steelhead's page

I am curious about this as well. In the past there would be notification that the digital version is available with a link in the email.

Also, I hope the pdf is somewhat compressed because the last virtual book I received (Dark Archive) was huge. There’s got to be a middle ground between accessibility without crashing your computer and medium resolution images for printing purposes.

I know a goblin who might be interested in some of that information - just from a practitioner’s perspective, of course.

What do you mean that ‘players know monster statistics?’ Does that mean they can sit with the Monster Core open on the table next to them as they play the game? Or is it that the players can just use information they remember about monsters?

I’ll second everything that Tridus said. Additionally, I would recommend that you gently guide them away from the more complicated classes at the start of the game. The basic classes are all strong, some more than others, but more importantly, it’s easy to learn the class features and how the game works.

I have seen a number of times in both home games and Pathfinder Society play when the players are interested in a certain character concept, they take on a complicated class, get overwhelmed, and/or do not use all the classes’ strengths. Often they end up not returning or leaving the campaign, with the idea the Pathfinder 2e is ‘too complicated.’ Although, Pathfinder is not as complex as some TTRPGs, it can be overwhelming for new players and I think the OP reflects that understanding.

As someone who has been playing for three decades and loves spellcasters, during the transition from 1e to 2e I stayed away from them until recently. I had a blast with the martial classes and used the advice of encouraging certain classes when I introduced my son to the game. We haven’t regretted it and he’s two characters into PFS now.

Therefore, I would recommend fighters, sorcerers, champions, rangers, rogues, clerics, and monks. Those are all easy to learn classes with a quick turnaround on enjoyment of the game. The PCs start exploring how these stronger components interact effectively with the rest of the game without the higher difficulty of absorbing edge class rules. Your players will be ready to take on more complicated classes after they have gained essential rules mastery.

Dot

Henry should be a rune carved lich as that gives some flexibility in the creature’s build while also starting with an impressive array of power. The flayer is going to be a lot harder because it took at least three different forms during the series.

lol. Then I’m interested in what you decide. Are you asking for a player or as an idea for an NPC?

Speaking as a GM, I would likely not let such an iconic reaction - which is essential to the liberator’s connection with their diety’s ideals - be used by a fallen champion. But as Squiggit said, TIFWIW. I’d be interested to hear what your GM says about it.

An eshmok (wasp demon) might be a good approximation of demogorgons. It’s a couple levels above a hound of tindalos and the wasp abilities can be reskinned as a black mist manifestation of the ST mind flayer. This is taking too much of my time but now that I’m started, I feel like I’ve got to complete the conversion exercise with the ST two BBEGs.

Any ideas other Pathfinder fans might have on this are appreciated. I will probably never use the conversions, but it might spur some inspiration for other GMs.

... a bunch of stuff about dragons and…

and wow at the 100 spd L3 Quickling.
It's no wonder I've never heard of this creature before, because that's just gamebreaking at that level. They even have a specific Slow weakness (though it is mostly a -2 save penalty), but to a spell the PCs won't have at L3, lol. Actually gives slow-possible Skunk...

Yes, quicklings are fast but you can grapple them with your best marshal class and then the rest of the group goes to town. Dragons are the same. They should be terrifying - possibly necessitating a retreat and then being better prepared with both resources and tactics for a rematch. There’s a reason that other game highlights the setting and then one type of monster. Dragons should be frightening and I like that my players go through game-experienced PTSD shivers anytime the possibility of running across one of the extremely intelligent beasts comes up.

Yeah, you can literally make whatever you want down there.

Wasn't there at one point (iN golarion's lore) a huge civilization underground in a continent sized cave, that had a giant false sun thing (I think it was a magical light emitting crystal) so that it actually had day and night cycles and light based food cycles (plants).

Or am I confusing myself with something else?

The lore is real and the implications of the ‘sun’ (actually ‘suns’) were explored in the Extinction Curse adventure path - most specifically in the fifth book. In Lord of the Black Sands the PCs travel into the Darklands in search of one of these suns. In relation to the OP, the bonkers nature of underground radiation killing off everything but the strongest of sentient creatures made for a great setting. Although some people didn’t like it, my group enjoyed the unique location that a deadly, deep underground vault provided.

Tacking on to that "Impossible Allies" idea, Geb, shocks everyone, by coming in AGAINST Tar-Baphon and Cheliax, offering aid to Andoran, Absolom and Ravounel.

That is an interesting idea and not too far out of the realm of possibility. I’m sure Absalom might benefit from food exports by Geb. Additionally, as the city gears up for war, Geb’s export of weapons would also be welcome.

How much have you watched? I don't want to accidentally ruin anything.

I will say that I think the "upside down" is like a transitive plane. It's probably closest to the Shadow Plane (now named as the Netherworld).

The Abyss...well the enemies in Stranger things originated from the place they call the Abyss. But it honestly seems like it could simply be a distant alien world, or it could be another plane. Though it is called the abyss in the show, it doesn't resemble the abyss of Pathfinder or DnD.

Before the finale, the idea was introduced that the upside down was a bridge via wormhole, so I'm actually of the mind that the "Abyss" was a distant alien world with an unknowable alien creatures. Though it doesn't make much difference whether it's another plane or a distant world.

I have seen all episodes and I got the Abyss and Upside Down confused, so I agree with you on your assessment of those realms. Although, Leng might also be a good stand in for the Stranger Things’ Abyss. Leng would lend itself well to being the source of hounds of tindalos as demodogs.

If the upside down was the astral plane, couldn’t that contribute to the idea that the ST abyss is actually a planetoid pocket dimension in the astral plane?

I’ll need to think a little more about other creatures. I don’t think they necessarily need to be from their Pathfinder locations as the idea is to just see if there are rules-based equivalents for the ST lore.

Okay, I’m bored and counting down the time until I can go see the finale in the theater. It got me thinking that we need to Remaster the world with an array of stranger creatures and their equivalents in Pathfinder, as well as the things that stand in for many of the plot points - especially now that we have more answers on the lore. For example, the abyss is probably the equivalent of the Ethereal plane in Pathfinder, connecting the Universe to something else. I guess we can’t call out that last location until we know more about Dimension X.

The equivalent of creatures in this streaming world that we’ve come to know in the last decade is a little harder. Those pesky dogs might be fairly similar to Hounds of Tindalos. What about the BBEG and his minions? Is there a stand in creature for that possessing cloud (or is it more of a sentient connective tissue to the abyss)? I guess we don’t know all the answers quite yet, and may not get them in the last episode but it is fun to give a first crack at some conversions.

I just came across this great video explaining the issues of low-level play in Pathfinder 2e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaUD53ZXsM.

Absolutely worth a watch!

As an old-time wizard player, I finally got the courage to build another one after gaining plenty of 2e experience through other classes. I look forward to watching this video at home. Between that and Deriven’s breakdown by level, I should have plenty of food for thought in building my newest spellcaster.

I am surprised there is not a poison or something that makes creatures more susceptible to precision damage (e.g., a weakness to precision similar to the current items/abilities providing a weakness to bleed). Until there’s a more thorough examination of this problem in the next edition, Paizo should provide some patches to make it less painful when a creature essentially debuffs the rogue, swashbuckler, etc.

In 3.X/PF1 I'd always emphasized players to have a secondary trick for when their primary one meets an immunity, i.e. tripping snakes. Yet I'm unsure there's a smooth solution here for standard-trope builds despite having a few builds in mind. Do all Dex-Rogues & Swashbucklers need to carry abnormal amounts of alchemy? Maybe in the same way full plate martials need an answer to ranged battles.

That was my thought as well - buy some alternative tools as a backup plan. Having to work around non-standard tactics might also encourage more Recall Knowledge checks to figure out a creature’s weakness before using different options. I’ve found that RK is used much less than PF 1e (for a number of reasons).

Tarondor wrote:

I've done a conversion of The Emerald Spire to PF2e. HERE IT IS.

Old post, I know, but I'm curious! Is this 2e Remaster, or base 2e?

Since the Remaster happened at the end of 2023 and these posts were well before that, I’m guessing it is base 2e. However, don’t let that stop you from using it. Base 2e is easily usable in the Remaster.

One easy way to tell for certain is look at the abilities to see if they are just bonuses. If not, it’s preremaster but you just ignore the scores and pay attention to the bonuses. Also, if there’s alignment scores then it’s base 2e. If so, it’s just minor conversions that can be made on the fly.

If you managed to gain some way to get an extra class feat, you could take it earlier. I'm not sure such a way exists, but it's possible.

Can’t humans get an extra class feat at first level via the Natural Ambition feat? As far as I know, that’s the only way.

Thanks for the summary of schools, Mathmuse. Did “Rival Academies” list all the current schools at the time of its printing? If not, that is long overdue, especially if any future Paizo publications have a significant amount of spells or added schools.

It sounds like we will get a mirage archdragon! I wonder what level those will be and if there will be different levels among all other archdragons.

Dot

The perfectly-timed thread as I was just getting ready to ask about how 2E mythic rules have played at tables - although that’s not what I was expecting from the title of this thread. There’s some really good ideas here, and despite me enjoying the occasional challenge (e.g. my animist is a lot of fun but there’s many moving parts), I’ve also had players drop out of games due to the ‘complexity’ of their characters. I didn’t think a ranged ranger was that hard to play, but there’s that difference between people, as someone mentioned above.

I waited until my son was in his teens before introducing him to the game as a barbarian. I saw lots of people bringing their younger kids and burning them out. Now he’s just made a sorcerer and is having a blast with his goblin pyromaniac. By the way, ‘No Than You Evil’ is a fantastic rules-light RPG introduction for younger kids.

So mileage may vary by table and among players, but the game providing options of complexity regardless of the class is an interesting one. To a degree, that is already dialed into some of the classes. Perhaps it will be explored further in an Unchained book once we get closer to the next edition?

I think this would be best if it addressed the differences between the settings. I don’t really see a ‘best practices’ book, but more an exploration of how it’s been done in the past, the limits of that, and how things might be taken. For example, the Numerian advanced technology is a far cry from Starfinder tech, with a much grittier feel. I would like to see that updated for Pathfinder but am not really interested in bringing any Starfinder technology into my game.

The Empty Stones NPCs are written as telling the group they don’t know where the aeon orb taken by the splinter group is located. I was planning on an alternative side-trek to Absalom if they pushed the issue. However, they took the NPCs at face value and plunged into the Black Desert. Like Tridus’ group, mine enjoyed the change from what has been a very xulgath-focused campaign up until this point.

I can tell you the origins of Teki Stronggut, if you would like, as I was the person who wrote her first incarnation as a mortal.

Hah! Thank you for that as I enjoy giving my non-divine characters a deity to worship. Now I know who my PFS goblin braggart swashbuckler reveres! He has a cook background and is not very good at it (average intelligence), which means that he combines the metropolitan ingredients of Absalom with those found from his goblin upbringing in the Puddles district. Perfect for Teki’s humble background. Maybe he one day hopes to meet his goddess in the Great Beyond if he is brave enough in defending the weak so he can cook her his reefclaw grub gumbo.

I believe shades can retain memories from a previous life and it gets hazy over time as they get closer and closer to becoming one with their quintessence realm (e.g., final Outer Plane resting point). That information was found in Planar Adventures, which is a phenomenal book that is primarily a world-/planes-building narrative. The book lays out a lot of the metaphysical details of the Golarion universe, which is still wholly relevant, despite being published at the tail end of 1e.

The need for some shades to retain memories justifies why classes like the animist and spells or abilities like the OP exist. Especially as a class that can tap ancestral spirits for assistance, if non-undead spirits did not retain some to all of their memories then there would be no spiritual link beyond the undead.

steelhead wrote:

So we come full circle…

My OP was regarding PFS, but now after a lot more debate related to home games, it appears there’s no standardization. Does that mean we’re back to the request for Paizo to let us know how we should be doing this with an outline of what to do at official tables and guidelines (or at least notice of what might become problematic in encounter design) for home games?

I am still pretty confused why you would be expecting there to be standardization of handling cross-over content in people's home games

And I am very confused as to how you read ‘guidelines [which is italicized for emphasis](or at least notice of what might become problematic in encounter design’ as standardization. I have never said that things should be standardized and would hate for someone to tell me how to run my home games.

Having a standard conversion is a defense for both GMs and players, because it sets the vanilla baseline. A GM does not have to worry about pressure to use someone else's home rule, when the official conversion rule already exists.

So we come full circle…

My OP was regarding PFS, but now after a lot more debate related to home games, it appears there’s no standardization. Does that mean we’re back to the request for Paizo to let us know how we should be doing this with an outline of what to do at official tables and guidelines (or at least notice of what might become problematic in encounter design) for home games?

Trip.H wrote:

FFS, I'm not demonizing Pharamsa.

I am explaining the magical metaphysical mechanisms and history that have always been there, but are more openly discussed by the AP.

If pointing out that yes, she is the architect who set the rules, created their enforcers, etc, "demonizes" her from your PoV, that is your value judgement.

Norns aren't her enforcers though? They tend to fate but do not have any innate connection with Pharasma, she didn't create them or set them to task and it's not mentioned or implied anywhere that she did. The Stolen Fate situation has no bearing on Pharasma or the Afterlife and is basically just a non-sequitor you brought in to be like "Actually she kinda sucks huh?"

Media Rez seems to have a correct read of the situation. The norns are fey, rather than psychopomps - who are the servants of Pharasma. The Lady of Graves really only has ‘control’ over fate by being able to see when is the correct time for someone to die. That way she knows when their souls should be moved on or when they should hang out in the Boneyard waiting to re-enter the Universe.

This looks very cool, especially all the mix and match options! I’ll definitely check this out when I get home and can see all the glory on my large home screen.

steelhead wrote:

and the power landslide it entails

You keep talking about power landslide.. but your OP essentially just boils down to one specific feature, not some fundamental systemic shift.

Like, I do think level 1 flight is probably something most GMs should stay away from in PF2 and it's a lot stronger than most level 1 ancestry features, but I also think it's somewhat telling that the 'landslide power creep' here is one character being able to overcome a specific skill challenge... but only personally so the actual challenge still remains an obstacle for the party as a whole unless they all take this specific quirk.

‘Power creep landslide’ is somewhat overstated, but I also don’t think it’s the minimal impact you are mentioning. There are two players with that boon in our local PFS group. It is not just a matter of trivializing a specific skill challenge. That skill challenge was in the context of a combat where enemies used terrain to their advantage. As I and others have stated, at lower levels encounter design is not predicated on the assumption that two flyers are able to grab two other party members and fly them over complicating terrain.

If others also see it as a problem, then it was worth the conversation. How it plays out might be insignificant, but if the discussion got people to think through implications and possibilities… well, that’s why I keep returning to these forums.

Don't allow Starfinder rules in home games. Easy fix.

For PFS it strikes me as a non-issue. PFS is Pathfinder easy mode by design, so as to better facilitate the onboardong of new players. Someone playing a slightly busted character doesn't really change any of the outcomes.

That said, I do agree that there is a risk of power creep that we've not seen before.

You’ve got a good point here about PFS being an easy mode campaign. I was hoping with the new ‘hard’ and ‘easy’ mode adjustments that might change, but with the issue of no or minimal firewall between the two gaming systems it might be time for me to decide I just want to limit myself to home games.

When SF was created because of the success of Iron Gods (at least that is my partial understanding of it), I did not expect to see SFS mixed in with PFS. I enjoyed Iron Gods, but that is very different from the SF campaign mixing with PFS (and the power landslide it entails).

That is a good list and makes me rethink and plan out some character choices. Thanks!

I have really enjoyed how Pathfinder 2nd edition has limited power creep, which I think can be demonstrated in how, despite all the new classes over the years, the initial ones remain relevant. However, I’ve noticed some warning signs in Pathfinder Society (PFS) and believe this warrants a broader discussion as even those who only play in home games should be aware and join in the conversation.

First the context: in a recent PFS game, a player brought a 1st level dragonkin character to the table. It was described as coming from a boon that allowed him to use that 2E Starfinder ancestry in PFS because of his participation in the Starfinder play test. As we played through the scenario, his dragonkin character was able to easily fly himself and others over a chasm with a slippery bridge because dragonkin get unlimited flight right out of the gate. With low level assumptions between adventure design in PF and SF being so different, if more of these unintentional slippages occur, I’m worried that we’re headed for a landslide of power creep in Pathfinder. The only way I see around this is by making these types of assumptions explicit and possibly allowing for some control (at least in home games).

I understand that people have more control in their home games by limiting to only common options or just allowing things out of certain books, etc. However, for PFS the GMs do not have that kind of control. So for other PFS GMs, have you seen this type of power creep and how has it affected your games? For home GMs, does this lowering the barriers by having a shared ruleset between PF and SF affect you? If so, in what ways?

In a magical setting full of illusions, polymorph abilities, and charm/control effects, one would expect veterans (or those led by veterans) to use passwords & signals. Those would simply be normal precautions about common magical subterfuge tactics. In much the same way guards would likely kill unknown animals poking around simply because Familiars & Pest Form are available at low levels.

So sure, you might get them to say exactly what you want, but not necessarily what they'd need to say to get what you want.

Though published material doesn't do this much, I'd think there'd be more doubles, people disguised as leadership. Or leaders that blend in. Magical sniping would be too prevalent to ignore. Does Battlecry! address cutting off the head of armies? Or mimicking them? And countermeasures?

I agree with SuperParkourio that the success of this completely relies on context (e.g., whether someone saw the spell being cast, whether the orders contradict higher commands, etc.). In relation to Castilloano’s post, even in a magical setting the average grunts are not going to have the same encyclopedic knowledge, or even awareness of these types of magic and their effects.

Killing of random animals poking around, because that’s what all animals do, and assuming there are enough spellcasters stealing people’s identities that there are significant safeguards in place indicates a different world / campaign to me. It seems likely that even in the rare cases where a caster - or even doppleganger - assumes someone’s identity, maintaining that identity for any amount of time (minimally minutes, hours, or especially days) would be very hard because people surrounding the false identity will start noticing the lack of certain quirks, accents, and even mannerisms. That’s a lot of Deception checks, assuming the spellcaster looked into the fake identity! Once again, it’s all about context.

The point of a free hand weapon is being able to do multiple things instead of one thing. For those who like to do multiple things, they save a lot of actions on drawing and stowing weapons.

This is definitely true on action-starved builds. My halfling animist with his sling staff needs both hands for striking with that weapon. However, if he finds himself in melee and wants to maximize embodiment of battle, saving an extra action is pretty clutch.

Unfortunately, doubling rings do not work between melee and ranged weapons. But that leads to the question of whether a halfling sling staff can be used in melee. I suppose that’s GM dependent, but I don’t think I’d allow it.

I recall reading somewhere that Paizo was transitioning their major announcements to the monthly website updates. However, those haven’t been very consistent and so now as a consumer I don’t have the conventions to anticipate for the announcements, even though I do not attend those. Additionally, with the lack of major bulletins on the blogs/website I’m starting to lose interest in a game that I’ve been playing for a while but know less and less about what products are coming as each month passes.

I also really don't like non-scaling items. I think a good thing to introduce to your games are relics. These are special items that grow stronger with your character, and they unlock new abilities as you level up. For example, you could have an axe that is an earth/plant relic that starts with the ability to spray pollen at level 1, and then at level 5 gains the shattered earth ability, letting you create difficult terrain.

I am also a big fan of relic items. They give more variety as the item doesn’t have to be a weapon or armor, and can start as almost any type of permanent magic item. The problem I’ve found is there hasn’t been any continued support for them such as expanded gifts or even relic categories. I’m currently trying to home brew something that does not overlap with the shadow gift and some others, but it’s not easy.

That being said, epic items still don’t fix the problem of the huge amount of non-scaling items. If DCs for at least some of the cooler items scaled, then there wouldn’t be as much brow-beating about PCs being unable to find markets at their level. Particularly, the middle to upper level characters in certain APs can have difficulty selling items they will never use because of either a lack of interest or very short shelf life of how useful the items can be without a scaling DC.

KaedenR wrote:

My biggest concern with the narrower level bands: you level out of it so quickly, it can be difficult to figure out which scenarios to schedule for in-person venues.

That's my fear, as well. Scheduling. No question it's easier to prep. But what good is prepping a game that doesn't have enough players?

Also, are in-person non-convention games on the decline? I hadn't thought about that, and I only have my area to go off of, but is that other folks' experience?

Our local games are seeing a surge in popularity! Fortunately, our local store expanded to a larger location and the in-person non-convention games have gone from every other week to nearly every week there is not a convention nearby. Additionally, for PF2e games we’re starting to fill two tables pretty consistently.

Will adventure path subscriptions still include a free pdf? I have never subscribed to a hard cover book line at Paizo so am hoping someone who is more knowledgeable can inform me know. The quarterly subscription model might also give folks more time to subscribe or unsubscribe. However, that will only be the case if adventure release dates are relatively consistent.

I think the question was related to that and was just wondering if anyone has heard anything related to that upcoming release. If not, that’s what my question will be.

I envisioned ways to make casters somewhat playable in Dead-magic regions while keeping to the lore that casters avoid these as the plague. It is a tricky thing to do.

For example, allowing consumables to work but not permanent items...

You keep using the term ‘dead-magic’ but I’ve seen Paizo referring to them as wellspring surges in both Impossible Lands and Secrets of Magic. The whole point is to not shut down spell casters. I would recommend that you look at the above links now before you try reinventing the wheel, as your ideas are very similar to those highlighted in the tables for surges (if casters fail their flat checks).

The rules that Perses13 was looking for are likely in those two books. It seems both the Alkenstar AP and adventuring more widely near the Mana Wastes could work now if everyone is on the same page regarding the randomness of wellspring surges. With all this discussion I’m now considering looking at that AP with fresh eyes to see if my current group would be interested.

Loreguard wrote:

I do remember reading that although a whole section of the city has an Anti-magic zone, the AP says there shouldn't be any feeling that a spellcaster would be at a disadvantage in the campaign, which just seems odd.

PF2 retconned a bit of the dead magic stuff from PF1. The main emphasis in PF2 is less that magic doesn't work at all and more that magic is unreliable in the Mana Wastes. There's rules for it in Impossible Lands. Personally I like that more than dead zones.

…It makes sense from the perspective of not wanting to disappoint people who want to play their favorite class, but it doesn't give mechanical support to the lore and so puts more work on the GM.

Secrets of Magic contains rules for Wellspring magic, which doesn’t completely shut down spell casters but does hamper magic (in degrees from not at all, to severely changed) in specific areas. Most those areas are in wastes and not the city. See the link to wellspring magic in the chart linked above from the Impossible Lands book. I haven’t played the AP, but it seems that a GM could make it a lesser or greater plot point since I believe the PCs spend most of their time in the city rather than the wastes.

exequiel759 wrote:

They could sell a book about reworking certain classes like the old PF1e unchained. Wizard and inventor deserve it.

I liked the Unchained Book. We changed to the unchained summoner when it came out. It was more fun to have eidolons that truly mirrored the creatures they were supposed to be.

The unchained rogue was also good. The class still had a glass jaw, but was better than the alternative. I enjoyed Unchained as well. It was a nice showcase of optional rules, “fixed” classes, and would be a good way to try some changes before 3e arrives. If I recall correctly, Unchained tested some of the rules that are now included in 2e. It would be great venue to add some changes or additions to sub-systems that could use quality of life alterations.

All the powerful reality and magic warping spells got turned into rituals, so what does being an arcane spell at its core mean anymore?

Might be wishful thinking but if we get another shot at Secrets of magic, since it can't be remastered and needs to be redone almost entirely, would be nice to get another deluge of spells and hope to balance out the number of uniques a bit. Just to really hone in on the flavors of each tradition.

It sounds like Rival Academies did not scratch that itch? If that’s the case, did that most recent arcane-focused book do anything to address the above concerns? I’ve been debating getting it, but did not want to do so unless it really turned the wizard up to 11.

Thanks for starting this and the continuing additions! I’ll have to look on my computer at home as I think I’ve got a home-brewed settlement from one of the many in Extinction Curse.

Jim Kiley wrote:

That's certainly agreed - and the fact that you can take specific actions during chapter 2 of that book to counter that problem is good. It just sticks in my craw after having most of book 5 deny this sort of ability.

Yeah I hear you. Book 5 is a weird fit in this adventure and this "you must do it roughly in this order because we wont let you get around that easily" applies.

In this quote, Jim Kiley, you say that most of book 5 denies this ability, which isn’t true. In fact, your first post makes it clear that teleportation is harder, not impossible. My group recently discovered this when the gnome tried using his Life Leap ability. The crystals tried to counteract the ability but were unsuccessful so the gnome popped out on the other side of his opponent. The possibility of the transportation trait being counteracted allowed me as a GM to emphasize the radiation from the blightburn sickness does more than just give people a deadly sickness.

In my mind, this serves to underscore why there aren’t a ton of adventurers who have already looted the Black Desert and surrounding environs: it is both a deadly location and very hard to get in and out of, even by high level characters in the world (of which there are not many). I must say that me and my group are really enjoying the layers of this adventure, and the more opportunities that I as a GM get to expose those nuances to them, all the better!

thewastedwalrus wrote:

I'd say a level 15 cleric or druid is pretty rare, but to each their own.

I would say a level 15 cleric or druid is common in level 15 parties.

Very common in fact.

I think that thewastedwalrus’s point is by keeping blightburn sickness as it is, there are a couple of functions occurring. First, it describes why in Golarion there are not dozens of adventurers moving and looting through Vask. There is a real-game narrative that also provides mechanisms via the rules for this location to be exotic and not often visited.

Second, blightburn sickness as it plays out (at least in my group) is significant enough to a 15th level party for them to figure out how to overcome it while they are in the Black Sands Desert. Since it doesn’t manifest right away, likely the characters with weakest Con. saves get it and then the cleric or someone else needs to deal. That lends the possible help from the urdefhan more weight while the group tries to make sure everyone is immune.

My group is just now trying to work through this. Interestingly, the higher Con. save players are not yet immune because they have not been affected by it yet. I’m intrigued to see how this plays out, especially since they are now realizing how important the urdefhan’s gift was.