so I am slightly new to PFS and still trying to figure out the rules and what I want to make as my first character. One concept I have been wanting to try for quite some time is the arcane caster that prestiges into diabolist.
before continuing, this isn't a question about the true name feat, which I realize is not legal for PFS play. I am also not asking about the mechanics of the binding spell itself, but more so the mechanics of the spell within the context of PFS play, and how that would influence some character creation choices.
Also, anybody who has used the spell in PFS play and could tell me how it went, that would be pretty cool too. Like, was it fun? Did the group enjoy it, or did it bog down play? Basically, even if I am a reasonable and conscientious adult, will I be annoying?
Aside from good gaming citizenship, the big thing I am wondering about with planar binding is researching true names:
True names:
To discover a single outsider’s true name, a spellcaster
must spend at least a month in a library or on a quest of
discovery to uncover occult mysteries and riddles hidden
in the pages of books, scrolls, and glyphs written millennia
ago, buried in ancient temples or found among the ravings
of madmen’s spellbooks. At the end of this month, the GM
makes a Knowledge (planes) check for the character. The
DC is 10 + the creature’s Hit Dice. The GM can increase
the DC by +2, +5, or even +10, based on the power of the
outsider or the circumstances of the true name search. A
failure by 5 or more turns up false information that may
expose researchers to unexpected dangers.
For most outer-planar outsiders, knowledge of the
creature’s true name is a powerful weapon. In summoning,
if the name is spoken correctly (requiring knowledge of at
least one of the outsider’s languages, or a Linguistics skill
check with a DC equal to 10 + the creature’s Hit Dice), the
target takes a –5 penalty on the Will save to resist being
conjured, and if its name is inscribed in the protective
magic circle, the outsider takes a –5 penalty on all checks to
escape or breach that circle. (from ultimate magic)
TL;DR: discovering an outsider's true name takes at least a month of research in a library. There are some more rules in the Book of the Damned Vol. I, but I don't think those rules are legal for PFS play. In either case, a month of research in a libracy makes it sound like trying to discover true names may be too cumbersome to use in PFS play. then I saw this trait:
True Name Caller:
Benefit Choose a plane other than the Material Plane. When attempting to discover the true name of an outsider from the chosen plane, you halve the amount of research time required and gain a +4 trait bonus on the Knowledge (planes) check made to learn the outsider’s name. (from Demon Hunter's handbook)
This trait reduces the amount of research time by half, which starts to sound reasonable. But is it enough?
It seems to me that with DM consent, and providing that the group is in a settlement with an appropriately equipped library, that my character could spend two weeks prior to the actual quest performing the necessary research on true names. This use of time seems similar to another character using two weeks to train an animal companion or pet two new tricks using the handle animal skill, since each trick takes a week of training. If the Knowledge: Planes check is successful and my character discovers the true name of some outsider, following the example of handle animal, this new information would be noted as a condition gained in my chronicle sheet.
As far as I can tell from what I read about handle animal, those conditions persist, and this means my character would be able to apply the true name penalties to the named outsider on subsequent attempts to bind it at different sessions (until it dies), just as a pet retains knowledge of its trick. Once the outsider dies (or somehow escapes this annoying situation), the true name would be marked as a condition lost on my chronicle sheet, much as if it were a forgotten trick.
Unless I am way off base and you have to re-teach pets tricks each game, which sounds kind of wack but I assume there must have been a reason if that is the case.
Also, I should mention: I don't mean to imply that continued knowledge of the true name would mean you could render outsiders into permanent slaves, just that you could apply the associated debuffs to them in binding using the mechanisms designed for that purpose. This seems particularly important for wizards, since their charisma score tends to be on the low side anyway. Also, I am not the kind of person who wants to summon 15 devils to bog down gameplay.
Also, the capstone to the diabolist prestige class is entirely dependent on knowing a devil's true name.
Master Conjurer:
At 10th level, when a diabolist calls a devil whose name she knows, she may cast the calling spell as a standard action and bargain with it as a move action. She adds half her Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate modifier on the bargaining Charisma check (if any).
So, long story short: is it worth it to invest in feats (skill focus (knowledge: planes, etc), traits, and a prestige class that will make my character better at discovering and using true names, or is this a mechanic that I will likely not get much opportunity to use? I think I have made a decent argument for why it should work, but I am also pretty biased since I really want to bind some dang devils.
BUT! Planar Binding can still be discussed. I forget which Archetype it is, but there's a way to obtain Planar Binding as an SLA that explicitly doesn't require any payment, thus making it more feasible for PFS play.
The problem is that, without any further guidance from Campaign Leadership, this does leave the whole selection process up to the GM. If you plan on using Planar Binding regularly, I'd suggest creating a spreadsheet that maybe lists a few options for the GM to choose from to help streamline the process.
(But also be clear that your list isn't everything available)
BUT! Planar Binding can still be discussed. I forget which Archetype it is, but there's a way to obtain Planar Binding as an SLA that explicitly doesn't require any payment, thus making it more feasible for PFS play.
I think you're thinking of Planar Ally. Planar Binding has no material component.
I'd like an answer to this, too. My Wizard was toying with the idea of using Contact Other Plane repeatedly to get a high-confidence name for a Wish-granting outsider that would accept "research time" as payment for services rendered.
Sorry. Hope you can find something you really like!
But, do always check Additional Resources for questions like this.
I did, but I wasn't as diligent as I could have been: I basically checked everything "downstream" of the true name research stuff (diabolist, feats and traits) and once I determined that they were legal, I just assumed the actual research aspect of true names was as well. It seems like a bit of an oversight to include diabolist as a prestige class and not modify the class features that deal exclusively with true names. Right now it seems utterly worthless to go beyond 7 levels into diabolist, unless you are really jazzed about using hellfire ray as an SLA.
Definitely never noticed the Sacred Servant archetype before, but planar ally always felt a little stale compared to the binding spells to me, hence my ongoing mini-obsession. Something about the relative complexity of researching the name, not even knowing if it is correct, than drawing the binding circle inscribed with the true name, casting the dimensional anchor, and all the myriad creative precautions you would have to take to safeguard yourself against the outsiders (and devious DMs). it all seemed like such great fun versus: "summon the dude. pay the dude."
If i did follow through on the binding idea, I'd definitely print out cards for the devils, and discuss how I think the spell would work within the session, like how many devils might be bound and when, how I would try to negotiate with them, and how to keep it fun for the table.
However, not being able to use true names as a bargaining chip in the negotiations makes the spell feel more cumbersome and less fun to utilize in PFS, since it removes the best non-violent (if not morally dubious) means of coercing a devil into service.
1. You don't get to start the scenario with anything bound, you must do so after it begins which will generally mean after the briefing. This means you need the spell slots devoted to binding/magic circle/dimensional anchor as well as any spells you might want to use to compel the bound creature.
2. The GM is entirely within their rights to limit both the amount of time they have to spend dealing with the binding process and the number of creatures you are able to bind at any one time.
3. Bringing along a bunch of evil outsiders is likely to cause significant issues in any number of scenarios.
1. You don't get to start the scenario with anything bound, you must do so after it begins which will generally mean after the briefing. This means you need the spell slots devoted to binding/magic circle/dimensional anchor as well as any spells you might want to use to compel the bound creature.
2. The GM is entirely within their rights to limit both the amount of time they have to spend dealing with the binding process and the number of creatures you are able to bind at any one time.
3. Bringing along a bunch of evil outsiders is likely to cause significant issues in any number of scenarios.
Oh I had no illusions about getting a free bound servant during each scenario, and I understand that this spell, more so than many, is liable to be limited by the GM.
I figured if I actually went through the process, I'd be playing a spontaneous caster who had those spells ready anyway. Either that, or as a wizard I'd commit myself to the dimensional anchor and magic circle since they have a bit more general utility, and use a bonded object to cast the binding rather than waste a higher level slot, and only if I thought it was actually worthwhile to do so. Rather than always attempting to use the spell before a mission, I was thinking I would just be ready to bind something mid-mission as the situation called for it. No viable scouts in the group? Call an accuser devil. Need a meatshield? Call a bearded devil or two.
A normal summoned (i.e. not called) creature only lasts minutes per level at best as far as I know, so there is some justification for binding based on the fact that they could last days with a single casting of the spell. A sorcerer 10/diabolist 2 with augmented calling could easily have +10 to the charisma check against devils before self-buffs (eagles splendor + circlet of persuasion get you up to +15), so (theoretically) a bearded devil shouldn't be difficult to coerce within a few minutes (of real time) providing my GM was on board with the plan, and it would only take a little over 20 minutes in-game time if my spellcraft was sufficiently high that I could rush the magic circle. That doesn't sound like an unreasonable level of preparation before say, going down the stairs to the next level of a dungeon. I realize it isn't 100% practical, but it did seem like it would be loads of fun and would offer some unique opportunities for role play.
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
slugworth wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
Additional Resources on Ultimate Magic wrote:
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.
But.... my well-crafted argument!
Well that is a little disappointing. I guess I'll think of something else.
Yeah, but from a role playing stance, you can still act as if True Names have power.
True, but I get the feeling that role playing a class feature isn't as satisfying as actually having the class feature :)
Sorry, too long to quote my bit. The roleplaying is fun. Can always substitute Bluff for the knowledge check, too, since the name has no mechanical benefit.
