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As far as I'm aware, none of the upcoming APs that we know about (Hellbreakers, Hell's Destiny, and the newly-announced Bastion of Blasphemies) are designed for mythic.
Not in Monster Core 2, but they're supposedly in the upcoming Draconic Codex.
My GM uses a homebrew setting and neither of us liked the "you need to have a bit of a god within you to be an exemplar" since the announcement of the classNone of my Exemplar ideas are dependent on "and then Gorum died messily, all over the planet". They are always things that predate Gorums death. Like stuff made in other planes millennia ago. Or where each Ikon only provides part of the spark, rather then the spark being external. Certainly not a necessary component. I have two "paired" exemplar concepts that can basically be summed up as a "shonen manga protagonist" wandering samurai-style swordswoman straight out of One Piece and her childhood friend/lifelong rival constantly chasing after a rematch (and totally not just to hang out). Both have a little something extra in their ancestry ("protag" is a hungerseed, "rival" is an imperial sky dragon dragonblood - I like my versatile heritages), but don't really have anything else to justify their abilities beyond several years of harsh but otherwise relatively mundane martial arts/kendo training at a mountaintop dojo in Minkai. In terms of builds, both are lightly armored "lightning bruisers". "Protag" would combine a Barrow's Edge katana and Scar of the Survivor with the hungerseed's Bloodsoaked Dash and Oni Rampage feats to get advantages for taking a lot of damage while being difficult to actually put down. Energized Spark for Metal (slashing) and Fire damage. For Epithets: The Brave, either Born of the Bones of the Earth or Peerless Under Heaven, then the Last Ruler. "Rival" takes the opposite approach, combining the dragonblood's Scaly Hide feat with the Skin Hard as Horn ikon to be very damage resistant while using a Gleaming Blade katana alongside Gaze Sharp as Steel. Energized Spark for Metal (slashing) and Electricity damage. For Epithets: The Proud, either Peerless Under Heaven or Whose Cry is Thunder, then the Last Ruler. Both might pick up the Spirit Warrior archetype along with an unarmed Titan's Breaker fourth ikon, and "rival" will probably try to pick up Quick Draw via Duelist for iaijutsu purposes.
I've had a character concept percolating in my head for a while that can essentially be described as a tiny shard of the Norse god Odin incarnated into the body of a recently deceased mortal, travelling around under an array of (thinly veiled) aliases doing classically godly/heroic deeds and seeking out knowledge and secrets in typical Odin fashion. I originally envisioned the character for use in D&D's Planescape setting, but it doesn't take much effort to make it work for Golarion - pretty easy to imagine why a god known for an interest/obsession with prophecy might find the causes/ramifications of the Age of Lost Omens worthy of investigation. Basics of the build would be a Human with the Battleblooded Nephilim heritage (or if I can swing it, possibly Starfinder's Borai), using a Barrow's Edge spear with the Gaze Sharp as Steel ikon and Energized Spark (Wood) to try to hit hard with piercing damage, which in turn feeds into the Barrow's Edge self-healing. Less firm on the third and optional fourth ikons: considering Scar of the Survivor (for even more self-healing/survivability), Bands of Imprisonment (for speed/mobility), and Victor's Wreath (for party support). Epithets would be The Cunning, Peerless Under Heaven, and probably The Last Ruler. Too many feat choice permutations to get into, but if I can make it fit (or if Free Archetype/Dual-Class is in play), very likely to pick up a spellcaster multiclass archetype, probably Witch.
Fundamentally, I look at it this way. In the announcement video, they say that around the midpoint of the campaign, the PCs join up with Andoran forces and make a push into Egorian. Interpret that however you see fit.
Fundamentally, I look at it this way. If high level PCs are marching with a force of Andoran military into Egorian, then the Chelaxian military, and by extension Abrogail herself, has either lost the ability to stop them or doesn't care enough to try. By the same token, if high level PCs are marching with a force of Andoran military into Egorian, they are not going to leave without achieving their objective and there is no scenario I can see where that objective does not include breaking House Thrune's control over Cheliax. Could Abrogail survive to remain a problem for the future, and even achieve some other goals (ascension to archdevil/godhood) in the process? Sure. But practically speaking, she's going to be removed as the ruler of Cheliax, which means there's going to be a power vacuum, and without House Thrune holding it together, Cheliax will tear itself apart.
Is there a link to these announcements? Video on Paizo Twitch Channel: Link
Little bit of news via today's Adventure Updates stream. Official announcement of Lost Omens Hellfire Dispatches, as well as the sequel AP to Hellbreakers - Hell's Destiny. Not too much to go on, but the general premise seems to be the PCs starting uprisings along Cheliax's western coastline, moving inland and eventually meeting up with Andoran forces, then pushing all the way into Egorian and ultimately even somewhere beyond (implicitly Hell itself). Sounds like a full on decapitation strike, which is pretty much what I was expecting/dreading. I don't see Abrogail or House Thrune making it out of this without being forcibly removed from power at the very least, which in turn probably means Cheliax tearing itself apart due to the resulting power vacuum. So yeah, Warring States Cheliax it is, I guess...
Besides, if Cheliax isn't going to call upon Ravounel's military aid in a war against Andoran that basically everyone sees as a potentially existential threat to House Thrune, then pray tell, under what circumstances would they call upon them?They wouldn't and shouldn't. Ravounel's army, because of its composition, lack of training, lack of equipment, its units' cohesive principle (such as it is), and its leaders' lack of commitment to the overall cause, is anywhere from useless to actively counterproductive to deploy anywhere, because its units are more likely to dissolve, desert, or defect than they are to hold their position or advance under orders. Any place it is deployed is therefore a weakness the enemy is bound to exploit. Forcing it to fight by means of blocking detachments also weakens the overall effort, since those detachments could have simply been deployed to the front with less trouble and more effectiveness. Ah, so that provision of the non-aggression treaty between Ravounel and Cheliax was a complete waste of paper both in-universe and IRL? They may not have much value to Cheliax from a military strategy perspective, but the realpolitik suggests to me that there's good reason to at least try to keep Ravounel and Andoran from teaming up when there's otherwise no real reason for them not to do so.
all while ensuring Ravounel can't backstab them at an opportune moment by striking into the Chelaxian heartland.An impossibility about which no planners in Egorian rationally ought to be worried. The point is not that Ravounel is a serious military threat to Cheliax. The point is that Ravounel supporting Andoran and Isgeri rebels is an existential threat to House Thrune, given that even an accidental violation of the Kintargo Contract could see Cheliax's alliance with Hell go up in smoke. Finding ways to antagonize Cheliax to try and bait some hot-headed, glory-seeking border commander into fighting back probably isn't worth the risk if Ravounel has to face the full wrath of a furious House Thrune alone. But with the bulk of the Chelaxian military locked in a war with Andoran and Isgeri rebels on the eastern front? When they could all but win the war for Andoran with a single altercation that goes "wrong" and bring down House Thrune once and for all? If Ravounel's left alone to do as they wish, there is no reason for them not to back Andoran the moment they see an opportunity. Cheliax has the option to call them in against Andoran, driving a rift between two states that have every reason to ally and no love for House Thrune. Besides, if Cheliax isn't going to call upon Ravounel's military aid in a war against Andoran that basically everyone sees as a potentially existential threat to House Thrune, then pray tell, under what circumstances would they call upon them?
Oh, well then Ravounel is a complete non-factor, whatever side it's on, and ought not to be discussed further. The only reason for Cheliax to expend tremendous resources for the sake of mobilizing a militarily insignificant number of poorly-trained, worse-equipped, inexperienced, and otherwise ineffective soldiers across half a continent is petty cruelty, and while Cheliax has that in spades, questions of victory or defeat really should put that to the side in short order. Within the first few months or weeks. Petty cruelty, sure. It also keeps as much of Ravounel's military as they can get trapped on the frontlines far from their homeland while pitting them against their ideological allies, helping to poison any relationship between Ravounel and Andoran, all while ensuring Ravounel can't backstab them at an opportune moment by striking into the Chelaxian heartland.
Oh, I have every confidence that any aid Ravounel provides to Cheliax will be the absolute minimum that they can get away with - I'm just not convinced Cheliax would ever let them get away with anything short of putting Ravounel bodies on the field against Andoran. It may be difficult to get soldiers over the mountains or around the coast to the Inner Sea, but it's not impossible, particularly if Cheliax (or even Nidal) is "helping" to facilitate troop transport. Or at least force them to back both sides, while keeping their contributions to Andoran and the Hellbreaker's League clandestine.This is probably the limit to which they want to be involved anyway. Ravounel's state is not built to sustain anything like a total war, and its army is not built to do open offensive operations. Bunch of supplies disappearing through Dreamgate to Breechill though? Totally doable and completely deniable. They could have come from the Mwangi Expanse, or from Katapesh. And no, you can't send inspectors to check, that would be in violation of your treaty obligations wit Hell. Last we heard, Paizo isn't planning on Alseta's Ring being a factor in the war, with the default assumption being that the heroes of Age of Ashes found a way to "shut it down" sometime between the end of that AP and whenever they left Breachill. If it were active, it'd certainly be a strategic concern, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume it's working in some scenarios and not others. Until we get word that it's been reactivated, I don't think we can assume Ravounel, or anyone else, has an aiudara gate with a direct, working connection to Isger.
I would also remember that while Ravounel may be more ideologically inclined to side with Andoran and the Hellbreaker's League, they are nonetheless obligated to side militarily with Cheliax if called upon as a condition of their independence. Obviously it's a moot point if Ravounel believes that siding against Cheliax would finish off House Thrune once and for all, but were Abby to call them in early enough and the potential threat of failing to honor their alliance dire enough, I suspect she could effectively lock them in on the Chelaxian side of the conflict. Or at least force them to back both sides, while keeping their contributions to Andoran and the Hellbreaker's League clandestine.
Like what really changes about Cheliax in terms of its role in the setting if it falls back into civil war where one of the competing factions is explicitly diabolist? There's a story to tell inside of Cheliax about how the Nobility has not done well under Thrune, and neither has the middle class, and both would probably like this to change. I mean, Hell is certainly not popular with everybody in Cheliax, and perhaps not even with the majority. Yes, I am aware. I don't know how many times I can say "I think Cheliax needs to get some wins in order to continue feeling like it can be a compelling, competent villainous presence in the setting." If an evil empire is not a meaningful threat, then there's no point to it. We're basically at the point where Cheliax can't stand to lose much more without literally running out of things to lose at the same time it's heading into an active war with Andoran, with everyone already metaphorically dancing on Abrogail's grave before the first Hellfire Crisis book is even properly out. House Thrune collapsing and Cheliax becoming "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" between a bunch of Hellknight warlords, a handful of diabolist cults, and whatever the Great Master turns out to be, might theoretically be an interesting angle to explore, but it requires destroying the Cheliax that currently exists in order to do so, and I happen to like the Cheliax as it is.
Like what really changes about Cheliax in terms of its role in the setting if it falls back into civil war where one of the competing factions is explicitly diabolist? There's a story to tell inside of Cheliax about how the Nobility has not done well under Thrune, and neither has the middle class, and both would probably like this to change. I mean, Hell is certainly not popular with everybody in Cheliax, and perhaps not even with the majority. The ability to project power outward against literally any of its neighbors and pose even a semblance of a unified front against anything that might threaten it, up to an including foreign influences that want to tip the scales in favor of one faction or another? Its status as a major regional power within the Inner Sea, much less whatever might remain of its colonial ambitions?
What tabletop settings (that lean into good and evil being meaningful things) do not have at least one evil-led country? Why do New Edasseril, the Whispering Tyrant's realm, Mzali, Geb, Nidal, and a half-dozen other examples not count as evil-led countries? What's so special and worth preserving about House Throne specifically as a setting element? Ah yes, no point in resisting the fall of the (Western) Roman Empire - nothing we can't get from it that we can't get just as well from the fractious, squabbling city-states of medieval Italy once they've had a few centuries to get their act together, and maybe we can even have a Renaissance a thousand years or so down the road. Just throw off the togas already and bow to your new Gothic overlords. I happen to like Cheliax as it is - I find it interesting and compelling in a way that basically none of the other "We have [Evil Nation] at Home" options do. Particularly since undead have never held much interest for me, which tosses out a significant portion of the list. Cheliax collapsing would destroy one of the parts of the setting I enjoy most and essentially expect me to be happy with the knowledge that there might be a handful of pieces of what I like left somewhere amongst the rubble.
If Pathfinder Society is anything to go by, I think the semi-official answer is that they either need to find a new god to worship or talk to their GM about rebuilding the character into something that doesn't have the worship of a deity baked into their class chassis. Not particularly satisfying, but it's all I've seen on the matter. Presumably, a rebuild to a non-deity worshiping class could be flavored as gaining/retaining some sort of innate power from Gorum, such as a cleric/champion of Gorum being rebuilt as an exemplar or an battle mystery oracle (ignoring the mystery's known mechanical issues for the moment), but I don't think there's a "one-size-fits-all" solution to be had.
My physical copy of Battlecry! is still making its way to me and I haven't yet pulled the trigger on a subscription yet, so I'm working from second and third-hand information at best, but apparently it mentions an upcoming "Lost Omens: Hellfire Dispatches" book as a source for more in-depth story details about the Inner Sea War.
If Pathfinder Society is anything to go by, I think the semi-official answer is that they either need to find a new god to worship or talk to their GM about rebuilding the character into something that doesn't have the worship of a deity baked into their class chassis.
I wonder what ancestry is best for the Satyr?A (PF2e) satyr is a medium fey creature with a knack for magical songs, low-light vision, and a higher-than-average movement speed. Disregarding the fey bit for the moment, it wouldn't be unreasonable to model that using an elf, and seeing if you can get access to some of the fey-touched universal ancestry feats - Fey Influence and Fey Ascension both have appropriate faun-themed picks. As for class, fey sorceror or any bard are obvious picks, but I could also see satyrs as druids, or maybe even a barbarian (ligneous, elemental wood, or animal instinct seem most appropriate) In lieu of a proper "fey" versatile heritage, maybe you could use Nephilim to represent some supernatural influence/power - both Musetouched and Idyllkin seem like decent bases to use for a satyr, at least thematically.
A bit off theme for the Greco-Roman mythos, but I've had a character concept percolating for a while that is effectively a small fragment of the Norse god Odin incarnated into the body of a recently deceased mortal, travelling around under a number of (paper thin) aliases and doing classically heroic/godly deeds in an attempt to regain/strengthen their innate divine power, and more generally just seeking out knowledge and secrets in classic Odin fashion - in particular about how the death of prophecy at the dawn of the Age of Lost Omens might impact the prophecies of Ragnarok and whether they might somehow be averted. A human/kjosas nephilim mainly built as a spear-wielding exemplar and almost certainly picking up a spellcaster dedication - witch or bard, possibly runesmith depending on how the class turns out.
For what it's worth, Barnes & Noble seems to have leaked the upcoming remastered Dark Archive via its online storepage: Link
There are probably powers in Hell who wouldn't mind a change in leadership (like Erecura's whole deal is "she's up to something, but you won't find out until too late to do anything about it") but I would be surprised if any of them figure this is the right time to make their move. I've always been of two minds when it comes to the "why don't they just kill off/dethrone Asmodeus" argument. On the one hand, I've been brainstorming a massive "The Reckoning Part Deux: Game of Thrones IN HELL!" campaign/storyline for years over on the D&D side of things (I'm a long-time Planescape fan), so I can't simply reject the idea on principle. An infernal civil war, succession crisis, or even just a mere shakeup in the proverbial C-suite has the potential to create plenty of interesting stories that both shake up the status quo and have ramifications that reach far beyond the borders of Hell itself. On the other hand, as a massive Cheliax fan, taking Asmodeus out of the picture would kneecap House Thrune and push the Chelaxian regime to the brink of collapse, at a bare minimum. The last time Cheliax lost its patron god, they spent decades in civil war. The ascension of House Thrune gave them a new one and brought back some measure of stability. I don't see any realistic scenario where Cheliax can lose Asmodeus and not get immediately dogpiled by every faction, both internal and external, that desires the immediate downfall of House Thrune. The only outcomes that I see for a post-Thrune Cheliax are an attempted restoration of its pre-Thrune Chelaxian identity (Ravounel 2.0), becoming an Iomedae-worshiping crusader state (Mendev 2.0), throwing off monarchy and trying their hands at a republic (Andoran 2.0), becoming the beachhead for an infernal invasion of Golarion (Worldwound 2.0), or breaking up into multiple smaller states that are locked in constant conflict with each other and/or are absorbed into their neighboring nations. It would definitely break the status quo, but would inevitably, and perhaps irreversibly break my favorite part of the setting in the process. And now I'm recalling that Asmodeus did get dethroned in DnD 2.0, didn't he? By himself as a ploy to draw out the disloyal, but the shakeup played out the same at first. Hmm. There was a civil war in the Nine Hells known as the Reckoning of Hell, initially between the "fallen celestial" archdevils (Baalzebul, Moloch, Belial, and Zariel) and the "native devil" archdevils (Mephistopheles, Geryon, Mammon, and Dispater) that ultimately ended with everyone trying to gang up and overthrow Asmodeus, but Asmodeus won that handily, since he had both Geryon and the major pit fiend commanders of every archdevil's army in his back pocket. You're probably thinking of Mephistopheles, who was overthrown by a "Baron Molikroth" after the Reckoning (part of TSR's efforts to scrub any real world demon/devil references from the game over the whole Satanic Panic thing) but was later revealed to have actually been "Baron Molikroth" the entire time, having engineered a coup against himself to round up and purge his court of disloyal elements.
Remember that mortals tend to be full of themselves.Asmodeus is a god, so his perspective is the most important one. *Channeling Red of Overly Sarcastic Productions* "Hubris: It's okay when the gods do it." More realistically, it depends on what House Thrune has to offer. Asmodeus certainly wouldn't be willing to renegotiate the terms of the contract with House Thrune for "less" than what he gets out of it currently, but that's only if House Thrune is offering "less". If House Thrune can get their hands on something that Asmodeus values more than what he currently gets out of their contract, then they may have a viable bargaining position.
I mean, that's assuming Asmodeus wasn't using Moloch as a backchannel to leak the information to Szuriel in the first place. Whether Asmodeus actually wants House Thrune to default or simply wants to put some extra pressure on them, I think it's safe to assume the contract is set up in a way where Asmodeus benefits either way.
We know the fight for Isgeri independence is the focus of the Hellbreakers AP - the question is whether that's the focus of the Hellfire Crisis writ large or only the focus of "Phase I". If Hellbreakers ends with Isger no longer under Chelaxian control, what does the Phase II "sequel" AP focus on, if not a direct attempt to take down House Thrune itself? And what does Cheliax look like in that AP's wake? That's my concern.
Abby nationalizing the Hellknights pretty much puts a stop to that. She's making a firm statement that the Hellknight orders (to say nothing of Isger itself) belong to Cheliax and that if Andoran wants a fight, they're fighting with her directly. It's mentioned in one of the PaizoCon panels, which should be archived on Paizo's Twitch channel at the moment, though I imagine they'll make it to Youtube sooner or later. In the meantime, someone on Reddit did a live writeup: Link General idea is that Abrogail nationalizes the Hellknight orders in response to the Eagle Knights forcing the Order of the Rack out of Breachill. Not all of them submit to her authority - the Orders of the Torrent and Nail are called out as such specifically - but those that do are now official agents of the Chelaxian state, rather than their previous quasi-independent status.
Aren't the villains you're referring to from Zeta Gundam ultimately reveled to be a part of the Earth Federation? The same Earth Federation that the heroes fought for in the original series, just a handful of years after winning the One Year War? My familiarity with the Universal Century timeline is admittedly limited, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm mostly a Cosmic Era kid (along with a number of the other spinoffs), so let me frame this through a "Gundam SEED" lens since I know it significantly better. If you'll forgive a rough summary of the core conflict, for context: A 'Quick' and Dirty Summary of the Core Conflict in Gundam SEED:
That's the sort of conflict I'm looking for in a war story. You can have clear bad guys, you can have clear good guys, but I don't want the war itself to be structured around "those guys are bad, let's go beat them up about it." I want room for stories to be told from either side. So to bring it back to the Hellfire Crisis, from Cheliax's perspective it's a matter of sovereignty. They sent in the Hellknights because they had reason to believe that Isgeri rebels in Breachill were hiding warshards, and by all accounts, they were correct - it was mentioned in one of the PaizoCon panels that the Hellbreakers League does indeed have a warshard. Andoran sending in first an observer to assess the situation and/or get in touch with the Hellbreakers and then a contingent of Eagle Knights to drive out the Order of the Rack is Andoran saying that Cheliax does not have sovereignty here - Isger is/should be a free, sovereign nation unto itself that Cheliax has no power to police. All of that is fine so far - Hellbreakers is ostensibly about the fight for Isgeri independence, after all. What I'm saying is, make Andoran go farther - the full French Revolutionary mindset. They're starting with Isger/Cheliax due to proximity and shared regional history, but they've decided it's time to do away with monarchy as a governmental system all across the Inner Sea, at the point of a sword if necessary, and are ramping up revolutionary propaganda to that end. Now there's an angle beyond just beating up Cheliax for doing Cheliax things: Empire vs Republic. Liberty vs Security. Centralized Power Structures vs Decentralized Power Structures. Put simply, Order vs Chaos. The entire thesis of Cheliax is that it's a nation that traded freedom for security. People can legitimately hate House Thrune, while still thinking that the devil they know is better than the devil they don't, and that the Andoran army marching across the border expecting to be welcomed as liberators as they upend the government that has kept this nation comparatively stable for decades may be a threat to their livelihoods. And even other nations that have no love for Cheliax (namely Taldor) may be wary of Andoran seeding anti-monarchy ideals among their populace. I can't help but think you've missed the point of the Gundam franchise and most of the post World War One literary tradition in which it sits--it's not that the "bad guys" are justifiable, it's that modern great power war is unjustifiable. Because World War One especially but hardly uniquely among modern wars was a vast squandering of human life for the sake of a very few variously dynastic or imperial ambitions on every side. I'm very aware of Gundam's central thesis. In general, I very much agree with it. But we're not discussing the morality of a war in the real world. We're discussing how a fictional war is framed in-universe to create a compelling narrative. War is never justifiable, but that doesn't stop those who engage in it from crafting arguments attempting to justify their actions. All I'm looking for the Chelaxian side of the Hellfire Crisis to have a compelling argument to bring to the table beyond "We're the evil empire. Are you expecting us to NOT do evil empire things?"
By all accounts it was Andoran's intention to frame their actions in Isger as a proxy war, since the Eagle Knights are also a quasi-independent military order that aren't technically under Andoran's control, thus allowing Andoran to distance itself diplomatically. Abby nationalizing the Hellknights pretty much puts a stop to that. She's making a firm statement that the Hellknight orders (to say nothing of Isger itself) belong to Cheliax and that if Andoran wants a fight, they're fighting with her directly. How that plays diplomatically depends on a lot of factors that we don't know yet, I think. Hellknights slaughtering innocents while engaging in a policing action is bad, but Andoran invading to kick them out is a violation of Chelaxian sovereignty (at least in their eyes).
Not particularly surprised, but seriously, is playing a Chelaxian character who isn't actively fighting against House Thrune even supported anymore?It's supported in any AP that isn't about fighting House Thrune, I imagine. There are many adventures and APs that are fitting for a Chelaxian character to be present. If you instead mean "When will I be able to play a Chelaxian fighting on the side of House Thrune?" then I think you'll be waiting some time - they've stated that there aren't many writers interested in writing an AP that explicitly evil, and that players show substantially reduced interest in it as well, so it'll likely not happen in an AP for some time. Perhaps an Adventure might be more possible? Fair enough. I admit, I was being somewhat hyperbolic. But this whole thing was billed as being the start to a massive Inner Sea War, and when I think "war story", I think something along the lines of a Gundam series. A story where even the "bad guys" have a point and rationale behind their actions that reasonable people can get behind and which side is in the right is entirely a matter of perspective. Instead, by all accounts, it's seemingly been narrowed down to Cheliax vs. Andoran (over Isgeri independence, at least initially) and there is absolutely zero ambiguity over who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. I was hoping for "Gundam", instead we get "Star Wars". You are the heroic rebellion fighting for freedom. You're fighting against the tyranny of the evil empire. Stop thinking Darth Vader is kinda cool, you're supposed to fear/hate him. I've been a fan of Cheliax from my first forays into the setting back in 1e, when I joined up with a local PFS lodge. They needed a dedicated healer, I chose an oracle - I enjoy a bit of edge/moral ambiguity to my characters and was reading A Song of Ice and Fire at the time, and so I took some inspiration from Melisandre the Red Witch and gave my oracle the flames mystery. Learn a bit more about the setting, weave in some Planescape Blood War/Law vs. Chaos influences, and before long the character's a LN Asmodeus-worshiper from Cheliax that is a committed demon hunter. I played that character through retirement (13th level) and have watched 2e gradually strip away aspects of her characterization from basically day one. Can't be a neutral Asmodeus worshiper anymore. Demons aren't weak to Law damage anymore, just Good damage. Original 2e flame oracle made it so using any non-AoE targeted spell came with a flat failure chance once your curse got going because visual impairment was baked in - great for blasting, not so great for individual spot healing and hitting demons with dimensional anchor and banishment. Ironically, I'm among the few who actually likes the remastered oracle more. Come the remaster, and Law/Chaos has been stripped away entirely and the only thing that matters anymore is Holy/Unholy - not blaming Paizo for WotC's OGL nonsense, but they've still gone out of their way to make Holy sanctification and wielding cold iron basically the only ways to specialize in demon slaying now. Guess I should get used to spamming the Needle Darts cantrip. And now, it seriously feels as though Cheliax as it currently exists is on the verge of being written out of the setting. We have two upcoming APs tied to the Hellfire Crisis, with the first being centered on freeing Isger from Chelaxian influence. As to the second, I honestly don't know what else Cheliax has left to lose except House Thrune itself and/or its alliance with Hell, and either one of which would basically cripple Cheliax for years to come and functionally destroy one of my favorite parts of the setting. If this were a long running war game, Rahadoum claiming the Arch of Aroden would have serious long-term strategic ramifications while leaving Cheliax itself intact, but that doesn't feel "climactic" enough to be the central focus of an entire AP's narrative arc. Likewise, I can't see Andoran successfully fending off a Chelaxian invasion to be sufficient - maintaining status quo (sans Isger) isn't going to be enough. They're going to hit Cheliax hard and Cheliax is going to lose something significant, and again, I don't think that they really have all that much left they can lose without fundamentally changing into something different. On top of that, the bulk of my actual play experience has been in PFS and between not being able to worship Asmodeus (evil/unholy only, and now full-on restricted), not being able to have an imp familiar (boon-only as of PC2's release), and now having the Pathfinder Society itself take side in a war against the nation my character is still ostensibly loyal to, I have a hard time seeing how my character is even feasible anymore outside of a home game. So yes, I was being somewhat hyperbolic. But only somewhat.
With both the inciting incident of the Hellfire Crisis and a major related Adventure Path set in Isger (with a direct sequel to follow), I have to wonder if next year is an Old Cheliax year. Wouldn't be surprised. I believe they mentioned in the Hellfire Crisis panel Q&A that remastered Hellknight archetypes are not in Battlecry, but "stay tuned", so between that and Abrogail's push to nationalize the Hellknight orders under the Chelaxian state following the Battle of Breachill, I suspect that make either a LO: Old Cheliax, a LO: Hellknights, or both fairly likely. I guess the real question is, would an Old Cheliax book be the region as it exists currently or as it will exist following both Hellfire Crisis APs (and thus potentially post-Thrune)?
The Order of the Torrent is based up in Kintargo, so... To be sure. I never assumed everyone would just bend the knee - just wasn't sure if those that didn't would still be Hellknights in the end, or drop the name and either reorganize into something else or transition to more generic knightly orders and mercenary groups.
Watching the PaizoCon Keynote and Hellfire Crisis panels. Seems Abrogail's response to Eagle Knights kicking the Order of the Rack out of Breachill is to officially nationalize the Hellknight orders as agents of the Chelaxian state. Not sure how I feel about that... EDIT: They mention a bit later that some of the orders refuse to submit to the crown, so there are still some independent Hellknights out there. They specifically called out the Orders of the Torrent and Nail as such. EDIT II: "Hellfire Crisis Phase II" AP is essentially a direct sequel to Hellbreakers, so we're not getting anything from the Chelaxian perspective... Not particularly surprised, but seriously, is playing a Chelaxian character who isn't actively fighting against House Thrune even supported anymore?
Due respect, but you're not talking about "defeating" Cheliax. Cheliax has been defeated loads of times - you yourself were previously bemoaning about how it was mainly known for being menacing and taking Ls. What you're talking about is ending the Cheliax we've had for the entire lifetime of the Lost Omens setting and turning it into something else.
It genuinely feels unlikely that Cheliax is going to prevail here, since the Pathfinder Society is throwing its weight against Cheliax (what with Thrune closing the lodges in her country) and we know how much weight they carry in the metaplot.While Cheliax is one of the few that outright kicked them out, many nations would like the Pathfinder Society to be more careful, then there is the Aspis thing. The Pathfinder Society fought against agents of Tar-Baphon in the tie-ins for Tyrant's Grasp and is arguably why the heroes of that AP even had the opportunity to defeat him at all. None of that saved Lastwall or stopped the Whispering Tyrant's return to power in the Gravelands. Just because the PFS is throwing in on one side of the conflict doesn't mean that side is guaranteed to win - it's possible their contributions will be the difference between Cheliax securing a limited victory and utterly steamrolling over the other powers of the Inner Sea. On a more personal note, it does nonetheless continue a frustrating trend of discouraging any Chelaxian PFS character that isn't actively fighting against their homeland in some way. Even if I were able to find an active PFS group in my area and find a 2e build that works for her, my main PFS character is now squarely in the position where staying true to her character and established loyalties means I just flat out can't play her anymore.
It was the opposite of a pyrrhic victory. It revealed and caused the removal of a number of internal enemies, it turned its most troublesome province into a reluctant allied nation, it forced the Church of Asmodeus and House Thrune to stop playing quite so many games with each other, and it gave them a strong drive for real victories. To be sure, it was absolutely a win. But it was still an internal uprising, and House Thrune wants to look like its hegemony and infernal dealings are keeping Cheliax stable. Even though they are arguably in a better position now than they were before, the Glorious Reclamation and the secession of Ravounel make it look like they didn't have their own house in order. It makes them look weaker and more fragile than they actually are, and that plays into the perception of their role in the coming Inner Sea War. Cheliax marshalling for war should make people think "How are we going to stop them and what will we lose in the attempt?", not "Well, guess it's finally time to go put down Abby."
I'd be down for that.
Also was against a homegrown rebellion that managed to take and hold (however briefly) the old capital of Westcrown and occurred at roughly the same that Ravounel was engaging in their ultimately successful secession. Sure, it was a win, but Cheliax/House Thrune still walked away with one heck of a black eye.
I happen to like big, stable, evil, authoritarian Cheliax. All you're suggesting is explicitly blowing it up and reducing one of the big power players in the Inner Sea to a chaotic morass of squabbling factions and civil wars (again) that will inevitably be under the thumb of various neighboring powers for years to come. It's like taking a painstakingly crafted lego model, smashing it into its component pieces, and telling those of us that liked it to be satisfied with all the cool stuff that can be built with it now. If you want a menacing evil empire that keeps taking Ls to start doing more in the metaplot, let it get a W or two every once in a while - a Cheliax with some wind in its sails is FAR more interesting to me than torching the whole thing and hoping something compelling can rise out of its ashes.
As someone who finds the idea of a post-Thrune Cheliax to be way less interesting or narratively compelling than the "good" ol' devil empire we have currently, I'm not particularly thrilled with the idea of this war being framed entirely around toppling the current Chelaxian regime. If we're doing a war story, I want something in the vein of a Gundam series (sans mecha), where both sides legitimately have a point about the causes of the war and what is needed to end it that "good" characters can get behind even while recognizing the bad actors among their ranks and the atrocities committed in the name of their cause.
Aren't what "archdragons" supposed to be???If I recall, it's the non-OGL replacement for the term "great wyrm" - basically, the term referring to the oldest and most powerful of dragons. Misunderstanding on my part. Thought you were asking what archdragons are.
Huh... apparently, Lost Omens: Draconic Codex was leaked by a Barnes & Nobles page...This is linking to Monster Core 2 (Which is still VERY cool), but where's the link to the Draconic Codex? Or was the name and description shifted?
Because I'm predictable, let's get the obvious ones out of the way: Lost Omens: Old Cheliax (For whatever reason, I love Cheliax and want to see how it responds to the upcoming Hellfire Crisis and broader Inner Sea War)
Beyond that, I have a lot of disparate interests. I'd like to see something that brings the Beastbrood Rakshasa-spawn heritage up to date (I imagine as a stand-alone versatile heritage, a la Hungerseed, given that Rakshasa are spirits now rather than fiends, just like oni), along with more about how the post-remaster de-OGL-ification has impacted Rakshasa lore. Depending on how much Impossible Lands content is touched on in the book the "Impossible" playtest feeds into, it might fit there, but otherwise, might need to wait for a Lost Omens: Vudra. I'd also like some deeper insights into the current state of New Thassilon, so a Lost Omens: Saga Lands would be nice. And while I don't know where it would fit product-wise, I'd like to finally get a proper Synthesist Summoner option. Honestly, while I know they've stated it'd likely be a class archetype, I'd prefer if they figured out a way to work it into the base Summoner class so that playing the summoner and eidolon separate or merged can be a tactical choice, rather than something you're locked into from level 1.
So with this war, are we going to see Cheliax take more beatings and stop being a threat, or be utterly defeated and another big bad empire is removed from the board?I am afraid about the same thing to be honest. "Hellbreakers" sounds a lot like Cheliax will loose this. And removing the last "Big bad evil empire" might feel good while doing so in the story itself, but leaves a big hole afterwards narrative-wise. I believe "Hellbreakers" is also the name of an anti-Cheliax faction in Isger, so it may just be named that to signify that the group known as the Hellbreakers are a central focus of the AP.
It's admittedly been a while since I went through either in detail, but aside from relative proximity (both being set in different Varisian city-states) the only direct connection that comes to mind is the disease, Vorel's phage, and it's much more contagious variant blood veil. Obviously, spoilers for The Skinsaw Murders (RotRL Book 2) and Seven Days to the Grave (CotCT Book 2): Essentially, in the backstory for the second book of RotRL, the wizard Vorel Foxglove was interrupted at a key moment in a ritual to transform himself into a lich by his wife (who knew nothing about her husband's actions), causing the ritual to fail spectacularly and seemingly "killing" him with the backlash. However, instead of truly "dying", Vorel was instead transformed into a kind of vaguely-sentient disease, later named Vorel's phage, which swiftly killed his wife and children and has lingered in the mold and vermin in the depths of Foxglove Manor ever since, never really spreading beyond it's borders but inevitably dooming anyone who attempts to claim the property, particularly his various relatives.
Decades later, the manor's current owner/occupant Aldern Foxglove murders his new wife over an assumed affair with one of the workers helping to renovate the manor and falls under the sway of Magnimar's Skinsaw Cult in his attempts to cover it up. The cult, which has its own ties to the property (and to Vorel himself), was recently taken over by the lamia matriarch Xanesha, one of Karzoug's underlings, who doesn't really care about the cult itself and was merely using it for her own ends but definitely recognizes a business opportunity when she sees one, as the cult was also in contact with Red Mantis assassins who were looking for new and interesting diseases that might be useful in their line of work. So, as part of payment for their "help" in covering up Aldern's crimes, she tasks him with delving into the depths of the manor and returning with a number of disease samples to pass along to the Red Mantis, making a tidy profit for herself and definitely ensuring that Aldern was infected, leading to his gradual transformation into the psychotic ghast he becomes by the time the events of the book start in earnest. While Aldern Foxglove and the Skinsaw Cult are the primary antagonists for The Skinsaw Murders, that's pretty much as far as the disease subplot goes in RotRL. It picks up again in the second book of CotCT (Seven Days to the Grave), where the newly crowned Queen Ileosa of Korvosa hatches a scheme to purge her city of undesirables, namely Varisians and the poor, and tasks the Red Mantis, whom she was already in contact with due to their aid in her murder of her late husband, with engineering a plague. With the aid of an amoral Chelaxian doctor and the cult of Urgathoa, they develop their samples of Vorel's phage into a less immediately deadly, but far more contagious variant they name blood veil, which is then unleashed upon the city, forming the backbone of the plot for that book.
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