Getting Bigger for Dwarven Cleave Build


Advice


Hey guys,

We have a player who's running a Dwarf with a few of the Cleave feats selected (Cleave, Goblin Cleaver, Orc Hewer). The Giant Killer feat has too many prereqs, so we're wondering if there's a way to reliably get to Large size, to let him cleave Large or smaller opponents without worrying about position (plus the range boost from being bigger is always nice for cleave). Other than a wand of Enlarge Person, what options are there for getting bigger, or even just being treated as a larger size for the feat (the way that Powerful Shape lets you act larger for combat maneuvers). Any obscure feats, or easy-to-find magical items that would do the trick?

Thanks.

Sovereign Court

If you're not married to a given class, the abyssal bloodrager bloodline eventually enlarges when you rage, and the bear spirit for the medium makes you large and eventually huge (at least, the playtest version does; we'll have to wait a few months to see the release version).

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Also, note that enlarge person can be permanencied. The spells required should be purchasable in a sufficiently large settlement. ^_^


Illeist wrote:
If you're not married to a given class, the abyssal bloodrager bloodline eventually enlarges when you rage, and the bear spirit for the medium makes you large and eventually huge (at least, the playtest version does; we'll have to wait a few months to see the release version).

A couple other options,

Goliath Druid archetype
Plant Sub Domain - Growth

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

It sounds like the character is already in play, so I'm not sure a new class will be easily doable...

Scarab Sages

You could also change Dwarf to Duergar for access to the racial enlarge.

Growth Subdomain for druids and Clerics gives both the ability to cast enlarge person, and the ability to use it as a SLA.

Speaking of druids, the Goliath druid can get both the growth domain, and can wildshape into giant form.

As mentioned, Abyssal Bloodrager works as well.


Buy a wand of Enlarge Person(750g). Get a cracked Purple Ioun Stone (2000g)

Now, you can enlarge whenever you like (though the full round activation applies). Bonus, get 2 stones and put Shield in another one for use with 2 handed weapon.

Alternately, carry a potion of Enlarge person around with you, costs 50g but only takes a standard action instead. Get Sandals of Quick Reaction to do that in surprise rounds along with moving.


A character in my current campaign (dwarf fighter, also has Cleave, dwarven longaxe as his main weapon)spent the money to get Enlarge Person made permanent on him as soon as he made it to Absalom. He carries around some Reduce Person potions in case of emergencies.

His reach is kind of terrifying.


He's committed to being a fighter, but thanks for all the input guys. We have a party alchemist so we may be able to convince him to brew up tons of cheap potions or take infusion. That seems like the best bet since it drops the activation time to a standard action.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

If you have an alchemist, Infusion would be the actual business. If he can't spare the discovery, though, a potion is fine too. ^_^


Though not an official item, a ring of enlarge person is a pretty reasonable item.

Permanencied enlarged person costs 2500 gp for the permanency and 9th level caster to cast permanency and enlarge person. It cost about an extra ~540 gp for spell casting services. Lets round to an even 3000 gp to have permanent enlarge person. Now, permanent can be dispelled and has the downside of requiring you to buy large sized gear.

Meanwhile a ring of enlarge person you can dispel the effect, but you can always use the ring to cast it again. You don't have issues with sized equipment. I would say a price of around 6000 gp is fair for a ring of enlarge person. I am ignoring the normal rules for item creation though as the ring is pretty much strictly better than a permanent enlarge person spell (except the permanent effect doesn't use a slot) so it should be more expensive than the permanent version.


If you can convinced him to take one level as a class with a animal companion, the gorgonzola choice is Verminous Hunter Archetype for fast healing, and take animal soul that allow a wizard/sorcerer/druid or who ever have this Spell to cast Animal growth on the little guy. Around level 9-10 this is a good route. Since animal growth gives vastly better bonuses than enlarge person.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Cap. Darling wrote:
If you can convinced him to take one level as a class with a animal companion, the gorgonzola choice is Verminous Hunter Archetype for fast healing, and take animal soul that allow a wizard/sorcerer/druid or who ever have this Spell to cast Animal growth on the little guy. Around level 9-10 this is a good route. Since animal growth gives vastly better bonuses than enlarge person.

Animal Ally or the Druid VMC would accomplish similar goals if he doesn't want to dip - as a fighter, he should have feats to spare. ^_^


Kalindlara wrote:
Also, note that enlarge person can be permanencied. The spells required should be purchasable in a sufficiently large settlement. ^_^

I see what you did there... ;)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

<3


As a fighter, he should have a feat or two to spare. He could take the Additional Traits feat to grab the Accelerated Drinker trait (plus one other useful one, like Glory of Old or something), which would let him slam a Enlarge Person potion he’s got in his hand as a move action.

If worshiping Urgathoa is an option--probably not, right?--he could take the feat Potion Glutton, which would let him choke down an Enlarge Person potion he’s got in his hand as a swift action. I think Potion Glutton works with infusions, too.


Xah Doom wrote:
Illeist wrote:
If you're not married to a given class, the abyssal bloodrager bloodline eventually enlarges when you rage, and the bear spirit for the medium makes you large and eventually huge (at least, the playtest version does; we'll have to wait a few months to see the release version).

A couple other options,

Goliath Druid archetype

Nah. You want a standard druid. Animals are generally better for standard action attacks than humanoids and the goliath druid doesn't get any animals that aren't dinosaurs or megafauna. The behemoth hippopotamus, which is the apex of standard action attack power, is not actually a megafaunus. He also gets no flying forms because pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs.

Druid really is the best class for the build. It's probably the class that best takes advantage of the dwarven stat array and the disadvantage of being slow goes away when you wildshape. Bloodrager might work, but you'd be a charisma casting class on a race with a charisma penalty and that really doesn't work out well.


Or, just dip a single level of Goliath Druid with Growth Domain and go back to fighter. I have a Dwarven Martial Master Cleave Fighter. After reading this thread, I did a test build. A single level dip gives me the ability to Enlarge as a swift action for 5 rounds, and I get 1 use of enlarge person (cast like normal) plus 2 other druid spells which can be spontaneously turn into Enlarge Person (self only). So not only do I get enough enlarge persons to last through 3 fights (and another 1-2 fights using swift actions) but I can keep two of those enlarge person castings as Faerie Fire and Longstrider, just in case. Should I decide to invest a second level in Druid, I'd get +1 to Fort and Will, and another level 1 spell.

That is a LOT of value for a 1-2 level dip. I'm quite pleased. Thank you, thread. :-D

Dark Archive

If you can pick up additional traits feat, or just retrain, to get the +2 caster lvl trait. Now your 1lvl dip gives you 3 min enlarges.


Mystically Inclined wrote:

Or, just dip a single level of Goliath Druid with Growth Domain and go back to fighter. I have a Dwarven Martial Master Cleave Fighter. After reading this thread, I did a test build. A single level dip gives me the ability to Enlarge as a swift action for 5 rounds, and I get 1 use of enlarge person (cast like normal) plus 2 other druid spells which can be spontaneously turn into Enlarge Person (self only). So not only do I get enough enlarge persons to last through 3 fights (and another 1-2 fights using swift actions) but I can keep two of those enlarge person castings as Faerie Fire and Longstrider, just in case. Should I decide to invest a second level in Druid, I'd get +1 to Fort and Will, and another level 1 spell.

That is a LOT of value for a 1-2 level dip. I'm quite pleased. Thank you, thread. :-D

But you only get to large that way. That will let you do nonadjacent cleaving to most evil outsiders, but you need more druid to get the big giants and most full grown dragons.


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The day that my cleave fighter is in melee with two adult sized dragons at once, both of whom are within her reach, I will happily admit your point for the 1 round it takes them to kill her. ;)

Jarred Henninger wrote:
If you can pick up additional traits feat, or just retrain, to get the +2 caster lvl trait. Now your 1lvl dip gives you 3 min enlarges.

That... is a very good point. And I *did* pick up additional traits. I used it to add some flavor to the character. But when I went druid, one of the traits (giving perception as a class skill) became obsolete. I'd selected Indomitable Faith as a replacement, but you have a very good point about Magical Knack. That would allow me to get both a 3 minute Enlarge and a 3 hour Longstrider. A strong alternative to +1 Will.

Dark Archive

My Dwarven Cleaver build in PFS is based on levels in Abyssal Bloodrager, but I have another PFS character (a trippy monk MoMs build) that gets large via Living Monolith prestige class. The former is a great barbarian-style build. The later requires some heavy prereq feats, but heck you are a fighter: you have a ton of feats to spare. Getting large three time per day as swift action is HUGE (pun intended).

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