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Mythic Power Attack Question


Player Feedback

Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay, so Mythic Power Attack reads as follows:

Power Attack (Mythic)
Your attacks are truly devastating.
Prerequisite: Power Attack, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls (instead of +2). When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 (instead of +2). In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a x3 or x4 Critical Hit modifier? Does that effect as normal? Or is the extra Mythic Power attack damage only doubled?

Shadow Lodge

Does this change for two-handed weapons like normal Power Attack does, as well?

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

6 people marked this as a favorite.

So, if you have a +3 damage bonus from Mythic Power Attack and you score a critical hit with a x3 weapon, the bonus damage is +12, treating the multiplier as one step higher, as per usual when adding together multipliers. If it were a x4 weapon, the bonus damage from Mythic Power Attack would be +15.

I will make a note to clean up this language. It is not our standard.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Taldor

Orthos wrote:
Does this change for two-handed weapons like normal Power Attack does, as well?

I assume it should. It just changes the number from +2 to +3...

So
levels 1-3 +3/+4
Levels 4-7 +6/+9
Levels 8-11 +9/+13
Levels 12-15 +12/+18
Levels 16-19 +15/+22
And level 20 +18/+27

Shadow Lodge

I would assume so too, but didn't want to make assumptions where the feat doesn't say so =)


Two-Handed Fighter Mythic Power Attack anyone?

Grand Lodge

Hama wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Does this change for two-handed weapons like normal Power Attack does, as well?

I assume it should. It just changes the number from +2 to +3...

So
levels 1-3 +3/+4
Levels 4-7 +6/+9
Levels 8-11 +9/+13
Levels 12-15 +12/+18
Levels 16-19 +15/+22
And level 20 +18/+27

sure it's not 4/8/12/16/20/24? Also would that mean light weapons would be 2/4/6/8/10/12 or would it be 1/3/4/6/7/9? Instead of 50% it could be a straight out +-1 thing. It should be cleared up in anycase.

Taldor

Nope, did the math.

The number on the left from the / is one-handed and on the right is for two handed.
As far as i know 18 divided by 2 is 9 and that added to 18 makes 27.

Taldor

The rules clearly state that +3 REPLACES +2 as the power attack bonus.

Grand Lodge

Hama wrote:
The rules clearly state that +3 REPLACES +2 as the power attack bonus.

Yes the rules do CLEARLY state that...what it also doesn't clearly state is EVERTHING else. As currently written and taken literally, the feat does NOTHING for the +1 or +3 weapon choices as it doesn't say it does. The 50% extrapolation is a RAI on your part. When writting rules, best to make sure you have to rely as little on RAI as possible.


It's stated in the Power Attack feat, it says the bonus is increased by 50% for two-handed weapons, and reduced by 50% for off-hand. If the bonus is replaced, then it works.

Taldor

Yep. Sorry, forgot to calculate for off hand here

+1
+3
+4
+6
+7
+9

Grand Lodge

Talynonyx wrote:
It's stated in the Power Attack feat, it says the bonus is increased by 50% for two-handed weapons, and reduced by 50% for off-hand. If the bonus is replaced, then it works.

Yes the power attack feat itself has the 50%...HOWEVER the mythic feat says that you get +3 instead of the +2...that is not the same as replace the +2 of the power attack feat with +3. Also the 50% causes half numbers which is gonna invariably lead to the round up or down question so either it should be done at a +-1 or have the progression plotted out.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

5 people marked this as a favorite.

This increase does apply to the 50% off hand and 150% two handed applications.

I will look to clarify this a bit.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You know, since this is at a mythic powerlevel...rounding up may not be a bad idea. Perhaps not as a general mythic rule, but in a few places here or there.


Cold Napalm wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
It's stated in the Power Attack feat, it says the bonus is increased by 50% for two-handed weapons, and reduced by 50% for off-hand. If the bonus is replaced, then it works.
Yes the power attack feat itself has the 50%...HOWEVER the mythic feat says that you get +3 instead of the +2...that is not the same as replace the +2 of the power attack feat with +3. Also the 50% causes half numbers which is gonna invariably lead to the round up or down question so either it should be done at a +-1 or have the progression plotted out.

If someone is getting confused about half-numbers, then they're probably just a munchkin looking to get an extra +1 from somewhere.

You almost ALWAYS round down in this game. The only time I think you round up is when calculating APL.

Grand Lodge

Tels wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
It's stated in the Power Attack feat, it says the bonus is increased by 50% for two-handed weapons, and reduced by 50% for off-hand. If the bonus is replaced, then it works.
Yes the power attack feat itself has the 50%...HOWEVER the mythic feat says that you get +3 instead of the +2...that is not the same as replace the +2 of the power attack feat with +3. Also the 50% causes half numbers which is gonna invariably lead to the round up or down question so either it should be done at a +-1 or have the progression plotted out.

If someone is getting confused about half-numbers, then they're probably just a munchkin looking to get an extra +1 from somewhere.

You almost ALWAYS round down in this game. The only time I think you round up is when calculating APL.

See how you had to use the word ALMOST. And even with that almost, all the rounding texts do state to do it either down or up so really that text to should be included with the 50% increase/decrease. And yes if the rules are clearly stated, it will stop numerious muchkins from trying to get that extra +1...and the saving of that headache is worth the few extra words to say to round down.

Qadira

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

This increase does apply to the 50% off hand and 150% two handed applications.

I will look to clarify this a bit.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Hey Jason, While I know you can't always take everything into account when making new feats and such, but the Two-Handed Fighter archetype would probably also like to be able to benefit from Mythic Power Attack (like they really needed the help) so please try to keep that in mind when you rewrite this mythic feat.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cold Napalm wrote:
And even with that almost, all the rounding texts do state to do it either down or up

Actually, the vast majority of things that round don't mention rounding at all. This is because the rule is to round down always; it's explicitly stated so in the Core Rulebook. There are a very few exceptions, and they always explicity state that they round up. If it doesn't say round up, in Pathfinder or in 3.5, you round down, always.

Cheliax

Stratagemini wrote:

Okay, so Mythic Power Attack reads as follows:

Power Attack (Mythic)
Your attacks are truly devastating.
Prerequisite: Power Attack, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls (instead of +2). When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 (instead of +2). In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a x3 or x4 Critical Hit modifier? Does that effect as normal? Or is the extra Mythic Power attack damage only doubled?

At what point was power attack not supposed to be multiplied in a critical hit. No where does it say power attack isn't multiplied on a critical hit. Its not listed in the feat description nor the combat rules for a critical hit.

If its not, then I (and my entire group, and every group I have ever played with) have been doing it wrong...for like ever...

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html


1 person marked this as a favorite.
DragonBringerX wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:

Okay, so Mythic Power Attack reads as follows:

Power Attack (Mythic)
Your attacks are truly devastating.
Prerequisite: Power Attack, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls (instead of +2). When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 (instead of +2). In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a x3 or x4 Critical Hit modifier? Does that effect as normal? Or is the extra Mythic Power attack damage only doubled?

At what point was power attack not supposed to be multiplied in a critical hit. No where does it say power attack isn't multiplied on a critical hit. Its not listed in the feat description nor the combat rules for a critical hit.

If its not, then I (and my entire group, and every group I have ever played with) have been doing it wrong...for like ever...

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html

If Power Attack isn't supposed to be multiplied on a crit, then I'd feel pretty safe saying every player in every group the world over has been doing it wrong.

Kind of like Flurry of Blows...

Taldor

Cold Napalm wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
It's stated in the Power Attack feat, it says the bonus is increased by 50% for two-handed weapons, and reduced by 50% for off-hand. If the bonus is replaced, then it works.
Yes the power attack feat itself has the 50%...HOWEVER the mythic feat says that you get +3 instead of the +2...that is not the same as replace the +2 of the power attack feat with +3. Also the 50% causes half numbers which is gonna invariably lead to the round up or down question so either it should be done at a +-1 or have the progression plotted out.

Dude. Read what you wrote. Putting a +3 instead of a +2 is means EXACTLY to replace one number with the other.

Also, of course Power attack is multiplied on a crit.


The part about the critical is indeed very confusing! We thought we might have been doing it wrong for 14 levels. Also makes critical damage a pain to calculate, since part of your damage is working off a different multiplier than the rest. I would honestly rather not have it, just because it would slow down my turns every time I got a crit.

Regarding two-handed and light weapons; at higher levels, is the 1.5 or 0.5 multiplier applied at the end, or the beginning? For example, a 12th-level fighter with Mythic Power Attack and a one-handed weapon would take a -4 penalty and add +12 damage. If he used a two-handed weapon, would he add +18 damage (4.5 * 4), or +16 (4.5 rounded down to 4 * 4)?

Finally, it should probably specify in the feat that the multipliers still apply at all. I had to find this thread to get my DM to agree that it wasn't a flat +3 regardless of weapon.

For reference, I am playing a 14th level fighter/barbarian, with the Two-Handed Fighter archetype, in the Savage Tide. The game's been running since PF Alpha.


WarDragon wrote:

The part about the critical is indeed very confusing! We thought we might have been doing it wrong for 14 levels. Also makes critical damage a pain to calculate, since part of your damage is working off a different multiplier than the rest. I would honestly rather not have it, just because it would slow down my turns every time I got a crit.

Regarding two-handed and light weapons; at higher levels, is the 1.5 or 0.5 multiplier applied at the end, or the beginning? For example, a 12th-level fighter with Mythic Power Attack and a one-handed weapon would take a -4 penalty and add +12 damage. If he used a two-handed weapon, would he add +18 damage (4.5 * 4), or +16 (4.5 rounded down to 4 * 4)?

Finally, it should probably specify in the feat that the multipliers still apply at all. I had to find this thread to get my DM to agree that it wasn't a flat +3 regardless of weapon.

For reference, I am playing a 14th level fighter/barbarian, with the Two-Handed Fighter archetype, in the Savage Tide. The game's been running since PF Alpha.

What 0.5 multiplier for light weapons?


I was thinking off-hand weapons, sorry.

Rest of the question stands.

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