The Resentment and the Occult Tradition


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Verdant Wheel

Hey folks,
I have a Resentment Witch, and looking to compile spells from the Occult list that work synergy with the Familiar's ability.

2nd
Slow

That's all I got so far. Are there any rank one spells that synergize? What about rank three and four?
Cheers
=)


Slow is a 3rd level spell.
Revealing Light should work, too.


Afaik it should work with spells from a dedication too, so Befuddle should be extended too.

Synesthesia is a given.

A funny one is Synaptic Pulse. You can perma CC a creature that crit fails its save.

Some curses too. Curse of Lost time for example would impose clumsy 1 and enfeebled 1 for as long as your familiar can keep up. Feast of Ashes and Cup of Dust would do Fatigued instead (honestly I think the fair fix for this mess of an ability is that it should only be able to extend spells with the curse trait and widen a bit so it extends any short-lived curse effect).


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Synesthesia may be forbidden by many GMs. All the spells from the core rulebook that haven't been reprinted can cause some issues (Synesthesia causes a balance one).


SuperBidi wrote:
Synesthesia may be forbidden by many GMs. All the spells from the core rulebook that haven't been reprinted can cause some issues (Synesthesia causes a balance one).

Don't think many people will ban it being honest. Some will, for sure, but it is still legal in PFS, so hard to argue for a ban besides just doing it cause it is a strong spell.

If anything, I think more people will ban this subclass. Slow + resentment is already too much.

Verdant Wheel

What about rank one?


Doesn’t the granted Enfeeble spell work? Check the duration in it.


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roquepo wrote:

Don't think many people will ban it being honest. Some will, for sure, but it is still legal in PFS, so hard to argue for a ban besides just doing it cause it is a strong spell.

If anything, I think more people will ban this subclass. Slow + resentment is already too much.

I don't find Resentment to be out of bounds. People are screaming about how strong it is but I don't see it being banned (well, it still depends on how people will play the Sickened condition, similarly to the discussion we got about the Frightened condition inflicted by Dirge of Doom). About Synesthesia, I expect at some point the old content to be somehow "archived". A lot of it is no more playable and even if it's playable it's using old syntax and traits. A couple of years in the future, I'd not be surprised if GMs start banning it on a regular basis just because it's disruptive.


I’m getting ready to rebuild my witch for PFS, so will return to this thread once that is done. Yes, part of the challenge/benefit of the Remaster is that previous spells can still be used unless they are banned for some reason.


Xenocrat wrote:
Doesn’t the granted Enfeeble spell work? Check the duration in it.

Yes, it works with a successful save on Enfeeble to keep Enfeebled 1 going.

Dark Archive

I have a fun one from a non-spell source.

One of my players pointed out the Emotional Fervor effect of a Hatred Cathartic Mage. Its very high-risk/high reward, and your 4th turn will suck, but as a no-save, every encounter, sustainable debuff, that potentially live from 2nd level, it's pretty strong.

... if you survive.

Quote:


Emotional Fervor Your emotional focus is flat-footed to you and takes a –2 status penalty to saves against your spells. You're flat-footed to your emotional focus and take a –2 status penalty to saves against it.

Emotional Fallout You become stunned 2.

So, in theory, the the turn flow would go:

R1: Use reaction to gain benefits and penalties. Survive.
R4: Your Fervor penalites expire. Use single action to sustain the debuff through famailiar ability. Survive
R5+: Reap your rewards, such as they are...


I think Resentment only works with names conditions, so off guard but not the status penalty.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Shouldn't any spell that applies a condition work? So, fear, enfeeble, Evil Eye, the effects of dizzying colours, and stupidefy.

Two things seem a bit unclear. What does other means mean in the context of removing conditions. So, it seems obvious that conditions could be dispelled/cured by magic/medicine. What about sickened? Does vomiting count as other means?

Dark Archive

Xenocrat wrote:
I think Resentment only works with names conditions, so off guard but not the status penalty.

Under this reading, how would something like Synesthesia work? Are we saying that only the Clumsy condition would get extended and not the other parts of the spell?


Old_Man_Robot wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I think Resentment only works with names conditions, so off guard but not the status penalty.
Under this reading, how would something like Synesthesia work? Are we saying that only the Clumsy condition would get extended and not the other parts of the spell?

Yep, that's exactly how some folks are running it. Clumsy 3 is still pretty strong on its own, since it's rare to get a status penalty that high.

Dark Archive

QuidEst wrote:
Old_Man_Robot wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I think Resentment only works with names conditions, so off guard but not the status penalty.
Under this reading, how would something like Synesthesia work? Are we saying that only the Clumsy condition would get extended and not the other parts of the spell?
Yep, that's exactly how some folks are running it. Clumsy 3 is still pretty strong on its own, since it's rare to get a status penalty that high.

Huh.

I was intending to extend the source effect, as that is what the condition timer is based on.

I took “any negative conditions” to be more natural language than specifically named, capital C, Conditions.

Are people also reading the “any” to mean “any single one” as opposed to all the effects from the save effect? For example, in Synesthesia, are they making people pick between clumsy and the speed penalty?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Demoralize, evil eye, and fear are all low level abilities that bestow negative conditions that can be extended by Ongoing Misery.


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Parry wrote:

Shouldn't any spell that applies a condition work? So, fear, enfeeble, Evil Eye, the effects of dizzying colours, and stupidefy.

Two things seem a bit unclear. What does other means mean in the context of removing conditions. So, it seems obvious that conditions could be dispelled/cured by magic/medicine. What about sickened? Does vomiting count as other means?

It has to be a condition WITH A DURATION. Frightened and (usually) sickened don’t have fixed durations and don’t qualify. If it has a duration you’re extending but an end condition happens (like counteracted or a duration limited sicken ended by a vomit) it still ends.


Xenocrat wrote:
It has to be a condition WITH A DURATION. Frightened and (usually) sickened don’t have fixed durations and don’t qualify. If it has a duration you’re extending but an end condition happens (like counteracted or a duration limited sicken ended by a vomit) it still ends.

Many conditions don't have a duration but are applied by a spell with a duration, like Synesthesia. Would you forbid it on the Clumsy 3 condition from Synesthesia?


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The spell provides the duration. That’s usually the case, frightened, sickened, and most stunned values being the exceptions that spells do not give durations to an have their own rules for reducing the condition that don't involve duration. (Stunned 1 round can be sustained by the familiar, Stunned 1 or 3 cannot.)

As far as I can tell the only 1st level spells resentment works with are Enfeeblement and Dizzying Whatever successes.

Many conditions don't have a duration but are applied by a spell with a duration, like Synesthesia. Would you forbid it on the Clumsy 3 condition from Synesthesia?

Those conditions do have a duration - the one provided by the spell.

The real question is whether the Synesthesia effects that aren't Clumsy 3 are a condition that the resentment familiar can extend. The baseline condition rules and glossary don't mention the possibility of others being a "condition," but the introductory chapter section on condition states: "the rules for the basic conditions used in the game can be found in the Conditions Appendix at the back of this book."

I'd probably let anything negative done to a target that has a duration keep going. So not frightened or sickened (barring special cases from spells inflicting these that may put a duration on them in some way).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

When Ongoing Misery says "it doesn’t prevent conditions from being removed by other means", I don't think it means things like the countdown for frightened (that's clearly a duration that can be extended) so much as it means things like cleanse affliction, clear mind, sound body, or sure footing can still end an effect that has been extended.


Ravingdork wrote:
When Ongoing Misery says "it doesn’t prevent conditions from being removed by other means", I don't think it means things like the countdown for frightened (that's clearly a duration that can be extended) so much as it means things like cleanse affliction, clear mind, sound body, or sure footing can still end an effect that has been extended.

i think the wider audience does indeed accept the countdown to be included in the "other means", at least with the people i've spoken with and the various ytuber reveals interpetations.

in general, stuff that is removed by other means (stunned, frightened, sickened) rather than simply their duration running out, are not really affected by the familiar.

To put it in a different light:

it doesn't matter if you have "frightened 1 for 1 round" since at the end of your round, it will still tick down to frightened 0. Nothing in the resentment familiar ability forbids it from doing so (it lacks the language of "This condition value can’t be reduced below 1" that is ncessary and appears in every single effect that does this).

Quote:

, prolonging the duration

of any negative conditions affecting it by 1 round. This is
a curse effect. This prolongs only conditions with a timed
duration (such as “1 round” or “until the end of your next
turn”)

THAT SAID

if you get someone to critfail on Fear you can indeed prolong the Fleeing condition, which is simply nasty to do so... 2 rounds of fleeing, is 4 rounds out of combat...


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Time ticking down until something expires is the very definition of "duration."


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I can't really bring myself to believe that the developers would create an ability that worked with almost nothing.


Xenocrat wrote:
The spell provides the duration. That’s usually the case, frightened, sickened, and most stunned values being the exceptions that spells do not give durations to an have their own rules for reducing the condition that don't involve duration.

Frightened and Sickened are removed when the duration of the spell expires. It's especially true for the Resentment Witch because of Evil Eye: If you stop sustaining Evil Eye, the Sickened Condition is removed at the end of your turn. That's one of the basic uses of the ability to extend a duration: Evil Eye on one enemy while extending the duration of your previous Evil Eye.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The spell provides the duration. That’s usually the case, frightened, sickened, and most stunned values being the exceptions that spells do not give durations to an have their own rules for reducing the condition that don't involve duration.
Frightened and Sickened are removed when the duration of the spell expires. It's especially true for the Resentment Witch because of Evil Eye: If you stop sustaining Evil Eye, the Sickened Condition is removed at the end of your turn. That's one of the basic uses of the ability to extend a duration: Evil Eye on one enemy while extending the duration of your previous Evil Eye.

Are you sure this is the case?

So, Evil Eye causes sickened.

As a condition, sickened can only be reduced by spending an action and making a fortitude save.

Evil Eye complicates this in that while sustained Sickened can't be reduced by one.

So, Bandit falls fortitude save, is sickened 1. If the witch stops sustaining, does the condition end? I would think the sickened condition would just work normally and it would stick around until the Bandit is able to vomit and make his fortitude save. IF the witch was sustaining, no matter what the Bandit did, he could not reduce his sickened past one.

Or am I misunderstanding this?


Parry wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The spell provides the duration. That’s usually the case, frightened, sickened, and most stunned values being the exceptions that spells do not give durations to an have their own rules for reducing the condition that don't involve duration.
Frightened and Sickened are removed when the duration of the spell expires. It's especially true for the Resentment Witch because of Evil Eye: If you stop sustaining Evil Eye, the Sickened Condition is removed at the end of your turn. That's one of the basic uses of the ability to extend a duration: Evil Eye on one enemy while extending the duration of your previous Evil Eye.

Are you sure this is the case?

So, Evil Eye causes sickened.

As a condition, sickened can only be reduced by spending an action and making a fortitude save.

Evil Eye complicates this in that while sustained Sickened can't be reduced by one.

So, Bandit falls fortitude save, is sickened 1. If the witch stops sustaining, does the condition end? I would think the sickened condition would just work normally and it would stick around until the Bandit is able to vomit and make his fortitude save. IF the witch was sustaining, no matter what the Bandit did, he could not reduce his sickened past one.

Or am I misunderstanding this?

That's how I and the players in my table see it as well.

This is distinctively different than overwritting Dirge with another Composition (that was used as an example before) before in that case we have specific language saying that if you use a different composition all effects from other compositions end.

Hexes don't have that limitation and nothing in the Evil Eye description mentions the effect ending when you stop sustaining.


Parry wrote:
So, Bandit falls fortitude save, is sickened 1. If the witch stops sustaining, does the condition end?

"The duration of a spell is how long the spell effect lasts."

There are rules about ongoing effects, like the Deafened Condition from Sound Burst, but they need to have a duration higher than the spell duration.

Sickened doesn't have a duration on its own so there's no reason for it to last longer than Evil Eye. Also, Evil Eye is a sustained spell with for sole effect the Sickened condition it gives, that'd be strange to see its effect lasting even if you don't sustain the spell.


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SuperBidi wrote:
Parry wrote:
So, Bandit falls fortitude save, is sickened 1. If the witch stops sustaining, does the condition end?

"The duration of a spell is how long the spell effect lasts."

There are rules about ongoing effects, like the Deafened Condition from Sound Burst, but they need to have a duration higher than the spell duration.

Sickened doesn't have a duration on its own so there's no reason for it to last longer than Evil Eye. Also, Evil Eye is a sustained spell with for sole effect the Sickened condition it gives, that'd be strange to see its effect lasting even if you don't sustain the spell.

That's not the case though for conditions:

Quote:
Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical.

Sickened isn't given a specific duration in the spell entry. So it lasts as normal for Sickened.

It would need language like "Sickened as long as the effect lasts" somewhere in there for that to be the case.


shroudb wrote:

Sickened isn't given a specific duration in the spell entry. So it lasts as normal for Sickened.

It would need language like "Sickened as long as the effect lasts" somewhere in there for that to be the case.

Read Haste and come back to tell me that you are permanently Quickened.

You consider that because a condition has specific means of being removed it can't also have a duration, but there are multiple examples that contradict this reading. Invisibility Invisible Condition can be removed by a hostile action and has a 10-minute duration, Confusion Confused condition can be removed by taking damage and has a 1-minute duration, Ghosts Drained Touch inflict the Drained 1 condition for 1 day, Fear has a duration and only inflicts the Frightened condition, etc...

Conditions with a specific way of being removed can have a duration. You can be Sickened 1 for 1 round, the Destrachan proves it.

As Evil Eye has a duration and the sole effect of giving the Sickened condition it seems rather obvious that the Sickened condition lasts as long as you sustain Evil Eye.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sounds like a lose lose scenario. Either evil eye is okay, but incompatible with Ongoing Misery, or it's bad but compatible with Ongoing Misery.


Ravingdork wrote:
Sounds like a lose lose scenario. Either evil eye is okay, but incompatible with Ongoing Misery, or it's bad but compatible with Ongoing Misery.

I love it: everyone is screaming about the Resentment being too strong, and then all of a sudden it becomes bad. Isn't there a middle ground somewhere?

Also, Sickened for 1 action doesn't seem bad at all, it's on par with the competition. And it combines itself with Ongoing Misery so it works very well when you don't have other conditions to increase. It also gives a way to use the benefit of Ongoing Misery without having to rely on something else (even if it's not hard to inflict a condition as an Occult Witch, it's still not possible through at-will class abilities if it wasn't for Evil Eye).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Extending fleeing doesn't generally seem possible because an enemy that flees for one round will likely be more than 15 feet from your familiar. Maybe if you give your familiar fast movement and flier, it could keep up with something with 25 foot speed.

Ravingdork wrote:
I can't really bring myself to believe that the developers would create an ability that worked with almost nothing.

It is still an extremely powerful ability despite that, at least if you still have Synesthesia in your game. It really starts to pay off when Slow enters the picture. The Resentment also has a particularly powerful hex cantrip which can help in the meantime. And there are conditions your allies can apply as well, like the off guard of a bottled lightning or the clumsy of Tempest Surge. And I think abilities which shine most with party coordination are pretty consistent with PF2 design.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Extending fleeing doesn't generally seem possible because an enemy that flees for one round will likely be more than 15 feet from your familiar. Maybe if you give your familiar fast movement and flier, it could keep up with something with 25 foot speed.

You can extend it before the enemy moves. Fear and if the enemy critically fails their save => Hex to increase Fleeing to 2 rounds.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Extending fleeing doesn't generally seem possible because an enemy that flees for one round will likely be more than 15 feet from your familiar. Maybe if you give your familiar fast movement and flier, it could keep up with something with 25 foot speed.
You can extend it before the enemy moves. Fear and if the enemy critically fails their save => Hex to increase Fleeing to 2 rounds.

Oof, that probably works.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It seems there are several different opinions floating about in this thread on whether evil eye and fear are valid options for Ongoing Misery.

SuperBidi wrote:
Isn't there a middle ground somewhere?

What's a "middle ground?" ;P


Captain Morgan wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Extending fleeing doesn't generally seem possible because an enemy that flees for one round will likely be more than 15 feet from your familiar. Maybe if you give your familiar fast movement and flier, it could keep up with something with 25 foot speed.
You can extend it before the enemy moves. Fear and if the enemy critically fails their save => Hex to increase Fleeing to 2 rounds.
Oof, that probably works.

But I love the idea of sending a familiar after the fleeing enemy, to keep scaring them!

Dark Archive

shroudb wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
When Ongoing Misery says "it doesn’t prevent conditions from being removed by other means", I don't think it means things like the countdown for frightened (that's clearly a duration that can be extended) so much as it means things like cleanse affliction, clear mind, sound body, or sure footing can still end an effect that has been extended.
i think the wider audience does indeed accept the countdown to be included in the "other means",

After thinking about it, I don't feel that this can be correct.

Quote:

Familiar of Ongoing Misery

Your familiar seems hostile to all creatures other than you, hissing at them if they get too near.

When you Cast or Sustain a hex, your familiar can curse a creature within 15 feet of it, prolonging the duration of any negative conditions affecting it by 1 round.

This is a curse effect.

This prolongs only conditions with a timed duration (such as “1 round” or “until the end of your next turn”) and doesn’t prevent conditions from being removed by other means

So lets break it down.

"Other Means", other, in this sentence is creating a distinction between the subject of the preceding sentence. That sentence is discussing the duration of the effect. The effect is prolonging the duration of effect by 1 round.

If it was the intention that the tick-down duration of abilites was included as a source to be included in other means, then this ability, as written makes no sense.

The phrase "any negative conditions affecting it" is pretty straight forward, its not looking at the source of the effect or way it governs duration or how the effect works. It looks for effects with a duration, then adds 1 to that duration.

Including the natural duration of the effect as a means of removing the effect which is "other" than its duration would mean that this ability just wouldn't work on its face.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Old_Man_Robot wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
When Ongoing Misery says "it doesn’t prevent conditions from being removed by other means", I don't think it means things like the countdown for frightened (that's clearly a duration that can be extended) so much as it means things like cleanse affliction, clear mind, sound body, or sure footing can still end an effect that has been extended.
i think the wider audience does indeed accept the countdown to be included in the "other means",

After thinking about it, I don't feel that this can be correct.

Quote:

Familiar of Ongoing Misery

Your familiar seems hostile to all creatures other than you, hissing at them if they get too near.

When you Cast or Sustain a hex, your familiar can curse a creature within 15 feet of it, prolonging the duration of any negative conditions affecting it by 1 round.

This is a curse effect.

This prolongs only conditions with a timed duration (such as “1 round” or “until the end of your next turn”) and doesn’t prevent conditions from being removed by other means

So lets break it down.

"Other Means", other, in this sentence is creating a distinction between the subject of the preceding sentence. That sentence is discussing the duration of the effect. The effect is prolonging the duration of effect by 1 round.

If it was the intention that the tick-down duration of abilites was included as a source to be included in other means, then this ability, as written makes no sense.

The phrase "any negative conditions affecting it" is pretty straight forward, its not looking at the source of the effect or way it governs duration or how the effect works. It looks for effects with a duration, then adds 1 to that duration.

Including the natural duration of the effect as a means of removing the effect which is "other" than its duration would mean that this ability just wouldn't work on its face.

Even if you're right, that reading still wouldn't apply to sickened which has no duration. It lasts until you reach. Frightened you could at least argue has a duration, even though it is not technically linked to rounds but turns passing for the creature.

(I'll note you wouldn't necessarily want to remove the retching possibility for monsters because they waste actions on the attempt. I wouldn't expect my GM to do that if Ongoing Misery prevented it doing anything.)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I suppose one could argue that Sickened does have a duration and that said duration is "indefinite." That would be a rather moot point though as you can't extend an indefinite duration any more than you can no duration.

Unless someone cares to argue that Ongoing Misery prevents the positive effects of retching...

Edit: As has been said previously, Sickened effects that also have a defined duration should be susceptible to Ongoing Misery. This still would not prevent retching though. (Unlike Frightened which has an internal countdown of duration, I believe that someone spending an action to retch to be an external factor.)

Dark Archive

Captain Morgan wrote:

Even if you're right, that reading still wouldn't apply to sickened which has no duration. It lasts until you reach

This is why I think everything about your reading doesn't make sense. Sickened does have a duration, it gets that duration from the source or effect that applied it.

If a source of Sickened doesn't grant it a duration, then it would be ineligible for Ongoing Misery.

Attempting to divorce the condition from the thing that applied it makes no sense in this context.


Ravingdork wrote:
What's a "middle ground?" ;P

Well, flat metal surfaces for cooking are pretty robust, but I imagine some of the smaller portable ones for pancakes might be less so. If a bunch of people got rid of them at once, I guess you could get a pile of them?

Oh, you said "middle ground", not "griddle mound". Yeah, I dunno either. Isn't that the name of Tolkien's homebrew setting?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
QuidEst wrote:
Oh, you said "middle ground", not "griddle mound". Yeah, I dunno either. Isn't that the name of Tolkien's homebrew setting?

LOL.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Old_Man_Robot wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:

Even if you're right, that reading still wouldn't apply to sickened which has no duration. It lasts until you reach

This is why I think everything about your reading doesn't make sense. Sickened does have a duration, it gets that duration from the source or effect that applied it.

If a source of Sickened doesn't grant it a duration, then it would be ineligible for Ongoing Misery.

Attempting to divorce the condition from the thing that applied it makes no sense in this context.

What sickened condition has a duration listed in the specific ability? The vast majority don't. There's the occasional interwoven debuffs, like Phantom Pain's persistent damage ending when the sickened condition leaves.

Even the sickened from evil eye doesn't have a duration-- the spell has a clause that prevent the condition from being removed while the spell is sustained, but Ongoing Misery wouldn't extend that because that's the spell, not the condition.

If you can find a sickened condition with a duration, then sure, you can maybe apply it there. But the condition does not have a duration by default.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What makes you think that the power of the evil eye hex that prevents one from retching themselves well isn't in itself a condition, Captain Morgan?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
What makes you think that the power of the evil eye hex that prevents one from retching themselves well isn't in itself a condition, Captain Morgan?

Because conditions is a specific rules term. If it isn't listed on page 427 it isn't a condition. If it was meant to apply to a broader swath of abilities it woul have used broader language, like negative effects.

Also, add Blindness to the list of spells you can use this with. I guess deafness as well, though I'm not sure why you'd bother with that spell to begin with.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Oh dang, I think the grapple action's grabbed condition counts. Enemies can still escape but it seems like it would save your ally from needing to reapply it by RAW. That seems wonky.

Other things that work:

The failure condition of Paralyze. (Which also makes it better than the enemy critically failing? Weird.)

The stupified condition from Evangelize.

The confused condition from Disturbing Knowledge.

Everything but stunned from color spray.

Chroma leech's success.

Spiritual Anamanesis success.

Warp mind's success might apply.

Right now the only thing I'm hazy on is whether it prevents frightened from decreasing.


Frightened ticking down is definitely not prevented by this. The value of the condition reduces on its own, that's separate from duration. Look at Dirge of Doom and friends.

If a spell said a creature was Enfeebled 3, but reduced this Enfeebled at the end of its turn, this wouldn't be able to extend that either (it could extend the duration of the effect, but it wouldn't remove the clause saying Enfeebled is ticking down, and a condition with a value of 0 is cleared by the rules)


Captain Morgan wrote:
What sickened condition has a duration listed in the specific ability?

Just for information, the Destachan inflicts Sickened 1 for 1 round.

Captain Morgan wrote:
Even if you're right, that reading still wouldn't apply to sickened which has no duration.

Most conditions don't have a duration. Haste gives the Quickened condition without a duration and I think you should be able to extend it beyond 1 minute (it's actually a very strong use of Ongoing Misery, buff an ally and extends the Quickened condition every round until you finally meet the enemies).

You should be able to extend a condition without a duration that has been applied by a spell with a duration. The condition just lasts longer than the spell.

Captain Morgan wrote:
But the condition does not have a duration by default.

But Evil Eye inflicts the Sickened condition until you stop Sustaining it. You should be able to extend it beyond Evil Eye's duration. It's in my opinion the whole reason Evil Eye has been moved from Frightened to Sickened: for Ongoing Misery to apply to it.

And I'm with Dubious Scholar: You can't prevent Frightened from ticking down more than you can prevent Confused from being removed by damage or Invisible from being removed by a hostile action. Allowing the condition to last beyond that would lead to too many shenanigans.


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SuperBidi wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
What sickened condition has a duration listed in the specific ability?

Just for information, the Destachan inflicts Sickened 1 for 1 round.

Captain Morgan wrote:
Even if you're right, that reading still wouldn't apply to sickened which has no duration.

Most conditions don't have a duration. Haste gives the Quickened condition without a duration and I think you should be able to extend it beyond 1 minute (it's actually a very strong use of Ongoing Misery, buff an ally and extends the Quickened condition every round until you finally meet the enemies).

You should be able to extend a condition without a duration that has been applied by a spell with a duration. The condition just lasts longer than the spell.

Captain Morgan wrote:
But the condition does not have a duration by default.

But Evil Eye inflicts the Sickened condition until you stop Sustaining it. You should be able to extend it beyond Evil Eye's duration. It's in my opinion the whole reason Evil Eye has been moved from Frightened to Sickened: for Ongoing Misery to apply to it.

And I'm with Dubious Scholar: You can't prevent Frightened from ticking down more than you can prevent Confused from being removed by damage or Invisible from being removed by a hostile action. Allowing the condition to last beyond that would lead to too many shenanigans.

Nowhere in the spell is that even implied.

Evil eye inflicts sickened and you can't reduce it as long as it's sustained.

Sickened still has no duration to increase it.

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