Traveling to Runeforge


Rise of the Runelords

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm confused about one of the options for getting to Runeforge.

Spoiler:
How is plane shift viable? Say the party gets the material component and wants to return later. Doesn't plane shift place them 5 to 500 miles from their destination? If the diameter of the Runeforge sphere is 2 miles, won't plane shift always dump travelers in the void surrounding the Runeforge?

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spoiler:
If players use plane shift to travel to Runeforge and the GM places them outside of Runeforge for that reason, I would say that's bad GM'ing. It would be much more fun to place them at a random location inside Runeforge.

-Skeld

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Skeld wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Totally agree. Which is why it left me so confused.

Spoiler:
It seems that RAW it's impossible for plane shift to deposit one inside the Runeforge. The spell's minimum distance from your intended destination is always outside unless I'm misreading the spell.


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Umm, you're thinking too hard about this...

Spoiler:

And if you have them arrive outside Runeforge, then what? It's a death trap? They can't get in from outside - no opening and they can't teleport in (it's blocked.) Not to be too snarky, but if the rule results in something silly, ignore the rule. If you need some logical justifications, try these on for size:

- you can't plane shift into open air and the only solid ground on the entire plane is in Runeforge, ergo, that's where you land. If want to watch them squirm, have them land in a random Hall. If you're a kindler, gentler DM, have them land at the Runeforge itself where they can pick which Hall to enter.

- today's version of plane shift is primitive. Those Thassilon guys knew their stuff - a tuning fork from that era has precise accuracy. Using it always returns you to the Ravenous Crypts, F4. Or, again, if your in a giving mood, the Runeforge

- Plane Shift is built on the assumption the target plane is infinite in size and in that case, 5-500 miles is an awesome level of precision. I guess if you want to argue Runeforge is infinite you can but it's almost all empty void - seems a legalistic and sort of <word that rhymes with trick> move to me. Seems simpler to just redefine Runeforge to be a finite plane bounded at the outer edge with an impenetrable planar barrier - it's a restricted size demi-plane. And voila! they land wherever in Runeforge you deem fit.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TomParker wrote:
Skeld wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Totally agree. Which is why it left me so confused.

** spoiler omitted **

You're not misreading the spell, it's simply that the RAW interpretation in this case leads to to a pointless result. This is a situation where doggedly following the rules results in a lame outcome. Throw RAW out the window on this one.

Don't be a slave to the rules. When something doesn't make RAW sense, ditch RAW and go with what does make sense.

-Skeld


My group has played Plane Shift, when shifting to something smaller than 5 miles, to drop you randomly within the area of the plane they're going to. The tuning fork is attuned, to, say, a personal demiplane that is just 39 10' cubes big. The fork will get you somewhere on that plane, because it is attuned to it. It's just that the plane is too small for the inaccuracy of the spell to matter as much.

Think of it this way. You try to Plane Shift into a specific 10' space in a small demiplane. The dice indicate you end up 200 miles from there. You get metaphorically spun around in circles within the demiplane until you've traveled 200 miles from your intended target. Only, the plane is so small, you land only 10' over from where you were aiming. And you're probably dizzy, although that's just flavor.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You certainly could be within your rights to have them arrive with some sort of negative condition for their efforts at using Plane Shift to get into a small place like that.


Uh you guys do know that there is a turning fork attuned to runeforge in the runeforge itself...


It's not access to the fork that is the issue, it is the accuracy of plane shift.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Java Man wrote:
It's not access to the fork that is the issue, it is the accuracy of plane shift.

But the AP does state that there is no way to access the fork before arriving in Runeforge:

Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, p. 253 wrote:
There are no wards against planar travel to and from Runeforge, but the tuning fork material component required to travel here using plane shift is unknown outside of its walls.

If the PCs somehow got their hands on the tuning fork before arriving in Runeforge, or got there through the keys, found the tuning fork, left, and wanted to go back using plane shift, I think I'd follow Latrecis's suggestion - seems to me that the Runeforge demiplane is the sphere and only the sphere. The endless void surrounding it is not the demiplane, it's where the demiplane is located. Since the spell is supposed to take you to the specific plane associated with the tuning fork, you are limited to the Runeforge sphere.

If you've got a rules lawyer at the table, you can always point out that nothing in the spell description says the 5-500 miles must be in a straight line - if the diameter of the sphere is two miles, the circumference would be approximately 6.283 miles, so getting 5+ miles away by going around the inner surface would be a piece of cake. Of course, you'd be much closer than that to your intended destination going around the other direction, but that's a different problem.

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