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Ok so I have a question I don't think I've seen asked.
How much do the NPCs Laori and Sial know about Scarwall? From what I'm reading in the chapter, they know Serithtial is a sword and that she's within the castle somewhere as well as they cannot wield her which is why they need the PCs. Do they know anything about the castle itself or the dangers they face (other than its exact location)?
I ask because my PCs spent time grilling old Akram about his knowledge of the Cindermaw, and I have a feeling they're going to grill the 'Ally' when it comes to heading that direction.
What did others give out?
I'm not much help, because my party didn't trust Sial as far as their gnome could throw him, and they trusted Laori to warn them of anything she knew of.
My overall take would be this: Although Zon Kuthon wants the party to have the sword to 'free' Kazavon from his current predicament, he doesn't want the party to wholesale slaughter his worshippers. So he'd probably let Laori and Sial know that the sword is beneath the Star Tower. There's no reason for the party to break the chains and free Mithrodar; they can get into the Star Tower without killing Mithrodar, and without killing the bishop. In fact, Mithrodar is suffering so deliciously that Zon Kuthon would almost certainly want him to remain where he is for eternity.
So:
(a) The Brotherhood of Bones knows only what Zon Kuthon gives them, unless you want to be overly-generous and have them in possession of some handed-down lore from some escapees from when Scarwall fell.
(b) In my mind, Zon Kuthon wants the dirty adventurers in and out of there ASAP, doing as little damage to his wonderful world of torment as possible.
The only problem with this approach is that you end up with PCs who decide to make a beeline for the tower, forsaking any and all experience opportunities in Scarwall just to get the sword. I resolved this by removing the secret door into the Star Tower: The only entrance (short of drilling through the stone) was through the roof, and that doesn't activate until Mithrodar is dead. If the PCs desperately want to leave all that experience and treasure behind, and have the means to burrow through stone, let them make their beeline.
And, since I'm reading the other thread you're on, I DO NOT think Sial and Laori should know about Mr. Floating Head. The lead-lined doors, the opposing Forbiddance spells, and the overwhelming sense of, "We're in a Very Very Bad place," should be enough. Any party blinding running into Mr. Happy TPK really wasn't paying much attention...
One could also say that the entire tower is protected, and that the only way to even open/find the secret door is to defeat all the anchors/mithrodar. I may go that route, but I am still re-reading the chapter so I may come up with other ideas as I go.
I do agree that they shouldn't know much about the actual denziens of the castle, as they have never been there themselves, and the whole place has been for the most part isolated from the world. My take is they'd know he had many powerful generals during his time, and that the castle itself is suffused with delightful pain and evil, but what/whom is actually remaining is a mystery, since fellow followers likely went out to investigate, and never came back.
...that could be an interesting sidebar encounter for the party, finding a failed mission group of Kuthites who tried to investigate the place sometime after Kazavon's fall, perhaps eaten by a hungry umbral dragon?
I am assuming they will side with Laori for this episode, in which I will have her squeal with delight at some of the rooms and monsters there, adding sidebars about how "cool" it must have been to live here during Kazavon's residence! I am kind of sad they likely won't try 'converting' her though. I've heard of some hilarity involving this.
Ok, next bit in my planning process is building "ambiance". We will unfortunately be playing during the day, so making the playspace dark and scary will be hard, but I bought some candles to hopefully help put them in the right mindset.
Second thing I was thinking of adding was some scary background music to play in the background. Does anyone have any particular tracks/cds that worked well for your group? I GM certain things from my laptop so iTunes will work good for this, I just need to get some items on my list. I will even take particular suggestions for certain fights....I think I have a suitably creepy song for Danse Macabre.
Anything else someone did that worked well? Embellishments on the descriptions? Particularly creepy haunt additions?
Thanks!
Well, depending on how far you get in the next couple of weeks. It doesn't seem like your group will really be getting deep into Scarwall until September. You could always start decorating for Halloween a little earlier this year if you're looking to add more atmosphere in a fun, spooky sort of way.
Some of the Haunts from Carrion Crown could work well to enhance the dungeon and add a bit more difficulty here or there.
If you're looking for extra inspiration you could watch some of the Hellraiser movies since they're perfect for Zon-Kuthon's religion and the Kytons. In fact, why not throw an extra Kyton into the mix - maybe a couple of Interlocutors from Bestiary 3 to add some extra flavor.
As for music, horror movie soundtracks are usually a reliable method. Nox Arcana has some great stuff for this sort of thing as well. The Silent Hill soundtracks are also a tried-and-true staple of eerie background music for gaming but they can get a little oppressive at times.
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The Hero of Time is a fan made Legend of Zelda and the Ocarina of Time movie. It has an awesome soundtrack made by George R. Powell. The link takes you to where you can download it it (at the top, click on the HERE link). It also has some samples for you to listen too.
It's all Zelda themed music, but there's some darker scores in there, like the introduction of Ganondorf, and the final fight between the Link and Ganondorf, or the fight with the Dragon in Death Mountain.
Night on Bald Mountain is a classic horror theme and I think it could definitely have a place in your play list. I imagine it would work well for some of the more major fights, like against the Demilich, the Dragon/gargoyels, or... wow, I really can't remember anyone's name right now, but the Big Demon himself.
A lot of video games have some great background and battle scenes as well, like Skyrim, or the WoW soundtracks. However, I think you might be looking for more of a horror theme than the epic fantasy that Skyrim or WoW have. You might look into games like Dante's Inferno or F.E.A.R. or Jericho. I've never really played either of the three (messed around a bit on Jericho though) so I can't tell you if they have the music you're looking for, but games like that might be a good place to start.
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Don't forget to queue up Camille Saint-Saens' "Danse Macabre" for the Dance Macabre fight as recommended in the side bar.
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I'd like to do a campaign with Kazavon as the BBEG, and the players as Mandraivus and his companions. However, I can't figure out why Kazavon fled to room 42. I would have chosen a bigger room for the last battle (like room 9 or 14) or more likely, I would have taken it outside.
Was there any reason for this poor choice?
Maybe I am just missing it, but I have not found mention of this with a quick search...
The price in chains is stated out in the bestiary section, but I can not find him integrated into castle Scarwall anywhere. Where is he? Was he removed? I am not sure it makes sense for him to attack since Zon Kuthon wants the queen laid low, but maybe it makes sense for him to test the party to make sure they are up to the task? In this case, would it makes sense to insert the prince in chains in place of the 4 gugs in room 46? I feel like he would be a much more rewarding encounter than the gugs.
Yeah, I finally found a reference to The Prince in Chains in another section. I find him interesting and he has some great lore surrounding him, but the party would only know some large shadow-like dog is blocking their way, lol. I'll spare them that headache. Besides, I think the Gugs have a decent reason to be there, the subterannian being all connected as it is.
As for the Danse Macabre, I don't expect him to be as problematic for my party - most of them have good will saves as the party is caster heavy. Additionally, we have a bard who loves to grant re-rolls via saving finale. (I think that's the name of the spell.) I'm not even certain that my party will explore that wing of the castle. Currently all they have left is the treasure room (and it's denizen - Belshallam) and then they have to kill Mithrodar, again. Oh yeah, and the Demilich has already regenerated, lol, so they may have to kill him a second time.
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Been working on a playlist for some background music/sound effects and I'd like to share some real gems I've found so far.
Scary Haunted House this one is long, but it's got tons of great sound effects. The only real downside I found in the entire thing, was sounds of a chainsaw in the background. Still, 26 minutes of pure horror sound effects.
Creepy Organ Music I've always thought of the pipe organ as the instrument that personifies evil or gloomy music, this song just fits the bill.
In my search, I happened across a group called Nox Arcana... let me just say, wow. Their entire theme is gothic/horror and they make amazingly dark and creepy songs. Some of my favorite I'll list below.
Castle Dracula This song is just beautiful. I plan on playing it when my party enters the Bishop's area.
Nevermore My god, does this song put chills in my spine. When I heard this song, the most demented look of evil glee crossed my face as I pictured my players' reactions to this playlist, and this song specifically.
Hidden Horrors The deep laugh in this song really just sets the tone. I plan on playing it up as Mithrodar's voice echoing through the halls.
These are just some of the songs I've found and thought I'd share with others looking to set the mood.
I would kill for a nice airial view map of Scarwall, with the roofs on top and the waterline below...
Does anyone have one of those fancy cartography programs and can easily composite it from the existing maps? Or do I really have to draw the whole thing up myself? lol
Ultradan
I'm having a hgard time explaining all the different parts/towers/balconies to my players who are doind an airial survey of the castle before entering it...
Ultradan
Been working on a playlist for some background music/sound effects and I'd like to share some real gems I've found so far.
Scary Haunted House this one is long, but it's got tons of great sound effects. The only real downside I found in the entire thing, was sounds of a chainsaw in the background. Still, 26 minutes of pure horror sound effects.
Creepy Organ Music I've always thought of the pipe organ as the instrument that personifies evil or gloomy music, this song just fits the bill.
In my search, I happened across a group called Nox Arcana... let me just say, wow. Their entire theme is gothic/horror and they make amazingly dark and creepy songs. Some of my favorite I'll list below.
Castle Dracula This song is just beautiful. I plan on playing it when my party enters the Bishop's area.
Nevermore My god, does this song put chills in my spine. When I heard this song, the most demented look of evil glee crossed my face as I pictured my players' reactions to this playlist, and this song specifically.
Hidden Horrors The deep laugh in this song really just sets the tone. I plan on playing it up as Mithrodar's voice echoing through the halls.
These are just some of the songs I've found and thought I'd share with others looking to set the mood.
Great stuff, all of it. The link to Nevermore doesn't work anymore, so here's a new one:
Thanks! Didn't know the Nevermore link broke.
Thanks! Didn't know the Nevermore link broke.
No problem. Thanks again for posting those, it helps me a lot.
If it should help somebody, I've made a SketchUp movie of the Castle, because I had difficulties to see how the levels fit one another....
See it here :
- click here for V1
- click here for V2I can share the SketchUp file if you asked it !
Wow! This is really good. Thanks for sharing this with everyone!
If it should help somebody, I've made a SketchUp movie of the Castle, because I had difficulties to see how the levels fit one another....
See it here :
- click here for V1
- click here for V2I can share the SketchUp file if you asked it !
Wow! amazingly cool!
Simply AMAZING!!!
BIG THANKS!!!
Ultradan
Anyone have any advice on how to handle a Sorcerer who casts Magic Jar in Scarwall? Does she get attacked like Zellara, is this not allowed because of the Dimensional Anchor, or does it simply function as normal?
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As written, Magic Jar works normally and nothing happens to the sorcerer.
However! It might make for a cool scenario for the Sorcerer to have to fight off Scarwall as it attempts to drag his life force into the castle and imprison it.
The Sorcerer could return to his body at anytime (or attempt to) in order to end the spell and be safe from Scarwall. I'd treat it as a sort of Grapple attempt by Scarwall. The party could attempt to dispel the Jar or the Sorcerer's life force if Scarwall starts dragging it back. If the Party casts a spell like Magic Circle vs. Evil or something similar, I'd roll with the black hands of Scarwall being held at bay by the magical barrier, but the spell won't last forever.
As for the effects of Scarwall, I'd treat it like a grapple attempt from a CL 20th Black Tentacles; CMB +25. Flavor it as black, withered hands reaching out from the walls of Scarwall, attempting to grab hold of the Sorcerer's soul. Since the Sorcerer is sort of an incorporeal creature, have him use his Charisma instead of his Strength for CMB/CMD.
People with Ghost Touch weapons could use them to try Sunder the arms (treat as Strength 18, Dex 0, BAB 20 +1 size for a CMD of 30). Every time an arm is sundered (1 hp), it vanishes, but a new one forms from the wall to replace it. Sundering would only buy the Sorcerer time, and won't be able to hold off Scarwall forever. Magical, but non-Ghost Touch weapons could work, but they suffer a 50% miss chance, instead of half-damage.
Spells that deal damage can be used to destroy the arms, with AoE spells like Fireball being very effective in destroying huge swaths of them, but it doesn't really matter that much as Scarwall can re-produce the arms endlessly. If asked why, just state that the energy used to form the arms is simply re-absorbed by Scarwall; destroying the arms doesn't weaken Scarwall in any way.
I would say, on the first round, only one arm appears, but after every round, a new one is added. Eventually, there will be more arms than the players can conceivably deal with. The arms are entirely focused on the Sorcerer, ignoring all other players, even provoking attacks of opportunity. Give the arms a movement speed of 10 ft. so the Sorcer has a chance to escape the grapple of the arms before being drawn into the walls of Scarwall.
If the Party and Sorcerer fail to fend off the tentacles, and the Sorcerer is captured by Scarwall, he dies, and his soul is stuck inside Scarwall until the curse on Scarwall is lifted, just like any other soul.
Now, the above is how I would handle such a scenario, as I think it would make for a cool story. You don't have to if you don't wish to, especially if Magic Jar is a main form of attack for the Sorcerer.
I like it, thanks Tels
Just an observation:
If the PCs can move quickly, they'll bypass the last two encounters of Scarwall. Jumping into the blue-light shaft gets them past Idlevrok since he won't pursue. Kleestad has no good way to deal with flyers and he's too big to pursue down the tunnels.For my campaign, they flew down the blue-shaft, flew out to the island to grab the sword, and left. Kleestad got in one breath weapon before the party disappeared down the tunnels.
If you don't want things that easy, Idlevrok could be the only one to open the blue-light shaft and not until he gets a curate. A portcullis the gugs can close would keep the flyers from fleeing (and give a thief something to do).
Last night, my party did exactly as DMFTodd described:
They were frightened by Ildervok (nightwing) and jumped down the foggy shaft (it was at the foot of the stairs, afterall...). They all had fly or Wind Walk spells running.The 20-foot ceiling and ominous lake made it an easy choice to keep flying over the Gugs and grab the sword. As DMFTodd predicted, Kleestad couldn't keep up with the group, but did get to use his breath weapon twice before the party escaped.
My party is getting close, and they're all flying. I think I'm just going to say that the sword doesn't slide out of the stone as long as Kleestad is alive.
Or maybe that's mean, and I should just let them have an easy win. It seems anticlimactic, though.
Creative Director
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I have a rules question regarding the Spirit Blessing that the PCs are given at the beginning of Skeletons of Scarwall:
It's the italicized part that I'm not sure on. Does this mean that the abilities disappear at the end of the book? Or are they permanent?The sudden influx of spiritual energy gives each PC two additional benefits to aid them in their trials within Scarwall, as detailed below.
Infused Weapon and Armor: The spirit world infuses one weapon, suit of armor, or shield owned by each of the PCs (even if the item in question is not present at the blessing). If the PC chooses a weapon, it gains the undead bane weapon quality. If the PC chooses armor or shield, the chosen protection gains the ghost touch armor quality.
Infused Soul: The next time the PC fails a saving throw against a death effect, that effect is negated but the PC is stunned for one round as the spiritual energies in his soul are burnt away. This protection can save each PC only once from a death effect.
It means it' permanent as long as they are in Scarwall. If they finish this book, then go on to the next adventure back in Korvosa, these bonuses vanish. But then if they return to Scarwall 20 years later for whatever reason, they get the bonus back... although at that point, I'm pretty sure they won't need the bonuses.
We went in killed things, got killed in return, then came out with Serithtiel.
Remember the scale of those maps is 10 ft. per square rather than 5 ft. I've seen people make that mistake before.
I will say Scrawall is one of the most complicated dungeons I have ever run, given all of the limitations on magic and the changing conditions as anchors are defeated, plus the various relationships between denizens of the castle.
I never got to finish Scarwall, the group I was running it for broke up during it. But we have a 6ft by 3ft plexiglass sheet with 1 inch squares carved into it. So we just drew out as much as we could and then just erased and redraw as needed. Another player was mapping it all on grid paper so the players could keep track of the castle.
I redesigned the maps, then drew out each room on Gaming Paper and meticulously cut out each with scissors. During the game I laid down each room as they encountered it.
Skeletons of Scarwall from the hardcover: I see they have changed Shadowcount Sial from a cleric to an unchained summoner. I had planned to make him an Exalted of Zon-Kuthon. Anyone have thoughts on the subject? I could really use some input.
Quick hardcover question: In the original, when the PCs attempted to approach Scarwall by air, they were eventually attacked by Belshallam
As these creatures shriek and flap out to confront the PCs, an even more dangerous creature, the umbral dragon Belshallam, may be roused from his slumber and could come to investigate the noise as well (see area 10).
In the hardcover, they modified this to be Aerilaya
Alternatively, if the PCs approach via flight but stay close to the ground or the castle walls, the PCs are attacked by the banshee Aerilaya (area D16).
However, Belshallam's description still makes it sound like if the PCs engage the gargoyles (OR if Aerilaya gets off a wail) he'll come out:
Also, if the gargoyles in the minarets above attack the PCs (especially if they move to intercept PCs approaching the castle via flight), their loud shrieking and roars of excitement might alert Belshallam. If the dragon succeeds at a DC 10 Perception check, he wakes up and leaves his lair to take a few circling flights around Scarwall and see if something exciting is happening.
So my take is that if the PCs come in low, they face the banshee. If they come in high, they face the gargoyles. In either case, if they make enough noise, they then have the pleasure of facing Belshallam in the air.
Or was it just an oversight that Belshallam's text wasn't modified in the update?
Regarding the new phantasms and the more horror elements of Scarwall in the hardcover, how would people adapt that to the virtual table?
Taking players out of the room I could switch channel on TS with the player, or just send a whisper in the client.
Asking for random rolls etc. I can do over voice, but the part where you write them down to worry the players wouldn't be see by them. I had considered asking them to write it themselves.
Any other ideas people have? I am really looking to make Scarwall have a creepy atmosphere without being too gimmicky or cheesy, I want my players to remember it as "that crazy haunted castle". I was lucky enough to get Horror Adventures as present today and will be reading through that as well.
If it were me, to avoid arousing suspicion among the other players, I'd do it via text (typing directly with that player) rather than audio. The audio lets you interact a bit more, but it lets the other players know somethings's happening. Typing has the massive advantage of keeping 1-on-1 interactions a secret.
Personally, I don't like a lot of the, "Have everyone roll and write them down" mechanics. Doing it once or twice creeps the players out. Doing it half a dozen times (as it seems like they do in the updated Scarwall) grows trite and tired.
Play more off of your imagination, and less off of the "script". What would be the creepiest thing for the players to find here? Have they been discussing something it would be horrible/horrifying to find? Have them find it, only to have it dissolve into mist as they approach.
Play it like what it is: An (un)living, malevolent, haunted castle. It knows what they're saying. It knows what'll creep them out. Have it do it. Game mechanics? Meh. They're all "phantasms" so you can do whatever you want.
My family still considers Scarwall the single-best book I've ever run. And I ran the nearly-empty original edition, so I had plenty of "play space" to add my own touches.
As I posted, the "new" Scarwall seems way, way too crowded. Pull out some of the phantasms and haunts and make up your own -- ones that play along with whatever your players seem to be thinking at the moment...
So, the only reference I can find to Scarwall and eidolons is my own post from 2012.
So it just happened in the hardcover: Asyra "died" and failed her Will save. My assumption is that this means she's trapped and Sial cannot summon her again until the curse is lifted.
Does that match other people's interpretations of eidolons and Scarwall?
Contributor
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It's open to interpretation. Since outsiders don't have souls separate from their bodies, it could be argued that soul bind (which the curse duplicates) doesn't work on them.
Since the curse is Zon-Kuthon's work and Sial is a loyal servant, I'd say you have some latitude in deciding what happens to Asyra (based on what's best for your game). ^_^
Sorry if these have been asked before, but this is a super long thread.
I'm getting ready to run this chapter for my group and had some questions:
1) How much information can the characters gather about the Scarwall curse and how to defeat it? What are there best sources for that information? It would be nice to know what they can learn and prepare for vs. what they will have to deal with on the fly.
2) What's the effect of the soultrapping aspect of the curse on spells that can return characters back to life? In the description, it says once a soul is bound, Resurrection is required. Does that mean as long is the soul isn't yet trapped that spells like Breath of Life and Raise Dead can be used? My party does not have any clerics (currently one oracle) so they'll be going into this chapter without the ability to resurrect which seems like a potentially big deal.
Sorry if these have been asked before, but this is a super long thread.
I'm getting ready to run this chapter for my group and had some questions:
1) How much information can the characters gather about the Scarwall curse and how to defeat it? What are there best sources for that information? It would be nice to know what they can learn and prepare for vs. what they will have to deal with on the fly.
Having run this AP twice now, my strong suggestion is, "Do not give the party any additional information beyond Zellara's speech."
She's pretty darned explicit: "Four enthralled in lost Scarwall... to keep her spirit chained...death of the dead, Keys to Kazavon humbled."Both of my groups took under 5 minutes to read that poem and figure out, "OK, there are 4 guardians we have to find and defeat to free Serithtial, whatever he/she/it is."
One of the wonders of Scarwall is the creepy mystery of it all. Taking away from that mystery would be unwise. They get the poem. That should be enough.
2) What's the effect of the soultrapping aspect of the curse on spells that can return characters back to life? In the description, it says once a soul is bound, Resurrection is required. Does that mean as long is the soul isn't yet trapped that spells like Breath of Life and Raise Dead can be used? My party does not have any clerics (currently one oracle) so they'll be going into this chapter without the ability to resurrect which seems like a potentially big deal.
My first group ran with no cleric, but that was in the original edition where both Sial and Laori were clerics. They had very little trouble, because they were a cooperative group, so the only one to die was Sial, and nobody cared. The second group has had 3 party deaths so far, and only Asyra got trapped, so again, nobody particularly worries about it.
*MY* personal take is that healing spells that impart negative levels (Breath of Life, Raise Dead, and so forth) cause those negative levels because they're forcing a departing soul back into the body. Thus, if Bob the Barbarian went to -25 hit points and was "dead", he'd have to make the save against soultrapping immediately, and only if he saved would Breath of Life work on him. But yes, once he SUCCEEDS on the save, Breath of Life works, no problemo.
Scarwall is supposed to be a scary, scary, "playing for keeps" place. Putting on the kid gloves to keep PCs alive or avoid the soultrapping will detract from the overall "feel" of Scarwall, so I advise against it.
The only exception is the demilich. An unprepared party just walks up and suffers a TPK. That's not fun for anyone. So give them LOTS of warning about it.
I also don't care for the banshee in the new edition for the same reasons: "Oh, you didn't cast Death Ward? Everyone dies."
Other than that, I strongly encourage you to run Scarwall and the soultrapping as-written. It really makes for an epic, memorable book.
EDIT: I've asked two of my players to input on this here. I know, I know, "GM Only" thread, but I think their perspectives will be useful. Torath (or whatever alias he chooses to use) is in the second, "far less fun" Scarwall run, where we have a party that just doesn't care. So he'll be a good counterpoint. Gothbard has been through both, so she knows how fun Scarwall can be (first run), and how frustrating it can be (second run), and she might have insight into the differences, since it was the same GM (me) both times.
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Sorry if these have been asked before, but this is a super long thread.
I'm getting ready to run this chapter for my group and had some questions:
1) How much information can the characters gather about the Scarwall curse...
2)What's the effect of the soultrapping aspect of the curse on spells...
So, having not run this as a GM I can only give you the player side view of these two items.
First, the puzzle... given the speech, in writing / on paper to look over as a player it was very easy to make a pretty good guess about what needs be done. It doesn't make it simple, and it is fairly vague on specifics, but you KNOW when you defeat one of the important NPCs vs a random monster. At that point, you can totally understand that portion of the clue. I think that would work for nearly any group of players, however for younger groups perhaps you could have one of the NPCs sneeringly remark about the terribly obvious clue and just spell out you need to (in equally vague terms) get rid of some number of important bad guys then finish up. I doubt most players would need even that level of help though.
Secondly... the soul-trapping aspect and curses. I see this as more of a writer's tool for making what is just a typical dungeon encounter with a couple of random NPCs tagging along into a dangerous situation. I see similar things in many APs, and I find them to be fine for the groups I play in / with. As a GM though, you need to be the judge of your group. Are they role play heavy, very invested in their characters sorts that would take a perm-death very badly? Are they cautious enough and strong enough tacticians that such a death is unlikely? And finally, do you roll behind a GM's screen? (that last mostly as a joke).
If you can't answer those last questions about your players, then I suggest you ask them what they think of it. Nothing wrong with getting the popular vote on it, player to GM. Personally I say keep the curses in and let the players enjoy the risk, just have a well thought out way to begin a new character for people and realize that a TPK can be quite un-recoverable for a solid RP oriented party.
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Final note: In the original, the PCs go through at 12th level. In the update, they go through at 13th-14th level. I think this is a terrible idea, as my second group is much more of the attitude, "Well, everything in here is 'Evil', so we're allowed to kill it without repercussions, and we're strong enough to do so, so let's just kill everything in our path, go out to rest whenever we need to, and it'll be a piece of cake."
The new version somehow added 100% more encounters, yet made the whole place seem LESS dangerous. Go figure.
In the original, my group spent a HUGE amount of time actually talking to the residents who were willing to talk, learning about the curse, and figuring out what needed to be done, and how to do it in the most expedient manner.
In the follow-up, both because of the makeup of the players, the size of the group, and the additional levels, the party is far more of the mind, "Well, if we explore every room and kill everything we encounter, we'll be done. Who needs to talk? It's just a waste of time before we kill 'em anyway."
So different styles of player have led to vastly different Scarwall experiences for the two groups. (I still wince at having to run the second group through the rest of it, when they're barely 1/3 of the way through and already bored with the whole thing.)
Thanks for the comments on investigating the curse. I have a group that really likes to be prepared, but I agree that having them discover a lot of this through play would lead to the best overall experience. I'll be sure to refer them back to the poem. I was thinking about letting them know some of the history that led to Kazavon's death, but I'm thinking better of it now. It's long forgotten knowledge at thin point, as far as I'm concerned. After all, the Shoanti barely knew anything about him in the previous chapter and they were the keepers of this knowledge. I'll also make some allusions to the infusion abilities they received at the end of the last chapter. They are getting undead-bane weapons or ghost touch armor and one free death save for a reason; there will be a lot of undead, incorporeal and death effects.
*MY* personal take is that healing spells that impart negative levels (Breath of Life, Raise Dead, and so forth) cause those negative levels because they're forcing a departing soul back into the body. Thus, if Bob the Barbarian went to -25 hit points and was "dead", he'd have to make the save against soultrapping immediately, and only if he saved would Breath of Life work on him. But yes, once he SUCCEEDS on the save, Breath of Life works, no problem.
This was going to be my take, too. As long as the spirit made the soultrapping save, they'd be able to be revived with Breath of Life or Raise Dead.
So, we finally wrapped up the hardcover version of Skeletons of Scarwall last session, and our conclusion is unanimous: Use the original version if you have it.
The hardcover version is so crowded, and so full of stuff, that any possible story or interaction is swamped by pointless encounter after pointless encounter. It's a miserable grind. I cut out over 1/3 of all the encounters, had no random encounters, and the players still felt it was too much.
So I suspect players who love classic "monster in every room" dungeon crawls will love it. But players who prefer old-style, "This haunted building is trying to tell us a story" (Foxglove Manor or the Vekker cabin in RotRL, or the original Scarwall in CotCT) will hate the changes.
Just my $0.02.
So, we finally wrapped up the hardcover version of Skeletons of Scarwall last session, and our conclusion is unanimous: Use the original version if you have it.Interesting. We just started Chapter 2, so we're not close to Scarwall yet, but I'll keep this in mind when I go to prep.
-Skeld
Well-phrased.
I would describe the original Scarwall as "creepily empty". There was so much open space that I got to add in some of the recommended effects (bloody footprints that appear and lead nowhere, noises around corners, movements in the corner of the PCs' eyes, etc.), and it led to an incredibly-creepy experience as the players kept following hint after hint that led... nowhere. So they really wanted to explore the whole castle, because there just wasn't much there.
**but** if your group likes combat and things happening, it can be an extremely painful slog through... nothing.
The new Scarwall is "annoyingly crowded". It's gone from, "Most of the rooms are empty," to, "There's something happening in almost every room, and almost half are encounters."
As I posted back in February:
Original: 26 set encounters in 47 described rooms
Hardcover: 49 set encounters in 115 described rooms
Having almost double the encounters and more than double the described rooms just makes it soooooooo much slower for players to go through.
Some groups will love it. Some groups will hate it. Mine was of the latter opinion.
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Hey everybody.
I'm running CotCT through Roll20 and I've already put an obscene amount of work and time into prepping for book 5.
Unfortunately in the Deathhead Vault a player who has a habit of running his characters into danger and getting them killed to make new characters caught on that SoS was about undead. Lo and behold his druid was killed.
In an attempt to completely nullify the entire next book he created a mesmerist who is designed to do nothing but control and charm undead. The character has no other purpose and he has gloated pretty openly that his plan is to force every undead creature he comes across to set off traps and be his slaves.
Is there a book from another path of roughly the equated level and power that would allow me to substitute something so this book isn't a completely pointless wash?