james taylor 876's page

I have a few questions about the banner first off does the banner actually apply to the cavalier? Currently it says:

"As long as the cavalier’s banner is clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. The banner must be at least Small or larger and must be displayed on a pole or hung from a lance for this ability to function".

So currently the wording points towards it only affecting his allies.

Also the greater banner ability says:

"The morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge increases to +2".

But the bonus is already at +2 so what does this mean? It’s a bit confusing.

As long as the new wording for the banner says it includes the cavalier in its effects I will be happy.

Also technically ammunition is classed as a weapon so for the purposes of the ability you could argue that as only the ammo strikes the oracle only the ammo would be subject to damage which in most cases would make her immune to missile weapons.

Adimitidly if you use a weapon you will strugle but grappleing her, pinning her and then tieing her up is about the best bet for any fighting class after youve done that i imagine a coup de gra could soon follow.

Does anyone else think the cavalier could use a bonus for saves vs. Fear/Charm?
Ok so I’m currently playing a level 6 order of the sword Cavalier for our group’s campaign and I’m playing him as a bold and noble knight. Now I would not exactly call myself a veteran role player as I’ve only been playing for about 4 maybe 5 months and i have got to say I’m really enjoying playing with the class as it is.

My only real problem with the current incarnation is that the cavaliers will save is still quite poor. Now I don’t have to tell any of you how nasty fear/charm can be and currently this class really suffers against those affects. for the current campaign we had a 20 point buy which left me with a wisdom of 12 leaving me with a will save +5 as I chose this save over the others to get the by my honour bonus although for if I’d been of a different order id of only had +3. Now currently my cavalier is on a par with a fighter of the same level on saves vs. Fear however his save only increases and when we are both at level 20 the fighter will have a save of +12 (assuming he also has a wisdom bonus of +1) where as I have a general will save of +9 (although that would only be +7 for other orders) this may not look like allot at a glance but I believe it could make a big difference. I don’t think I’m asking for much for this class just a relatively minor buff that will make him more playable.

Also as a side note how does a character that lives by strict convictions and ideals have such a low will power?

Well what does everyone think?

Well the new version of the cavalier seems certainly very scary on horseback with a lance in a challenge. You’re looking at level 20.

+5 for a strength 20 cavalier, +10 for his horse, +20 for his levels and +D8 for the lance giving a minimum damage of 108. If you critically hit you have a minimum damage 324 almost enough to instant kill an ancient red dragon (if I read the rules right).

Now the current version of the challenge works allot like the smite ability for the paladin but with a few big differences which I’m fine with as I believe that the classes are different enough in other ways and it gets away from the random precision damage they had before which I wasn’t a fan of (also id like to see an extra challenge feat).

As I said before the cavalier is capable of tremendous damage against his enemies (although if they cause fear he'll still turn and run as his will save vs. fear still sucks) but if he can cause so much damage on the charge potentially slaying most opponents doesn’t that render his level 20 ability a bit useless? After all it’s pointless to be able stun a corpse or even to shake it so perhaps a new ability is needed there with all the damage he can dish out I honestly wouldn’t mind a save or die ability on one of his charge attacks per day or even a supreme challenge ability which removes all his negatives and gives him a bonus to hit.
For the cavaliers mounts I’m fine with them as they are as I like the way they work.
The tactical feats are really pretty good for the cavalier as it gives his allies the ability to really pummel a big monster (paired opportunists or out flank) as unlike the inquisitor he grants it to those around him instead of them mealy counts them as having it for his own use of the feat this makes the cavalier more than a one trick pony and a real team player.
As I mentioned before his save vs. fear still sucks and needs fixing.
I suppose that’s all I have to say for now.

It shows i like this congratz.

I think that the combat manoeuvres should work with any "knightly" weapon wielded (swords, lances, maces, ect). I believe that in the case of combat manoeuvres the extra momentum and weight provided by the mount should grant the bonus in a way that makes sense. I totally agree with Rockhopper that this needs clarifying however.

I personally think that the mighty charge is currently a little over powered. It is also my opinion that this ability should stay mounted only as the cavalier is dangerous enough on foot as it is because of his challenge.

I believe that a few of the people above myself included mentioned a bonus to combat manoeuvres while in the challenge I think this would work better rather than just being on the charge as it suites the classes style better.

As for demanding challenge id just make it a flat -1AC for each attack he allocates to a challenged foe, though this penalty would only apply to attacks made by players other than the cavalier and should probably only apply to melee attacks.

You can have double damage just take the spirited charge feat.

Ok so I think that we have a fairly solid "idea" here however I feel it’s time to actually play test it. I'm going to se my Gm about the changes you guys and myself suggested and begin play testing at lvl 6 if someone else could play test at a higher level please do I'd be interested in how it works out. Please record and include your version of the "challenge" advancement table with your play test results and your personal account of how things went and what could be improved upon. My group meets on Friday so you can expect to see something on Saturday afternoon.

Well there isn't one really. You can charge with any other weapon you like and besides doesn't chargeing with a lance provide enough flair as it is?

I think level 10 is leavening it a bit late in the class as it would leave you lacking any sort of special offence early on. I think that level 6 is about the right time to kick off the critical advancements until that level other defensive and confirmation bonuses could be acquired. I would say don’t forget that these bonuses only apply in a challenge (and let’s not forget the flanking negative that you pick up for using the ability) and to get the big benefits from it you’re going to have to invest a lot of levels. As for the mounted idea I personally think that would limit the abilities use too much and make it to situational. I just don’t think that when a cavalier enters a dungeon that he should be leavening all his abilities at the door.

Hi this thread isn't really for discussion rather it’s an amalgamation of ideas in there refined form for the perusal of Jason. Basically I want people to post good ideas (Theirs or other peoples) for class improvements from other threads to help ensure no idea or point of view is missed.

Well it looks like we have a solid idea it just needs polishing anyone know how we can get Mr Bulmahn to take a look at it? I think his insight could help.

I don’t know about that the whole focus of the class seems to be mounted combat and 1on1 combat so I don’t think an ability to charge multiple people works for the Cavalier as a class it just doesn’t fit with the flavour.

That wasn’t a point I had considered thanks for bringing that up. I would probably provide bonuses to confirm a crit only at low levels ensuring that a Character who wants the bonuses to threat range, damage multiplier, and flat crit damage should be in it for the long haul. I also like your defensive idea as this fits in well with the whole theme. I purpose something like the following. Allowing a cavalier to add his class level to rolls to confirm critical hits, at 6th lvl and every 4 lvls there after a cavalier adds 1 to the threat range of his weapon and At lvl 8 and every 4 lvls after he adds 1 to the multiply of his weapon. Needless to say the flat damage should be a very high lvl ability however as a prelude to it allowing an ability to reroll ones perhaps? As for the defensive bonuses you suggest I would make them start early and make them only count against the “victim” of the “challenge” (tough its my suspicion that’s what you meant ;) ) and only when he’s threatening you.

The oath of valour would be a nice feature and a real boon to a class that is desighned to fight big scary things.

Also as an afterthought a cavalier’s crit in a “challenge” could bypass certain Damage reduction types at different levels.

How does that work exactly?

Also I would like to suggest Knightly Paragon as the name of his capstone ability should it fit.

I think that this is about the best way to handle the "challenge" as it makes the class unique and gives it its own mechanic i hope Mr Bulmahn sees these last few posts.

As for the crit multiplier I was thinking 1 at 9th-10th then another at 18th-20th.

That kind of brings him into line with the fighter but doesn’t provide all that much in the way of extra damage in a challenge. In my opinion a Cavalier should be doing much more damage than a fighter while he’s in a challenge. Precision damage just plain doesn’t fit the weapons he uses are heavy and designed for slashing at the target or skewering them. Adding class levels provides a fair bonus but makes challenge into a universal smite and that’s obviously not the way. An advancement in damage like you suggest has some good virtues but leaves the cavalier lacking in the damage department.

I purpose something new a fighting style for the cavalier that focuses on scouring more critical hits. As he advances he could gain bonuses like increased threat range, increasing the multiplier of his weapons, auto confirming critical hits and finally maybe even maximising damage on a critical hit. The question is would this be over powered? I personally don’t think so it would allow a luck cavalier to do extraordinary damage in a challenge something the class was designed to do. I would like to put this forward as it’s a new and unique way of fighting and is unlike any other class in the pathfinder rules set.
I would also probably limit this ability to when they are using weapons that are knightly in their nature such as swords, lances, maces, morning stars, ect.
Please note that I’m only talking offensive bonuses here and sysane has a lot of other good add ons the challeng .

I think it would be an anti climax for the class if its last ability wasn’t something that helped it to hideously maul an opponent it just wouldn’t feel right.

As for your idea of a manoeuvrability boost I like it but why give it to the cavalier when his mount could take it instead? Why not has a specific list of feats for the cavaliers mount based on manoeuvrability, speed, check penalties for barding and special bonuses to the mount durability and endurance?

Also another good idea of yours why not let the cavalier pick from special feats that allow him to do all sorts of things in the saddle such as trick riding?

I think it looks quite good although maybe the damage bonus could do with being a bit more heavy duty as +8 is a lot less than a fighter of the same level can manage.

As for the whole concept of a "challenge" I’d prefer it was more an ability that represents the Cavalier fighting harder because he fights for a cause something bigger than himself and doesn't want the dishonour of failure. The Cavalier is an inspired warrior who lives by his convictions and is willing to risk great danger and even death to see that his honour is upheld and that the honour of his order is not stained by his failure.

I could see your point about a challenge related ability being the top feat as this would give the cavalier something he could always use even when on foot this would grant the class more flexibility as well as always being useful. As i have said above a Cavaliers abilities stem from his self confidence and the challenge reflects that well and is a really character full mechanic so perhaps a range of challenge specific feats are in order culminating in some heroic level 20 ability.

I’d be uneasy about giving out more additional damage dice to the cavalier as he already has the challenge ability aside from that it’s a good idea. A buff for this last ability is required though and if not the save or die ability either maximising the damage dealt or perhaps dealing an automatic critical?

I’ve been looking at some of the threads and there are a few people that think the Cavaliers capstone ability is a little weak so i would like to suggest the following.

Deadly charge (ex): On horseback few can match the cavalier’s skill, putting the full weight of horse and rider behind his lance. Once per day when mounted and armed with a lance a cavalier may make a special charge attack. If the attack hits the foe takes the normal damage and must pass a save or die if the save is passed the opponent is staggered for 1d4 rounds.

I’m aware that a number of these abilities already exist I’m just throwing it out there, as for which save should be taken either fortitude or reflex. Personally i favour reflex as I don’t think it matters how tough you are when a lance is driven through anything vital such as brain, heart, spine, ect you either dodge out of the way of the full force of the impact or die.

As for the Cavaliers other abilities id like to see more that stem from the Cavaliers convictions in the fluff it says they dedicate themselves to ideals. While a Paladins powers come from his faith in his god a cavaliers should come from his faith in himself and he should always strive to push himself to be better perhaps abilities that reflect his self confidence would be a good idea.

There seems to be a lot of concern about the cavaliers challenge ability not affecting intelligent creatures. First of all that can easily be fixed by renaming the feat something like combat focus (I’m aware the name needs work) there by removing the need for the opponent to accept any challenge. Second of all I think that random precision damage is a little wrong and instead a cavalier should be focused on defeating this one foe, bringing all his strength and skill to bear opening his opponents guard (possibly making it easier to hit with subsequent attacks) driving him back, dealing more normal damage than usual and possibly even ignoring his wounds and the blows of his opponents as he advances with grim determination to destroy his foe.

possible bonuses for this could be to hit bonuses, damage boosts, free combat manoeuvres, special abilities to lower the opponents ac against your next attack, abilities to stagger or stun your opponents and possibly DR/ as your focus drives you on and lets you ignore pain.

Well there’s some suggestions can anyone expand?

Hi im quite new at RP but 1 thing that strikes me about the cavalier is his lack of bonuses vs fear. Paladins, Fighters and Barbarians all have either immunity to fear or a special ability that grants them bonuses against it cavaliers currently don't. I think that possibly a new oath could be introduced something like the oath of courage where the knight swears to act with courage and bravely in the face of danger and gains a bonus to his save vs fear or at a high level even total immunity if that wouldn't be takeing it to far.