glenstryder's page

On my experience straight Fighters are very very good archers if your main concern is attack/damage/AC. The weapon training and weapon specialization makes a huge difference in terms of damages and attack compared with other builds.

Obviously a Paladin Archer will be awesome against evil outsiders but will be outdamaged against any other opponents.
Ranger have better skills but clearly not the same AC ( armor training for the win) and attack/damage. Against the main ennemy they may be better but that's all.

Zen Archers are really really not good enough. Again weapon training / better AC and HP for the fighter. (at high level or with a LOT of stuff, the monk may have better AC)

If you really do the math Ravindork is right and the best build is fighter. Maybe another build can shine more on a specific encounter and for a limited amount of time but believe me, the Pathfinder Fighter is so good (too good IMHO) you will be suprised.

Because I think about the game, the pace of the game, keeping everyone involved, keeping the drama high, keeping the immersion high, insisting on in character actions, prepping NPC speeches, focusing on dramatic encounters and fights. I make tons of notes. I'm sure all of you do too. But for me its like a performance. When it is game night, I'm on like a performer and I want to be ready.

OCD, perhaps. :)

I kind of behave the same (maybe with a bit less of preparation ^^).

And another question, how do you handle pace with mid higher level plays? ( where fights take longer and actions/spells are a lot more complicated)

You should create a topic on DMing :D

Thanks!

Teleport, while useful, can usually be covered by scrolls.

Plus Teleport is already on the witch spelllist.

I do agree with Caineach, time is not that good if you already have a sorc for haste.
I do like elements when you don't have a blaster in the party or in a undead heavy campaign ( I play one in our CotCT campaign ). But if not then your classic spells will be usefull the most part of the time.

In your case I would take animals (for flavor and synergy with animal companions/mount) or deception (for defense). The witch is very fragile and has no real defensive spells so blink/invis is very good (and you can heal buff your companion while invisible)

Thanks for the guide Jadeite.

I have a quick question:

Why do you say that we must choose between bane and judgement as they are both swift actions.

Is n't it just the "change" of bane type and "change" of judgement that requires a swift action?

I really don't understand this "Tier" thing and the fighter rank

Fights are never one versus one or one versus different ennemies.
It's always a group versus ennemies and in that regard I really think that the pathfinder fighter is a killing machine.

The damage output and the attack bonus of this class is so amazing that I do think it's one of the most efficient class. And thanks to feats like the trip chain it can also have some controls on the battlefield.

And dealing damage and being able to hit is always good, whatever the situation

Plus right now I'm fighting ONLY vampires, so my witch was really really limited.

This is exactly why I choose the elemental patron. I missed the invisibility for some time but I got a invis ring!

But flaming sphere and fireball ARE nice when you fight undead monsters.

I am level 7 and I am going to take feats to improve my fireball blasts ( spell focus and soon empower spell ).

But I do agree with all what was said. I really miss some defense spells...

I didn't take summon monster spells before cause I though they were overpowered before reading the full round casting time which makes them just very good spells. Now I need to find and buy some scrolls for that ^^

I've leveled up and am now looking for the best beast shape 4 forms (for combat). Anyone care to help me find them?

I am curious regarding the efficiency of your character.

What are your character stats?

It seems to me that the base attack bonus of the wizard is too low to be really efficient, isn't it? I understand that damage can be ok with arcane strike and huge strength but because of size penalty, all beast shape give only +1 bonus to attack.

This weekend, we had a 6th-level lion shaman druid as part of our Pathfinder Society games. This guy was painfully potent, dishing out a crapton of damage (80+ points) with his pounce.

This issue mainly comes from a big change from 3.5 to pathfinder.

This makes animal more dangerous but make druid and animal companion awfully unbalanced and powerfull at low to mid levels (and summon spells too)

This also makes monsters like ghouls (CR1) awfully strong.

really a good idea that turned bad.

If you´re still playing a FulL Casting Class, that is what it´s power will be based around.

I agree , that's why I wanted feedback about high level druids.

And yes they are great combat spells I agree, I was wrong.

Like Mojo said, big single damage like T-Rex can rock with Vital Strike

Can you shift as a T rex as a druid? I can't find that, really.

For the spells AGAIN i find them nice for a caster druid. Not for a shifting druid. I do mean they don't add flavour to the shifing aspect of the druid.

Maybe a shift-oriented build is not good , but that's exactly my point :)

Pounce is great, but it isn't the end all and be all. Don't forget about the ability to wildshape into creatures with just one primary attack and use the vital strike feat chain. (Is the triceratops shuffle still viable? I'm not sure on that one.)

Also, if you're not excited about high level druid casting, you're reading the wrong spell list. From just level 6: Antilife shell, Find the Path, Live Oak, Transport Via Plants. You really can't get excited about those?

These are nice spells it's true. But they are level 6 :D

If I build a shifting druid and I think of my druid as a shifting druid, I would like to gain features in terms of shifting as I gain new levels.

I really like the caster druid with a strong animal compaanion that just shifts for special qualities. I think it has some nice options, I was really talking about the excitmeent of gaining levels as a shifter oriented druid.

the thing you seem to be forgetting is Druids ate full casters. this means they are. iablevat /ALL/ levels.

your assumption that only shapes that have pounce are viable honestly is wrong. turning I go a t Rex and swallowing peoplevwhole with your colossal + bite due to the strong jaw spell after you fly behind the enemy caster all while having full casti g..

I don't seeva downside

You can't shift as a Trex with wildshape and you won't have swallow hole (druid get beast shape as beast shape3 )

Hello,

In a previous campaign I made a druid. We stopped at level 4, but I did look a lot at what my character could do in future levels and I was kinda frustrated (I know it may seem strange, but when I play a character I like to dream about what he ll be able to do at higher level)

there are a lot of things I don't really like for High level druids.
Here I won't talk about balancing versus other classes, just the class itself. Druid is very powerfull, maybe even OP at some point if taking a lion type animal companion, but it's not what I want to talk about.

My asumption is that the druid is very good at low/medium levels.
The animal companion is very powerfull and the ability to shift in lion or tiger offers a lot of attacks that makes him the best damage dealer with all buffs on.

However it appears to me that after about level 12, the druid does not gain any exciting features.

The best shape for combat is obtained at level 8 (for the pounce ability)
There are no spells for buffing animal companion or himself after level 5 (animal growth)
And higher level spells are not really good neither in terms of combat (there are great RP or effect spells though)

Also I find it very frustrating that there is no point in shifting into many different types of animal as the "lion" type is really, really really better.

So I would like to have some feedbacks from high level druids. Is it nice to use at higher levels? Are you exciting in gaining new levels, as a wizard may be?

Hello,

Our party recently encountered a party of ghouls and one of them paralzyed the freshly created fighter( his cleric just died because of a coup de grace in the previous game :D)

Was it possible for another adjacent ghoul to perform a coup de grace and kill the fighter? ( it's specified melee weapon in the coup de grace )

If yes, then a ghoul is freaking dangerous!

Thanks for the answer!

I have seen that witches can learn spell from scrolls.
However it is not specified directtly that they can learn from spellbook.

So I suppose it's not possible.

Am I right?

Is a scroll and a spellbook that different?

Thanks

dm_123_456(at)yahoo.com

lets see what all the hub bub is.

I'd love a set too!

you could rule it can be turned on before you shift I suppose, I sure hope Yogi's flaming paws don't accidentally burn down the forest.. he might be voiding his invitation to the annual solistice event.

^^

Of course.
I am sure that my DM will be ok if I ask, but I would like an official ruling in fact ^^

Hello,

I have a question regarding amulet of might fists and whildshape.

I know that while shifted , a druid cannot use objects that needs an activation.
It is told in the "flaming" property description that a flaming object can be turned on using command word.

IMO, a command word object is a object that needs an activation, hence it cannot be used by a shifted druid.

However I see many people here that says they use a flaming amulet with a druid.

Is it possible? Or Am I Right?

About the druid:

I think that you should note that the druid cannot use flaming amulet of might fists while wildshape , as flaming needs a commad word to be activated and it clearly does not work while shifted (which is also why an animal companion cannot use flaming amulet)

Thx

What is the "level" of a Druid/ranger animal companion?

I know that a Ranger 20 animal companion is level 17.
I know that a Druid 20 animal companion is level 20.

For a Druid 14/Ranger6? is it 20? or 17?

Thanks

In which case you use a stegosaurus with improved vital strike for 12d6+12 plus trip damage, or you multiclass to get the 16bab. Really.

Or a triceratops with I.vital strike for a 6d10+12 gore attack(ave 45).

Seriously what is the point on spending 3 feats for an average which is just slowly higher because there is no bonus damage on each attack (enhancement or power attack). As soon as you use amulet of mighty fists +3 and power attack, the tiger becomes better even compared with greater vital strike.

Plus this is only available at really high level and I talk more about levels between 12 and 18 (which are often end-campaign levels).

In fact I think that a balanced idea would be to give the druid the same "multi attack side effect" as the animal companion. (hence having a secondary attack at -5 when the animal does not have multiple attacks)

James Risner wrote:

glenstryder wrote:

3 attacks at 2d6+8/1d8+8/1d8+8 ( average = 40), versus one at 3d6+12(average=21).

There is no match in fact, even with vital strike.

Greater = 12d6+12 = 42 + 12 = 54 damage average

+1

So a naked druid may do better to wildshape into a big biter and vital strike, where one with access to a nice flaming/shocking/freezing amulet should go for lots of attacks.

Makes sense really, it's the same for one big weapon vs TWF with lots of goodies for additional damage.

Greater is 3 feats! and only available at epic level for the druid (bab+16) ^^

glenstryder wrote:

Hello My question is more about shifting than animal companions.

In fact, due to the new rules (that I do understand in part), there is no reason to shift into a huge dinosaurus when you can just shift into a tiger/Lion/cheatah, cat thing that has 3 attacks (even 5 with pounce).

A single attack by a huge creature focusing on that one attack is liable to do as much damage as all the smaller attacks combined, since they are smaller damage dice and even at full BAB some of them might miss.

Well, all the small attacks take full strength bonus. One attack is 1.5 strength bonus.

Take a 18 STR druid with bull strength shifting into a large animal.

That's 26 str, hence +8 damage per attack, +12 for one attack.

3 attacks at 2d6+8/1d8+8/1d8+8 ( average = 40), versus one at 3d6+12(average=21).

There is no match in fact, even with vital strike.

Takamonk wrote:

When animal companions get multi-attack, they get a second attack at -5 if they do not have more than one attack.

I wonder why this isn't the same of all animals in general (and thus druids)?

It's a special exception for animal companions; a perk of being an animal companion. They get this mostly because it helps animals remain relevant at higher levels, because animals start to feel a little wimpy otherwise. You'll note the relative scarcity of animals that are higher than CR 10 in the book... they need SOMETHING to keep them viable at higher levels for animal companions.

Hello My question is more about shifting than animal companions.

I find that a pitty.I think it's because from all the specific stuff of the animal (armor, attacks, dexterity emphasys) you only get the attacks, hence the best thing to do in term of combat is to shift into the thing that has the highest number of attacks (which is even stronger now that 3 attacks can be all primary attacks)

I understand that, it's just sad that this shape is available as soon as level 6-8 ^^ and that nothing after is really better to fight (the elementals are an alternate choice if you prefer to tank/use special attacks than to inflict damages) and that no med/high level spell exists to enhance that shape (which is IMO the real frustrating thing).

I am currently looking at the bestiary to see in what I could shift with my druid.

I can see that there are some fun dinosaurus to change in , but these only have one attack.

Can I use My BAB to perform multiple attacks?
If not, what is the point in shifting into such creature when I can shift into a tiger? (I am quite sure that the Pathfinder designers are found of tigers!)

One of the real flaw of the new druid, is that the shifting stuff power stop evolving past the level 6.

One of the best realistic shape is the tiger (pounce, rake, nice attacks).
You can shift into a tiger at level 6.

You gain nothing past that level which enhance your fighting power (no new spell, no new abilities).
Ok at level 8 you can shift into huge animals, but the huge ones are not that good (maybe the elephant, but it is really really big anyway).
Ok then you can shift into elementals but they are not that powerfull compared with tiger shapes ( grab, rake, pounce....).

I am not saying at all that druids are not good, but find it very frustrating to know that I won't really wait for new cool features in term of pure damage output past level 6.

So a 10th level druid with 23STR With:

Animal growth, GMF, amulet of mighty fists (frost) and rhino hide armor

Transforming into a dire tiger:

Would do an average of over 130 points of damage a round on a pounce if all his attacks hit. And he technically could do something close to this at 8th.

And this does not include any feats other then considering natural spell.

I think that is pretty comparable to your 10th level fighter.

Animal Growth is not possible on a shifted druid.

I am currently playing a melee druid with a cheetah animal companion.
I have made some computing, and from the time I get the animal growth spell, I ll never compare to my pet in term of melee damages.

This is a bit frustrating in fact to know that the animal companion is a killer machine, and that, even by focusing on melee, I ll never be able to be stronger than it...

And as it is possible to summon tigers thanks to summon nature's ally spells, I can also say that these summons are just stronger than you.

I understand that the melee druid is not an awesome killing machine. Because of the strength of the companion, it would not be balanced if it was a real solid melee char. But I still find that really frustrating... ^^

I have some questions regarding wildshape.

At level 8, a druid can shift into a huge animal. Can the druid shift into a huge tiger? or should we find an existing huge animal ( There is no yet in the previews, but I suppose there will be some in the bestiary)

Another question about beast shape.

If I want to wildshape into a large animal. Can I shift into a Dire Tiger (and get the dices of its attacks) or should I shift into a simple tiger?

Thanks

So as a tiger you can give all five of your natural attacks a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage and the ability to bypass damage reduction(magic) with a single casting of Greater Magic Fang.

hello,

Thanks.

My question was more: How many greater magic fang so as to get +5 bonus to all attacks? 5? (one per claw and one for the bite?) or three? (one for the rake, one for the claws and one for the bite?)

Thanks

I didn't find a real answer to that question

Let's consider I have a druid wildshaped in tiger.
I want that all my attacks to be enchanted ( 5 attacks considering the rake attacks).

How many greater magic fang should I cast on myself so that all my attacks are enchanted?

If 5, then what is the design idea behind it? I don't really understand the balance here.

Thanks

CPE is not an efficient combat healing ability in the vast majority of challenging combat encounters.

CPE does not provoke attack of opportunity.

Plus, CPE is just a free cure spell bonus. For a 14 charisma cleric, it's 5 bonus mass cure spells. Of course it's not a no-brainer, but it's IMHO a very powerfull add to the cleric.

Also, I do not see a problem being Str dependant with a melee character.

If you wanted a class that only needs one stat to play, go play wizards.

And since equipment although it melds into your new form still continues to work things are pretty sweet. Start with 14 Str, get +6 bracers, +4 tome and +8 from wild shape. That is 32 str at really high levels.

That is NOT weak. That is similar to what the fighter will have at that level. And you get to cast offensive, defensive or healing spells while in that combat form. Your companion gives you flank or can even trip or grapple your foes.

14 str is a very good start with 15 point buy, and I am not talking about High level plays with a lot of magic items, but medium play (level 12 for instance). Low str druid for me is 8 str.

Summon monster is now better than summon nature ally in most cases ( big change from 3.5). For instance summon monster 6 summons dire tiger celestial. Summon nature ally summons dire tiger ... Ok they are some differences but not that much.

But that's not my point. My point is that when you have a low str, wildshape is not very usefull that's all. I find that's a pitty.

I am not saying druid is not good. I repeat I find it's a very powerfull class with a lot of options IF you have a decent str (14 for instance)

I have not found a post that directly talks about the whole druid design.

My current opinion is that there is a flaw in the design that makes a druid really STR dependant, a lot more than the cleric.

I am not saying at all that the druid is not a powerfull class. I think it is a very nice class. I just want to point out that without strength, the possibility of a druid are a lot reduced.

Basically a druid has 3 main abilities:

1) Spells
2) Companion
3) wildshape

1) Druid spells are mainly divided into 3 parts
1-a) Summon, the worst summoner in the game
1-b) Buff spells: best animal buffer
1-c) Attack spells

The druid has a good attack spell, flame strike (I won't talk about call lightning, I have never understood the design idea behind call llighting... 3d6 damage on a single target with no level advancement is just lame...). However the druid does not have a lot of spells. So basically, the druid won't cast this one that much. Plus it lacks a bit of diversity in attack spells

The summon is very good, but it's frustrating that now the druid has the worst summon spells. But ok I can live with that because of wild shape (see point 3)

Out of that, there are some "effect" spells, communicate with plants, with animals, travelling, and so on. But nothing really shiny at medium high level.

2) Companion

The companion is a good add to the druid. It can deals decent damage , but, if we take the standard wolf companion, it does not deal a huge amount of damage. It's nice, but it's not shiny neither.
The companion can also have nice abilities (fly, stealth, to spy etc...).
These are good but not that mutch in combat.

Ok you can take a tiger... which is awasome ^^ But let's consider that you take a basic wolf.
Maybe the design idea here is to let the low str druid takes the tiger ^^

3) wildshape

Any animal wildshape spell gives a +1 attack bonus (basically +6str for huge transformation is +1 attack bonus only).
So if we take a druid with 10 str, that means a attack bonus of 8 at level 10...
This is very crappy. Very very crappy. It will deal ok damage because of str boost, but will miss a lot... Ok it can be buffed and so on, but it won't be extraordinary.
If we shift into small or tiny creatures, with weapon finess, we can have a nice attack bonus, but the damage will be really crappy.

The main difference here with the cleric is that the cleric has direct bonus on attacks and damages. The size is not modified hence no malus to attack! That means a level 10 cleric with the same str will have attack bonus of 10 with one spell.

Ok so a druid with low str cannot really fight. No issue I can use special abilities of shapes. Vortex of the air elemental for instance...ah...it is str based...hmm

Well, a druid can use wildshape to shift into a air elemental and fly and cast spells from the air...But the spell list is not that fun (compared with cleric and wizards. I don't ask for the wizard list hey, just more fun spells or varied effects)

Ok that's nice, but it's frustrating to be able to shift into that many creatures and only...fly...that's all...(ok immunities, etc...that's powerfull but it's not ...fun to just be immunized and do nothing really shiny).

A druid with decent STR (14 at last) will be a good shapeshifter and will be able to have fun, but I think that without a good str, the druid looses a third of its capacities and the class just becomes less appealing.

In fact, I would like some shapeshifting abilities that would be nice for a low str druid (don't talk about fly or etc...).

Sorry for my english, I m not a native speaker at all ;)

Thanks.

glenstryder wrote:

How many attacks has a tiger when charging?

3? (1 bite 2 claws) or 5? (1 bite 2 claws, 2 rake attacks) ???

pounce = full round (3 attacks) + rake is ambiguous IMHO

5 attacks. It doesn't sound too ambiguous to me (full attack on a charge, including two bonus rake attempts).

I find that a bit too powerfull isn't it?

hogarth wrote:

There are two times when a rake attack can be used:

-during a grapple
-during a pounce, without needing to grapple first (if the creature can pounce)

The ability to use a rake during a pounce isn't mentioned in the description of "Rake" because some creatures can rake but not pounce (e.g. a behir).

Thanks. I guess that makes tigers a rather good choice for 8th level druids, especially when rhino hides give their 2d6 damage bonus on each attack that is part of a charge.

How many attacks has a tiger when charging?

3? (1 bite 2 claws) or 5? (1 bite 2 claws, 2 rake attacks) ???

pounce = full round (3 attacks) + rake is ambiguous IMHO

Hello

I want to be a druid dedicated to his pet (I roll a 8 in strength, so I don't think I can be an effective combative shifter).
Hence I would like to be a crafter that crafts items for the pet.

Is it possible for me to craft item for my pet that works with command word and activate them while worn by my pet?

I ve read the "on command" description and nothing specifies that the word needs to be spoken by the wielder of the object :)

Thanks!!

Hello,

I am currently looking at a caster druid build (I mean a druid with 8 str that cannot really fight shifted).
I wanted to focus on summon nature ally and so on. But I just found out that the summon monster spell is just better than summon nature ally.

In fact, you can summon the same thing with summon monster, but the summoned monster has the celestial/fiendish subtype in addition depending on the caster alignement.

Did I miss out something or is the druid the worst summoner ?

Thanks