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Core Rulebook, page 100 wrote:
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.

Maybe this is common knowledge to most but it caught me off guard. Granted, I've only been playing for a year and a half or so, but I had always assumed that in general a knowledge check could never be made untrained (unless you had a feat/trait/class feature that allowed you to do so).

turns out, if the knowledge check DC is 10 or lower, training isn't an issue.


Also, With soldier's onslaught and a grenade launcher/extra arm you could throw /launch 3 during a full attack


Sliska Zafir wrote:
VampByDay wrote:
I was wondering if a small-sized technomancer can fabricate a goblin junk-cycle, as it is technically "Medium sized."
The item you can create is not based on your own size, the limit is Medium.

I'm going to revive this because I was wondering the same thing. The junk cycle, at a glance, seems like it would be allowed. It's size is medium, and it doesn't use charges. it is not technically a weapon nor is it armor.

The junk cycle isn't specifically on the technological items list, but the fabricate tech magic hack doesn't explicitly say it has to be from the technological item list, just that it has to be a "technological item", and i can see people arguing that "technological item" was being used as a general term here. That argument feels a little flimsy to me, though.

More importantly, while not *technically* a weapon, the junk cycle can do damage, and worse yet you could purposely damage the bike and cause it to explode using it's unstable engine ability. that seems like a use that could easily be abused so I'd vote no on the junk cycle and fabricate tech (as cool as I think it would be to summon a motorcycle).


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Kevin Willis wrote:
slugworth wrote:

Hey all,

I just GMed my very first society game yesterday. Organized play is new to my group of friends, and we were confused on a few issues.

1) Credit rewards: at the end of a the mission the chronicle sheet tells you the maximum credits for the scenario. I understand that receiving the full amount is contingent upon completing all the quests, etc. I originally assumed that full amount went to each player, but a friend of mine thought that the amount (in the commencement it is like 750) was split among the group.

2) chronicle sheet errors: Being new, we have made a few accounting errors over the course of the 3 or 4 scenarios we have ran (for instance, trying to figure out how much credits we receive). I am assuming best practice is for the GM to cross out the mistake and initial the new value. It gets a little messy when a mistake has to be changed across multiple sheets. Does anybody have recommendations for handling this? Is it not such a big deal?

3) GM rewards: just to clarify, the GM receives the same credit reward as the party, and also gains access to items on the chronicle sheet, can make a dayjob check, etc.?

1. Each player gets that amount. Not split.

2. I normally correct errors on the NEXT chronicle. Any changes to gear, money, etc. are done before the game and then list them all along with the explicit reason for the error (“Added 35 credits. Math error in gear bought (see chronicle #5).”) on the chronicle.

3. Yes. Page 15-16 of the SFS Guide.

ah thanks! That is a much better method than crossing out every entry on every chronicle sheet!


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Hey all,

I just GMed my very first society game yesterday. Organized play is new to my group of friends, and we were confused on a few issues.

1) Credit rewards: at the end of a the mission the chronicle sheet tells you the maximum credits for the scenario. I understand that receiving the full amount is contingent upon completing all the quests, etc. I originally assumed that full amount went to each player, but a friend of mine thought that the amount (in the commencement it is like 750) was split among the group.

2) chronicle sheet errors: Being new, we have made a few accounting errors over the course of the 3 or 4 scenarios we have ran (for instance, trying to figure out how much credits we receive). I am assuming best practice is for the GM to cross out the mistake and initial the new value. It gets a little messy when a mistake has to be changed across multiple sheets. Does anybody have recommendations for handling this? Is it not such a big deal?

3) GM rewards: just to clarify, the GM receives the same credit reward as the party, and also gains access to items on the chronicle sheet, can make a dayjob check, etc.?


andreww wrote:

I would also point out some other limitations:

1. You don't get to start the scenario with anything bound, you must do so after it begins which will generally mean after the briefing. This means you need the spell slots devoted to binding/magic circle/dimensional anchor as well as any spells you might want to use to compel the bound creature.

2. The GM is entirely within their rights to limit both the amount of time they have to spend dealing with the binding process and the number of creatures you are able to bind at any one time.

3. Bringing along a bunch of evil outsiders is likely to cause significant issues in any number of scenarios.

Oh I had no illusions about getting a free bound servant during each scenario, and I understand that this spell, more so than many, is liable to be limited by the GM.

I figured if I actually went through the process, I'd be playing a spontaneous caster who had those spells ready anyway. Either that, or as a wizard I'd commit myself to the dimensional anchor and magic circle since they have a bit more general utility, and use a bonded object to cast the binding rather than waste a higher level slot, and only if I thought it was actually worthwhile to do so. Rather than always attempting to use the spell before a mission, I was thinking I would just be ready to bind something mid-mission as the situation called for it. No viable scouts in the group? Call an accuser devil. Need a meatshield? Call a bearded devil or two.

A normal summoned (i.e. not called) creature only lasts minutes per level at best as far as I know, so there is some justification for binding based on the fact that they could last days with a single casting of the spell. A sorcerer 10/diabolist 2 with augmented calling could easily have +10 to the charisma check against devils before self-buffs (eagles splendor + circlet of persuasion get you up to +15), so (theoretically) a bearded devil shouldn't be difficult to coerce within a few minutes (of real time) providing my GM was on board with the plan, and it would only take a little over 20 minutes in-game time if my spellcraft was sufficiently high that I could rush the magic circle. That doesn't sound like an unreasonable level of preparation before say, going down the stairs to the next level of a dungeon. I realize it isn't 100% practical, but it did seem like it would be loads of fun and would offer some unique opportunities for role play.

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
slugworth wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
Additional Resources on Ultimate Magic wrote:
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.

But.... my well-crafted argument!

Well that is a little disappointing. I guess I'll think of something else.

Yeah, but from a role playing stance, you can still act as if True Names have power.

True, but I get the feeling that role playing a class feature isn't as satisfying as actually having the class feature :)


DesolateHarmony wrote:

Sorry. Hope you can find something you really like!

But, do always check Additional Resources for questions like this.

I did, but I wasn't as diligent as I could have been: I basically checked everything "downstream" of the true name research stuff (diabolist, feats and traits) and once I determined that they were legal, I just assumed the actual research aspect of true names was as well. It seems like a bit of an oversight to include diabolist as a prestige class and not modify the class features that deal exclusively with true names. Right now it seems utterly worthless to go beyond 7 levels into diabolist, unless you are really jazzed about using hellfire ray as an SLA.

Definitely never noticed the Sacred Servant archetype before, but planar ally always felt a little stale compared to the binding spells to me, hence my ongoing mini-obsession. Something about the relative complexity of researching the name, not even knowing if it is correct, than drawing the binding circle inscribed with the true name, casting the dimensional anchor, and all the myriad creative precautions you would have to take to safeguard yourself against the outsiders (and devious DMs). it all seemed like such great fun versus: "summon the dude. pay the dude."

If i did follow through on the binding idea, I'd definitely print out cards for the devils, and discuss how I think the spell would work within the session, like how many devils might be bound and when, how I would try to negotiate with them, and how to keep it fun for the table.

However, not being able to use true names as a bargaining chip in the negotiations makes the spell feel more cumbersome and less fun to utilize in PFS, since it removes the best non-violent (if not morally dubious) means of coercing a devil into service.


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DesolateHarmony wrote:
Additional Resources on Ultimate Magic wrote:
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.

But.... my well-crafted argument!

Well that is a little disappointing. I guess I'll think of something else.


Hello!

so I am slightly new to PFS and still trying to figure out the rules and what I want to make as my first character. One concept I have been wanting to try for quite some time is the arcane caster that prestiges into diabolist.

before continuing, this isn't a question about the true name feat, which I realize is not legal for PFS play. I am also not asking about the mechanics of the binding spell itself, but more so the mechanics of the spell within the context of PFS play, and how that would influence some character creation choices.

Also, anybody who has used the spell in PFS play and could tell me how it went, that would be pretty cool too. Like, was it fun? Did the group enjoy it, or did it bog down play? Basically, even if I am a reasonable and conscientious adult, will I be annoying?

Aside from good gaming citizenship, the big thing I am wondering about with planar binding is researching true names:

True names:

To discover a single outsider’s true name, a spellcaster
must spend at least a month in a library or on a quest of
discovery to uncover occult mysteries and riddles hidden
in the pages of books, scrolls, and glyphs written millennia
ago, buried in ancient temples or found among the ravings
of madmen’s spellbooks. At the end of this month, the GM
makes a Knowledge (planes) check for the character. The
DC is 10 + the creature’s Hit Dice.
The GM can increase
the DC by +2, +5, or even +10, based on the power of the
outsider or the circumstances of the true name search. A
failure by 5 or more turns up false information that may
expose researchers to unexpected dangers.
For most outer-planar outsiders, knowledge of the
creature’s true name is a powerful weapon. In summoning,
if the name is spoken correctly (requiring knowledge of at
least one of the outsider’s languages,
or a Linguistics skill
check with a DC equal to 10 + the creature’s Hit Dice), the
target takes a –5 penalty on the Will save to resist being
conjured, and if its name is inscribed in the protective
magic circle, the outsider takes a –5 penalty on all checks to
escape or breach that circle. (from ultimate magic)

TL;DR: discovering an outsider's true name takes at least a month of research in a library. There are some more rules in the Book of the Damned Vol. I, but I don't think those rules are legal for PFS play. In either case, a month of research in a libracy makes it sound like trying to discover true names may be too cumbersome to use in PFS play. then I saw this trait:

True Name Caller:
Benefit Choose a plane other than the Material Plane. When attempting to discover the true name of an outsider from the chosen plane, you halve the amount of research time required and gain a +4 trait bonus on the Knowledge (planes) check made to learn the outsider’s name. (from Demon Hunter's handbook)

This trait reduces the amount of research time by half, which starts to sound reasonable. But is it enough?

It seems to me that with DM consent, and providing that the group is in a settlement with an appropriately equipped library, that my character could spend two weeks prior to the actual quest performing the necessary research on true names. This use of time seems similar to another character using two weeks to train an animal companion or pet two new tricks using the handle animal skill, since each trick takes a week of training. If the Knowledge: Planes check is successful and my character discovers the true name of some outsider, following the example of handle animal, this new information would be noted as a condition gained in my chronicle sheet.

As far as I can tell from what I read about handle animal, those conditions persist, and this means my character would be able to apply the true name penalties to the named outsider on subsequent attempts to bind it at different sessions (until it dies), just as a pet retains knowledge of its trick. Once the outsider dies (or somehow escapes this annoying situation), the true name would be marked as a condition lost on my chronicle sheet, much as if it were a forgotten trick.

Unless I am way off base and you have to re-teach pets tricks each game, which sounds kind of wack but I assume there must have been a reason if that is the case.

Also, I should mention: I don't mean to imply that continued knowledge of the true name would mean you could render outsiders into permanent slaves, just that you could apply the associated debuffs to them in binding using the mechanisms designed for that purpose. This seems particularly important for wizards, since their charisma score tends to be on the low side anyway. Also, I am not the kind of person who wants to summon 15 devils to bog down gameplay.

Also, the capstone to the diabolist prestige class is entirely dependent on knowing a devil's true name.

Master Conjurer:
At 10th level, when a diabolist calls a devil whose name she knows, she may cast the calling spell as a standard action and bargain with it as a move action. She adds half her Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate modifier on the bargaining Charisma check (if any).

So, long story short: is it worth it to invest in feats (skill focus (knowledge: planes, etc), traits, and a prestige class that will make my character better at discovering and using true names, or is this a mechanic that I will likely not get much opportunity to use? I think I have made a decent argument for why it should work, but I am also pretty biased since I really want to bind some dang devils.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
slugworth wrote:


It seems like you would still get the traits since they aren't based on character advancement though, right? Like dark vision, class skills, martial weapon proficiency.

As per the description, it doesn't change your race, just changes your creature type. so if you had racial HD, that BAB and such would be affected, but it won't change your racial traits (like orc ferocity or weapon familiarity).

Oh, I think the entry here is better for the damnation feats. It's a pretty interesting feat line, but potentially very debilitating.

yeah i realize it's a bit risky, but it seemed like fun, and I was going to use it on arcanist that will be using planar binding and eventually will prestige into diabolist, so I can get the most bang for my evil spells. if some vengeful devil murders me and I can't come back, I will at least have died a worthy death.

I'm not 100% sold on the outsider traits bit yet, though. It seems like if your type changes to outsider, you would get the traits of an outsider. I can think of at least one precedent for this, which is the capstone for the knight of the sepulcher archetype anti paladin, although that example is a bit more explicit:

knight of the sepulcher wrote:
At 20th level, a knight of the sepulcher joins the ranks of the undead. His DR increases to 10/bludgeoning and good. His type changes to undead, and he acquires all undead traits. Although immune to disease, he can still carry and spread diseases with the antipaladin’s plague bringer ability. The undying champion no longer has a Constitution score. He uses his Charisma score for calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special abilities that rely on Constitution.


Saethori wrote:

Yes and no.

Whatever creature type you had before is replaced with being an outsider, and you gain all the associated changes as you mentioned, including hit dice, BAB, and skills per hit die.

However, none of this impacts class levels, which is what the majority of PCs are going to have. A human has zero racial hit dice, so none of these are changed. You don't have any 'levels' in human, they're all class levels instead.

An awakened fox, in contrast, has three racial hit dice (one naturally, two granted to it from being awakened), and then any number of class levels beyond that. If he sold his soul and became an outsider, those three racial hit dice would change, but none of his class levels would.

ah, I had forgotten about racial hit dice! thanks for the clarification.

It seems like you would still get the traits since they aren't based on character advancement though, right? Like dark vision, class skills, martial weapon proficiency.


So I have a pretty straightforward question: what happens when you transform into an outsider?

when you take the fourth and final damnation feat, fiendskin states the following:

fiendskin entry wrote:

"Your creature type changes to outsider (native). Additionally, choose one energy type to which your patron’s outsider subtype grants immunity or resistance. You gain immunity to that energy type."

I almost assumed it was flavor, but that term outsider directly links to this information:

outsider entry wrote:

Anoutsider has the following features.

d10 Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Two good saving throws, usually Reflex and Will.
Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature’s theme.
Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

so let's say a wizard summons a demon and convinces it to be their patron, then they take these feats. does the wizard recalculate their BAB and hitdice to reflect the change? skills too? is it all retroactive?


Thanks for the quick reply, and the link! I'll probably just stick with my original backstory and save agent of the grave for a future character :)


Hi all,

I have a question that is mostly a concern from a roleplay standpoint:

TL;DR:

Is undead sub-domain sufficient for a deity's worship to count as an "undead worshipping cult"

Long version:

Basically, I just started playing a necromancer wizard in an evil campaign and was hoping to prestige into "agent of the grave". the campaign is following the Hell's Vengeance adventure path, and as this adventure path is set in Cheliax, I was hoping to have him worship one of the archdevils. One of the requirements for Agent of the Grave is that the character be part of an "undead worshipping cult", and I had settled on Baalzebul since undead is listed as one of his subdomains. I am starting to wonder if I have misterpreted what actually constitutes an undead worshipping cult.

The players guide for hell's vengeance says that the whispering way, which is usually associated with Urgathoa, doesn't play a role in the adventure path but is still an appropriate prestige class choice for the campaign. Under normal circumstances I might just retcon my worship to her (i only just hit lvl 2), but I've grown pretty fond of the backstory I've developed that works better with Baalzebul and was hoping the choice was still appropriate