sarokcat's page

Checking on my subscription and great golem orders, Order 3315048 and Order 3316652 . I had placed them to ship separately to avoid any delays, but at this point it is past the shipping estimate for subscriptions, and I was hoping to check to make sure everything was going ok on my orders.

Not sure what to do about this, and I waited to see if they were going to ship today.. but the order still says pending. With all the confusion lately I was hoping for a little clarification on their status.

Thanks for the clarification! sorry this months order was kind of confusing.

well it looks like you managed to get things shipping which I very much appreciate. though the adventure mat is being billed on both orders? or am I getting two now?

Hey just checked my pending order email, and the order doesn't look quite right, and the emerald spire pack is still listed as shipping, however the class decks which I thought were going to ship with this subscription shipment... aren't listed at all. and nor is the add on deck for S&S. Could someone look into this at some point?

I want to cancel one item in my sidecart if possible... looking at the amount that is going to hit this month, I think I will hold off on getting the emererald spire maps until I am actually going to run the module. Please remove them from my order.

Thanks very much for the info and dealing with this and I understand how it can happen with how crazy this months shipping has been, now to wait for next months shipment!

Hey I finally got the order today, which was pretty exciting considering the long delay, unfortunately there seems to be a couple items missing from the order ><. While I got the advanced class guide, which was the most important thing, and I also got the map pack and the base skulls and shackles game. Two items seem to be missing from the order, people of the stars and the first iron gods AP book are not in the box. The receipt in the box says they shipped as does the email, and I can download them... did they get shipped separately or just not make it in the order?

I don't mind the new factions too much per say, but I feel the transition for a lot of them is... poor at best. more than half my characters are probably going to end up grand lodge just by default, since they can't find a happy niche in their new faction homes. Though some of them are kind of stuck there anyways unless they want to lose their faction specific vanities... which are still nation specific ><

Hey checking in with you about my order, though I know I asked about it before in the general thread a while ago, it is now however Aug 22nd which was the end of shipping for subscriptions I thought, and my order still hasn't shipped (Or unlocked the pdfs!) I am wondering if there is a problem with the order and no one informed me, or what I need to do in order to get the material.

Agreed some clarification on this would be greatly desired both for the players and myself, since I have started looking at things. I have an Andoran who is... Very patriotic, and a captain of the eagle knights, with every Andoran specific boon he could get... because Andor! Who really doesn't like/want to abandon Andor for the new faction, and would love to go grand lodge... but you can pry his Eagle knight vanities out of his cold dead hands.... Honestly flavor wise I don't even want to play him in the new liberty faction, and I know there are others in similar boats.

And of course, perhaps the most important question... since I have ALREADY been asked this. "So I have risen guard, does this mean I can change factions now or not?"

I am definitely still waiting as well, and it is beyond annoying I definitely agree... especially since people that Didn't subscribe or preorder have long since gotten the pdf, or bought the books at the game stores in the area. While it is an unusual situation, it really does suck for those of us who are trying to run games without the books the players have.

Paz wrote:

Finlanderboy wrote:

The PFS management allowed it. They decided it was a good addition to the PFS community. The players can not decide whate is broken or not. We rely on someone else to decide that for us. Then when they recant because their job was not performed well enough in the first place they ban it.

(emphasis mine.)

I think you do Mike/John (and anyone else involved) a disservice. The fact that so few rules that are susceptible to player abuse slip through is a testament to how good a job they do.

Hey mistakes happen all the time. People can still do an amazing job while making mistakes.

My point is, I see the mistake on their end, yet the cost of adjusting thier mistake is being placed on the player that did not make mistake.

If I make poor judgement in doing something I make every practical effort to make sure those effected are bothered as little as possible.

Because I believe that is a moral thing to do.

Forcing someone to spend things off their character to correct somethign someone else made a porr judgement on I find immoral.

In many cases I feel it was less a mistake they made, and most likely they read it like many gms did with the understanding it was a social situation tool as it states, not a everything rule. Unfortunately when people started abusing it, they had to take a second look at it. So if the players had played nice with it, or used it sparingly, it likely wouldn't have reached that point. Yes I feel bad for those who used it appropriately and did not abuse it, because those that did abuse it got it taken away. It is not something I see as the campaign leaderships fault however for allowing us as many toys as they could in hopes we would play nicely.

And to label them Immoral for not making super special exceptions to the rules for one level 2 spell equivalent... seems to be extremely sad to me. Not to mention they may yet make a statement or allow rebuilds on it, and I think Venture Captains have some leeway to allow some changes if a character has been drastically affected by rules changes.(not positive but they should.) So there is some current recourse, and if you wish to wait till after Gencon when the guide to society play and additional resources usually gets it's addendums and they answer issues that changes have brought up... You may actually get that rebuild you are so desperate for. As it is you are automatically allowed to rebuild everything that 'should' have been effected, ie anything spent on peacock, and if you talk to your Venture captain or contact campaign leadership through appropriate channels you may actually get some information on other options.

So lets reserve judgement a little and hold off on calling people who aren't even able to respond till after gencon Immoral because the rules currently in place don't quite fit your situation. They have been very good about being flexible in the past, and there's really no need for name calling or slinging mud around right now.

Honestly I feel more and more the sheer amount of arguing and such over this ability clearly shows how badly broken it was. Since I can't think of a second level spell that would 'totally break' a character build. I do feel that a skill reallocation wouldn't be out of line for some, with the related bluff feat bonus allowed as well (with gm signing off on it.) But to be honest, if you dumped your int to make a stupid bard and relied on bluffing your way through to take no penalty... well that was actually a character choice you were avoiding the consequences of... and if you chose to be a bit of a stupid bard, and not play it that way. Well then you are finally having to deal with the consequences of doing so just like everyone else had to deal with their starting stat allocation.

Banning peacock doesn't take away a single thing from your Bluffing capability, you still have the skill ranks there, and you can still lie like a forum troll all through a scenario.... you really can, you just don't have the supernatural means to use bluff for 20 some other skills anymore, you can still feint with it like mad and do all the normal things. Honestly if you traded away bardic knowledge and lore mastery, then you probably got some very nice survival toys to replace them which you can still use. Especially since it was not or should not have been (though there were ways to use it for breaking combat too theoretically) a major combat ability, you should still be as effective as normal, or more so now that you have that spell/feat back. You just can no longer have Every knowledge/craft/int skill/ other charisma skill. in the game run off of one single check.

So my point of view on the subject, is perhaps allow a limited rebuild to let them choose different feats if they had ones that directly boosted peacock, as well as reallocate skill points if they had potp... with a Gm auditing to make sure everything is kosher. Anything else, really should be a retraining option since if it is That useless without Potp, it was a choice that should have been considered carefully beforehand, or were avoiding the penalties of by using potp.

In many cases Pageant could easily be 'balanced' by appending the text, Can use bluff to replace int checks IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS. Unfortunately the dev that commented on it clearly stated it is very hard to get errata together for a situation like that, due to the number of people involved. So I actually do feel that the leadership made the right call in using what tools they had available to keep the game fun and balanced for as much of the player base as possible.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Its exactly 4k to get that class feature back. 4 k for 10 skill points per level is obscene.

it's not even 10 skill points per level, it is the ability to use your bluff score to replace 10 predetermined skills that have very little relevance beyond highly specific circumstances to make the skills shine. it isn't equal to 10 skill points per level, it is a skill substitution done to mitigate 10 skills few people ever pick up and used to replace an old 3.5 class feature.

The Value of the masterpiece actually was in that it could be used not just to replace the 10 knowledge skills, but also linquistics, appraise, spellcraft, and all crafting skills(dunno if you should count that as 1 skill or all 20 some examples) off one skill build. and it not only gave a +4 to bluff, and thus ALL of these other skills, which now also all work off cha, their primary casting stat! (compared to a feat like skill focus which since someone could take potp instead of a feat... which only grants a +3 to ONE skill, thus making it better to take Potp over even skill focus for a feat choice for these skills.) It could also be used with certain traits to make other abilities run off int, like sense motive and umd, it could easily get a bard 17-18 or more skills maxed .. for the cost of bluff(allowing a 7 int bard to max out another 4-5 skills and have 22-23 out of 35 possible skills maxed out, now theres a skill monkey). It also was more valuable then not one, but TWO class features in many cases. Bardic Knowledge, and Lore Master, both of which could now be traded away for free or ignored due to the masterpiece.

One can replace a second level spell known with a 4k spell knowledge page. meaning for 4k, I get essentially. two class features, a minimum of 14 additional skills at max ranks with a +4 extra bonus on top(bear in mind comparable 2nd level masteries often only give a +4 bonus to ONE skill, usually in a limited situation). The value of that is something that seems slightly better then intended.

Another indication that there needed to be something done about the ability is the fact that so many people are posting they made it a cornerstone of their build... I can't imagine a 2nd level spell becoming anywhere near as valuable that it wound invalidate a full build if it was banned, so it is a bit outside the power curve pretty obviously there. I do wish that those who were bit by the issue could get a skill point rebuild, however there is always the retraining feature now for anything that doesn't work as well.

I do however feel slightly less bad for those who purchased the books and feel they are 'unusable' now due to this ability being banned. Because to be honest if they bought the book just for this one ability after looking at it, just so they could abuse it(and I know there are players who have this ability that do NOT abuse it, but there are definitely a few out there that DO abuse the heck out of it.), it seems like they should have seen that it was far far out of balance with everything else similar, and something like this needed to happen.

(Personally seeing someone with +50-60 to 16+ skills at a pfs table would definitely make me worry, as some of the posters have stated their checks were at.. especially since that could easily outpace a knowledge focused build that has little else going for it.)

Matthew Starch wrote:

- Any faction-specific Prestige Awards or Vanities that you have previously purchased are retained as long as you remain in the new version of the faction. For example, if you had purchased the Trade Prince/ss Vanity available to the Qadira faction, you may retain the use of that Vanity for as long as you remain a member of The Exchange. If you change to a different faction, you lose access to all previously purchased faction-specific Prestige Awards and Vanities, and do not receive any recompense for their cost.

This directly contradicts how previous "free" faction changes have been handled.

Further, here is the full text of the relevant rules:

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play v6.0, pg 17 wrote:

Changing Your Faction

With the change of most factions from nation-based to ideal-based at the start of Season 6, every character is allowed one free faction change anytime during Season 6. After the one free faction change, if at any point you become disillusioned with your faction, you can change to a different one. The longer you have spent in service to a faction, the higher the relative cost to change to one that hasn’t seen firsthand your ability to forward their goals. Changing your faction costs a number of Prestige Points equal to 3 times your character level, but does not alter your Fame score. (Prestige Points and Fame are fully explained in Chapter 5). You retain your faction traits, if any, but lose any faction-specific Prestige Awards you have accumulated during your time with your old faction; generic Prestige Awards from Table 5–4 and Vanities (Pathfinder Society Field Guide 60) are unaffected.

Note that after the first sentence, the paragraph transitions over to talking about the non-free faction changes. Keep in mind that the same reading that would apply the "lose your faction Prestige Awards" to the free changes would ALSO apply the PP cost.

Basically, once it starts talking about the non-free changes,...

This now has ReConfused me (and I keep rolling high on my confusion check much to my dismay...) So does that mean faction specific things stay or go... for example I talked to someone today who wanted to leave the exchange now that they have the new flavor... but who was going to stay in it because otherwise he would lose his sczarni faction only prestige vanity. But who would leave in a shot to become Dark archive if he could. (black market dealer in tomes and artifacts style character)

Also secondary question, are Risen guardsmen, who CANNOT change faction per the very commonly purchased(out here anyways) boon, able to use this to change factions or not, since I am no longer sure myself (if it is free faction change that follows normal rules, I would say no, if it is under the portion in faction retirement where the new factions are listed, I would say yes.) But I just know that will come up at some point this season.

Thank you for the point by point list, I actually plan to print that out and bring it with me for player information now since I know they had similar questions.

At anytime thereafter, before the faction is removed
as a legal choice from the campaign, that character may
change to a different faction one time at no cost. Any
faction-specific vanities, titles, traits, prestige items, or
other purchases made while the character was a member
of the retired faction are retained by that character with
no changes

This is actually the wording from the guide at the bottom of page 17, factions. I took that to mean that all faction specific purchases Are still valid Keerawa. And as I understand it due to the wording in that section, since the old factions are No longer legal choices, they must reassign their faction at the BEGINNING of the next session that character plays at no cost.

However the guide also states-
Liberty’s Edge faction PCs qualify for Andoran faction
vanities and mission boons available in past seasons.
Likewise, Dark Archive faction PCs qualify for Cheliax
rewards, Scarab Sages as Osirion, The Exchange as
Qadira, and Sovereign Court as Taldor. Without a boon
that states otherwise, a PC cannot earn Sczarni vanities
or boons.

That reads to me pretty clearly they can also purchase their progenitors vanities even faction specific ones. So apparently Scarab Sages Can purchase the Risen guard boon if I am reading the guide correctly. It also means all the old mission boons Can still be earned, except for Scarzni.

If I am reading the guide wrong please let me know as I am running a game this Saturday as well and would like to know.

Considering I had been looking at the high end brokenness of the ability, I didn't want to post it here when it could be used in society play... but now that it isn't allowed I wonder if I should post the theoretical build for 50+ bluff at level 10 to 20 of the 35 possible skills I had put together to see how bad it could get..

brad2411 wrote:

sarokcat wrote:

My order has just been sitting there at pending for quite a while now, and several of my friends have been taunting me with their new pdfs and reading me bits to tease me... Any idea what's up with the order delay?

I don't think it is a delay it is just normal. I normally get my shipment and access the first day of shipping but this month is Gencon and they always go a little slower during august. But don't fret to much there are others in the same boat you are in.

Yep, this does appear to be the case. Sarokcat, your order is just fine, but we have not gotten to it yet. The shipping queue is quite a daunting thing, and it can take us some time to get to everyone. We're working hard to get everything out as fast as we can. :)

Thank you for the information, and glad to hear nothing is wrong... now I just need to endure my three friends taunting me with their class guide pdfs until mine finally ships.... Though I still can't stop myself from checking every 30 mins to see if it has shipped yet. Heh.

My order has just been sitting there at pending for quite a while now, and several of my friends have been taunting me with their new pdfs and reading me bits to tease me... Any idea what's up with the order delay?

Ok, pretty sure they just need to take a look at the ability or remove it from the allowed resources... So I vote we all go make PotP bards, as brokenly as possible so that we have 2/3rds of the skills maxed. And then go show them off, so everyone can see how broken it is or how much it needs clarification. Enough people start exploiting it, and it will be sorted out in no time..

This might be a simple way to look at this and I don't know if anybody pointed his out yet. The way I interpret the spell/feat is to use it in dealings with NPCs; not to research/gather information or identify creatures. Someone stated an example earlier of bluffing NPCs into believing you are nobility (Pageant of Peacock ok); but I fail to see how "I want to ID this wall mural, artifact or beast so let me use Pageant of Peacock." is valid. How does a character's ability to spout believable lies actually help a party correctly ID an unknown artifact, lore or beast?

Rudy 2 - I vote that you make it clear up front that Pageant of Peacock is only usable when dealing with NPCs. Tha's how I read and understand it.

That is entirely how it seems to be supposed to read. however optimizers look at the ability to use one skill to cover 18 other skills at a high bonus and refuse to give up the fight to interpret it differently.

What the ability really needs is a slight clarification on the end of the crunch.

Effect: By gracefully weaving your body through subtle forms and postures you can convince others of your breeding, eloquence, and refinement. For the duration of the effect, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on Bluff checks, and may attempt a Bluff check in place of an Intelligence check or Intelligence-based skill check, in social situations..

At that point is then working as intended in my opinion.

sarokcat wrote:

Well, lets do this right, lets compare to a bard again. I put points into Versatile performance, acting, this means I can use acting for bluff And disguise(another thing that gets a bonus from PotP.) now, With 26 Charisma at level 8, lets see how high the checks can get... 8 skill points in performance acting, +8 for cha mod, +3 class, +1 trait for voice of velvet, +3 skill focus perform (something I often take as a bard anyways, +4 potp bonus for bluffing, +2 masterwork tool bonus ... +29 skill bonus , and lets get even crazier and buy a mulberry pentacle ioun stone for a + 5 competence bonus.... ok now we have a +34 bonus to a massive amount of skills, (all int based, perform oratory, and its versatile derivitives of sense motive and diplomacy.)...

Disguise: mostly useless in PFS.

Skill Focus: People actually take that without intending to take Eldritch Heritage?

So a Bard with a specific race, a specific set of traits, a specific feat, Charisma buffed at the expense of everything else is really good at identifying monsters, knowing things, identfiying spells and writing, appraising and crafting. Congratulations! You spent a large amount of resources becoming good at something. I still fail to see your point.

If you could kill monsters with Appraise or Knowledge skills then I might be impressed. The Mindchemist can use his massive Intelligence to make his bombs deadlier, apply it to weapon strikes (Focused Shot/Kirin Strike), etc and he only spent skill points to do so. He still has all of his feats and abilities to dedicate to killing things (the whole point of the game). At best, you go pure caster bard and fall to Support Bard (not a bad choice, high Knowledge checks make you a great support) or Save or Suck Bard (good luck with the DCs once you hit level 8 and you spent all your resources into buffing Perform).

Ok now this is just sounding like sour grapes or refusal to see. lets take out skill focus, which is a common bard thing I have seen. and hey, look, still +31 to everything!

Resources expended, 2 traits. that's right, JUST 2 traits, as well as getting cha, their primary casting stat up to 26 just like you.

And hey guess what, bards make a PERFORM check for several of their abilities! countersong, distraction, as well as several other masterpieces will use your perform check as a result iirc. So not a bad thing there. and race lock in? I Didn't use the assimar locked in race trait like you did. I can be any race I want, so only a +1 from it, and can drop it entirely to get a +30, and while yes, I am not going to be a combat bard bumping cha that high most likely, the class isn't built around direct damage anyways for the most part. Though I likely will have some pretty decent save dcs. As for disguise, I have seen it be useful on several occasions, but the real thing is its just the icing on the cake that is having ALL those skills at once.
So total spent, at minimum, 1 trait, 8 skill ranks. and a second level spell for the masterpiece.

You spent, archetype choice for knowledge focus, 80 skill points to get all 10 knowledges to get +27? in knowledges alone(8rank+16int+3class). Not counting the crafts, the linquistics, you also need to get to match the bard. The case is worse if you are NOT a mindchemist, but comparing this to an average pfs character or Wizard who does knowledges.

In this case it is very much a case of people looking at the situation, and then looking at everything they had to give up to be even close to the bards level, and then seeing how little the bard had to pay for that and going what? Not to mention the silliness of a bard faking linquistics to actually speak/read accurately a language he knows nothing about... heh.

Rudy2 wrote:

Uh... that's like 70 ranks of skill points that you spent on knowledge. That's not leagues less than what is required for PotP.

At level 8 with 26 Int without Cognatogen or feats, a mindchemist would only need 4 ranks in each Knowledge check to equal PotP. There are 10 Knowledge skills. This is 40 skills points. A mindchemist with this Int would get +12 skill point per level, whereas an optimized PotP Bard would get +6 per level. The mindchemist would gain 96 skill points (56 after the ranks in Knowledges). The Bard would have 48 skill points, which is still less that the Mindchemist after the ranks in Knowledges.

Alchemist Requirements: High Int (+8), Mindchemist Archetype
[4 ranks + 3 bonus + 16 Int]

Bard Requirements: Equally High Cha (+8), Masterwork Instrument (+2), Aasimar Racial Variant (+2), Second Level Spell Slot (which gets obsoleted in three levels by Glibness)
[8 ranks + 3 bonus + 8 Cha + 2 MW + 2 Racial]

QED: You need less to be a Mindchemist than a PotP Bard. Also, the Mindchemist would still get 8 more skill points.

Also, you never answered the question. Do you take issue with Mindchemists since they more easily "abuse" Knowledge checks compared to PotP Bards?

Well, lets do this right, lets compare to a bard again. I put points into Versatile performance, acting, this means I can use acting for bluff And disguise(another thing that gets a bonus from PotP.) now, With 26 Charisma at level 8, lets see how high the checks can get... 8 skill points in performance acting, +8 for cha mod, +3 class, +1 trait for voice of velvet, +3 skill focus perform (something I often take as a bard anyways, +4 potp bonus for bluffing, +2 masterwork tool bonus ... +29 skill bonus , and lets get even crazier and buy a mulberry pentacle ioun stone for a + 5 competence bonus.... ok now we have a +34 bonus to a massive amount of skills, (all int based, perform oratory, and its versatile derivitives of sense motive and diplomacy.) for 8 skill points.... at this point why should a PotP bard even bother with int? just skill up one skill and you can use it for everything! and do it as well if not better then a dedicated int build! huzzah!

That normal level 8 wizard with 26 int and a lovely +19 to his knowledge skills will look at you with awe! or maybe raw hatred... it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes.
Yes perhaps they have more skill points then the bard does in total, the fact is, the bard has just replaced 18 skills, yes 18 skills not counting individual crafts(remember they now use bluff for sense motive and diplomacy through oratory as well!). with one skill at max ranks they now have ALL those skills at max ranks + high bonuses. that would cost your mindchemist 144 skill points to get all those skills at that rank. they spent 8.

While I think this interpretation is absolute cheese, and it will never fly at my tables, RAW this is the interpretation that you seem to be arguing for. So that +30 on knowledges you get is nice, he gets a +34 to it on linquisitics as well as knowledges and so many other things as well. And could easily dump int down to a 7 and not worry about skill points or knowledges since hey. PotP does it all.

Of course Pageant of the Peacock can be used to identify monsters. The ability is very clearly defined. You can substitute a Bluff check for any Intelligence-related skill check. There is no valid rules argument for limiting Pageant of the Peacock against monsters. You quoted it yourself. The crunch of the ability is: "For the duration of the effect, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on Bluff checks, and may attempt a Bluff check in place of an Intelligence check or Intelligence-based skill check." Is Knowledge an Int-skill? Yes, ergo, the Bard can use it.

Pageant of the Peacock is strong, but honestly who cares. Bards are supposed to be the knowledge guys. They have a skill named Bardic Knowledge. It's not a big deal. Can't remember the last time a successful knowledge check ruined a scenario. All of this hyperbole and grandstanding is ridiculous.

Actually, since you can only check once with no try again, then unless they have Already spent the performance to activate it, Before combat starts. They cannot use it to identify monsters or special abilities of such. Remember it takes a standard action to activate the masterpiece, so unless they are walking around with it active, no reactive knowledge checks with its bonus.

Of course reading the ability it appears to be Intended to grant the ability to use bluff instead of knowledge checks, in Social Situations. And I would consider it more than a viable alternative in any of the society scenarios where you can use knowledge checks to impress npcs (like hellknights feast for example). As written however, it is a rather poorly phrased and ill understood ability.

On a personal note, I have only encountered someone using this ability once, when a bard was attempting to use it for their Day job roll by using it to replace Crafting, with crafters fortune wand, to get a 45 something day job. Which I think is an even weirder abuse of the rules.

Gunslingers, Especially recently I have seen gunslingers just destroy not only several scenarios, but the rest of the tables fun as well. Especially considering how powerful some of the guns actually are. (not to mention the fact it is a whole extra section of special rules for guns that just feels tacked on both in flavor and execution)

Basically, It just feels like more times then not, when a gunslinger is at the table, everyone else is getting walked through the adventure, just let the gunslinger do the work. And while he may have to pay for bullets (I have seen several abundant ammunition ioun stones of spell storing.) It often seems to be a ridiculously easy table with a gunslinger build, especially for everyone else at the table. Honestly I think 90% of the problems though come from the whole touch ac thing, as I have heard gunslingers laughing at archers, and not even buying precise shot as they can just hit touch ac.

The only thing I wonder about now is the placement of the ultimate and penultimate fights. I think that the flow of the scenario might have been better served by fighting the mummy, then the cleric's powerful...

I see a lot of people with this comment, and I played this last night and am downloading and looking to prep it myself now... and while I know we can't change any DCs or combat stats, it really does sound like it would make massively more sense to do it this way... Mummy fight, scream from outside as the powerful undead start attacking while the cleric laughs in the background, obviously summoning something massive... get to the cleric after the undead fight in the hall, have a few minutes afterwards to pat yourself on the back at having 'stopped' her, as the guests go to their rooms.. do a quick glance around to see just WHAT she was doing.. get the messages, talk to him in the chapel... learn about the assassains.. and THEN massive zombie swarm... and assassain choice...

That way not only do you feel like the whole situation in the manor could have been Worse if you hadn't put the cleric down since she could direct the swarm.... but you still get that edge of your seat moment rushing to the aid of someone. (though the dual choice that doesn't really matter seems kind of silly to me... ) I really feel this flow would be much better for the adventure, and it doesn't change a single Mechanical thing with the scenario. So I while I know we don't have any mechanical flexibility with the scenario, would altering the story in this form be within the boundary of what a GM is allowed to tweak? And does it even sound like a good idea to anyone else the way I have laid it out?

I dislike running cold, though I have done it several times in the past... usually on a day when another GM didn't show up or a table needed a slot. In all those cases I always told the table, "Everyone take 15 minutes, introduce yourselves, your Venture captain is running late to the briefing." And I USE those 15 mins to do a quick read of the module, identify any issues or things I am not familiar with, and get the feel for it. It may not be the 'best' experience I could give that table with time and prep, but I make sure I can deliver at least a minimum standard of fun and amusement before we even get started. (and I have shifted modules when needed if I didn't feel I could do it justice cold to one I could.)

I am however guilty of running, 'lukewarm' is what I am seeing the case as on an occasional basis lately. Often after I have played a module, I go download and then Prep that module myself, including photocopying any monsters needed and making notes to myself about certain parts and what to do for them. So when it comes time and the table is unsure, I look thorough my file of modules, for something the table can play. And I will then run it with a short few minutes time to refresh myself from my notes and earlier prep work. In each case however, I have played the modules I carry around for these situations, read them a couple times, and prepped with notes... It just may have been a few months ago. I find I can do fairly well with this setup though obviously I prefer knowing ahead of time what I'm running, But having a good 10-20 options I am comfortable with offering if something isn't scheduled has really helped me lately.

So maybe what I am saying is that a bit of pre prep after playing a module can really help out if needed later if you are often called to fill in.

As far as I am concerned, all I want from hard mode scenarios... is a tick on the sheet saying that the players took on the additional challenge and survived.... just so I can look at the chronicle and feel proud to be an idiot for playing at that level...

You can't get a metamagiced spell from an NPC caster. You have to get a PC to cast it for you.

Ah so I was right to tell him no then, just for a different reason then expected. Good to know, also explains why I couldn't find rules for it.

Well First off I would like to thank everyone for replying, as I feel a bit better about the game now. I had thought I knew the rules fairly well, but the constant challenges and 'it doesn't work that ways' were making me doubt myself on several of the issues.

It looks however like heighten does work that way.. so how do I adjudicate the cost of it for society play... treat it like purchasing a spell of the higher level with minimum caster level for that level of spellcasting? Since it is one of the few scenario continuing spells I should probably record what item it was cast on as well, but does adding metamagic affect the spellcasting cost to a npc spell purchase other than raising the spell level?

Hey, At the table today I was bombarded with rules questions, commentary, and arguments over several situations from a player. And while I dealt with it as much as I could at the table, I was curious about how other people would handle the situation, as well as making sure I did things right.

Starting with the rules questions I suppose... Today we were playing-

To start off, when they encountered the first situation where several people try to turn them away, after standing around for a bit they commented about leaving and coming back in a day or two, and since there is some time pressure to the module as stated... I warned them out of game that would likely result in the Society sending another team to deal with the problem, and 0 0 0 chronicles. I believe abandoning the mission does result in that, even though they have hardly started?

At this point several arguments were brought up about invisibility and pushing through mobs and opening doors... where the statement was that invisibility should allow you to shove through and interact with objects and doors without notice... I said yeah, No to interacting and no one in a press of a mob and guarded doors not noticing.

Things continued for a while and due to bad luck and failed saved much of the party gained the Exhausted condition... at which point rather then continue forward to save the people that were kidnapped and in danger, despite several npcs urging and begging them to do so... One player basically insisted on a 8 hour rest to clear the condition.... and just started working off that assumption and the group couldn't move forward without them (cleric).. forcing an 8 hour break in a module that assumes immediate continuation.
I Really feel that in this case I should probably have skipped to Writing out 0 0 0 chronicles here since it says the big guy will escape soon... but as the rest of the table seemed unhappy with the situation and wanted to continue as planned but couldn't without him... I gave them a warning that I really shouldn't be allowing this, and continued the adventure primarily for the people who were trying to play it straight.... What should I have done in that situation when a Chase is delayed by 8+ hours and everything in the module tells them to hurry, but does not actually set a hard timer.

Continuing the adventure.. the group encountered one of the banes of many adventuring groups... Deeper darkness... and here is where many of the issues started to crop up again.

The first rules argument took place over whether someone using telepathy could communicate with someone in darkness, even though they had established the mental link before it went into effect. Since the creature can do so at distance with that ability, I ruled that darkness didn't stop anything, and had to squash that argument.

Next was the rules argument over a creature not being able to see in it's own deeper darkness area.. which continued even when I pointed out the creatures in question had other methods of finding targets. I am unsure about creatures and casters seeing through their own deeper darkness. but I am pretty sure the beasts were able to detect thoughts into it just fine.

Then things got a little weird, an argument over targeting invisible and unseen creatures. first with Slumber hex... because it just says target they argued that they could target it even if they could not see it and did not know where it was... I did not allow this either since you need to be able to pick out the target somehow.. (though I was nice and said if you pick the correct square i'll have them make the save.) However next round the argument came up again over spiritual weapon since it is supposed to lock on to the designated target and keep attacking... he wanted to cast it and have it magically attack the right area, because it tracked the target.. which I didn't allow at all.
Pretty sure none of these work that way, and I did not allow them too.

Next up was the rules question about being able to move through an incorporeal creatures square... argued that since it was incorporeal, it A) didn't threaten, and B) he could move through its square without provoking or acrobatics. I was pretty sure that no where in the rules was an exception for this, but I want to make sure that I did it right when I didn't allow that to happen either.

Finally after that mess was cleared up and a few more events happened, it came chronicle time I was informed he was interesting in putting a Heightened heightened heightened continual flame on his shoulderpad so he could have a level 5 light spell that could never be deeper darknessed again. I didn't record this since it sounded completely wrong to me, and I thought you couldn't apply more than one of the same metamgaic to the same spell. (otherwise hello triple enlarged or empowered fireballs.)

A few more minor issues which I dealt with... but all in all it made for a very rough session as a GM at the table being constantly challenged over the rules every few minutes, especially since I thought I had a good grasp of things, and I did not want to stop the game every round for a 5-10 minute rule discussion....

My player question, is what should I have done in the situations above, and especially with the one player who kept bringing up every single argument. Especially as the player was metagaming about the monsters, and the situation, and when he learned his aoe missed spent quite a bit of time arguing about how it wasn't really where he said originally. Then when I finally lifted the gm screen for a second to show him, no he had placed it wrong. (for areas of darkness where no one can see, I often use a GM screen to block that portion of the map, and ask them how far in front of them, and in which direction they target things etc.... Its more fun that way I think.) So immediately next he adjusts his next hit to be right in the exact area the monsters had been in without making any check, arguing of course he knew they were there....

It just made for a really rough session and I felt sorry for the other players at the table. And If anyone has any suggestions for dealing with that kind of table situation, and if I did screw up any of the rules issues, could you let me know or pass on any tips about this? (I thought about asking him to leave at one point except it would have pretty much caused a tpk without heals/spells and I didn't want to do that to the rest of the table. and was unsure if I really could have...)

Just checking up on this... if I can I would like to start with the city gates flip mat... otherwise I think I may need to cancel this subscription before it even really gets started.. 4 maps in one month is a lot (especially when I already have one of them, since I bought hill country at the game store!)

Hey I just decided to join for the flip map subscription since I am running far more society games lately and the maps are extremely useful... so I added the city gates as the next map to ship.. only to check subscriptions to find it also added cave chambers and starship chambers and hill country(hill country is fine) to the subscription as well instead of starting with city gates as I marked when I checked out.

Was rather disappointed in this scenario to be honest, as it felt a lot like a redone City of strangers part 1... though not as well done. Which is sad because Kaer maga has so much fun to offer players. Then again I only played in it and haven't read the full thing, but that was our general impression at my table.

Had an interesting run of this scenario this Saturday, the group honestly seemed like they couldn't care less about the blacksmith's involvement. All they really cared about was the whiny 'noble brat', despite repeated mentions of someone else being behind the bandits. Of course their interaction with Lander started out with intimidate, and moved right into grappling, tieing him up, and hauling him back to town on a makeshift sled.... Needless to say Lander wasn't happy, and they didn't even think about bringing up the blacksmiths deeds, so only 1 prestige much to the whining of the table. It did make the adventure seem a bit short when handled that way however.....

2 positive channeling clerics, one with favored class boosts to get Channeled Revival.

1 druid with animal companion.
1 summoner with eidolon.
1 paladin with Covering Defense and Missile Shield.

Everyone sprang for a casting of heroes feast and life bubble, which made a lot of the diseases a non-issue.

.

How can you get channeled revival during bonekeep?? That requires 11th level cleric access, and there is no favored class bonus that boosts channel dice as far as I can find. So if it is possible for society play, would love to find out How.

If it would break invisibility it would break the no PVP rule.

No inhibiting the other characters
No putting spell statuses on the other character
No cutting things that other characters are dangling from

No messing with the NPCs other players need for their faction mission
No messing with the other pcs pets or minions

I like this rule, and these guidelines... but the ones that are still up there?

Yeaaaah, All of these have happened at tables I've been at at one point or another, in at least one case where someone was being annoying at the table the witch misfortune and then Silenced the character just so we could talk to the npcs without getting ourselves killed...

And on a couple of occasions I've been forced to chase after another players character going... Don't kill him! He's my faction mission! Only to be forced to watch as they cut him down because I am not allowed to use nonlethal force to pacify crazed slaughter monkey scarzni.....

A very recent chapter was where we as pathfinders made an agreement with a woman as part of the module... so she comes out to talk to us after we gave our word... and the gunslinger pulls his gun and attacks her... and I am standing there stuck as the LAWFUL GOOD Inquisitor who gave his word to the lady she would be safe, and I am unable to take any action against the party except try to use nonlethal force to knock her down after her surrender (since they were using LETHAL and I couldn't heal her enough to matter...) When what I really wanted to do at that point would be try to grapple the gunslinger and beat him unconscious...

Maybe I just had some weird tables.. or maybe I am just weird..

This came up this week as I had a player at my table who was playing to apply his pregen chronicle to a brand new level 1. The chronicle comes with a spiffy little flavorful boon, as well as some nice eventual item access. However I wanted to make sure I did it right in granting him access to all the boons at level 1 and eventual item access he had earned in the scenario, as well as the 500 gp.

Just today I sat down with my physical copy of this book, and opened it up only to have several of the pages basically slide right out as soon as I came to them. Right now I have two groups of pages that have fallen out.. 21-28, and 43-58, a pretty large portion of the book. The book itself is in otherwise pristine condition, and I am still able to read the pages now to prep for my group, though I worry about them getting lost later. I do have the pdf from the subscription as a backup, though I wanted to know if there is a way to get a replacement copy for the table. The entire book seems fine other then the fact that is falling apart though, so there is that. and I went and checked the other books in the ap and they seem to be just fine in regards to their binding. First real issue I have had with one of your books falling apart on me to be honest so not sure what to say. I can provide pictures of the book and the separated pages if needed as well.

I cancelled the flip-mat Lairs as that item's inventory was off and is no longer available.

The payment is failing due to a mismatch between the billing address your bank has on file and the one on the order's payment method.

USPS Priority 2-5 business days is how it is currently set.
UPS 3-5 business days is $14.04
2nd day is $33.23
Next Day is $75.41

If you choose next day or 2 day, call customer service Thursday morning to make sure it is correctly updated and shipped ASAP.

All of our mail has been picked up for the day and we are closed tomorrow, so while packages may still be processed for shipping tonight, no more packages are leaving the building at this point tonight.

thanks
sara marie

well damn. will have to sort that out then, and at 75 dollars when it wont even get it here by Christmas I might as well go buy the items from the store. While I kind of hate to do it, please cancel the entire order, and I will seek other gift alternatives (and have already started doing so being worried about time.)

hey, I got my first great golem sale shipment recently, and checked to see why my other one hadn't arrived yet, only to discover it had a payment declined issue somehow.... the big question is can the order still be altered? if I can drop AP #42 and the flip map maybe I can afford the shipping change to get it here in time for at least right after Christmas... honestly don't know what to do at this point since the order was mostly for a gift as I have the items myself... any idea when it would get here or be shipped if I change the payment and have it go as is? and if there are faster shipping options and how much?

hey, there is an item in my sidecart set to ship with the december shipment, gamemastery map pack lairs. Which i have purchased on the great golem sale. If i have not already been charged for this item (i don't think i have.) could i please have it removed from the sidecart as i have just purchased it from you during the (admittedly awesome) great golem sale.

Add me to the list of those with the glitch to correct!

Just double checking on this to make sure everything is ok as it is listed pending now but hasn't shipped yet. Really hoping to get the august shipment before the september one.

Hey there, I have been back from the trip for a bit now and went to check on this to see when i could expect it to arrive. The order is still showing suspended on the page though. So it can be unsuspended at any time and shipped out.

I just got back into Arizona, and this order can now ship any time! I look forward to getting it and thanks for holding it for me!

Certainly ^_^ I have edited your subscription to include the base set, and placed it in the suspended order from above. You should be receiving an updated confirmation email shortly.

~Justin Riddler
Customer Service

Thank you very much! I look forward to when I can finally pick it up!

Thank you very much for placing it on hold for me until then! However it will not let me subscribe to the baseset + add on as it already has me subscribed for just the add on. (somehow the base set was not an option when i went there via the page earlier). So can the base set be added to my subscription or the subscription i set up be removed so i can resubscribe via that link?

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Ongoing Subscription was removed from your shopping cart because you are already subscribed.

is what i see sadly at the current time.