of the blue, but I like the idea of differing greatworks for the nonadventuring machinesmiths in the campaign world as a way to add some flavor. Something like the core being a power box that a machinesmith could tie various gadget tricks or upgrades to in the form of "drill press" or "lathe" and with a final upgrade (20th level) that would change it into something like a cnc machine. :P
Cool for background, IMO, but not playable as the main part of a PC's ability.
Per se a good idea, but duplicating other spells has to be handled VERY carefully. The rules will be rather complex and utmost care has to be taken to avoid abuse...
Agreed. So then the real problem is, how easily/often do you allow the analyzer to "steal" a spell? Once a day? Once a week? Do you require the machinesmith to be readied, as in a counterspell, in order for his analyzer to make the attempt? And how easy is it for the machinesmith to actually interpret the data that spits out of her analyzer (ie how often is the machinesmith actually successful in stealing the spell)? Does having a high spellcraft or knowledge arcana increase your chance of succeeding? I would imagine so...but yah...lots to think about.
Sorry Jeff. I think I just put you in a tough spot.
Well good news, we got back the first round of edits from the nw editor and we will be reviewing them. So it looks like we may have a new updated by sometime next week.
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Per se a good idea, but duplicating other spells has to be handled VERY carefully. The rules will be rather complex and utmost care has to be taken to avoid abuse...Agreed. So then the real problem is, how easily/often do you allow the analyzer to "steal" a spell? Once a day? Once a week? Do you require the machinesmith to be readied, as in a counterspell, in order for his analyzer to make the attempt? And how easy is it for the machinesmith to actually interpret the data that spits out of her analyzer (ie how often is the machinesmith actually successful in stealing the spell)? Does having a high spellcraft or knowledge arcana increase your chance of succeeding? I would imagine so...but yah...lots to think about.
Sorry Jeff. I think I just put you in a tough spot.
Thanks... well, interesting gaming mechanics are challenging, but there's a certain joy in figuring them out - in this case, an exceptionally difficult Spellcraft roll would make sense. But any change of that magnitude will wait until I hear from Louis.
Well to keep you updated with this whole project, Jeff just turned over the 1st draft of all the material and I like what I have seen. I just sent it over to the creative director, JP, to get his feedback. I asked this in Facebook so I wanted to ask it here: Should we expand the Machinesmith from a Base Class with two archetypes to a Base Class with four archetypes and a Prestige Class? Let us know what you think?
More stuff I'm sold!
The real debate isn't just adding new stuff, it is what are we going to place in our upcoming Quartermater Handbook? While of course getting more is better, many of the archetypes that we left out have been specially built to use in the NeoExodus: A House Divided setting, so including them in this update may not be the best choice. But at least at a minimum I can say the changes and updates to the already release material will make this class better for game play. I guess we will have to wait and see.
Well I can't say I'm exactly opposed to more material...
Another random thought: ovbiously the machinesmiths ability to use a dispel magic on a whim is extremely useful. What if you made a archetype that further expanded upon that principle? More specifically, what if you created an archetype who frankly SUCKED against melee-based classes, but DOMINATED against magicians of the same level?
Sure would make for an interesting party...especially in a high fantasy setting...
Is there any chance that there is the ability once you have the gunsmithing feat orsomething simular, that you could upgrade the crossbowturret gadget trick to use a firearm instead?
No I am sorry this does not. We didn't what to make machine gun turrets. That would really does move it out of "fantasy" then, at least to us.
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Is there any chance that there is the ability once you have the gunsmithing feat orsomething simular, that you could upgrade the crossbowturret gadget trick to use a firearm instead?
Well, work is nearly wrapped up on the machinesmith - but I'll take a moment to consider how such an ability might be done.
Note that a firearm is a better weapon than a crossbow by a fair margin, mainly due to its touch attack. The revolver - an advanced firearm - is the closest to an automatic crossbow. The machinesmith using a gun turret would need firearms expertise with proficiency in a revolver (plus a physical weapon to alter). I'd say the machinesmith would need that plus the crossbow turrent trick & then take gun turret as a trick with a minimum of being 8th level. It would have a magazine of 6 bullets, but perhaps one could argue for a larger magazine (12) at a higher level trick - 12th level. This is just off the top of my head... if anyone sees a major problem.
Well we just uploaded the updated file to RPGNow and here at Paizo, so I expect to see the file updated sometime by tomorrow. I think this one is more to people's liking.
Arcane Analyzer. Very nice. Good job Jeff. It seems to be just about right.
For clarification, the arcane analyzer does not "dispel" the stolen spell. It simply copies, in the form of "data" the spell that was cast towards the machinesmith, from which the machinesmith has 24 hours to try and make a blueprint that can only be used once. Yes?
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Arcane Analyzer. Very nice. Good job Jeff. It seems to be just about right.
For clarification, the arcane analyzer does not "dispel" the stolen spell. It simply copies, in the form of "data" the spell that was cast towards the machinesmith, from which the machinesmith has 24 hours to try and make a blueprint that can only be used once. Yes?
Well, not exactly. The Spellcraft roll is made at the moment the Machinesmith uses his Axiom class feature, and then the captured spell remains latent in the analyzer for up to 24 hours. What you're suggesting - which would make a blueprint (essentially a scroll) - that would require a Scribe Scroll feat. Technically, you could argue that the stored spell counts as a prepared spell for purposes of scroll creation, however (see Core, p.552). The CL, cost, etc, would be determined by the original caster's abilities. This may be a little cheezable, however. Currently, with a DC of 25+spell level the Spellcraft check is going to be fairly difficult at lower levels, but theoretically, a high level (say 10th) machinesmith with skill focus and maxed ranks and a 20 Int could easily have a +21 on their roll. At that point, they could steal spells left and right. The trick - since the analyzer can hold only one at a time, is to make the right choice. The fact that making a scroll/blueprint takes 24 hours means you'd have to get to work and be uninterrupted, however, immediately after stealing the spell. Perhaps it could work out - there aren't likely to be many opportunities for getting the scroll written unless the GM is asleep at the wheel or wants to allow it.
Just finished reading the whole thing. Love the changes. Easier to understand. The bonus archetypes and prestige class are a huge plus. The changes to the technologist are very nice...much more in line with what I was wishing for in an archetype that was built around anti-magic. The combat engineer is excellent as well--should appeal greatly to a player or DM who wants to draw out the combat aspect of the machinesmith. On those same lines I see that the Bombadier has been edited to be useable now.
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the Arcanamechanist archetype and the Transmechanical ascendant. The former I am trying to understand his role in a party, the later...I just get the feeling that the Borg have crossed dimensions from Star Trek into Pathfinder...
In short: much improved. I didn't know just how flawed the old machinesmith was until I read through and compared the improvements. But I was very pleased before and now I'm just thrilled. Excellent work.