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edit: feel free to post your own brawler build ideas

ive seen a lot of people talk about rules, but few talk about actually building something. brawler offers a interesting opportunity, given the nature of his martial flexibility lends him to building slightly different then some, tho you dont have to.

for this build lets assume that by the wording, you only have to spend your resources for martial flexibility once every ten rounds, but you can in those ten rounds, switch feats every round for free (or up to a move action technically)

there is some argument over whether this is accurate or not, and ive seen the argument for both sides.

that all said what do we need to make a brawler work at punching really well

power attack

pummeling style/dragon style.

now thats a lot of feats to start...potentially 7...tho we can cut out the third dragon style feat...thats 6. still a lot tho.

how about a 2 level dip in MOM? (i know what a surprise right?),
MOMS
1-power attack, pummeling style
2-pummeling charge
BRAWLER
1-dragon style
2-extra flexibility
3-dragon ferocity

so as soon as level 5 you can do a charge>pummel with dragon style/ferocity kicking in...and using your brawlers fury to get an extra attack so pummel at such a early level isnt a waist. now there may be a better way to go about the beginning "skeleton" for this build but this is a general basis. At level 4 you have 8 uses of flexibility instead of 5, if you go human you can spend another one on flexibility and get 11. or you can decide on some base feats so you can branch out further with flexibility into feat chains.

now with pummeling style, id be tempted to drop maneuver training for the shield archetype to have a ranged option. it replaces brawler strike (equivalent of ki strike) but pummeling style will let you blow thru DR anyways

beyond this im not sure and im going to need to comb thru the database of combat feats very closely.

also might be wise to get a few defensive feats like iron will since they have a crappy will save and no real way around it

TLDR; i HATE martial flexibility and even more so maneuver training, they are too limited in use or scope of usefulness and take away form what i imagine a brawler. in short i think they are crap. any archetype or way to remove them and replace them with something actually useful?

The bloodrager and brawler are the two classes i was most excited about. the bloodrager largely does what i hoped for. a strong frontline fighter with smattering of spells. bloodlines are just awesome gravy to me.

the brawler tho...i had such hopes. i love hte monk, but its 3/4 bab and conflicting mechanics and tons of fluff meant unless i was doing silly things that had a decent chance of failing, i was just trying to flurry of blows everything, wich required me not moving...(see the conflict?)

low and behold a FULL BAB UNARMED combatant with NO ALIGNTMENT RESTRICTION and able to use LIGHT ARMOR.

holy mother of jeebus yes!...but wait...lets look closer.

Brawlers cunning...really? you couldnt just give them combat expertise for free? this is simple to understand but is very much "beating around the bush" to force a feat tax. ok whatever, i rarely use anything that involves combat expertise anyways.

Martial flexibility...seems pretty awesome. find yourself in the dark/vs invisbile enemies? haha! blind fight <about the best thing i can imagine it for aside from wanting to get fancy and temporarily trying a combat maneuver of some kind. then i look at its uses...holy cripe. level 20 they get 13 uses, and each feat you pick takes up a use, and they only last one minute! this kills it outright for me. my playgroup does NOT adhere to the "15 min work day" idea. i would run out of these so fast its not funny.

quite simply a massive change is needed for this feature. make it cost nothing? make it only cost one point even if you learn more then one feat? its uses are so limiting if there is an option id archetype it out in a heartbeat.

maneuver training...i think i just threw up in my mouth a little seeing this. imo combat maneuver focus should NEVER EVER EVER EVER be baked into a base class. the very nature of combat maneuvers mechanically in pathfinder make them useless or narrowly incredibly powerful vs just hte right enemy. this makes me more upset then even martial flexibility. please tell me there is a way to archetype both this and flexibility out?

tell me if this is legit with a half giant.

i have a large sized lucerne hammer and a medium sized greatsword and i have the quick draw feat

could i use the lucerne hammer ...enemy approaches me, eats AoO to get within my 5 feet.

on my turn i switch my reach weapon to "carried" in one hand, and use quickdraw to draw my normal sized greatsword with one hand and full attack the guy.

i feel like im losing my mind, i DISTINCTLY remember reading in the ACG playtest that there was a way for the blood rager to cast one spell when they rage not taking up any actions (bunching it up with entering rage)

im looking back at it now, and i cannot find it.

someone help me out, does this exist?

i was going to go arcane bloodline and cast a bunch of spells on myself at beginning of a rage (from bloodlien and one spell slot)

so with me starting a tetori monk in pfs, i have to ask myself, whats really important to have starting out at level 1?

i ask because in the games we played in my homegroup, many factors of items brought were sometimes...looked over. it was usually just assumed you brought rations and really only came into play if we were going to be out in the wilderness for extended periods for example.

a friend told me that the agile weapon property can be used in PFS even by a player that only possesses the core assumption.

i cannot find this ruling anywhere, it would affect how i build my first PFS character (using agile maneuvers at level 1 then getting a agile weapn property at level 5 if i could afford it)

anyone have a really therough breakdown of what i can/cant do with grappling?

im making a tetori monk to take to a PFS game and id rather feel confident in my rules knowledge before i try to take him in.

just wondering what makes you look at a class and go "eww"

i have this happen with a few honestly.

Ranger-i hate that i HAVE to get boon companion if i want his animal to match a druids, and i really really hate favored enemy/terrain. its too hit or miss for me. you could theoretically go a entire characters lifespan without every getting advantage of either. I know people suggest "talk to your DM" but then it feels too gamey for me. Whats funny is in old dnd (pre pathfinder) i really liked rangers.

Magus-i dont dislike it as much as a ranger, and theoretically i should enjoy the class, a real mesh of martial and magic, arcane magic to boot! But i dont, something about the gish, something about the namby pamby dexterity based with INT focused martial/caster i dont like. Conversely Blood Rager in the ACG is right on the money for me, thats what i want from a martial/caster combination.

Paladin-same as most people, stuck with lawful good, i dont play lawful good. only good i play is chaotic. Ive tried to play lawful good characters, i hate it...and makes me hate my character.

Cleric-nothing expressly against them, i just find them boring, oracles are much more interesting to me

Rogue-id rather play a ninja...

Ninja-i played a ninja, perhaps i have a really bad mind for the 3/4 bab stealth/sneak attack playstyle, but i found it incredibly underwhelming even with invisibility

wizard-i tend to favor martials (i get more satisfaction for some reason) so thats one strike. second i just like the gish on sorcerers way more!

cavalier-i hate mounts...a lot. maybe a archetype..but then i just feel like a fighter with a different name.

gunslinger-dont hate, just dont want to ever play, i like my fantasy without guns.

looking back that is a larger list then i had anticipated! lets make it even longer, what classes do i really enjoy?

Monk-i love the little dude. ive spent more time theorizing, building, rebuilding different monks then anything,each one unique and tried something different. the class may be weak but there is a lot of unique builds to them i enjoy.

Barbarian-Conan, Kull, diablo games...ive always loved barbarians

alchemist-a few interesting builds, i like the gish to them, and oddly like the bomb/potion focus. id probably play this before a bard for support. yet oddly its one of the few classes i havent tried to play yet!

edit: how about some ACG comments?

[u]hate[/u]

Swashbuckler-same reason i dont like magus honestly, namby pamby

slayer-same reason i dont like rangers/rogues

skald-isnt there a bard archetype for this? with probalby more flexibility?

[u]like[/u]

bloodrager-this might become my next favorite class as it finally hits my sweet spot for martial/caster mashed together.

warpriest-more interesting then the cleric, less limiting then the paladin/inquisitor...might become my defactor divine warrior choice.

and the one class that i really want to just LOVE but it falls painfully short for me?

BRAWLER-it is literally what i want to do with gestalt (combine monk+fighter) but...wasting design space focusing on combat maneuvers (ugh cmon, put a archetype in for that dont muddle a class's base mechanics with it) and a incredibly limited and unimpressive class mechanic. i hate both of those features of the class so much id be tempted to play it and act like they are not there.

just wanted to hear some ideas on how to make a good tetori monk in PFS. ill be attending one next week.

here is the catch, i only have the CRB/Ultimate combat pdf's.

and a question that goes off a tetori build, at level 8 i get the grab ability, would it be smart of me to retrain out of snapping turtle style and into snake style at that point?

Ive played dnd/pathfinder for years. starting with dnd 1.5/2.

my playgroup of personal friends had many houserules, and would even create there own systems.

in pathfinder it wasnt terribly different, we made a few houserules and even played gestalt.

now i moved to a new city where playing regularly with my RL friends is unlikely to happen with regularity. however 6 minutes away there is a PFS playgroup.

now given my background im very intimidated to try it. i come from a fast and lose background where the only hard rule was DM is god.

roleplay was encouraged, creative solutions encouraged...creative characters also encouraged.

PFS strikes me from the PDF very "inside the box" with little roleplay or affect on the game.

plus point buy...ugh, its 20 i was told.

i do hate point buy i admit, partially because i like monks and point buy just ruins them imo.

That said anything you can tell me to help comfort me/give me tips would be great.

i saw one confirmed thng supposedly with pathfinder unleashed is making monks full bab

i was excited to see this as it gives me a small glimpse into what they have in store....but then i was too impatient to wait until 2015 to see what else is coming...so i decided to make my own changes. I also want to note i took some from dabbler as frankly...some of his changes are very good.

So this is a list of my changes, i hope they make sense.

Monk changes

Full bab

Strength in Wisdom-Replaces flurry of blows-The monk may use his/her wisdom modifier for hit/damage.

Bonus feats change-a monk may use his bonus feats to select a bonus style feat or elemental fist feat. He does not need to meet the pre-requisites to select these feats, however the monk CANNOT skip the style feat chains (no taking first then 3rd style feat, must go 1, 2, 3) *im struggling with the wording on this but i think its understandable*

Combat style master-replaces maneuver training

Slow fall addition/change-spend one point of ki to reduce the damage you would take from falling as if you fell half the actual distance

high jump addition/change-spend one point of ki to reduce the DC of a jump by half

Fuse style-replaces wholeness of body, able to fuse 2 styles into a more perfect style, may have up to 2 styles stances activated at a time

Diamond Soul addition/change-needs reworked so it doesnt cause you to die at times...bad mechanic, not sure what to do

Dabblers idea directly copied to here: 2) A monk’s unarmed strike treats the hardness or damage resistance (of any type) of a target as less by one point for every level of monk the character possesses. This is a big one, replacing the existing ki-strike options and making the monk able to attempt to hurt anything.

NOTE: i tried to think of what was a monk to me, a disciplined man who focused his inner energy (ki) and trains in martial arts (style feats) so i baked in a lesser form of MOMS.

with making it full bab, i see no reason to even keep FoB, drop it and if you want its equivalent take TWF feats.

i felt directly incorporating MOMS 5 style feats at 20 was too much and caused too much bloat. rather limit it to two and give free combat style master feat..makes more sense and rewards your style choices better differientiates one monk from another monk.

so is this crap or is it gold?

I ask this because i know monks are mad, so if monks have good stats...do they still suck?

monk is...for some reason, the class i know most about, the class i spend the most time playing, theorizing builds for (so many builds), etc.

i even did a non typical defense oriented MOMS gestalt monk where i defeated entire encounters without ever using a ability/feature from my druid side.

its to the point where people have threatened me (half jokingly mind you) to not let me play monks.

i expect it to get worse when i can get back to playing regularly with my playgroup as they instigated a houserule where players can move up to half there speed and full attack (wich will work with monk fast movement bonuses)

Inquisitor/Ranger.

Is the idea of this combination not amazing? so much win in it mechanically.

My main question isnt feats, but spells. What spells to take.

going assimar (pengu line, for +2 dex and wis).

going to take basic wolf, taking boon companion for him.

Was hoping for some fun/interesting gestalt ideas for a MoMS monk.

right now my idea is pretty basic. MoMS/Brawler and taking TWF to get the equivalent of flurry (roughly) and abusing the extra feats to pack in the style feat goodness.

right now its looking like this. Human race

1-imp initiative, TWF, dragon style, combat reflexes
2-dragon ferocity, weapon focus
3-snake style
4-weapon specialization
5-combat style master
6-snake fang, boar style
7-boar ferocity
8-boar shred

Now this may look a bit odd. but let me explain. my group have condensed things like TWF, weapon focus, weapon specialization so that they automatically get the higher version at the correct level/stats. This is why you dont see me taking imp TWF for example.

This is just a basic concept. How would YOU gestalt a MoMS monk?

edit: also power attack is considered a base ability for all classes in our games

with these listed houserules! (ooo curveball)

can move up to half speed and full attack

many feats made baseline (weapon finesse, power attack, piranha strike, anything thats a major feat tax)

many feats consilidated to only require one feat, and then they naturally progress dependong your your level/stats (things like imp grapple or weapon focus, or TWF)

with this in mind, im curious to what you would build for a ninja or a monk.

Just curious if anyones really, seriously tackled this?

at low levels honestly casters feel weak and martial feel like nice meat and potatoes, not flashy but effective.

however getting to level 10 or so you see a massive shift in power.

This is almost entirely because of the spells the casters get, combined with the relatively/substantially weaker feats/abilities martials get (imo)

This is further exasperated with movement restrictions on full attacks.

Also the many steep feat requirements for certain feat lines (TWF looking at you!)

I can show everyone what my playgroup has told me they have implemented, and see if it needs more.

MOVEMENT: You can move up to half your movement and full attack
THOUGHTS: i love this change, mainly because i love monks and have wanted to love TWF style of play. at 10 as a monk with this i can still move 30 feet and flurry of blows...so awesome

FEATS: they have condensed many feats so that they "automatically" progress without taking up a feat slot, depending on your stats/bab/level. Examples are things like TWF, weapon fcus, weapon specialization, all imp feats like grapple, feint, etc. This means instead of spending 3 feats on TWF, imp TWF, and greater TWF, you spend one feat, and it naturally gets better as you level up.
THOUGHTS: love this change too, saves so much bloat, and lets you select more flavorful or thematic feats you wouldnt normally have room for.

FEATS continued: They went a step further and took many feats that were basically considered "Taxes" and made them baseline for the game. everyone has them, its just a matter of whether you use them. This is things like power attack, piranha strike, weapon finesse, etc
THOUGHTS: love this too, just goes that extra step to allowing you to pick the fun feats.

now, my question is, is this enough? would we need MORE? none of this is explicitly designed in itself to buff martials, just make them game a bit less...well...gamey. casters still get save or suck spells and world altering abilities.

My thoughts lay not in the feats, wich everyone gets, but hte unique abilities/resource mechanics martials can get.

ki
grit
mutagens
rage powers
fighter only feats
etc

These imo, need to be SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful, some at least, maybe not all.

builds/ideas on maximizing diguise. probably on a trickly class (ninja)

kitsune is a obvious choice

basically i want to be highly undetectable when i disguise. i want to be able to flee from guards, go around a corner and change myself into something else.

So i want this character to be sorta a disciple of my old druid/moms monk.

sept he will be fighter/monk.

now reason i post it here, is cuz my group has some houserules. like power attack not being a feat but something you can simply turn on when playing. and some things like weapon focus/specialization/any imp feats like grapple. all auto-level at certain bab/skill points. so no extra feats to spend. With allt his in mind, here is what i have, try to fill out hte empty slots if you can.

human brawler/MoMS

1-imp initiative, crane style, crane wing, combat reflexes
2-crane riposte, weapon focus
3-dragon style
4-snake style
5-combat style master
6-dragon ferocity, snake fang
7-
8-
9-
10-tiger style

This is what i have so far.

Need help with a slew of interesting/thematic gestalt ideas! they dont HAVE to be uber powerful (tho nothing wrong with them being that way)

My first idea revolves around the base of a kitsune ninja focusing on being able to walk around a corner and look like somebody else, complete with voice change too, perhaps some ventriloquism. Tho i really dont know what all to pick for it. so any help with that idea too would be great!

Dont be afraid to show me your most interesting ideas.

i was hoping to get your guys input on fun ninja gestalt builds and why you like them/think they are effective.

please, and ty!

The idea is making a real "totem warrior" who basically could only take rage powers from the totems. and the rage powers/feats required to access said totems.

Then combine it with fighter (gestalt that)

so you can use extra rage power feat for more totem powers.

I just imagine this unassuming man that when in a rage morphs into claws, sharp teeth, horns, with the spirits of the dead swirling around him and spikes jutting form his body....not only BA, but terrifying.

having issue. i want to make a cryptic that focuses on debuffing enemies with his disrupt pattern ability.

but to do full damage reliably with disrupt pattern i need to dedicate 6 skill points a level to knowledge skills.

then there is autohypnosis (for psionic meditation if nothing else)

stealth

disable device

and perception.

yes i have a 20 INT at level 1 (blue race).

but that still leaves out acrobatics-now im screwed once a enemy gets adjacent to me wich is not difficult due to disrupt patterns 30 foot range.

no bluff, diplomacy, disguise, escape artist, sleight of hand, spellcraft, use magic device, no craft skills of wich the cryptic is geared towards 2 (traps and tattoos).

how do you deal with this limitation?

note=relying on party isnt good enough, nor is just accepting a higher fail rate on doing full damage.

ok honestly i think i need to be sold on whats actually good on this class vs others. and i know thats presumptious of me to tell people on here to sell me on anything lol. not trying to be mean, but let me share iwth you all my thoughts and part of my discussions with another player on this class.

first, im not gonna do brutal disrupter, maybe some other time, but not now. i want the disable device features.

Second, i find, after looking at the class itself, its powers, its insights, that this class is WOEFULLY bad at scaling with damage, and bad at action economy to help with said damage.

being completly limited to one standard action to attack with there class ability a round, no way to make it faster. a power list that seems unfocused in incapable of filling any role in a party. examples

First thing i look at was damage, it starts out ok, but it quickly falls so low that from what i can tell it might top out around 110-120 damage a round at max level. thats just horrible, 200 would be..maybe...subpar but something. maybe i have a severely warped idea of what damage should be...

but ok, poor but consistant damage, maybe hes a SUPPORT class. so first lets look at offensive support...debuffing and debilitating enemies. i look at the power list, nothing, or almost nothing. i look at insights. what i found was weak to say the least. best i found was explosive+binding insights to do a aoe entangle...thats easy to break for anything that you dont want to move toward you.... Ok, then there is blinding, fort save...thats automatically bad vs again...anything you dont want hitting you. there is some weak other debuffing utility but all highly situational, like cutting a targets healing in half...sounds great, but unless your fighting a cleric or oracle i fail to see the light (pun intended). not too mention explosion doesnt differentiate between friendlies, so unles si go first im screwed with that.

Ok so offensive support is largely nill, how about DEFENSIVE support, healing, buffing stats, etc. look at power list...dare i say this seems worse then offensive. i look at the class...yup, its indeed worse.

so they are bad at damage, bad at offensive support, and bad at defensive support. they have little in the way of varied options to affect enemies nothing i can find that affects will or reflex saves that adds a debilitating effect.

what other role is there? face? bard has it better being cha focused and more skill points a level. then i look at the traps thing.

they have a extensive support for using traps in unique ways...but looking at prices to make traps, time to make traps, time to utilize traps in combat thats not a highly coordinated and pre-emptive setup (like getting ambushed ourselves), the cost of traps coupled with the fact they seem to be oneshot uses then your done. this all screams DM NPC, not PC class.

I am disheartened honestly, i want to like this class, but it seems far and away the weakest class in psionics BY FAR...to the point where i may roll one, but only to see if its as bad as im thinking it is.

Weapon Focus (ray)
point blank shot
precise shot

i know all these work with ray attacks. are there any other abilities i should get for a ray user?

has anyone had any success stories with them?

im making a kitsune ninja with the rakshasa bloodline. focusing on bluff/diplomacy and disguise. swift kitsune shapechanger+realistic likeness by level 3. possibly not taking twf at all and just using a single wakizashi or katana.

most damge oriented abilities would be invisible blade to work with sneak attacks.

being able to at will go invisible and get a sneak attack of fis nice. being able to do it and get a full attack with sneak attacks is amazing!

but on a 3/4 bab class, you have to make your attacks count. missing is more common.

wich is what im looking at maximizing.

weapon focus feats obviously

flanking yes

but anything that can improve upon it further.

also is dualwielding really worth it? seems like the less chance to hit would offset the extra attacks. especially vs a tougher opponent.

i HATE HATE HATE them.

as an example. making a char, 4 6 sideds, drop the lowest, i had these stats.

10,10,10,8,5,5

i know, im amazing. its like this whenever i have to use 6's. so my challenge to you! fine folk of the paizo pathfinder advice board! is to create a character that if possible, never has to use 6's...ever.

and if you can propose a alternate way to roll stats similar to how we do it listed at the top, without using 6's, bonus points!

so eventually a new campaign for my group is going to involve the psionics unleashed books.

Perfect time for me to do something other then melee, psion it is!

go to df20 site and look it all up...im at a loss, or rather, i feel lost. anyone care to help?

all ive managed thus far is to use the "Blue" race and thinking about the "telepath" discipline...cuz it fits with the races backstory.

but other then that im LLLLOOOOSSSSTTTT

Mainly to identify a enemy.

what kind of information do you give?

is it possible to know the enemies weaknesses and such?

Warning: my request very well may be impossible.

I am level 9

So i want to be self sufficient on my barbarian. Enlarge, especially with his reach weapon, is great fun.

Obviously barbarians do not have this spell.

I could take dangerously curious trait, however, using a wand is still a full round action (much to my chagrin)

however, a potion is a standard action! and if i take either accelerated drinker or drunken brute, its a move action...ok, getting somewhere. hwoever.

Taking a potion out of say...a bandolier, seems to be, at best, a move action that causes an AoO.

Is there anyway to make this work without multiclassing or spending crap tons of gold?

My group is also not teamwork oriented enough for my character to walk up to someone and ask them to cast this on me at beginning of fight.

Just curious on the best way to use a reach weapon in combat.

this is a barbarian with beast totem and spell sunder/sunder using a lucerne hammer.

im not familiar with how to best utilize a reach weapon in pathfinder. Not to mention the whole cant attack enemies next to you thing is a concern.

Im not looking for a trip build, ill be sundering, but i still want to take advantage of what i can with a reach weapon.

So is this legitimate?

ready action

enemy closes in, hit them with readied action

they provoke AoO now trying to get adjacent

now that they are adjacent, use knockback.

how far would i have to knock them back with this rage power to force them to provoke another AoO?

Also i dont know if it matters, but i have 2x claws when raging too (lesser beast hand)

ok, so im unsure how this works. take transformative. says you add 10,000gold.

I assumed this means if you had a +4 or +5 weapno you could add this ability for 10000g.

however my friend says you need a +4 weapon, and the effect adds +4, making it +8, and thus costing a rediculous amount of gold.

that seems very unintuitive to me.

"If she succeeds at the second saving throw, she is not affected by the spell, supernatural ability, or spell-like ability"

that is the main part of this ability im unsure about. does that mean you are not affected by ANY of it? not even half damage? or some lesser effect?

in the thread "little known rules" towards the beginning i found a poster post something basically amounting to this.

"any bonuses to hit apply to the combat maneuver if you can use the chosen weapon for it, weapon focus, bless, weapon training)

is this true? i saw no replies to his post saying either way, and have yet to be able to find the actual reference in the rules.

I have had a couple people tell me you cant sunder a magical weapon lest you have a bonus on your weapon equal or greater then the enemies weapon/armor.

But ive also heard that its a 3.5 rule and doesnt exist in pathfinder.

But so far ive been unable to find the rule itself!

So almost anyone ive known or heard about who plays with friends at a actual tabletop...eventually starts hourseruling things.

Some may be large, some may be small. But everyone seems to do it.

I want to make a thread where people will post there houserules they use, and why, and there experience with them be it good or bad. at the moment we have little in the way of houserules because we have started our first campaign in pathfinder, after wich...we will compile our experiences nad houserule as we see fit.

About only thing that comes to mind is the way temp hp works with a barbarian, we didnt like the feat tax or sudden death syndrome, so now it acts s actual temp hp and goes first. We havent had much experience with it yet tho, we have one barbarian, and there has only be one isntance that it saved him. he merely went below 0 hp, isntead of dead.

I see this ability, and all i can think is the times id enjoy using it...but even i must admit, its obviously of some limited use.

so id love to hear peoples opinions,a nd if possible, success stories of using this ability.

Level 9 2 handed fighter/invulnerable rager. To make this mention, my group thought barbarian sudden death syndrome was dumb, and that requiring a single feat by all barbarians to prevent it equally so, so they changed how barbarians rage temp hp worked so raging vitality is no longer required, and barbs dont get sudden death. Now that said.

Human. Name: Sunder Dat
Weapon: Adamantine Lucerne Hammer

Human bonus feat: Improved Initiative

Fighter Feats
1-Power Attack
2-Improved Sunder
4-Weapon Focus
6-Greater Sunder
8-Dazzling Display

General Feats
1-Combat Reflexes
3-Extra Rage: Witch Hunter
5-Extra Rage: Knock back
7-Extra Rage: Lesser Beast Totem
9-Extra Rage: Smasher

Rage Powers
2-Superstition
4-Strength Surge
6-Spell Sunder
8-Beast Totem

Traits-Dangerously Curious, Unnatural Presence.

I just wanted to say i didnt all out optomize him on purpose, rather i think with gestalt, optomizing just leads sometimes rediculously overpowered characters.

When you read them together, its a logical conclusion that once you get backswing, all your attacks recieve double damage bonus.

however if you read them individually...sounds like overhand chop is only if you make one swing...like with vital strike, or as a standard action.

so wich is it?

Just wondering how you guys "fluff" to justify it? My line of thinking is i wanted to use greatsword, but a blunt twohander would be nice as well

now i probably wont min/max completly on my barbarian, but i still want to know how to, mainly cuz, aside from power attack, and a few rage powers, i dont see how to really change the barbarians damage output much.

just curious to what happens here, someoen uses perfect/true strike to hit, then the enemy usees an ability to make them reroll...do they still get there bonuses and such?

This is the plan for a backup character in case my main character dies in a gestalted campaign. A barbarian/fighter, at the moment level 10, but we plan on seeing how far we can get our gestalted characters. we are well aware of the balance difficulties of gestalt and are ok with that.

The Overbearing Sunderer, is a barbarian with fighter progression of feats, allowing me to abuse my regular feats and for extra rage powers, and still getting combat feats as i level. At the moment i only have it planned up to level 11. And in case you were wondering, this focuses on overrun and sunder maneuvers.

Human

1-Power attack
1a-Improved Sunder
1b-Improved Overrun
2-Smasher
2a-Charge Through
3-Extra Rage Power: Superstition
4-Witch Hunter
4a-Combat Reflexes
5-Extra Rage Power: Strength Surge
6-Spell Sunder
6a-Greater Overrun
7-Extra Rage Power: Overbearing Advance
8-Lesser Beast Totem
9-Extra Rage Power: Beast Totem
10-Greater Beast Totem
10a-?
11-Extra Rage Power: Overbearing Onslaught

That is what i have so far...and its beautiful to my melee addicted self.

I can charge (+2 overrun), and using Strength surge, overrun a few bad guys, gaining an attack of opportunity on each, wich i can use for sunder attacks...using smasher to ignore hardness. then on the first one that i choose to stop at or that im forced to stop cuz my CMB roll was too crappy by then, i full attack.

with a 20 STR, and another +6 from greater rage, my CMB on a overrun with strength surge should be about +36 at level 11.

I know strength surge/smasher only work vs one target, thats fine, its still +25 to my overrun score without STR surge.

I have one main issue, i dont know where to go with my level 10 combat feat, and beyond, as its easily possible when i get to this character ill be higher then level 11.

any reason to get the feats for these maneuvers other then the +2/+4 benefit? it looks like this pretty much replaces it other then the fact the feats let you do it when not raging.

most know what ragecycling is. my issue is while i want to do it, and i believe its intended to be done. i cant fathom a non game-y way to roleplay it.

why does the barbarian need to stop raging, then start again to re-use his rage powers? with it being a free action its entirely a formality in of itself.

its clunky, un-intuitive, and as ive seen it, impossible to roleplay.

and thats the catch, my group is big on not exactly reality, but understandability. it makes no sense, so its frowned upon.

say there is this guy, hes a great speaker, maybe for his religion, or just a cause. PC's come and try to grill him on info.

what abilities could i make this character have that could rouse the crowd he had into a frenzy and have them attack the PC's to allow the speaker a chance to escape?

is there any reason to try and shield bash if you do not have two weapon fighting?

Basically, old dnd books had gods actually listed in them, with stats and abilities.

i have yet to come across anything like that for pathfinder

does anything like that exist? looking for irori

Aye. All are stellar ideas. Count me in on the heist, as I'll be "borrowing" from this list, as well.