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How important is it to your PC that the god/dess be evil? Clerics can be within a step of their god's alignment, so depending on the type of evil the PC wants to be - LE, NE, CE - s/he could pick a god/dess that isn't necessarily also evil.

Using the Pathfinder wiki, I see two of the gods worshipped in Sandpoint may have a flavor of evil cleric - Abadar may have LE clerics and Gozreh may have NE. I would think clerics of either deity would get along relatively fine in this AP, and be able to form some sort of lasting connection to Sandpoint, which is really important for the flow of the story.

Akerlof, that's pretty neat about how Calistria was added to your cathedral! What class was your player's PC that did that? I just can't see my inquisitor doing that for Gorum. He's not from Varisia and only recently arrived in Sandpoint.

I do agree that it makes a certain amount of sense to have Gorum as part of the cathedral, given Shoanti influence. Another player is planning a Shoanti oracle, although she hasn't decided on her god/dess yet. She's leaning towards bone oracle, because she loves the flavor.

I was wondering if any other GM's have switched up the gods worshipped at the Sandpoint Cathedral to match the gods selected by their PCs, and if so, if it had any real impact to the AP?

Although my players all know who the big 6 are as written in the AP, a couple have character concepts that don't mesh with any of those 6, and chose another god to follow. One of these PC's is an Inquisitor of Gorum with a really, really thin reason for being in Sandpoint. I have been unsuccessful in convincing the player to pick a character that will fit better, so I want to reel the character in hook, line and sinker early on, so he will feel like protecting the town. I think that will be easier if I make Gorum one of the 6 gods at the cathedral.

I've read through to about half way through book 5, and so far, I don't see any drawback to changing the gods up as needed to suit my PC's backgrounds, but thought it would be good to seek out the experience of other GM's to see what I might be missing.

We probably won't be starting the AP for another couple of months, so I have time to ponder this and other options.

My group has played Plane Shift, when shifting to something smaller than 5 miles, to drop you randomly within the area of the plane they're going to. The tuning fork is attuned, to, say, a personal demiplane that is just 39 10' cubes big. The fork will get you somewhere on that plane, because it is attuned to it. It's just that the plane is too small for the inaccuracy of the spell to matter as much.

Think of it this way. You try to Plane Shift into a specific 10' space in a small demiplane. The dice indicate you end up 200 miles from there. You get metaphorically spun around in circles within the demiplane until you've traveled 200 miles from your intended target. Only, the plane is so small, you land only 10' over from where you were aiming. And you're probably dizzy, although that's just flavor.

Not an item, but you could befriend a witch with the Ward hex. +1 to AC and saves, and +3 if she's a high enough level. The ward fails once someone gets through your AC or you fail a save, but the witch can reapply the hex; it's not a once per day sort of hex.

The movie iteration is about as Paladin as Paladin can be, especially in Winter Soldier (which is a phenomenal movie regardless of any franchise connections).

I have always enjoyed the scene in the first Captain America movie where, while all of the other recruits are running away, he throws himself on a grenade he assumes to be live, to save those around him from the blast he knew would kill him. It was a test, of course, but I held that up for my son, who was 12 at the time we watched it, as a perfect example of a Paladin (which I had just started playing in our Carrion Crown campaign).

And speaking of female paladins, Feylinn is the aasimar daughter of a Cleric of Iomedae and a Knight of Ozem. She grew up in the court of Mendev, as a diplomat for the queen. When she and her fiancé, a Cavalier who came to Mendev to fight in the Worldwound, were set upon by demons, he was killed while protecting her. She vowed never to be helpless to protect herself, or those she loved, again, and prayed to Iomedae to grant her the strength and wisdom to take up her father's sword in Her name.

On her way to join her father's family in Lastwall, she got sidetracked into Ustalav with the news of an old friend's death. She fell in with a group of adventurers who also knew her old friend, and together they have uncovered a dastardly plot to release the Whispering Tyrant from his prison. Together, they hope to prevent his release. She is the first through a door into the unknown, and comes to the aid of her allies without thought of the risk to herself. She thinks highly of their cleric of Sarenrae, though he follows a different goddess, and hopes to encourage the others of their group to good and lawful behavior by her example. She despairs for one of the elven rangers, though, for he is quick to use any means necessary to accomplish their task, even if it borders on evil. Still, where there is life, there is hope. Their party leaves the relative safety of Caliphas soon, to venture into the forests and mountains in search of the Whispering Way, and Feylinn knows the Light of Iomedae will be needed. She hopes she is strong enough to face what is to come.

WendyWitch wrote:
...I read somewhere that Pharasma allows the control of existing undead if the purpose of that control is to destroy them, which is what OP is doing with his ability (and destroying other undead while he's at it). I don't have my books with me, so I can't quote the source at the moment...

Okay, so I know OP didn't say which deity his character follows, and I'm straying from the rules question asked, but it was bugging me so I looked this up when I had a moment at home this evening. In Faiths of Balance, page 17, under Taboos for Pharasma: "While necromancy has many beneficial spells that allow you to care for both the dead and the living, you may not create undead, nor control them unless you do so specifically for the purpose of destroying them."

So, there you go. If you worship Pharasma, I think you're following her directives quite effectively. I really like the flavor of the character you've created, Windquake.

OP didn't say which god his character worships, but many necromancers do worship Pharasma. These necromancers choose not to create undead. I read somewhere that Pharasma allows the control of existing undead if the purpose of that control is to destroy them, which is what OP is doing with his ability (and destroying other undead while he's at it). I don't have my books with me, so I can't quote the source at the moment, and I'm not sure where I read it now and would have to dig for it. I read rather extensively over a year ago on Pharasma when working up my witch for Carrion Crown.

Pharasma forbids creating undead or allowing them to exist, and her divine followers are not granted the ability to create undead. However, if you are her divine follower and in combat, and use your abilities to control an undead to prevent it from harming the living, use it to help you destroy other undead, and then destroy the controlled undead at the end of the battle, I think she would be pleased. Just don't start keeping that controlled undead as a pet valet, or something. You might find a dead whippoorwill in your path.

I have to say that I am super excited to have Pathfinder Tales available in Kindle format soon. To appease my hubby, I have had to reduce the volume of paper books I bring into the house (as I typically am VERY reluctant to part with them later), so I try very hard not to buy paper books (no, I'm not perfect, especially when the used book store offers a $10 bag sale. 25 cents a paperback? I'm in!)

Taking the existing e-format and trying to convert it so I can read it on my Kindle is a daunting task I've not felt up to trying, and the one time I looked, I couldn't find a clear how-to guide. That's too much work, especially compared to Kindle's one-click and I've got it in my hot little hands format.

I am relatively new (been playing it for ~2 years) to Pathfinder (but not RPGs), so there is a huge backlog of books I'd like to read and I would love to see the older books available for Kindle. You can be sure I'll be buying the new ones for Kindle as they become available.

As another plus, I can probably interest my teenage son in reading the Kindle editions, where I have had little success getting him to read the paperbacks I have managed to borrow from friends. Kids love their gadgets.

I'll be starting this AP sometime this year, and I'm collecting side stuff for the party. This scenario looks like fun - my group is likely to include PC's that will create some entertaining role play with this one! Thanks!

I'm running a homebrew for my daughter (age 11) and several of her friends. They are ALWAYS trying to talk to things instead of taking them out. It's refreshing, actually, and they have challenged me, as a GM, to come up with scenarios where talking to the NPCs really pays off.

It's a lot easier to just throw drooling monsters at them and let them hack them up. I think the next time they try to talk to a zombie, I'll give him a brain and have him start reciting Shakespeare!

Related to the thread, though, I love all of the ideas everyone has thrown out here. I'm prepping to run this AP for our regular group, which is a mix of adults and our teenagers. We don't have any undead issues in the group, having gone most of the way through Carrion Crown at this point (our youngest in this group is 13, and while I'm not GM'ing it, I know our GM has modified how he describes things in deference to our younger members), but if we decide to invite any of the 11 year olds in our families to join Runelords, I'll be looking to lighten it up some, too. The suggestion to allow the party to "save" many of the victims is a great one.

I am definitely going to make use of these prep sheets, thank you! My group is finishing up Carrion Crown this spring, and I've been elected to GM Runelords. It's been many long years since I've GM'd, and I'm rusty, to say the least. The festival game ideas are awesome!

This class looks like it would be fun to play.

As an editorial note, your Greater Trance and Supreme Trance have the exact same spiritual bonuses. Given that the Haunt Sense at level 19 is +9, Should the Supreme Trance be at a +9, instead of the +6 as listed?

It may be in more than one source, but the 5 things about undead appears on page 5 of the Undead Slayer's Handbook. There, it is prefaced with "The following are a few facts that are considered common knowledge among Golarion's civilized peoples."

One could argue that not all things considered common knowledge are necessarily accurate. There are exceptions to every rule; that's how we get interesting stories.

For what it's worth, I see both sides of this coin as being applicable, depending on your campaign. I can see the spells with the Evil descriptor as being inherently corrupting, just by invoking their energies. I like the flavor of that. But I could also see where the same spells could be used for good ends, which would potentially offset the nature of the spell.

Off the top of my head, I don't have any specific suggestions for class, but if he's the leader of a very successful group, he should have no problems procuring magic items that can mitigate his venerable negatives... like a Belt of Mighty Constitution +6. Heck, there's a Belt of Physical Perfection that grants bonuses to STR, DEX and CON all at once.

Makes you wonder how it survived as long as it did before hitting the broad side of a house. So glad it's being cared for now.

Shroudb, that... is an amazing item.

Paladin, where is that quoted? I could only find where the feat says "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar."

ryric found the text I was thinking of, so yes, there are some spells that come with the new familiar, but they are more limited than I was thinking.

Below are the relevant bits about your 3rd question:

PRD: "Familiar Teaching Familiar: A witch's familiar can learn spells from another witch's familiar. To accomplish this, the familiars must spend one hour per level of the spell being taught in communion with one another...Most witches require a spell of equal or greater level in return for this service. If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion."

I agree that the rules do not specifically address moving spells from an old familiar to a new one, or for a situation other than one where the witch has died, but I still think that given the time constraints, there's no way for one witch to transfer spells alone. The old familiar loses its knowledge of spells after 24 hours, and the witch cannot replace it with a new one until 1 day has passed. There would have to be another witch with a familiar for the old familiar to teach its spells to, and then the other witch's familiar would be able to teach the spells to the new familiar. Difficult and time consuming.

My thoughts on the Improved Familiar feat don't quite bear out, either, by RAW, because you can only take the feat when you would normally be able to gain a new familiar, although I think I've seen threads where GM's have ruled that all the spells transfer, but that'd really be up to how the GM wants to interpret it.

Basically, if a witch loses her familiar, she has lost her spellbook, and so she cannot prepare spells. She may gain a new familiar as stated in the quote by ryric, with the reduced spell list, as noted. The new familiar may learn additional spells from another witch's familiar, as quoted above, or by learning from a scroll:

PRD: "Learn from a Scroll: A witch can use a scroll to teach her familiar a new spell. This process takes 1 hour per level of the spell to be learned, during which time the scroll is burned and its ashes used to create a special brew or powder that is consumed by the familiar. This process destroys the scroll. At the end of this time, the witch must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check fails, the process went awry in some way and the spell is not learned, although the scroll is still consumed."

I just had a truly evil thought. What if the witch's familiar were kidnapped, and just held apart from the witch? She would be unable to commune with it to prepare spells, but it hasn't died, nor has the witch. I don't know of any rules that speak to dismissing a witch's familiar, so in this case, I think she'd be stuck. Rescue the familiar, or not cast spells.

If the animal ceases to function as a familiar, through whatever means, my interpretation would be that it loses its knowledge after 24 hours and returns to a non-magical beast, and all the spells it had been taught while a familiar are lost.

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I don't have my APG with me, but if I recall correctly, the witch can replace the familiar after 24 hours with a ritual costing X amount of gp (I think the cost goes up as the witch's level goes up). I think the new familiar comes with all cantrips, the bonus spells gained at each level, plus the patron spells, but not any spells that the witch might have taught the old familiar through ritual.

A familiar retains its arcane knowledge for 24 hours after separation from its witch. If the familiar is willing, it may teach spells to another familiar, subject to the time limitations (I want to say a 6th level spell would take 6 hours to teach, familiar-to-familiar, for instance, but check the APG).

So, I don't think there is a way for a witch to have an old, still living familiar teach her new familiar any spells, since there is the time limitation. The old familiar can only teach for 24 hours, and the witch cannot gain a new familiar until after 24 hours have passed.

If the party kills a witch, but spares the familiar, that familiar may be persuaded to teach spells known to another witch's familiar, though. Similarly, if you have two witches who are friendly with each other, they could have their familiars teach each other spells.

I think that if a witch were to take the Improved Familiar feat, and replace her familiar that way, that all the spells, regardless of source, transfer as a function of the feat.

Not quite immunity, but a paladin with the Warrior of Holy Light archetype, gains 50% immunity to critical hits at level 20, when invoking her aura of holy light. That protection extends to allies within 60' of her, too.

The wallpaper. I have so many things hanging on my walls, I don't see much of them, anyway. Anyone standing at the front window, french or not, is just creepy.

Chocolate, or peanut butter?

Our GM added Carrion Hill into the middle of our Carrion Crown campaign, and it took us 3-4 sessions to get through. I think the best way to shorten it would be to reduce the number of targets the party has to track down, and perhaps reduce the number of rooms at specific locations. The asylum, as I recall, was pretty big, and was almost two whole sessions for our party. If you made it smaller, perhaps one floor instead of two, the party could get through it faster.

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I did most of my D&D type gaming in college, and our group was pretty much 50/50. Some were couples, some weren't. We really didn't think much about it.

This article and experiment tickles me no end. I am a mom of a 13 year old boy and an 11 year old girl. Both of my kids showed an interest in my old "red box" last year when I pulled it out of my closet one day, so I sought out a gaming group for my son and me to join last year. My daughter, while she had fun playing with her brother, didn't want to join a group, which was just as well, as the one I found was just starting Carrion Crown. Fine by my son, but not a genre my daughter was interested in.

It made me sad that she wasn't playing, so I asked her one day if she would play with a group of her girlfriends, if I was the GM. She agreed, and we invited three of her best friends to join the group, two of which were a little, "what's this about, now?" and the third being our Carrion Crown GM's daughter. She agreed to let her brother play, too. So I have a party of 11-13 year olds, and our group consists of a bard, a witch, a druid, a sorcerer and a rogue (my son). We occasionally have my son's best friend join in, and when he does, he plays a fighter. I play light and loose with the rules, and the girls all love it.

I found, however, during character selection, that the girls were often swayed for or against a class based on the iconic pictured for it. My daughter is musically inclined and wanted her character to play an instrument, so a bard was a natural choice - but she had to get her head around the fact that she wasn't being asked to play Lem. So, yes, I agree that the iconics are a powerful influence. I'm not passing judgment good or bad, mind you, just noting that I have seen how they influence class selection, especially on those new to the game.

Also, my girls, at least, are not murder hobos in any sense of the word. They don't want to kill anything. They want to talk their way through most encounters, so I have had to adjust my home brew scenarios to account for that preference. I love a good monster slaying as well as the next gamer, so this was a surprising turn of events for me.

I am constantly being asked, "When's our next gaming session?"

Yes, girls play D&D, too.

Not even close to a TPK, but I'm playing a witch in one of the AP's and we had recently recovered a large, magical book while on a side adventure. She and one of our rangers were in our room at the Inn and decided to see what this book was all about. We set off a trap when we opened the book, and the witch and all of the Inn's inhabitants went instantly insane. The witch tried to kill herself, but the ranger made his save and thankfully was able to overpower her (she's quite squishy at a STR 10) and haul her down to Pharasma's temple for some mental healing. As we came back to the Inn, all chaos had broken loose, so we had to pay the temple's clerics to heal everyone at the Inn, too. Thankfully, no one was killed, but the Innkeeper had our horses saddled and ready to go at first light the next day.

The witch is now a little more careful about where she is when she opens an unknown magical book.

If you've all played together before and are friends, I would ask the GM why he wanted characters created in isolation. Maybe there's a story reason that he could explain, at least a little, to give the players some better context and understanding. To get a coherent group from the start, you really need to discuss character generation together.

I second the motion of having the characters learning from each other and changing and growing in their viewpoints. Role play that out and form a cohesive group that can go forward.

I have a Kindle Fire HDX, the larger screen, and it reads and displays pdfs just fine.

What I've been wondering myself, is how do the Pathfinder Tales novels interface with it, and with the Paperwhite, actually. My kids have paperwhites, and I'd like to entice my son to try reading some Tales (he's 13), but I'm not the most e-book savvy person out there.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but does anyone have experience with buying the e-books from Paizo and reading them on a Kindle Paperwhite? Is it difficult to transfer them to the Paperwhite? Amazon does not appear to offer these books, last I looked.

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I discovered D&D in sometime in the mid-80s, as an awkward, shy teenager, even around family. Very much trapped within my shell. One summer, during my family reunion, my cousins were playing and I would listen to them play from the next room, being too shy (and a little younger) to ask right out what they were doing. I think one of my aunts realized the game had caught my attention, and asked the cousin who was DM'ing to try to draw me in. He did, and my very first character, a wizard, was born. He gave me far more power and magic items than I should have had, but I was suddenly part of the group, and it was FUN. To this day, I have fond memories of the Castle Amber module.

After the reunion, I couldn't wait to get my hands on my own red box and show it to my friends. My parents were just grateful to see me connecting with my cousins, I think, and didn't seem to bat an eyelash at the game itself.

I only drew my immediate friends into the game, though, once I returned home (NJ), and was already an outsider at school, so it wasn't particularly obvious to those outside of my immediate circle that I played D&D. So, no, I never ran into any problems.

Gaming in college in Cleveland, OH, in the late 80s, early 90s, involved things like Fantasy Hero and Shadowrun, more than strictly D&D, and we had our own happy little group. No, I never had any problems there, either.

I remember hearing the bad press about D&D and just not understanding it. I thought it was pretty obvious that the media had the cause and effect backwards, and that the kids that took the game too far had started out with a weak grasp on reality before they ever even found D&D.

The worst problem I had, which is different but related, was when, after reading Anne McCaffrey's Pern series in 11th grade, I got into dragons big time. My dad took me aside one day and expressed his concern about my obsession with these dark and demonic dragons, and was I getting into satanism? I couldn't help but laugh. I assured him that MY dragons were nothing like that, handed him Dragonflight, and asked him to please read the book before passing judgment. He did, and he read every subsequent Pern book out there. My dad is pretty cool.

Okay, thanks, Voideternal. That makes sense.

I'm a little confused as to why folks are recommending NOT a witch? Can reasons be given without using spoilers? My group is half way through the AP and are level 9. My NG human witch is a follower of Pharasma and is a very valuable member of our party. She has a lot of white necromancy spells (since Pharasma frowns on undead). She has pretty high knowledge skills, healing and spellcraft. With her high Int & Prehensile Hair hex, she's stronger than our paladin for some tasks. Everyone in the party is glad she's part of it. And she hasn't even taken the so controversial Sleep hex.

Didn't the party check Peter's person for stuff before making the difficult decision to kill him? The wizard at least should have detected magic on Peter to determine if he had something magical that could have been the source of his insanity. How cruel it would have been had he been wearing a cursed amulet under his shirt, only to be found after the paladin had completed the mercy killing.

So, I don't understand why the wizard even thought there would be something on Peter at all when he decided to loot the body. He showed brazen insensitivity for the choice the paladin just had to make, and deserved to have a shovel shoved in his munchkinly face.

Alternative course of action could include using charm or sleep spells to keep Peter quiet and incapable of harming the party members or himself while they traveled to the closest temple of Iomedae to turn him over for better care. You could have used divination spells, not just praying to Iomedae, to try to determine what caused his insanity and a route to restoring it.

Like Ubercroz, I honestly wonder if the GM meant for you to take Peter with you as some sort of story hook. In that case, the party missed the hints and the GM might have made the paladin fall in retaliation. Instead, the GM could have chosen to throw out more hints, perhaps have some mumblings/rantings from Peter that gave better indication of what caused his insanity, or the route the party is supposed to take.

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Since the spell says immunities still apply, the paladin could have saved either the oracle or the cleric, without suffering ill effects of the spell himself. Certainly a paladin would have used the spell to save an ally. But the phantasmal killer spell can be seen only by the target. How did the paladin know that there was a fear effect spell in play against the oracle and cleric? Is it reasonable that he would have known that his spell would save his ally?

Either way, I wouldn't make him fall. He didn't deliberately choose not to save his allies. Maybe, in character, you could say the paladin was frozen with indecision about which ally to save, if he only had the spell once. Although held to a strict code, paladins are still subject to human (or elven, or dwarven, or whatever) failings. They're not perfect, though they strive to be. He might be eaten up with guilt over failing to save his allies and perhaps he would pray to his god/dess for guidance. You could, as GM, have his deity lay a quest before him to atone for his failing, a quest that would test and stretch his decision making skills, to help him grow in his faith. Good story hook right there.

Out of character, try to come up with ways to help this new player remember what his character can do. Come up with shorthand note cards for his spells with brief descriptions, which he can refer to during the session. Refer to the book and page # for each spell in case the full description needs to be looked up.

Or go back and change the events of the session, allowing him to save one of the other characters, whichever one makes the most sense for the paladin to have saved. Again, I really think this is more of a new player memory/learning curve problem, and not a paladin in danger of falling.

I am playing a NG witch in the Carrion Crown campaign, who follows Pharasma. She has the healing patron. Our party is primarily good, although we have a N elven ranger with some moral ambiguities, in my opinion. My witch has focused primarily on healing and buffing, at lower levels (she's 9th level at the moment), but is branching out a bit as she gains access to some pretty powerful attack spells. She has the Flight, Healing, Ward, Cauldron, Tongues, Prehensile Hair and Evil Eye hexes (took extra hex for a couple of feats). Her hair has saved our plate encased paladin from several potentially deadly falls, and she was the one one who dealt the killing blow to the big bad at the end of the 3rd book, using a lightning bolt. Her Ward hex, which now grants a +3 bonus to saves, has prevented some negative permanent levels on party members, and the party adores having her around (even that N elf).

Because she is a follower of Pharasma, she does not have any of the create undead spells, but there are numerous necromancy spells that have little or nothing to do with actually creating or controlling undead, and she has no qualms about learning them and making liberal use of them, although part of that is the fact that her goddess is the goddess of Death who does not frown upon White Necromancy, so your mileage may vary. Spectral Hand is awesome, as it can deliver touch spells. So many of the spells on the witch's list are touch attacks, and she avoids getting in up close and personal as much as possible, since she is very squishy. She has also taken the Metamagic Reach Spell feat to help with the touch attack problem.

I have had a blast playing this character and would recommend a Good aligned Witch any day.

I am so stealing the hoard of stuffed animals for the homebrew I'm doing for my 11 year old daughter and her friends. I wonder what color/type of dragon would find this sort of hoard desireable?

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The only problem with Volcanic Storm is that after the spell's duration, the ash disappears, so it's not a permanent effect.

You could home brew a Hex that is opposite of Blight, which could look a lot like a Bless spell. To keep the power level the same, though, you'd only be able to have one Blessed plot of land at a time, size limited by your level. I like the idea of a good witch being able to do this, though.

There is a major hex, Witch's Bounty, which is thematically appropriate for your build, too.

1. Oldest child is almost 13.

2. Style of Play is definitely merciful, (c), so I fit right in with your experience, OP.

Right now, I am playing both a NG Witch and a LG Paladin, so I kind of feel (c) is appropriate for the characters, too.

I wasn't actively gaming when my kids were <4, so although I'd like to be able to contrast my playing style over the course of my kid's childhood, I can't. Those early years are a blurry haze of parental exhaustion. I've only gotten back into gaming since my son (the eldest) showed an interest in gaming, so we joined a local group together.

My son is playing a CG elf, and likes to play up the C part of that, but he tends towards mercy, too, although probably is not quite as far along on the spectrum as I am.

I am playing a witch in our Carrion Crown campaign, which has a fair amount of undead. She has the healing patron, but that's mostly because our clerics keep coming and going. Right now, the party doesn't have any cleric - just the witch and a paladin.

The Healing hex has come in handy, since it does do damage to undead.

You want to find ways to deliver your spells at range, as I've found most of the witch's are touch attacks. Sometimes, you really don't want to touch an undead that you know is level draining! I recommend getting the spell Spectral Hand (level 2 witch spell) as soon as you may, as it'll allow you to deliver touch spells without putting yourself or your familiar at such risk. Spectral hand will also allow you to make touch attacks on incorporeal creatures (because it is, itself, incorporeal).

Aside from a two-spell combo using spectral hand (which has a decent duration), my witch mostly focuses on using buffs to protect the front line fighters of the party - the Ward hex and the 4th level spell Death Ward are good buffs when fighting undead. She also has spells like Sanctify Corpse, Gentle Repose, & Decompose Corpse to help prevent new undead, but she is a follower of Pharasma and detests even the thought of undead. She has no interest in controlling them, just sending the poor souls on for final judgment in Pharasma's halls. Your witch's motivation may very, of course.

If you're expecting incorporeal undead, the Ectoplasmic metamagic feat is a good one, too.

fretgod99 wrote:
The CRB suggests awarding XP at the end of the gaming session, so leveling up doesn't take away from gaming time. By and large though, it's left to the groups to figure out how they want to do it.

Our GM does award XP at the end of each session; if we hit the threshhold for the next level, we just don't get to do so until the party is, in game, in a position to take some down-time.

Wow, can I play with you guys? Our GM does not let us level up at all until the party is in a place and has time where we can do extra training, studying, resting, what-have-you. So, I guess to answer the OP, by this method of leveling, we do end up at full HP/rested with full spells.

I made the argument with our GM that the characters are learning and, gee, gaining experience, as they adventure and at least some of the benefits of leveling up should be an immediate thing upon reaching the proper number of points, but that's not how he rules it and the rest of the table seems cool with it. Since I am the only one who has a different take on leveling up, and I otherwise feel the GM is fair and I enjoy the group, I've learned to live with it. I'm glad to hear, though, that it's not the universal method!

Yes, actually, I think it does expend one use of the lay on hands ability. I'm no good at providing links, but the line reads: "She can spend a use of her lay on hands ability to call upon the power of her faith as a standard action." To me, it stands to reason that the Power of Faith ability would have limits; spellcasting has daily limits, too.

We have to wait til MAY??? *sigh*

As already stated, actualy owning the Harrow deck is not necessary to the mechanics of using the feat, spell or class that utilizes them - all can be done with dice. However, I think your character needs to own a deck to use them. Obviously, that can be done with backstory, or coordinating with your GM to have an in-session find/purchase/gift made for your character to gain the deck.

The deck is a nice prop to have, if you like props. I found a deck at my local gaming shop, and picked it up. My group is going through the Carrion Crown AP and my witch is getting ready to take both the feat and the spell, so I'm looking forward to using the deck in game soon. The feat allows the character to draw a card and gain a one time daily bonus to a roll based on the stat the card represents. I think having the card in front of me with my character sheet will help me remember to use the bonus, rather than just making a note somewhere.

I am currently playing a witch with the healing patron, and she has been a boon for our party.

In another thread, someone suggested pairing the scar hex with the healing hex, since scar gives the witch the ability to cast hexes on the scarred subject from up to a mile away. She can heal the fighter even if he's surrounded by adversaries and she can't safely reach him.

I'd personally suggest the siphon poison feat, out of the Faiths of Purity companion (I think), which cures poison with a successful heal check, if administered with 2 rounds of poisoning. My GM has come to hate that feat, but the party adores their witch.

She also uses the Ward hex on our rogue or ranger, when they're off scouting on their own. The witch immediately knows if the ward falls, and so knows when the rogue or ranger is in danger, and can alert the party. There are other ways to accomplish that, of course, but we're still fairly low level.

This thread is fantastic! I found Pathfinder earlier this year when looking for a gaming group for my son to join. I had given him my basic D&D books one weekend, and he devoured them, and was taking his little sister through mini dungeons by the end of the weekend. He and I joined a group running in our local comic shop, which has 3-4 regular adults and 2 kids - my son being the youngest at 12. We are in the 2nd book of the Carrion Crown AP, and he is having an absolute blast playing his elven ranger and wolf companion, and is intent on becoming an arcane archer. It's fun to watch him take such an interest in something I enjoyed through high school and college, and everyone in the party enjoys having him at the table. I admit to being as much of a gaming geek now as I was in college, and am thrilled to have the chance to not only start playing again, but also to do it with my son.

I hope, though, that he will eventually get together a group of his own peers and become a GM for them, and had been wondering how best to "pitch" Pathfinder to the parents, if they aren't already familiar with RPGs, and the thoughts and ideas that have been shared here are really helpful, and I will definitely be using them!

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So, a lot of people are looking at that Precise Strike deed that Swashbucklers (and others) get access to, and flipping out at how much of a huge damage boost it seems to be. Let's break down real quick how it isn't.

From the level at which it comes online, you're adding your level to damage on all your hits. On top of that you've got the base damage for the rapier you're basically forced to use, your strength bonus, and whatever feats and class features you have to stack on extra damage (weapon training, precise strike, etc.) Rapiers also have an 18-20 crit range, which is always nice.

Let's compare that now to someone using a good ol' two-handed falchion, which is also an 18-20 crit range, and say we have the same feats.

First off, we have the actual dice involved. 1d6 vs. 2d4. Those average out to 3.5 damage per hit, and 5 damage per hit respectively. So that's -1.5 damage to the rapier user so far.

Next comes strength. You add your str mod to the rapier, but 2x str mod to the falchion. -1 potential damage for every 4 points of strength.

Power attack works along the same principle. Assuming we've got a full BAB character and we're really chasing damage, it's a no brainer feat, and we have that same ratio. 2 damage per 4 BAB with the rapier, 3 with the falchion.

So here's how much str you need at each level to outperform the precise strike deed (by that half a point there) at each level, vs. someone with the same str, assuming you're power attacking:

1: 8 (Precise Strike has yet to kick in, dice alone are a huge deal, no power attack here)
2: 8
3: 14 (Precise Strike is now online, assume we're both power attacking now)
4: 14 (PA edge just jumped to +2)
5: 18 1.5 2 2
6: 22 1.5 3 2
7: 26 1.5 4 2
8: 26 (PA edge hits +3)
9: 30 1.5 5 3
10: 34 1.5 6 3
11: 38 1.5 7 3
12: 38 (PA edge hits +4)
13: 42
14: 46
15: 50
16: 50 (it's +5)
17: 54
18: 58
19: 62
20: 62 (and again)

Now, putting it in these terms makes it look like a huge deal. Nobody's ever going to get their str up that high. But again, this is just to establish the baseline. Let's look at it in more practical terms.

If we assume both the rapier user and falchion user have an 18 str and never upgrade it...
Level 1: Falchion's hitting for 4.5 extra damage on each attack.
Level 2: Falchion's hitting for 4.5 extra damage on each attack.
Level 3: Falchion's hitting for 1.5 extra damage on each attack.
Level 4: Falchion's hitting for 1.5 extra damage on each attack.
Level 5: Falchion's hitting for 0.5 extra.
Level 6: Rapier pulls ahead with 0.5 extra, and gains an extra 1 point lead 3 levels out of every 4.
Level 16: Rapier has a 7.5 point lead in the damage race. This is about where most APs end.

Again though, no real melee character is going to neglect their strength that much. Every time you upgrade that belt, cast that enlarge person, or bull's strength, or activate a barbarian rage, whatever, you're upping that lead. It's not unreasonable to consistently be walking around with a strength of 34 by level 16 if you're really pushing it. Do that and the falchion user is closing out a 16 level campaign doing only 3.5 less per hit than the rapier user, and if you're upgrading belts/activating buffs regularly enough (or starting with a 20 str), you keep the lead for a bigger chunk of the low end of the level spectrum.

It's worth keeping in mind that, doing 4.5 more damage per hit at level 1 is a way bigger deal than it is in the mid-teens. It's potentially the difference in dropping something with only 1 or 2 hits, and needing 4 or 5. At higher levels, when martial types can set themselves up to consistently pile up enough bonuses potentially hitting the triple digit range, any single digit edge is pretty trivial.

Then of course there's the precision damage issue. If something is immune, the rapier loses an amount of damage equal to its user's level off this curve, which makes a huge huge difference.

You also feel this difference any time you score a crit... which is going to be pretty often. 18+ crit ranges on the weapons we're talking about, double that and it's a 15+, or 30% of the time. Now true, if you have the Precise Strike deed, every time you score a crit, you can use the point of panache you gain from doing so to add that lost crit damage back in, but that's assuming that A- You don't need that swift action for anything else, B- you don't need that point of panache for anything else, and C- You aren't scoring multiple crits in a single round, and wasting panache by hitting your cap. Plus there's this weird offset where the extra damage gets added to your next hit, not the crit, which can get kinda screwy at times.

This point is particularly relevant if we're looking at a single rapier swashbuckler next to one with, say, paired sawtooth sabers. The latter's critting more often, already getting the full damage from doing so, and getting to keep the crit panache to spend elsewhere.

So really, it's not at all like having some sort of always-on smite bonus, like it looks at first glance. It's just a weird offset to the potential damage you're losing by fighting with one hand. It doesn't come close to compensating at low levels, but kinda makes up for it by catching up on the high end of things, but at the end of the day, your output is just being brought up to par with Timmy Two-Handed.

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I have an odd little notion for a game I might run some time, largely centered around villains with nasty habits of not staying dead for a variety of reasons. Reincarnated druid, clone shenanigans, rakshasas (timescale permitting), maybe some old standby undead.

The idea would be to really push the theme, with lots of suicidal plans, and paranoia about old enemies turning up again in new forms, ultimately leading up to having to work out some unorthodox and possibly ethically dubious way to finally settle things (like, oh, dragging everyone off to stand trial in Galt).

A lot of the appeal here is in having the primary villain show up at various times, being outright defeated (or committing suicide in some spectacular fashion), only to crop back up later. The problem here is, PCs, inevitably, are going to treat this as a puzzle. Subduing the big ol' taunting archvillain through non-lethal means would derail the whole thing, so... I need to plan ahead for all the various ways that could happen.

Off-hand I can think of:

Non-lethal damage followed by imprisonment- Easily addressed in any number of ways.

Baleful polymorph/petrification/trap the soul- Ring of counterspells maybe?

Allying with some form of undead or daemon- I don't think there's any easy way for PCs to enlist one of the relevant creatures, but I could very easily be wrong.

So... brainstorming time. Any spells/magic items/other odd shenanigans I'm forgetting that could short out the premise here? Any better ideas for how to counter them?

~Chapter 1: The Brinewall Legacy~

The time has come friends, to embark on a magical journey, stretching all the way to the far side of the globe in the exotic land of Minkai! Naturally a saga so grand in scope must begin in suitably epic fashion!


So... you're all in a bar in some tiny little town. There's a notice nailed up by the bar offering a bounty to any brave adventurers willing to go clear out a bunch of goblins in the nearby swamp.

Wait wait wait... did I mix up my notes with someone's first ever attempt at running a game? No? ... Oh? Oh I see! Well then, where was I?

To be much more specific, you are presently seated in the main room of the Rusty Dragon Inn, a rather nice little establishment in the sleepy town of Sandpoint, run by a charming young woman of obvious Tien descent by the name of Ameiko Kaijitsu.

The notice calling for 'brave adventurers' seems to be at least partially a joke. While a fair number of goblins live in small tribes scattered throughout the hinterlands, they are generally regarded to be a nuisance at best, and were they to pose any real serious threat to the town, there are a number of individuals more than qualified to deal with them, some of whom are actually gathered around you, catching up with Ameiko and sharing stories from the road.

In particular, one Sandru Vhiski (clearly a native Varisian to judge by his dress and swarthy feaures, unlike the Chellish-descended majority of the town's population) has arrived fairly recently after traveling up the coast from Korvosa and Magnimar, trading various goods to make his living. While he clearly has a history of sorts with the proprietor, the main reason for his current visit is actually to check in on his elderly adoptive mother, Koya Mvashti.

Arriving on the same day from the elven village of Crying Leaf is Shalelu Andosana, a woman of no small reputation, having personally dealt with a number of threats to the region, and by some accounts a personal friend to the town's truly noted heroes, a ragtag group which four years earlier repelled an invasion of giants from the mountains far to the east.

To celebrate such a reunion with her old friends, the surprisingly generous Ameiko has provided a free round of ale for everyone present, and the atmosphere is quite gleeful.

Each of you has some degree of familiarity with at least one of those chatting at the bar if not each other, but as they're busy catching up, it's as good a time as any to mingle a bit yourselves.

Here is the great big link to the caravan tracking sheet.

Ask any question that comes to mind, talk out of character, etc. etc.

OK folks! It's time to start up a fresh iteration of the Jade Regent adventure path! I'm actually going to be going with just 4 PCs here, and I've already promised one of those seats to someone, so... I'm going to have some tough choices to make when I close recruitment in a week I'm sure.

That said, here's how things are generally going to go:

- 20 point buy, each level you can either roll your HP or take the high end of average. Take the average for your class on starting cash too.

- Two traits, one of which must be one of the campaign traits listed in the player's guide, which you can pick up right here.

- Races allowed include, of course, the standard seven, as well as Tengu, Kitsune, Nagaji, and Samsaran. There's enough historical immigration from Tian Xia in Varisia played up in the AP after all. I'd also be inclined to allow goblins, because there's plenty of those around Sandpoint, but given that things start off with a bit of goblin extermination and a prominent friendly NPC tends to have it out for them, there would be some awkwardness to overcome.

- Classes are restricted to first party sources. Summoners cause too many headaches for me to be too keen on them, and I'm not a fan of setting-dependent archetypes being taken by people who aren't properly playing it up (i.e. Razmiran Priests and Black Blooded Oracles who don't respectively hail from Razmiran and the deepest depths of the Shadowlands). I'm not one of those people who has an issue with Gunslingers, but if you run with one you're most likely to be stuck crafting your own weapons and advanced firearms are off the table.

- Worth keeping in mind: While Jade Regent is often thought of as The Minkai AP, that's really only true of the final third. For the most part, it's really more of a long road trip being taken by a fairly close-knit group of small towners from Sandpoint who have known each other for most of their lives. Keep that in mind for both character concepts and long-term expectations.

Oh, and feel free to ask any questions.

6 seems to be a rather popular number of PCs to cram into an AP. The math is usually fairly easy to swing, it's enough people that you can justify telling more that it's already a big group, but not so many you can split it in half and still have enough people, and honestly, a fair number of APs seem to subtly promote it (The Skinsaw Murders in particular).

Assuming it's a popular enough number that a lot of people shoot for it, one can further assume for any given AP at least one person has done a really fantastic job of scaling it up (me, I tend to be lazy, multiplying even monster counts and liberally applying advanced templates). I know there's a few good ones scattered around these forums, and I figure hey, why not try and compile a list? Might as well keep it in one place too so it's (hopefully) easy to find for anyone who is trying to pick an AP to run for a plus-sized group, or just to bookmark if you're some sort of serial AP-runner.

So yeah, link'em if you've got'em.

The Zen Archer archetype specifically adds Rapid Shot and Manyshot to the list of bonus feats a monk can select.

The Zen Archer archetype allows a monk to use flurry of blows with a bow.

The Zen Archer archetype specifically says those feats cannot be used as part of a flurry.

The benefit of these feats are exactly the same as the benefit of using flurry of blows, but with a relative cumulative penalty on the attack rolls at level 1 and every 4 levels thereafter (and fewer attacks made over all after level 10).

There is no situation where a Zen Archer could use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when they could not instead use flurry of blows.

So... why do they get access to bonus feats they literally cannot ever get any benefit from? Was there some last minute change and the original intent was that these could be stacked, and their inclusion on the bonus feat list was never fixed because it's not worth issuing errata over? Is the restriction itself an error? Is there some bizarre corner case I'm not seeing which makes these feats actually useful in some way?

A player in the game I'm running is really gung-ho about transformation based disguises (i.e. I'm going to turn into a bird and fly up this tree), and wants a way to share them with the rest of the party, via magic item/new spell/whatever.

After putting some thought into it, the easiest way to give him what he wanted that I could come up with was a new metamagic feat (single level increase): polymorph subschool spells with a range of personal may be cast as touch spells on willing recipients.

So, if you really need to pass the whole party off as half-orcs and don't want to give the charade up by casting light spells, blow a level 3 slot per party member of alter self boosted to alter other, and you're good to go. Same with monstrous physique, beast shape, etc.

Question is, is there some case I'm forgetting where one of these spells, even in a higher level slot, is obscenely broken when you can cast it on someone with full BAB?

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It happens to everyone eventually. You have this big grandiose adventure planned out, all these maps, all these subtle hints, this big elaborate set piece battle all planned out... and the PCs somehow skip it all. All that hard work on stuff they're not going to see, and they're basically down a whole level's worth of XP and loot. Now what?

First off, it's worth bearing in mind that this sort of thing is, generally, totally on you. Pay attention to what spells and abilities the PCs are picking up as they level. If they have flight, teleportation, and the ability to disintegrate/burrow through/melt walls, expect them to use those abilities at every opportunity. If you don't want them doing that, make sure to start making any dungeons you're throwing at them spell-shielded underground complexes with indestructable walls... and make sure to let the players know you're going to do that so they don't waste slots on those spells.

That said, it's a tricky situation. Personally, as a GM, I try to approach things as a fan of the PCs (I am happy when they come up with clever ideas and outwit enemies), and an impartial arbiter (I don't fudge die-rolls or tweak monsters on the fly), so I'm fine with it. If you manage to bypass everything and cut directly to the end of the adventure, fine. They might fight the big bad boss at the end a level or two down, but they'll be at full strength, and presumably they can escape the way they snuck in if things get too rough. If that and maybe some plot token in a treasure wad is all they were there for, that's fine, I'll just end the session early. I find usually it's more just a question of wanting to deal with the biggest/most urgent threat first though, and groups I play with will usually work their way through the place backwards anyway.

Worst case scenario, if I'm running something I wrote myself, they skip the whole thing and never come back... I can just recycle elements here and there for future stuff. No big deal.

Worst case scenario for an AP, I've actually had come up. Book 5 of Legacy of Fire, party basically skipped the whole adventure, which is something of a prison break situation. No reason to backtrack, time pressure to move on, truckload of experience and loot left on the table. There, I roughed out how much XP they missed out on and just gave it to them as a lump sum to keep them on par, left the loot to rot (APs tend not to leave people hurting for cash, and there wasn't really a place to go shopping before the end of the campaign, so hey).

I'm somewhat curious how other people handle this though.

I've got an unwieldly herd of potential players here all excited for me to run Jade Regent. I just ended up running a Pathfinderized 7-player version of Legacy of Fire, only one person from that doesn't want in on this, and there's a good 5 or 6 more people who have been waiting in the wings for if I ever have an opening. Now, obviously, I'm not going to try and upscale everything for a 12 person party, but I'm looking at at least 6 if not more.

Upscaling LoF has taught me that my go-to method of doing so leaves something to be desired (and tends to create some really cramped fighting conditions) so... anyone out there feel like saving me the trouble?

It would be a huge weight off my shoulders if anyone happens to have a list of monsters/levels/treasure they added for a group of n players, or the head counts/treasure piles it left them with.

Barring that, any cautionary tales would be appreciated. "Don't just double the monster count in here, this fight tends to flow into a narrow hallway!" "Better add more caravan NPCs so everyone can pair off with someone in chapter 3!" "Giving 2 more levels to this boss lead to a TPK!" Stuff like that.

Thanks in advance.

Any other tips would be appreciated to. I seem to recall once hearing something about someone wishing they'd nudged their players towards certain exotic weapon proficiencies. I assume katanas, anything else?

I was somehow roped into running LoF (Pathfinder converted) for a group of 7 PCs. So far it's actually been running very smoothly. If it isn't a named NPC, double the number encountered. If it is a named NPC, max the HP and bring in more backup.

The Carrion King went fantastically, I just brought Thok Tal in as the fight was starting.

Coming up on the end of Jackal's Price and getting into End of Eternity though, this is looking real tricky. The whole warehouse encounter is nothing but a few complete canon fodder thugs, and a number of named NPCs. If I were expecting a big throw-down fight, I could just throw everyone at them at once, or, if it really came down to it, spend a full day statting out new high ranking members to fill things out. As it stands, I'm 95% sure that they'll take advantage of the situation at the end here, which allows for bypassing the climactic battle entirely. The run-up to that though is still tricky to bring up to par.

Plus, there's a chance that they'll go through door number 2 before door number 1. I don't want to beef things up with extra mooks, both because it ruins the A has B kill C setup if anyone else is around, and because quite frankly I can't think of anything that could possibly share a room with an emkrah.

And of course, once I finish up with that, it's on to the next book which is lousy with solo monsters early on. The ram and the dragon turtle in particular strike me as things that have to remain all on one fights, both of which are going to be tricky to beef up.

Anyone out there who's run this for a big group find a good solution for these? Or, any other nasty ones down the road? I don't recall anything else from my initial readthrough that'll cause major problems until the big fight at the end of the AP, but I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two.

Flowing Monks get the ability Elusive Target, which allows them to "attempt a Reflex save opposed by an attacker’s attack roll to halve damage from that attack."

Monks (flowing or otherwise) get evasion, which says "If a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage," along with improved evasion, which upgrades that to none/half from half/full.

I assume, since Elusive Target ups the effectiveness to working like Improved Evasion, that having evasion/improved evasion does not actually help with elusive target saves, however...

- Rules As Written it totally applies.

- Evasion has a restriction against wearing armor if you want the benefits, while Elusive Target does not.

I'm still assuming there's an unspoken exception, but I figure it's worth double checking.

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One thing I was really hoping to see in the Advanced Race Guide was a modified version of the result chart for the Reincarnate spell. If all these new races are on the table for new PCs, it's only fair you should be able to come back as one after all. Since there wasn't, I went ahead and made my own:

Advanced Reincarnate Table

I'm fairly proud of it really. Every ARG race is now included, plus a few others, however, by breaking it into sub-tables and throwing in a 33% chance of using the same table your current race is found on, I was pretty much able to keep the odds of coming back as any given thing similar to what's on the original chart for most of the core 7 races, while at the same time weighing things so that someone playing, say, a goblin, has a good 40% or so chance of at least staying goblinoid.

Half-Elves and Half-Orcs come out pretty rarely, as there are a ton of other half-human races that needed to be crammed in, but again, with weighting, hybrids are likely to remain hybrids of some kind, and the odds of coming back as specifically a half-human half-elf on the original chart always struck me as weirdly high to begin with.

The Highly Unusual table is largely optional, no sense turning that 1% GM's choice result into a 0.2% chance, but as there's stats for centaurs and driders in the ARG's examples, I figured it wouldn't hurt to toss them in as a marginal thing.

As of first posting this, the stat adjustments for all this still need filling in, but odds wise, I'm pretty happy with it.

"These tight iron cuffs can fit over the wrists of any Large or smaller humanoid. When placed on a helpless humanoid, they make the captive more docile and compliant. The prisoner never attempts to escape of its own volition and agrees to any reasonable request unless it makes a DC 11 Will saving throw."

The way I would generally be inclined to read that strikes me as insanely overpowered for a 2000 GP item whose only spell requirement is Charm Person:

This can be used on anyone who, at any time, has the Helpless condition, which is comes along with being "paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy." Actually wait, side question there- "held?" You can't coup de grace someone your friend has grappled, can you?

Anyway, the important bit here- It is possible to get this manacles on someone if you manage to paralyze/pin/sleep them for... well, not even a whole round, just long enough for your friend to slap them on, which I believe would just be a standard action.

At that point, it seems 3 clauses activate:

A- "They make the captive more docile and compliant." Open to some interpretation, but at the very least, I'd figure that would instantly end a barbarian's rage if nothing else.

B- "The prisoner never attempts to escape of its own volition." Hugely open to interpretation. At the very least, this seems to clearly indicate that there is absolutely nothing you can do to get the manacles off. I could additionally see it covering: Escaping from any other form of bondage (rope around your legs, bodily strapped to a horse, etc.), attempting to flee, even without being otherwise prevented from doing so, or attempting to in any way harm the person who slapped you with the shackles or their allies. That much would seem to cover the basic intent of the item ("Is there some magic item we can use to get this guy back to town without having to deal with him constantly taking 20 on escape artist and making us knock him back out?") I could even see the argument made that you can't even say, use message to explain the situation to your friends if you really wanted a broad definition of escape.

C- "[The prisoner] agrees to any reasonable request unless it makes a DC 11 Will saving throw." I want to say this much is pretty clear cut, but... reasonable request actually is pretty vague under these conditions. If someone is your unwilling captive, the argument can be made that it isn't reasonable for them to go along with any suggestion you make. Particularly since said suggestions would most likely be along the lines of pressing them for information about their allies, or marching themselves off to face a higher authority. Especially considering they're powered by charm person, which, if cast by itself, would end immediately under basically any conditions that would lead to shackling someone.

B is the real sticking point here. This isn't really a low level magic item you can use to completely render someone a completely docile captive who will stay out of all combat, with no save other than the one to avoid whatever condition left them helpless enough to pop them on, is it?

At the start of the list'o'guns here, the description of advanced firearms in general specifies that "Advanced firearms do not misfire." The next page has a list of 3 different advanced firearms, with clearly listed misfire chances and explosion ranges. Am I missing something?

Also, does "They use metal cartridges as ammunition" mean they're the only guns which can be loaded with metal cartridges, or that they can ONLY be loaded with metal cartridges?

And for that matter, does the Secret Stash feat allow metal cartridges or pellets as free pulls, or is there a built-in incentive to stick with simpler guns with it for some reason?

The only thread I found mentioning this was for the round 1 beta, and it's still listed this way in the round two.

For my first feat, I take Secret Stash Deed.

For 1 grit point, I can now pull free ammo out of my boot I forgot I'd picked up somewhere. Hilarious.

For my second feat, I take Signature Deed (Secret Stash), reducing the cost of the above to 0.

Great! Now I don't ever have to worry about buying/crafting the pricy ammo for my weird non-standard weapon of mine.

Of course, were I a munchkin, I could make the argument that there's nothing in the rules as written keeping me from shaking out my little bandana of infinite ammo over the counter at the general store and sell what falls out.

Really, the exploitable bit here is all on Secret Stash, since being able to turn a theoretical profit off a feat that's really just about non-magical goofy fun is messed up, and frankly, having the ability to pull infinite ammo from behind your ear and saving yourself all the associated bookkeeping is the only way I really see it being worthwhile anyway.

Best fix I can see to keep the flavor and utility without the stupid exploit is to allow it to only be used "in desperation." Defined as being in combat, with an unloaded weapon, and not having enough ammo for a full round action's worth of firing. Or in the case of special ammo, being out of that flavor let's you convert what you have on you to it on the fly.