Rules nobody seems to know about?


Rules Questions


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My group got the magic armor/weapon resizing exception wrong for years. What weird rules did you later find out you'd been doing wrong?


Here's one I didn't get wrong but find A LOT of people don't know about it. Basically it goes, "Things that boost your touch AC also boost your CMD"

Grand Lodge

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Dispel magic works much better if you know what spell you're targeting. DC of the spell rather than 11+CL.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Here's one I didn't get wrong but find A LOT of people don't know about it. Basically it goes, "Things that boost your touch AC also boost your CMD"

IF true, Monks get an extra CMD boost since they add to CMD already. At 4th, they get +1 AC and +1 CMD. Does this mean +2 CMD since the adding to AC adds to CMD already?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Same source, wouldn't stack.


Starbuck_II wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Here's one I didn't get wrong but find A LOT of people don't know about it. Basically it goes, "Things that boost your touch AC also boost your CMD"
IF true, Monks get an extra CMD boost since they add to CMD already. At 4th, they get +1 AC and +1 CMD. Does this mean +2 CMD since the adding to AC adds to CMD already?
It is true,
Core_Rulebook" wrote:
A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to it's CMD.

You don't add it twice, it just tells you that so you don't forget to add it to both.

I had an argument with my GM because he couldn't understand why my CMD and CMB were so high, and when I told him I was adding this stuff he didn't believe that you were supposed to. I convinced him.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Starbuck_II wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Here's one I didn't get wrong but find A LOT of people don't know about it. Basically it goes, "Things that boost your touch AC also boost your CMD"
IF true, Monks get an extra CMD boost since they add to CMD already. At 4th, they get +1 AC and +1 CMD. Does this mean +2 CMD since the adding to AC adds to CMD already?

Starbuck was summarizing and not actually stating the rule there. The actual rules for calculating CMD give a bunch of AC bonus types that are factored into CMD as well. Since the monk level bonus to AC is untyped, the statement that it also applies to CMD is needed for it to do so.


Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.


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Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.

Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)


Create pit has a depth limit of 30 feet (later spells have different limits).

Enlarge person has a 1 round casting time.

You can ready an action to injure a caster while casting and force a difficult concentration check (vital strike with a ranged weapon is great for this).

Feats can't be taken multiple times unless they specifically say you can.

Allies (or any person/creature) in the way of your shot provide soft cover for ranged attacks.

I'm sure many (maybe even most) people know these rules, but I have seen these come up at the table.


Core Rulebook, page 100 wrote:
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.

Maybe this is common knowledge to most but it caught me off guard. Granted, I've only been playing for a year and a half or so, but I had always assumed that in general a knowledge check could never be made untrained (unless you had a feat/trait/class feature that allowed you to do so).

turns out, if the knowledge check DC is 10 or lower, training isn't an issue.


slugworth wrote:
Core Rulebook, page 100 wrote:
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.

Maybe this is common knowledge to most but it caught me off guard. Granted, I've only been playing for a year and a half or so, but I had always assumed that in general a knowledge check could never be made untrained (unless you had a feat/trait/class feature that allowed you to do so).

turns out, if the knowledge check DC is 10 or lower, training isn't an issue.

If the DC is higher than ten and you are untrained, can you still roll for a 10 to Aid Another?


Sir Belmont the Valiant wrote:
slugworth wrote:
Core Rulebook, page 100 wrote:
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.

Maybe this is common knowledge to most but it caught me off guard. Granted, I've only been playing for a year and a half or so, but I had always assumed that in general a knowledge check could never be made untrained (unless you had a feat/trait/class feature that allowed you to do so).

turns out, if the knowledge check DC is 10 or lower, training isn't an issue.

If the DC is higher than ten and you are untrained, can you still roll for a 10 to Aid Another?

No - the Aid Another entry for skills disallows it.

PRD wrote:
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can’t aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn’t achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.

There is still some debate on whether this means you need a high enough bonus to theoretically hit the final DC, or whether simply being able to roll the check is enough.


Aid Another is a Melee attack roll against AC 10, not the AC of the opponent. That made life a lot easier.

Wands do not provoke attacks of opportunity and Potions do. I had that backward for years.


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shalandar wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.
Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)

That would explain why so many people on the forums seem to dump STR.


Moonclanger wrote:
shalandar wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.
Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)
That would explain why so many people on the forums seem to dump STR.

Just get your friendly barbarian to carry your stuff for you. Even at small size with 7 str you get 17.25 lbs. to work with for the things you need on your person during the day. That is plenty for a caster until they can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords.


Gallant Armor wrote:
Moonclanger wrote:
shalandar wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.
Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)
That would explain why so many people on the forums seem to dump STR.
Just get your friendly barbarian to carry your stuff for you. Even at small size with 7 str you get 17.25 lbs. to work with for the things you need on your person during the day. That is plenty for a caster until they can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords.

That assumes you have a high-Strength character at the table with enough spare capacity. That's not anything like guaranteed.

Besides, even at Small size, you're looking at a component pouch (2 lbs), a spellbook (3 lbs), clothing (2 lbs), a backpack (0.5 lbs), emergency dagger (0.5 lbs), light crossbow (2 lbs), bolts (1 lbs)... Scroll cases are a half pound each, regardless of size. Masterwork tools of doing magical stuff are a pound each, except for the 2-pound Cheat Sheath that most casters should probably have. That doesn't leaves you with room for more than a rope or something. A Handy Haversack won't completely fix your problem, either; they're 5 lbs themselves, and don't have the "lighter for small characters" clause. Headbands, belts (I'd rather have +Con than Heavyload), and cloaks are a pound apiece. It adds up quickly even if you leave everything immediately useful on the barbarian.


shaventalz wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Moonclanger wrote:
shalandar wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.
Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)
That would explain why so many people on the forums seem to dump STR.
Just get your friendly barbarian to carry your stuff for you. Even at small size with 7 str you get 17.25 lbs. to work with for the things you need on your person during the day. That is plenty for a caster until they can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords.

That assumes you have a high-Strength character at the table with enough spare capacity. That's not anything like guaranteed.

Besides, even at Small size, you're looking at a component pouch (2 lbs), a spellbook (3 lbs), clothing (2 lbs), a backpack (0.5 lbs), emergency dagger (0.5 lbs), light crossbow (2 lbs), bolts (1 lbs)... Scroll cases are a half pound each, regardless of size. Masterwork tools of doing magical stuff are a pound each, except for the 2-pound Cheat Sheath that most casters should probably have. That doesn't leaves you with room for more than a rope or something. A Handy Haversack won't completely fix your problem, either; they're 5 lbs themselves, and don't have the "lighter for small characters" clause. Headbands, belts (I'd rather have +Con than Heavyload), and cloaks are a pound apiece. It adds up quickly even if you leave everything immediately useful on the barbarian.

By the time you can afford that gear, you can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords and you can just add them to a belt/cloak for 1.5x cost.


Gallant Armor wrote:
Feats can't be taken multiple times unless they specifically say you can.

Are you sure about that? It's my understanding you can take the same feat multiple times, but the effect just doesn't stack unless otherwise stated.

...or this is indeed a rule I didn't know about.


Gallant Armor wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Moonclanger wrote:
shalandar wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.
Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)
That would explain why so many people on the forums seem to dump STR.
Just get your friendly barbarian to carry your stuff for you. Even at small size with 7 str you get 17.25 lbs. to work with for the things you need on your person during the day. That is plenty for a caster until they can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords.

That assumes you have a high-Strength character at the table with enough spare capacity. That's not anything like guaranteed.

Besides, even at Small size, you're looking at a component pouch (2 lbs), a spellbook (3 lbs), clothing (2 lbs), a backpack (0.5 lbs), emergency dagger (0.5 lbs), light crossbow (2 lbs), bolts (1 lbs)... Scroll cases are a half pound each, regardless of size. Masterwork tools of doing magical stuff are a pound each, except for the 2-pound Cheat Sheath that most casters should probably have. That doesn't leaves you with room for more than a rope or something. A Handy Haversack won't completely fix your problem, either; they're 5 lbs themselves, and don't have the "lighter for small characters" clause. Headbands, belts (I'd rather have +Con than Heavyload), and cloaks are a pound apiece. It adds up quickly even if you leave everything immediately useful on the barbarian.

By the time you can afford that gear, you can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords and you can just add them to a belt/cloak for 1.5x cost.

Depends on the GM. Sure, there's rules for how the pricing normally goes for stuff like that, but there's examples out there that prove the pricing guidelines are just that - guidelines. Besides which, some GMs disallow the use of custom items, following the example of PFS.

And the cheap stuff (cheat sheath, Knowledge reference, etc) are the kinds of things you want before you get your first magical item. We're talking a few hundred gold for all of it, compared to the couple thousand for getting a Cloak of Muleback Resistance.

***

For a rule that many people ignore or don't remember: potions of Fly don't mean your paladin can effortlessly charge the flying demon. You have to make Fly skill checks (which suffers from ACP) to do almost anything - rising rapidly, turning, flying slowly, hovering in place so you can full attack...


VRMH wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Feats can't be taken multiple times unless they specifically say you can.

Are you sure about that? It's my understanding you can take the same feat multiple times, but the effect just doesn't stack unless otherwise stated.

...or this is indeed a rule I didn't know about.

Yes, otherwise the special section for Weapon Focus and Spontaneous Metafocus wouldn't be needed. The lack of that section for Spell Perfection means that you can only ever take it once.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VRMH wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Feats can't be taken multiple times unless they specifically say you can.

Are you sure about that? It's my understanding you can take the same feat multiple times, but the effect just doesn't stack unless otherwise stated.

...or this is indeed a rule I didn't know about.

It's not explicitly stated in the character creation, character advancement, or feat rules (as far as I can find with a quick search), but since the Special line of feats which can be taken multiple times specifically include note as to whether they stack or affect different things, there's a viable proof by contradiction that normal feats (those without a "multiple times" special) can only be taken once.


Gallant Armor wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Feats can't be taken multiple times unless they specifically say you can.

Are you sure about that? It's my understanding you can take the same feat multiple times, but the effect just doesn't stack unless otherwise stated.

...or this is indeed a rule I didn't know about.

Yes, otherwise the special section for Weapon Focus and Spontaneous Metafocus wouldn't be needed. The lack of that section for Spell Perfection means that you can only ever take it once.

But look at the section in the CRB dealing with feats.

Benefit: wrote:
What the feat enables the character ("you" in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.

It doesn't say anything about how the character got the same feat twice, so this might just be for the case where you get a duplicate bonus feat later, but I don't see anything else about only taking feats once each.


shaventalz wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Moonclanger wrote:
shalandar wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.
Oh, I think they are known, just mostly ignored :)
That would explain why so many people on the forums seem to dump STR.
Just get your friendly barbarian to carry your stuff for you. Even at small size with 7 str you get 17.25 lbs. to work with for the things you need on your person during the day. That is plenty for a caster until they can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords.

That assumes you have a high-Strength character at the table with enough spare capacity. That's not anything like guaranteed.

Besides, even at Small size, you're looking at a component pouch (2 lbs), a spellbook (3 lbs), clothing (2 lbs), a backpack (0.5 lbs), emergency dagger (0.5 lbs), light crossbow (2 lbs), bolts (1 lbs)... Scroll cases are a half pound each, regardless of size. Masterwork tools of doing magical stuff are a pound each, except for the 2-pound Cheat Sheath that most casters should probably have. That doesn't leaves you with room for more than a rope or something. A Handy Haversack won't completely fix your problem, either; they're 5 lbs themselves, and don't have the "lighter for small characters" clause. Headbands, belts (I'd rather have +Con than Heavyload), and cloaks are a pound apiece. It adds up quickly even if you leave everything immediately useful on the barbarian.

By the time you can afford that gear, you can afford a heavy load belt/muleback cords and you can just add them to a belt/cloak for 1.5x cost.

Depends on the GM. Sure, there's rules for how the pricing normally goes for stuff like that, but there's examples out there that prove the pricing guidelines are just that - guidelines. Besides which, some GMs disallow the use of custom items, following the example of PFS.

And the cheap stuff (cheat sheath, Knowledge reference, etc)...

Without custom items, I would say go with a dwarf or make sure that someone can cast Ant Haul on you each day.

Grand Lodge

Certain classes give you bonus feats. If you multiclassed into them you could've already taken that feat.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ultimate Combat, among other sources, has this quote:

"Special: This line lists special features of the feat, such as, but not limited to, whether or not you can take the feat more than once, or whether the feat allows members of specific classes to gain additional benefits."

So there is reason to say that you cannot voluntarily select a feat more than once -- but you can receive a feat as a mandatory bonus feat any number of times.


Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Certain classes give you bonus feats. If you multiclassed into them you could've already taken that feat.

That's what retraining is for. Until then (or if both are locked in class bonus feats), only one instance of that feat would be valid. I would say first feat takes precedence, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to let the player pick. Once the decision is made it would be permanent though.

Seems like a corner case though, not likely to come up.


shaventalz wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
Feats can't be taken multiple times unless they specifically say you can.

Are you sure about that? It's my understanding you can take the same feat multiple times, but the effect just doesn't stack unless otherwise stated.

...or this is indeed a rule I didn't know about.

Yes, otherwise the special section for Weapon Focus and Spontaneous Metafocus wouldn't be needed. The lack of that section for Spell Perfection means that you can only ever take it once.

But look at the section in the CRB dealing with feats.

Benefit: wrote:
What the feat enables the character ("you" in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.
It doesn't say anything about how the character got the same feat twice, so this might just be for the case where you get a duplicate bonus feat later, but I don't see anything else about only taking feats once each.

If the general rule was that feats with subtypes (i.e. Weapon Focus: Longsword and Spell Perfection: Fireball) can be taken multiple times as long as the subtype is different, why bother having the special section at all? It should be either on all such feats or none of them if what you are saying is true. Having the special section on certain feats indicates that the general rule is that you can't take a feat more than once.

Edit: +1 to David knott

Grand Lodge

I have no idea why you quoted me Gallant. I was agreeing with you and explaining why someone might end up with multiple of the same feat and thus why the text saying what happens when you do is necessary.


Jurassic Pratt wrote:
I have no idea why you quoted me Gallant. I was agreeing with you and explaining why someone might end up with multiple of the same feat and thus why the text saying what happens when you do is necessary.

Rereading your post, there is nothing indicating that you agreed with me. All you did was point out a case where a character might be forced into taking the same feat more than once and I responded with my take on that case.

Shadow Lodge

Casting Defensively does NOT get rid of an AoO your ranged attack spell(like Acid Arrow) triggers.

ryan waldoch wrote:

Wands do not provoke attacks of opportunity and Potions do. I had that backward for years.

To add to this, you can use that AoO to attack the potion instead of the creature. If you break it then they can't drink the potion.

Grand Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Dispel magic works much better if you know what spell you're targeting. DC of the spell rather than 11+CL.

I thought this was one of those rules that had not been settled, though I would be happy to be wrong.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Casting Defensively does NOT get rid of an AoO your ranged attack spell(like Acid Arrow) triggers.

Almost lost our cleric to an Ice Devil thanks to the double AoO from casting / shooting searing light. I think he's learned his lesson.

ryan waldoch wrote:
You can use that AoO to attack the potion instead of the creature. If you break it then they can't drink the potion.

I'll let Gomez Addams say it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3aOTRCEiFM


Dragonborn3 wrote:

Casting Defensively does NOT get rid of an AoO your ranged attack spell(like Acid Arrow) triggers.

ryan waldoch wrote:

Wands do not provoke attacks of opportunity and Potions do. I had that backward for years.

To add to this, you can use that AoO to attack the potion instead of the creature. If you break it then they can't drink the potion.

I much prefer to disarm. Never break the loot!


Poison Dusk wrote:
Seems like carry capacity rules are largely unknown/misunderstood.

I think it’s more of deliberately choosing to ignore them.

Grand Lodge

Magi and other characters with spellstrike/spell combat still need to cast defensively to not provoke. I don't know why that rule always seems to be forgotten at tables I play at.

Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Etc. are enchantment bonuses do not stack with with the corresponding belt/headband of <Ability Score>

The DC for acrobatics checks in order move at more than half speed and not provoke an AoO is increased by 10.

On that note, every acrobatics check in the same round to not provoke beyond the first check has a cumulative DC increase of 2.

You have to UMD a spell trigger/completion item that is a bonus spell known if it's not on your regular spell list and you are not high enough level to actually learn that spell yet.

The shift ability from the Teleportation subschool ends your turn after its use, as it is "as dimension door"


The inspire courage bardic performance, despite the name, bestows a competence bonus to attack and damage rolls rather than a morale bonus; thus, it stacks with morale bonuses to same, and these benefits even applies to emotionless (but not mindless) creatures such as androids. The saving throw bonuses granted by inspire courage, on the other hand, are morale bonuses.


shaventalz wrote:

...

Besides, even at Small size, you're looking at a component pouch (2 lbs), a spellbook (3 lbs), clothing (2 lbs), a backpack (0.5 lbs), emergency dagger (0.5 lbs), light crossbow (2 lbs), bolts (1 lbs)... Scroll cases are a half pound each, regardless of size. Masterwork tools of doing magical stuff are a pound each, except for the 2-pound Cheat Sheath that most casters should probably have. That doesn't leaves you with room for more than a rope or something. A Handy Haversack won't completely fix your problem, either; they're 5 lbs themselves, and don't have the "lighter for small characters" clause. Headbands, belts (I'd rather have +Con than Heavyload), and cloaks are a pound apiece. It adds up quickly even if you leave everything immediately useful on the barbarian.

Get a masterwork backpack. At 1# for a small character, it calculates your strength at +1. This means an additional load of at least 10#. That extra half pound is worth it compared to the 10# gain.

/cevah

Sovereign Court

Syries wrote:
You have to UMD a spell trigger/completion item that is a bonus spell known if it's not on your regular spell list and you are not high enough level to actually learn that spell yet.

This will have some variance based around the wording of how you get the bonus spell known.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

In my experience this is the most overlooked rule


Cevah wrote:
shaventalz wrote:

...

Besides, even at Small size, you're looking at a component pouch (2 lbs), a spellbook (3 lbs), clothing (2 lbs), a backpack (0.5 lbs), emergency dagger (0.5 lbs), light crossbow (2 lbs), bolts (1 lbs)... Scroll cases are a half pound each, regardless of size. Masterwork tools of doing magical stuff are a pound each, except for the 2-pound Cheat Sheath that most casters should probably have. That doesn't leaves you with room for more than a rope or something. A Handy Haversack won't completely fix your problem, either; they're 5 lbs themselves, and don't have the "lighter for small characters" clause. Headbands, belts (I'd rather have +Con than Heavyload), and cloaks are a pound apiece. It adds up quickly even if you leave everything immediately useful on the barbarian.

Get a masterwork backpack. At 1# for a small character, it calculates your strength at +1. This means an additional load of at least 10#. That extra half pound is worth it compared to the 10# gain.

/cevah

Doesn't really help much for the 7-Strength character being discussed. It weighs +0.5 lbs and gives +2.25 lbs capacity (net gain of +1.75 capacity.) Also shouldn't stack with the Haversack mentioned.

Great purchase for most characters that didn't totally dump Str before they can get a Haversack, though.


shaventalz wrote:
For a rule that many people ignore or don't remember: potions of Fly don't mean your paladin can effortlessly charge the flying demon. You have to make Fly skill checks (which suffers from ACP) to do almost anything - rising rapidly, turning, flying slowly, hovering in place so you can full attack...

And to top that off - you can't put points into the fly skill until you have a natural means of flight or a magical means that you have available every day.

PRD wrote:
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).


shaventalz wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Get a masterwork backpack. At 1# for a small character, it calculates your strength at +1. This means an additional load of at least 10#. That extra half pound is worth it compared to the 10# gain.

/cevah

Doesn't really help much for the 7-Strength character being discussed. It weighs +0.5 lbs and gives +2.25 lbs capacity (net gain of +1.75 capacity.) Also shouldn't stack with the Haversack mentioned.

Great purchase for most characters that didn't totally dump Str before they can get a Haversack, though.

Where did you get a 2.25# capacity? The regular sized backpacks have a 2 cubic feet capacity, and no mention of weight.

The masterwork backpack changes your effective strength for carrying. This is unaffected by the change in size to small as it is neither volume or weight.

So this is a gain of 9.5# not 2.25#.

Edit: Forgot the +10# was for medium. It is only +7.5# for small. That makes it +7# weight allowance for the masterwork backpack.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Get a masterwork backpack. At 1# for a small character, it calculates your strength at +1. This means an additional load of at least 10#. That extra half pound is worth it compared to the 10# gain.

/cevah

Doesn't really help much for the 7-Strength character being discussed. It weighs +0.5 lbs and gives +2.25 lbs capacity (net gain of +1.75 capacity.) Also shouldn't stack with the Haversack mentioned.

Great purchase for most characters that didn't totally dump Str before they can get a Haversack, though.

Where did you get a 2.25# capacity? The regular sized backpacks have a 2 cubic feet capacity, and no mention of weight.

The masterwork backpack changes your effective strength for carrying. This is unaffected by the change in size to small as it is neither volume or weight.

So this is a gain of 9.5# not 2.25#.

Edit: Forgot the +10# was for medium. It is only +7.5# for small. That makes it +7# weight allowance for the masterwork backpack.

/cevah

The original conversation involved the thought that 7 Strength was enough for any caster.

A small-sized character with 7 str has a carrying capacity of 17.25 lbs before exceeding their light load. Upgrading from a normal to masterwork backpack increases their light load to 19.5 lbs - an increase of 2.25 lbs. A small mwk backpack also weighs a half-pound more than a normal small backpack. That makes the effective gain from swapping backpacks an extra 1.75 lbs before becoming encumbered.

The masterwork backpack works much better for characters with non-dumped strength, but that wasn't the kind of character my original post was referring to.


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That you can choose to deal no damage with an attack by taking a -4 penalty on the attack roll. (See "Normal" below.)

UC wrote:

Stage Combatant (Combat)

You are a master of stage and nonlethal combats.

Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +5
Benefit: When you make an attack with a weapon that you have Weapon Focus in, you take no penalty on the attack roll when you are attempting to make an attack that deals no damage or nonlethal damage.
Normal: When making attacks that deal no damage or nonlethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Dark Archive

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Might just be me but he you only get an AO once from a creature's movement was a rule I missed for a while. Didn't come up till I started spamming the field with ponies to eat up the enemies Ao's.


Backpack wrote:
Might just be me but he you only get an AO once from a creature's movement was a rule I missed for a while. Didn't come up till I started spamming the field with ponies to eat up the enemies Ao's.

LOL!


CBDunkerson wrote:
In my experience this is the most overlooked rule

I'm aware of its existence, but my group has invoked rule 0 to remove it.


shaventalz wrote:
Cevah wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Get a masterwork backpack. At 1# for a small character, it calculates your strength at +1. This means an additional load of at least 10#. That extra half pound is worth it compared to the 10# gain.

/cevah

Doesn't really help much for the 7-Strength character being discussed. It weighs +0.5 lbs and gives +2.25 lbs capacity (net gain of +1.75 capacity.) Also shouldn't stack with the Haversack mentioned.

Great purchase for most characters that didn't totally dump Str before they can get a Haversack, though.

Where did you get a 2.25# capacity? The regular sized backpacks have a 2 cubic feet capacity, and no mention of weight.

The masterwork backpack changes your effective strength for carrying. This is unaffected by the change in size to small as it is neither volume or weight.

So this is a gain of 9.5# not 2.25#.

Edit: Forgot the +10# was for medium. It is only +7.5# for small. That makes it +7# weight allowance for the masterwork backpack.

/cevah

The original conversation involved the thought that 7 Strength was enough for any caster.

A small-sized character with 7 str has a carrying capacity of 17.25 lbs before exceeding their light load. Upgrading from a normal to masterwork backpack increases their light load to 19.5 lbs - an increase of 2.25 lbs. A small mwk backpack also weighs a half-pound more than a normal small backpack. That makes the effective gain from swapping backpacks an extra 1.75 lbs before becoming encumbered.

The masterwork backpack works much better for characters with non-dumped strength, but that wasn't the kind of character my original post was referring to.

As stated previously, 17 lbs is plenty for a caster at low level. By the time they need more, a single casting of ant haul should get them through most of the day.


Kneeling is a thing.

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