Crafting question regarding spell requirements

I've been reading quite a bit about the various requirements for Craft Wondrous Items and I understand the parts about taking 10, about adding +5 to the DC of the Spellcraft check, etc.

What I haven't seen with regards to requirements is the issue of spells. I'll use an easy example. Let's say I want to craft a Cloak of Resistance +1. Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, resistance, creator's caster level must be at least three times the cloak's bonus.

Okay, I have the feat. My level is 3x the bonus. Now, as a cleric, I can cast resistance, but, if I didn't pray for it that day, does that mean I either need to wait until the next day, pray for it, and then craft the cloak, or just add +5 to the DC?

Next, how would this working for items that are more costly and require many days...do I need to keep praying for the spells required each and every day?

I'm guessing that this gives clerics a major advantage over, say, sorcerers, in this regard who must pick spells and stick with them?

Thanks in advance for any clarity you can shed.

if I didn't pray for it that day, does that mean I either need to wait until the next day, pray for it, and then craft the cloak, or just add +5 to the DC?

do I need to keep praying for the spells required each and every day?

I'm guessing that this gives clerics a major advantage over, say, sorcerers, in this regard who must pick spells and stick with them?

It does, yes. Spontaneous casters make for poor crafters. But with a high enough Spellcraft skill it doesn't really matter.

Thank you! These boards are such a great resource. I don't mind digging around pfsrd20 and such, but some things you simply cannot find. Appreciate it.

I just need to keep pumping points into Spellcraft. I have Skill Focus. Maybe there is something else I can get down the road.

If you are often crafting items of similar types (more often for arms & armor than wondrous items), you can pump up an appropriate craft skill instead of Spellcraft. This would allow the use of Masterwork Artisan's tools (+2 circumstance), and the Crafter's Fortune spell (+5 luck), as well as various feats and traits that boost Craft spells.

you can pump up an appropriate craft skill instead of Spellcraft.

This is very good advice. Craft skill checks are much easier to boost than spellcraft checks are.

CraziFuzzy wrote:

you can pump up an appropriate craft skill instead of Spellcraft.

This is very good advice. Craft skill checks are much easier to boost than spellcraft checks are.

I am currently looking for ways to pump Craft(X). I know of MW Tool (+2 Circumstance), Crafter's Fortune (+5 Insight), and magic item of +N Competence for N*N*100 gp. What are the other ways?

/cevah

I am currently looking for ways to pump Craft(X). I know of MW Tool (+2 Circumstance), Crafter's Fortune (+5 Insight), and magic item of +N Competence for N*N*100 gp. What are the other ways?

• An item enhancing your Int
  
• Skill-improving feats (+3/+6 with Skill Focus, +2/+4 with Prodigy, +2 with Master Craftsman, EDIT: +5 upon completion of Magnum Opus)
  
• Traits (Inner Beauty gives +4 trait bonus)
  
• Other spells (Borrow Skill to gain ranks if you aren't maxed out, Heroism for a +2 morale bonus and +4 with the Greater version)
  
• Touch of Good domain power: gives a sacred bonus to skill checks
  
• The magic item "Amazing Tools of Manufacture" (12k) gives a +4 circumstance bonus
  
• Under some conditions, you can gain a higher insight bonus with the Pendant of Knowledge (~3k)
  
• Stone of Good Luck gives a +1 luck bonus
  
• The "Aid Another" action for an additional +2
  

...should be enough to reach whatever DC you aim to. And, if not, there's always the Fateful Touch domain power.

VRMH wrote:

CraziFuzzy wrote:

you can pump up an appropriate craft skill instead of Spellcraft.

This is very good advice. Craft skill checks are much easier to boost than spellcraft checks are.

I am currently looking for ways to pump Craft(X). I know of MW Tool (+2 Circumstance), Crafter's Fortune (+5 Insight), and magic item of +N Competence for N*N*100 gp. What are the other ways?

/cevah

There is the Prodigy feat. There is also the Magnum Opus feat. There's Skill Focus as well, but it can be used with Spellcraft, so not really good for comparison.

There are also traits that will boost either Spellcraft or Craft, depending on the flavor you want to go with (The most significant is Inner Beauty, which equates to a +4 to Craft checks 1/day, which is enough)

I also much prefer the Craft skills simply for two other reasons:

1.) Flavor - I just like the idea of toiling over the item to refine it and allow magic to infuse into it's perfection (How I see enchanting with Craft) over simply forcing the magic into a mundane object (How I see enchanting with Spellcraft).

2.) Making the mundane item - To enchant an item, you first have to HAVE the item. You cannot create an item from raw materials with Spellcraft, you can with Craft. Craft also allows some great progression for arms and armor, as your party can start out with mundane items at Level 1, and a weapon/armor smith in the party can start making masterwork items reliably at level 3, and then start enchanting those items at level 5.

Cevah wrote:

I am currently looking for ways to pump Craft(X). I know of MW Tool (+2 Circumstance), Crafter's Fortune (+5 Insight), and magic item of +N Competence for N*N*100 gp. What are the other ways?

• An item enhancing your Int -- Already have
  
• Skill-improving feats (+3/+6 with Skill Focus, +2/+4 with Prodigy, +2 with Master Craftsman, EDIT: +5 upon completion of Magnum Opus) -- No feat next level, so gotta wait
  
• Traits (Inner Beauty gives +4 trait bonus) -- Needs a feat to get
  
• Other spells (Borrow Skill to gain ranks if you aren't maxed out, Heroism for a +2 morale bonus and +4 with the Greater version) -- Borrow Skill: 1r/l, Heroism: 10m/l, Greater Heroism: 1m/l
  
• Touch of Good domain power: gives a sacred bonus to skill checks -- 1r
  
• The magic item "Amazing Tools of Manufacture" (12k) gives a +4 circumstance bonus -- Need to wield to get
  
• Under some conditions, you can gain a higher insight bonus with the Pendant of Knowledge (~3k) -- once per day +10
  
• Stone of Good Luck gives a +1 luck bonus -- Expensive
  
• The "Aid Another" action for an additional +2 -- Already planned
  

...should be enough to reach whatever DC you aim to. And, if not, there's always the Fateful Touch domain power.

I want to use a Lyre of Building and use the Craft(Ships). While I will soon level, it is not a feat gaining level. I have just enough skill points to pull it off, but not enough to bump the skill level.

Of the spells, Heroism is best due to the time. The Lyre uses one check per hour to extend its use. Most of the temp bonuses do not last long enough unless timed deliberately. I feel that would be too cheesy for me, even if technically legal. Heroism, can last several hours when cast several times by a high level caster (i.e. my cohort).

While the Stone of Good Luck is great, and not just for this, it eats too much gold for me to consider at this time.

While the Amazing Tools of Manufacture would also be great, I don't think I can use it while playing the Lyre.

Not being a divine caster, using a Pendant's bonus is not a simple option, as my character is not a significant worshiper.

/cevah

If you have acxcess to it, Seeker of Secrets includes flawed or cracked Ioun stones, and there are flawed ones, for 200 gp, that give a +1 competence bonus to a specific skill, or one for 800 gp that gives a +2 competence bonus that can be changed at dawn to a different skill each day.

So, Craft (x) while crafting, then Perception, say, while adventuring...

Louis IX wrote:

Cevah wrote:

I am currently looking for ways to pump Craft(X). I know of MW Tool (+2 Circumstance), Crafter's Fortune (+5 Insight), and magic item of +N Competence for N*N*100 gp. What are the other ways?

• An item enhancing your Int -- Already have
  
• Skill-improving feats (+3/+6 with Skill Focus, +2/+4 with Prodigy, +2 with Master Craftsman, EDIT: +5 upon completion of Magnum Opus) -- No feat next level, so gotta wait
  
• Traits (Inner Beauty gives +4 trait bonus) -- Needs a feat to get
  
• Other spells (Borrow Skill to gain ranks if you aren't maxed out, Heroism for a +2 morale bonus and +4 with the Greater version) -- Borrow Skill: 1r/l, Heroism: 10m/l, Greater Heroism: 1m/l
  
• Touch of Good domain power: gives a sacred bonus to skill checks -- 1r
  
• The magic item "Amazing Tools of Manufacture" (12k) gives a +4 circumstance bonus -- Need to wield to get
  
• Under some conditions, you can gain a higher insight bonus with the Pendant of Knowledge (~3k) -- once per day +10
  
• Stone of Good Luck gives a +1 luck bonus -- Expensive
  
• The "Aid Another" action for an additional +2 -- Already planned
  

...should be enough to reach whatever DC you aim to. And, if not, there's always the Fateful Touch domain power.

I want to use a Lyre of Building and use the Craft(Ships). While I will soon level, it is not a feat gaining level. I have just enough skill points to pull it off, but not enough to bump the skill level.

Of the spells, Heroism is best due to the time. The Lyre uses one check per hour to extend its use. Most of the temp bonuses do not last long enough unless timed deliberately. I feel that would be too cheesy for me, even if technically legal. Heroism, can last several hours when cast several times by a high level caster (i.e. my cohort).

While the Stone of Good Luck is great, and not just for this, it eats too much gold for me...

I'm not sure you can use the Lyre to build ships - and certainly there's no way to accurately determine its effects when doing so. The Lyre essentially is a stand-in for a large force of laborers, but there's no rule on how fast a large group of laborers could build a ship. Also, the Lyre's check per hour is not a Craft check, it's a DC-18 Perform (string instruments) check.

GM gave the OK for the Lyre to build ships, but it needs a Perform Check to use, and a Craft check to determine what can be made. I expected as much. I did not expect to not be allowed to take-10 on the Craft(Ships) while rolling the Perform(Strings). Makes some things more difficult. Since I can't count on >1 on the check, I need buffs to make the minimum DC for the ships. Given the current setup, I can hit the DC for the simple ships, but would need to roll to hit the DC for the rest.

The Lyre is based off the Fabricate spell, which does call out a craft check for complex stuff.

/cevah

While the Lyre is enchanted with the Fabricate spell, that doesn't mean it functions as it. If your GM allows it to, that's all well and good, and these questions could really only be answered by him, as he's departed from any rules we could interpret. If the Lyre WAS allowed to create complex items via craft checks, it makes it WAY more powerful than it's price. The fabricate spells is limited by the size of the created item (10 ft³/level), which does put a natural limit on the items that can be poofed into existence. The Lyre, on the other hand, is focused completely differently. Instead of producing smaller complex items, it is geared towards great, but simple, works. Digging a moat, building a wall, tunneling a mine. Large, but decidedly NOT complex works.

An item more in line with what you are looking to do would be the Amazing Tools of Manufacture (shipbuilding).