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Olmac wrote:


1. Inform the Queen
2. Queen orders his death
3. Sermignatto greater scry

If that wold work why wouldn't it be used against the PCs?

Of course there are lots of reasons why it wouldn't be done.

Ileosa just doesn't care that much about being seen as legitimate by that stage. She is nearing the end of her plan to kill most of the population of Korvosa and turn it over to devils. As far as she is concenred any rebellion is irrelevant by that stage, she has the blood samples she needs. Except maybe to minimize the deaths so there is more life for her to take. That is why she does nothing whilst the PCs clear the castle.

Sermignatto pledged the service of his agents, but not himself. He does not take orders from the queen. It would be un-devillish for him to help her without some sort of extra payment. Anyway he know her plan and knows that maintaining the appearance of legitimancy of her rule over Korvosa is unimportant. It is certainly not important enough for him to reveal himself.

Page 7 of my module talks about Blackjack and Neolandis going public awakening the city. It is clear from the module that Cressida plans to reveal Neolandis once the PCs complete the tasks in Handout 1. That is how it happened when I ran it. Of course you may haves chosen to do it differently.

When not appearing in public Neolandis would be in the rebellion HQ under the temple of Pharasma. They don't know about Sermignatto, but do know about Togormor, so that place will be protected from scrying.


Bill Dunn wrote:
pjackson wrote:


No system of inherited power would work if spouses could succeed, the temptation to murder would be too great for any lord to marry.
As Olmac points out, the same argument applies to having children - or letting relatives survive.

No it doesn't, not quite. Other relatives and children (at least the adult ones) don't get the share the sovereign's bed so are easier to guard against.


In my game the players spent all the loot they got from the previous module on gear to boost the cleric's abilities against undead. So he was able to deal with many of the encounters very easily, but not all of them. There are more in the AP then just undead, and even the undead can sometimes avoid the effects.

The dragon, the devils, and the aberration could give him some trouble. The creatures at the end where the sword is would also be tricky.

You could always say that the undead get +4 to their saving throws against such charms as part of the castle's aura.

The dread wraith popping in and out of walls caused my party some trouble before they realized they needed to ready actions for when it appeared.

The dance was also fun in that they didn't spot the cause and those that made their saves detected magic under the floor snd started trying to dig it up. Trinia was with them and used countersong which got her killed but revealed the monster.


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In my game Neolandis returned at the start of the last module, as one of the leaders of the revolt against the Queen, giving legitamany to the revolt by his denunciation of Illeosa. He was protected by the PCs, but of course the Queen was absent.

No system of inherited power would work if spouses could succeed, the temptation to murder would be too great for any lord to marry.

Devils may be lawful, but like paladins they don't have to respect local laws that go against what they believe are greater laws. For devils "might makes right" is such a law. The law against not murdering the king is certainly one she broke which they have no problem with ignoring according to the AP. Illeosa becoming the de facto ruler with the might to back it up would be sufficient. That has often worked in the real world too.


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Ashkar wrote:
pjackson wrote:
I don't think so. It is not normal for spouses to inherit that way (too much temptation).

Well, Golarion has some differences in inheritance traditions of monarchs.

And yeah, Neolandus, or his heir to the role of seneschal, Marcus Endrin wouldn't choose Ileosa, preferring some distant relative of Eodred or a local noble.

I have the original CoCT. In those Marcus Endrin was never the seneshal. Neolandis' fate was unknown but he wasn't missing for very long. Did the hardback change that?

Of course Illeosa was clever. She was legitamately regent during her husband's illness. She was the de facto ruler, but as soon as Neolandis reappears and denounces her she was no longer the legitmate one.


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Ashkar wrote:


Short answer - she is legitimate monarch (no jokes, she is),

I don't think so. It is not normal for spouses to inherit that way (too much temptation). In Korvorso it seems the seneschal gets to make the choice, and he wouldn't choose Ileosa.


I am surprised. Scarwall was by far the best module in the AP. It didn't need any significant change.

IIRC Gary Gygax recommended that 75% of rooms be empty. Of course they should be given a bit of a description, store room, bedroom, etc. but a decent DM should be able to make up the details on the fly (or use the tables from the 1e DMG.


Saiyagamitar wrote:

Thank you for clarifying that, I was starting to go crazy reading and re-reading the magic item creations rules lol.

I thiink you might have missed this line:

Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

They are not definitve rules, only guidelines. They work for standard items, but require judgement for not standard ones.


Craft skills are good substitue for Spellcraft in many cases, especially with the Crafters Fortune spell.


Thanks. That makes sense.

Though as we are currently playing Giantslayer most of our opponents have reach so it would be the other way around :)


I agree that or could replace the and in that sentence without changing the meaning, but that is just normal english.

What is the point of crawling without leaving a square? Can you crawl in Pathfinder terms without leaving your square? It is not just a move action it is an form of move.

Or in other words why is crawling mentioned in that sentence? If the intention was just to stop standing up from provoking then it would have been simpler just to mention standing up. Since crawling was mentioned it must have been intended to have an additional effect.


Monkey Style says "you can crawl [...] without provoking attacks of opportunity"

In another thread I read that though you don't proboke for crawling, you still proboke when leaving a threatened space.
If that is correct in what circumstances would the style allow you to avoid an attack of opportunity?


Serum wrote:
Jason Wedel wrote:
pjackson wrote:

I am playing a cha 7 character (a monk 1/sorcerer 6/EK 1 dwarf) currently. I role play her charisma by having her stay quiet much of the time, not explaining her actions, and not attempting Cha skill checks, except once when I made a bluff check and succeeded. Unknown to me it was very nearly the truth.

She has Wis 20 and ranks in sense motive, so being rude would not fit.

I thought you had to have a CHR 10 to be a Sorcerer
No class has an ability score restriction. However, in order to cast spells, one needs an ability score (X+10) in order to cast a spell of level X. With a 20 Wisdom, it seems likely that this character has the Empyreal Wild Bloodline, whose bloodline power replaces Charisma casting score with Wisdom.

That is correct.


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I am playing a cha 7 character (a monk 1/sorcerer 6/EK 1 dwarf) currently. I role play her charisma by having her stay quiet much of the time, not explaining her actions, and not attempting Cha skill checks, except once when I made a bluff check and succeeded. Unknown to me it was very nearly the truth.

She has Wis 20 and ranks in sense motive, so being rude would not fit.


Chakat Firepaw wrote:


It also wouldn't be too much of a stretch for the Paladin to consider Ileosa's reign to be illegitimate or at least likely to be so. Remove legitimacy and you remove lines of thinking that start with "the law is the law."

It is no stretch at all. It is clear she is not the legitimate ruler. Royal spouses do not succeed to thrones. That would be too much temptation to murder. The law in Korvosa is fairly clear, the seneschal chooses the new monarch, but of course he is missing. Illeosa took over most of the reigns of power whilst her husband was ill, and she keeps hold of them through inertia, but her right to use them died with her husband. Still there is no one with an obviously better right so so long as she uses the power responsibly she should be tolerated.

That explains why Illeosa used a slow, disabling way to kill the king. She probably planned on charming the seneschal into declaring her monarch, then killing him before the spell wore off, but he resisted.

Paladins of Ababdar would probably still be a bad idea given that Illeosa eventually gets the Archbanker to support her.


This Side wrote:
I am also curious how people have used Sial/Laori in the past. Do you have them actively engage in combat along with the PCs, or does this make encounters too easy? My ideal choice would be to pick and choose for them to help when needed, but it would be hard to roleplay that

My PCs did not want anything to do with them, but they kept offering to help. Eventually the PCs attacked, killed Laori and forced Sial to use Word of Recall to escape.


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My take was that the successor would be elected by the council lead by the seneschal. With Neolandus missing the election could not be held nor a replacement appointed. The nobles let the Queen continue to use the authority she had excersised whilst the King was ill whilst they jostled for position. The plague gave the Queen the excuse to cement her authority.


Scarwall is a great dungeon.
It gives players lots of choice, but not too much.
For a start they have several ways to try to enter. My players first tried on foot, then decided to fly in.

Drawing the rooms as you come to them is how I ran it. It is a normal method.

The PCs should be getting pretty powerful by now. They need to be for some of the encounters, but raw power may well not be enough.

Running some of the encounters might be a bit tricky if you are in experienced.

Spoiler:
Eg. the Dread Wraith is incorporal and has spring attack. That means it can hide inside a wall, move out to attack and move back into a wall. It needs to do that to challenge a normal party. But inexperienced players might struggle to come up with tactics to counter it. Even my players took a while to realize they needed to ready actions to attack when it came out of the wall.


I am building a dwarf monk/sorcerer intending to go EK as a replacemnet character for Giantslayer. Empyreal bloodline + eldritch scrapper. Sohei + possibly master of many styles. AC vs giants is good. Attack bonus is pathetic. Will use a guisame for trip attacks with reach using true strike. Main contribution initially will probably be casting Enlarge Person.


Just taken the trait for a dwarven monk/sorcerer going EK.

Practiced Spellcaster made more builds viable without in anyway being overpowered, since they would still be weaker than single classed casters (or ones that used full casting prestige classes).


Devilkiller wrote:
My suggestion, which I'm sure most folks will hate, is that "replacement" PCs should use NPC Wealth By Level instead of what PCs get. This way new PCs won't come into the game better equipped than the old ones.

Not always. Mine was the PC to die in our last session and he had less than the NPC wealth level. He did die in the penultimate encounter of the module so missed out on the large treasure that was in the next room. :)


It looks like Guided got moved over with the rest of the CotCT stuff.

That's annoying as I only want to see Pathfinder RPG stuff


Kalindlara wrote:
My Hero Lab has had it as part of the Curse of the Crimson Throne content all along.

Mine says as part of the latest release notes CotCT now available.

It is under the adventure paths.
Second Darkness is listed under d20 system adventure path but I don't have those ticked as available to characters.


The Curse of the Crimson Throne update for Hero Lab has added the Guided weapon property.
I have the 3.5 version of CotCT in which it first appeared.
Has it been reprinted in the revised CotCT?

It was used on the weapon of a NPC whose class has been changed (as he used a 3.5 prestige class) from what I have read. So it could easily have been dropped or revised, but the text in Hero lab matches the 3.5 version. Shouldn't it have at least been restricted to melee attack as James Jacob wrote was the intention?


MendedWall12 wrote:
Also what Steve said, the leveling in 4 was weird, in that the PCs were way more powerful at early levels than you'd be used to.

AIUI the designers of 4th thought the sweet spot of previous editions was roughly levels 6-10 so tried to replicate the experience of playing at those levels. So level 1 in 4th was supposedly to feel like level 6 in 3.x. and level 30 like level 10, though I don't have the experience to judge how well they achieved their aim.


I've seen someone get heat stroke when the temperature was just in the high 80s (it was sunny and he wasn't wearing a hat). I have also seen people get badly sunburned at lower temperatures. I burn easily and learned as a child to wear a hat and use sun cream. In the shade it is different. I used to live in a flat that would get over 90F for a few weeks most summers. That was uncomfortable, but not damaging.

Maybe 90 in the sun, 100 in the shade?

BTW dogs don't sweat much.


Equestrian Plate seems to have a similar issue.

I am considering crafting folding plate so was calxulating the base cost to work out the time required.

It's not a big issue, just slightly confusing.


In my copy of Ultimate Equipment the price of folding plate is given as 12,650 and the cost as 7,650.
This does not seem right.
I would expect the price to be the base price plus the cost of a masterwork suit of full plate - 1650gp. Thus the base price would be 11,000gp
But then the cost should be half the base price plus the cost of the armour - 5,500 + 1,650 = 7,250 gp not 7,650gp.

Is the cost or the price wrong or have I misunderstood something?


You can add an armoured kilt to the Haramaki armour for an extra +1 AC.

It might slow you down if your character is not a dwarf.


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I am one.

In 1978 I was in a wargames club when I was asked to help as a group playing a highly modified OD&D game wanted to run a large scale battle.
So my first character was a 15th level wizard.


Age 18 in 1978, using modified original D&D

First character - 15th level wizard! I was a member of a wargames society at uni and a D&D campaign wanted help playing out a battle scenario. I was an NPC ally of the good guys but with his own agenda - take out a specific evil guy. So Irode invisibly across the battlefield looking for him whilst helping out when opportunity presented. Forced one enemy leader to withdraw, used wall of fire to to block the advanced of a regiment of mummies. Was confused, needed lots of help. Had great fun.

I remember when THAC0 was new.


Just finished the path last Sunday.
The final fight came down to the queen vs the party. The party had not managed to hit her, even using the listed AC. and lacked enough flying ability to close with her. Many of the party where sheltering in an anti-magic shell to suppress various confusion, song of discord and mind fog effects. It was close to a stalemate.

Then the gish decided to use the scroll of gate they found in the castle to summon a solar. I didn't want the Solar to do all the fighting for them, so I had him use Miracle to allow him to tear the bound devil apart from Ileosa. The devil died quickly and Illeosa dimensioned door away. The Solar then said the true evil had been defeated and he would leave the mortal to the party, though he did cast a break enchantment before leaving on the charmed party member.


Diafanus wrote:

Hey all. I am looking at the map of Castle Korvosa, and I don't see a way into the Dungeon level other than the secret door, A6, from the wood storage in A24. The introduction in Edge of Anarchy said that Ileosa stole the key to the dungeon level from Neolandus. Is there another way into the dungeon level I am not seeing?

It was the key to the treasury that she stole. since that is room A2 which does not have doors, it must mean the key to the only door leading to the treasury - A24. I would expect there to be a single door to a treasury. It doesn't seem a terribly sensible arrangement.


Since my party did not have any detect evil ability, I had the city's chief paladin walk into the castle to challenge her to let him detect evil on her. She cooperated using her mislead of course, and then invited him into a private chamber with just maids and Sabrina attending her. Then stripped so that he could see she wasn't using any magic item to conceal her alignment. She then sent the blushing paladin on a mission to Magnimar to track down the source of the plague.

She had her maids tell the story of how the Queen was tested by the Paladin and found innocent. The stripping bit ensured it spread rapidly.


JulianW wrote:


TLDR: The DCs of the chase mechanics made her guilt self-evident

The DCs ranged from 10 to 25, requiring Tumble, Escape Artist, Spot, Jump, Balance or Climb.

After drinking her potion of cat's grace and potion of jump Trinia had Balance +11, Climb +9, Jump +23, and Tumble +15. She had a AP feat that let her take 10 on climb checks even when distracted.

The party's only athletic character was a ranger. So she was able to keep ahead easily, except when magic was used. One time whe successfully dazed the person who got ahead of her using her wand, and then was able to get away again. On the one DC that was really challenging to her (DC 25 escape artist check) I rolled high.

It might have been better to lower her skill (by eliminating the potion of cat's grace) to at least make it a closer contest.


You can have as many pages of spell knowledge as you can afford.
The cheapest costs 1,000gp for a 1st level spell unless you can make them yourslf (which you can't before at least 3rd level).

I am creating a sorcerer as a replacement character at 6th level with the expect wealth for that level - 16,000gp. Despite being able to make them herself for half price she will only have a handful of pages of spell knowledge as she also needs other items.

A 1st level orc barbarian will probably start with a big axe or sword and will be likely to kill even level opponents with one hit, though he won't hit everytime.

A 1st level sorcerer (excepting some extreme builds) will not be able to kill an even level opponent with one spell, but might be able to knock out a bunch which is almost as good, though they might resist so he will need the barbarian to hide behind.

The wealth by level guidelines would stop the barbarian from being presented with a "+15" sword. A +1 sword would cost about 2,310gp, a +2 one 8,310gp.

A 1st level sorcerer who found a wand of fireballs would be overpowered compared to a 1st level barbarian.


Since pages of Shield and Feather Fall cost less than the type I ring (for her) she can have them both available all the time. The pages are in the back of her spellbook inside her handbag (handy haversack).
For crafting she gets the needed spell into her spellbook and then uses her vestment. Similarly for other temporary spells.

I am sure a ROSK is a useful tool, but it overlaps a lot with the vestment and PoSK. The extra functionality is not currently worth the cost for her.


By the end of module 5 some of my PCs were discussing burning down Sandpoint.

Spoiler:

The party's bard failed his save vs the trap that made him think the others were against him. He fled into town and convince the sheriff that the others had turned evil. So when the others came out of the hole they tried to capture them, which rather soured relations.


SHe will only need Shield when she finds herself in melee and can't escape. In that case the round it would take to get out the spellbook and do the spellcraft check would be too long - especially with the AoOs that might provoke.

For spell creation the Menomic Vestment works for one sorcerer/wizard spell of any level she can cast, so is better than a Ring of Spell Knowledge I for item creation, even though it is only 1/day. In the future, when she can afford it, she might go for a Ring of Spell Knowledge II.

If it wasn't for Craft Wondrous Item halving the cost of the pages then I probably would have kept the Ring of Spell Knowledge I.

She is using the human FC bonus of course


A blessed spellbook would be too expensive at the level she is starting - so Wealth By Level of 16,000gp. Copying low level spells is pretty cheap anyway.

With Craft Wondrous Items she can make 3 pages of spell knowledge for the price of the ring and there just aren't that many 1st level spells she needs to be able to cast more than 1/day.

The Mnemonic Vestment seems a better way to get a similar effect to Versatile Spontaneity.

I looking at if I can spare enough for a Page of Spell Knowledge with Beast Form I.


If you want to force the players to run why not use the in game mechanism to do so - a Fear spell - assuming they haven't all got good will saves.

Perhaps have them ambush a bunch of minions and after they attack the boss appears out of hiding/invisibility and casts fear. If the party regularly uses Haste fudge his initiative to be just after the haste is cast so they can run away faster. Make sure there is something stopping those who make their saves from attacking the one casting fear (which could be from a wand or a staff). Then have the caster seal them in with a wall spell.

Expect them to try to find out more about the caster when they get out of the dungeon.


The characters behaviour has changed and he is now killing without good reason and injuring his friends - clearly the character has gone insane. Humour him, and take him to an asylum where he can be treated. Visit occationally.


Derek Dalton wrote:


My Sorcerer saw more melee combat then almost anyone else. Things happened where the monsters often got the jump on us and zeroed in on the weakest looking character, me.

Surely you mean the most powerful looking character. Intelligent foes should target casters because they are often the biggest threat. That is what PCs usually do. Of course less intelligent ones might go for one that looks most vulenerable.

That is why my casters often try to look like another class: wear a monk's outfit; a rapier at your waist and a lyre on your back; or a leather jacket and several daggers.


Grey Lensman wrote:
Or if the unknown regularly charges into you......

It happens rarely in most adventures.


Derek Dalton wrote:

Sorcerers are in my mind easier with spell selection since you should pick the basics. Magic Missile, Shield and Mage Armor. All three are solid choices giving the Sorcerer defense and offense.

At first level Magic Missile is weak, and you don't want to spend 2 of your limited spell selection on boosting AC. Mage Armour is the only solid choice of the three.

Unless you expect to be mostly facing undead Colour Spray or possibly Burning Hands are better offense. You can swap out Colour Spray for Magic Missile later. Grease. Enlarge Person and Silent Image would make good third choices.


strayshift wrote:
I've played both for over 35 years and all types of level, it ultimately comes down to play-style, party balance, the DM and the adventure you are doing. In other words: they are just different, one is not better than the other.

Since sorcerers were only introduced in 2000 with 3.0 you haven't been playing them that long. Wizards maybe - I have. :)

Sorcerers were less flexible in 3.5 and were rated tier 2 for only being able to break the game in a few ways depending on build, where wizards were tier 1 for being able to break the game in lots of ways.

Pathfinder seems to have mad sorcerers closer to wizards, so I think now I agree it is down to playstyle. Wizards work best when they know what they will be doing and can prepare for it. So if your group does reconnaissance first a wizard should be stronger. If they just charge into the unknown a sorcerer probably is. In my experience the latter is more common.


I changed my mind about giving her a Ring of Spell Knowlege I


http://paizo.com/products/btpy8tc0?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Rise-of-the-Ru nelords-Anniversary-Edition


There are familiars that gives +4 to initiative.

When you are able to talk to them (1st level if a raven) they can be good scouts. They are inteeligent and their size is an advantage when sneaking. If the master has the appropiate knowledge skill they might recognize monsters.

You can cast polymorph spells on them if you want an extra combatant, e.g. transforming your little kitty into a leopard or lion.

Generally in combat they will hide behind their master or move away.

Monkeys and some improved familiars can manipulate objects and use UMD if the master has the skill, so might be equipped with a wand.


MrVergee wrote:

Guide to Korvosa is a must-have. It will allow you to make the city come to life.

I'd say it was so necessary it should be included in the hardback.

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