So this quote from GM Core seems to hint at the idea of being able to turn archaic items into 'modern tech items' and letting them loose the archaic trait, but it stops short of actually saying that. Is there a ruling (maybe in one of the paizo lives) that I missed?
Another question. I seem to recall (maybe it was mentioned in the Sept. 2025 livesteam) that you can pay to upgrade a pathfinder weapon to be a modern, tech item, and get rid of all the penalties (and let it upgrade using the starfinder system, instead of pathfinder's runes system.) But I can't find that in GM core. The closest I can find is this quote, which comes close to saying that, but doesn't explicitly say it:
Anyone know of a more clear ruling on this?
I haven't got a chance to play, but after a thorough readthrough, I have some thoughts. Mechanic:
Technomancer:
Soldier gets legendary class dc, and their entire thing is AoE.
I think a mechanic's Modify ability didn't get properly edited between play-test versions. So it says that you can mod an item, it lasts until the start of your next turn, and you can apply one of these mods. If you mod a second item, the mod on the first item falls off. Simple enough. But then the level 13 ability Enduring mods mentions "This mod doesn’t count against your limit." What Limit? And the level 18 feat again mentions counting against a 'limit' of mods? I think Enduring mod should just say "Choose one item you carry. During your daily preparations, you can enhance that item AS IF you had used one of your known mods on it. This lasts until your next daily preparations, and does not prevent you from further using your modify ability on other items."
Thanks, it was from the blogpost. I appreciate it!
Technically we don't know whether they're even one-handed by default but let's assume they are because that makes sense. I definitely think it's strange that solar weapons have no two-handed options. I don't know about d12 since it would be literally unable to stack with Shattering Impact as currently printed, but yeah, there should definitely be some way to live out the fantasy of wrangling the sun into shape with When manifesting your weapon, it appears in a free hand of your choice {. . .} So, I know it TECHNICALLY doesn't say its a one handed weapon, but the above wording is . . . fairly clear if not exact and precise.
Oh, uh, don't look up the Crossbolter, which is in the PDF right now.
Moving on to other things: I'm curious to see how the Erudite warrior fares. Single action, suppressed no roll seems strong, but then they can get rid of it with a single attack roll. Still, that's an attack against (presumably) your heaviest-armored guy and not some wizard in the back with no armor. Also, I'm always a sucker for the old warrior-poet or warrior-scholar archetype (as in character theme, not the mechanical archetype in the game) so I do want to try it out, especially since they don't seem to have gotten much attention. Also, it might be nice to have a commando Fighting Style. Just for those people who want to bust down doors with a semi-automatic rifle and not a big minigun or something. Not sure how it would work . . . maybe supress on a hit with a semi-auto rifle? Dunno how to work it out but I'm sure there's a way.
No, I get your point, I just disagree. I view it this way, the bulk of the soldier class is based around giving soldiers bonuses if they decide to area attack. That doesn't take away their ability to single-action strike like a fighter, or intimidate, or whatever. It's a bonus, the bonus of that class. If that class's bonus thing doesn't work in scenario A, they can fall back to doing the fighter thing and single-target attacking. And sure, they won't be as good as the fighter, but they have this bonus that applies in other situations. Your hangup seems to assume that a soldier HAS to be using an area-effect weapon instead of an auto weapon, or not having a non-AoE weapon when AoE isn't called for. And that's just a poor decision for the soldier. JUST LIKE if other classes made poor decisions for their classes. I wouldn't blame the investigator class if an investigator player chose to grab weapons that they couldn't use studied strike with, I'd blame that player. I wouldn't blame an archer for grabbing only a bow and ignoring melee combat. Mitigate the downsides of your own class. And there are other flexible things the soldier can do. At level 3 their con applies to intimidation, so they can demoralize really well, or an erudite warrior can recall knowledge with their free skill upgrades, or whatever. There's flexibility there. And yes, close combat soldiers can decide to do single-target strikes with their melee weapons and still suppress people if they want. We have a difference of opinion man. And that's fine. I just don't think the fighter is ad bad as everyone else says it is. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say.
So I'm glad we're on the same page. I just think we have some different thought processes is all. I get what you're saying, the soldier WANTS to be area attacking every round, and their core mechanics are based around that. Totally agree. But, you could kinda say the same about the rogue, how they want to be sneak attacking every round. Just like a rouge can choose to forgo their class abilities and not sneak attack every round (maybe getting out into the middle of a group of enemies to flank is a bad idea), the soldier can choose to forgo their class abilities if it isn't useful for them. Not every class ability has to be useful in every situation. The soldier having AoE attack class abilities doesn't take away their ability to strike normally. I get that it's not optimal, but it's hardly required. Isn't that kind of like saying that a spellcaster can't do two things and still cast their spells? Like, I get that, and it sucks, but that's what the game is all about right? Making tactical choices. And sometimes you are just in a bad place for a turn and have to spend your whole turn moving up to hit an enemy. And again, if you decide to put all your eggs in one basket with only an AoE damage weapon, that's kinda on you, right? Sure, let's talk about some incremental changes. Some lighter AoE damage weapons, or maybe make an underbarrel grenade launcher with less-expensive grenades, that's all fine. But a lot of people are saying that the soldier is hot garbage and can't be saved. I just wanted to point out that there is potential there. I agree it's a playtest, things should be tweaked. But the class chassis is solid IMO, and with a tweak here or they should do well. Even against a single target, save for half, plus free attack, plus attack at -5 is pretty strong. And because they are mostly a ranged class, they probably won't need to move as much, especially if they are an action hero. I just . . . I don't agree with your basic premise. That a soldier is terrible. It seems to be predicated on the assumption that they will choose an AoE damage weapons, and only ever use that weapon. And that's just . . . a bad build choice. It's like saying my melee fighter will never grab or use a ranged weapon. Or that a sorcerer will never grab a non-AoE spell. It's just . . . it makes some assumptions where I don't know if they are true. But we are veering into opinion territory, so I'll drop the issue. You have your thoughts and I have mine.
Several other pathfinder ancestries get the same ability, either through a heritage or feat. Conrasu, Automoton, Kashrishi, and Nagaji.There's a versatile heritage in Player Core 2 that lets you do a similar thing on any ancestry with a level 1 ancestry feat (but that's +3 with a Strength cap of +2). That one is actually problematic and might be eratta'd soon. That one is in the unarmored category, whereas the others (Vesk and the ones I mentioned) all key off of medium armor proficiency. It's similar, yes, but with some key differences. I don't want to start a big fight over it, but I will say it is just straight up mechanically the best option for monks as is. You are free to disagree. Back to the actual topic of this thread though. No yeah, I like abilities like this. Kinda wanna make a plated Vesk solarian that strides into combat with nothing bout a GI/kimono on and a life-support belt (Flight suit.)
Also. you . . . you do know that there is a chunk of the GM core devoted to how to build PC-style enemies right? And that Paizo has made many PC style enemies for their generic assassins/thieves/thugs in the past? In fact, an entire chunk of the game mastery guide was devoted to PC-style NPCs.
My big issue with the Soldier class so far is that it is too specialized as a base class. Pretty much every Soldier made will be an artillery piece on the battlefield, with a secondary with two-handed melee weapons. Not a single one of the base class abilities will work with, say, a standard laser rifle or dual-wielding boom pistols. Even the various specializations released in the playtest are all about aoe weapons. So . . . counter argument . . . so are a lot of classes. Fighter's 'big thing' is that they are good with one set of weapons. They don't even have a sublcass. Literally their only 'thing' is that they get a +2 to hit with one set of weapons past level 5, and they are considered one of the best classes. Operative's big 'thing' is that they can aim to deal extra damage. Only with ranged weapons. And they have subclasses that give them some extra things that mostly help with that, like ignoring the volley trait on guns, or not provoking reactive strike with guns. Soldiers also get subclasses that give them more abilities. Swashbucklers get their finishers that, unless they take certain feats, have to be done in melee. Magus gets to cast a spell an make a melee attack at the same time, and most would argue that's their only 'thing (all their other class abilities support that).' I could keep going on. If you want to diversify with soldiers you can. Anyone can pick up the whirling swipe feat to be able to AoE attack in melee. And yes, a chunk of their class chassis is devoted to their AoE attacks, but that doesn't mean all of it is. An armor storm soldier with burst of strength can do well with combat maneuvers. You can also help defend your party with feats like "You'll have to go through me!" and "Deflect Missile." Listen, if you want some more diverse soldier feats that's fine, but being a 'narrowly focused' class is hardly restricted to just the soldier.
I don't think hyperbolically presenting other playtesters giving critical feedback as bloodthirsty murderers is helpful, really. There's a way to give your own feedback without doing any of that. Do . . . do you really not think that there are people out there in social media who are so vitriolic that they wouldn't say things like that? Oh you sweet, sweet summer child. Now I haven't seen that level of vitriol on the Paizo boards true . . . but there are . . . darker places in the world. The Youtube comments section . . .
I'm seeing a lot of soldier hate. A lot of hate. A lot of 'this class is useless and terrible and anyone on the design team should be summarily executed' kind of hate. Here's how I see it. Take a soldier with a machine gun or a rotolaser. For their action, without moving, they can hit a bunch of people (against their legendary class DC, +3 from their aiming module, literally the highest DC possible in the game), then because of primary target, get a free shot against one guy at no penalty. Then for their third action they can shoot that guy again for a total of -5 MAP. So that's:
Let's reframe this. Lets make the conceit that an enemy will always save against your AoE attacks. They won't. Last week in my Season of Ghosts game, I had some players throw out some fireballs that the enemies could only save against on a die roll of 15+, but let's say that enemies always save for the sake of argument. And now, Let's say, instead, you had an inventor. They had a 3 action activity to automatically deal 1/2 weapon damage to an area, then shoot twice for a penalty of -0/-5. People would think that would be a pretty good ability. People seem to be zeroed in, laser focused on the idea that someone might actually save against their big AoE attack. Even if they do, that's still some damage. I can't tell you the number of times my swashbuckler has missed with their confident finisher, but still taken out an enemy because I did damage on a miss. And yes, a large chunk of the soldier is focused around their AoE attacks but that's not all they can do. Just like you sorcerer can't fireball every enemy, your soldier won't be going AoE crazy every fight. And, just so we are clear, you do NOT have to use the autofire weapon to do a soldier justice. There are line weapons and burst weapons. They don't get you that third shot, but if your party likes running in front of your machinegun, you can switch to something else. I haven't played one yet, but I've seen a fair share of let's plays and they seem like they are doing okay. And if they need to be brought up a bit, that's fine. Maybe increase their damage so that they do a bit more damage on a miss, I'd be fine with that. But let's give them a chance instead of "I've heard they were bad, therefore me and my group won't even try them and I'm going to complain about them online."
Just so we are clear, you are saying that blaster casters are completely useless (impotent) against 69% of all enemies in the game? Because Fireball/lighting bolt/cone of cold (etc) also goes against reflex saves and doesn't get the bonuses of targeting module to DCs? Good to know. Dunno how my two primal casters who spam fireball in the season of ghosts game I am currently running are doing so well then. Man, doing 1/2 damage to the entire enemy party unless they beat the DC+10 must mean no damage at all. Couple of things. Yes, soldiers are weak against one strong enemy. I agree there could be more there. But also, when fighting say, 5 lower level enemies, they clean up. That's where they are good. Where, I might add, a fighter does poorly because they have to move in between each one and attack them one at a time. Also, and I just got done talking to someone else about this you seem to be falling into the trap of saying 'my character has to be 100% effective 100% of the time, or they are useless." If my swashbuckler (I have one) finds themselves in a situation where they aren't as useful, they do other things. Provide flanking. Demoralize. Make attacks even though my damage is reduced by 4. Use Leading dance to get enemies away from the squishy casters. Also, if attacking someone three times (save, primary target, follow up third attack at -5 with a ) is bad, then . . . I mean, I don't know what to say. That's pretty good in my book. Is it going to be able to beat, say, the fighter? No. But then the fighter can's spray a cone 40 ft long, 40 ft wide, and still follow up with two attacks every round. (Machine Gun). That's why the two are different classes. Yeah, if you want to talk about maybe boosting the efficacy, that's fine, have that discussion. But doing guaranteed (well, unless they crit save which, even on high saves, is likely only to occur on a die roll of, like 16+) damage every round with no daily resource cost at a range of up to 40 feet if you are an action hero isn't a bad starting point in my book.
Because melee operatives exist, as do melee soldiers and heck, even melee envoys? Should we give them all level 1 fly speeds? Just make sure you have a gun. Even in pathfinder, all my characters, even those with +0 dex, have a ranged option just in case. Even if they don’t have a great to hit, it’s better than nothing.
So, I'm just going to break down your argument point by point. Most likely because aoe weapons are not spells, but have to contend with the same brutal defense scaling regardless. And are only able to target a single save to boot. So they are not spells, they have to contend with the same 'brutal defense scaling' regardless. As I pointed out, a solarion or envoy with a gun has a higher DC than a spellcaster under this system, further dunking on spellcasters. And I stand by my statement. Most importantly, as I said, with spells you can actually target saves other than Reflex. This typically means a -3 or even something like -6 if you are good or just lucky. So in practice, it is only reflex save spells that are at a disadvantage. For all others, the opposite is the case as long as Reflex isn't the lowest save. I've always hated this arguement. Not all traditions have good spells against all saves, even if they did, not every SPELLCASTER will have good spells against every save memorized/as a spell they know. AND EVEN IF THEY DID, it's not like you automatically know the saves of each enemy. Quick, a demon who is built like a freight train is moving impossibly fast towards you and seems completely implacable. Your cleric friend hasn't gone yet so they can't recall knowledge. Which save do you choose?
And to counter that, you can fire off area effect attacks all day long as long as you have some cheap batteries, which cost nothing at higher levels. Meanwhile your witchwarper will have, what, 3 or 4 high level spells? Some of which may be reserved for utility instead of fireballs?
I think the fix here is two fold: 1) Let's not assume every fight ever takes place in a salt plain with no features and no ceiling. Often you'll be fighting in crampt starship corridors, or with buildings around. If bubbles the Barathu flies 100 feet up and starts taking pot shots with a sniper rifle, 9 times out of 10, a solarian can run into a building until bubbles cools down. 2) I think the easy buff here is to just make solar flare have a longer range. Maybe give it the brutal trait (use strength to hit) or turn it into a class DC thing.
So, I'm not going to be a jerk or anything, but I'll just leave Paizo's official word from the first (non-table of contents) page of their playtest here for your perusal.
I think Paizo has done a good job buffing ranged attacks already. Soldier can hit everyone in a cone, then then one person 2 more times, with a total of save, then -5/-5 to hit. That's a lot of bullets. Operative's aim does up to +4d4 damage with two shots a round (3 if hasted) with legendary accuracy so . . . crits likely to happen. And all of that stacks with the envoy who can get 'em, which scales up damage as they level. Again, imagine you, as a primal mystic, decide to cast a fireball on the first round of combat, and get shot 4 times in the face by snipers who are 100 feet away, who all have hair trigger, one of them crits, downs you, and you loose your spell anyway.
So . . . Hair trigger. Ranged opportunity attack at a range of up to 120 feet. Is it broken? I want to hear your thoughts. I think it is. And if you don't, I want you to picture a scenario. Let's say your party of level 5 Starfinders gets into a fight with four randos. By some miricle, your mystic goes first. They decided to cast a spell to fireball them. They all shoot you from 100 feet away for (checks average damage) 2d6+5 damage each with high accuracy. That's 8d6+20 damage, with a high chance for one of them to crit you disrupting your spell. Remember, if it is a feat a class can get, then it is fair game for NPCs to get it too. There are plenty of examples of enemy NPCs having abilities that correspond to player feats. Actually? Y'know what, you don't have to imagine that. Paizo already put that monster out. Have you fought against them? I know me and my group hated it. Try to run away? Get shot. Try to get up into melee? Get shot. Try to shoot them? Get shot. Try to DRAW YOUR WEAPON? Get shot. And those guys had guns that had to be reloaded after every shot and only had a range of 30 feet. Now imagine a range of 60 feet, and they only have to reload after every 5 shots. Also, it's just a normal operative feat, so, assuming the operative multiclass follows the standard guideline ANYONE can get this ability at level 5 if they have a dex of +2 or better. Not only is this busted, it's going to bog down combat. Just imagine EVERYONE shooting EVERY time this happens. Turn starts. Enemy operative tries to move. You shot him? He shoots you back. He shot you back? Your friend decides to shoot him. I'm trying to police myself. I don't want to just have a knee-jerk reaction to an ability . . . but this one is pretty hard to justify. I just . . . I love this game, but paizo, if you want some feedback, I don't see this feat ending well for you.
Or you state that a single UPB can make ten of whatever the thing that costs 1cp is. A single UPB could be crafted into ten candles, for example. Likewise you could have other costs cascade off from that fact, like a single credit being enough to purchase ten poor quality meals, etc. That’s how I’d do ammunition. One credit buys 10 bullets/playing cards (I really want to use the cardslinger!). Might make it more enticing to make a bullet character because, as it is, why would you ever do that when a battery can be recharged but bullets can’t?
So . . . I haven't seen anyone talking about this, so I thought I would. First of all, I LOVE the flavor of the weapons. In particular the card slinger is hilarious, and I want to use one. I know this is going to sound like a laundry list of things I don't like, but I do really appreciate the time and effort that goes into this playtest. People don't know how long and difficult it can be to write something, but I do, and I want to thank Paizo. But, and here's the thing, I think some weapons need to be rebalanced. They seem all out of wack. Let's take the Puzzle blade as our base. D8 damage, simple weapons, like the Longspear but instead of reach it has breakdown. Great, fine. I'd argue reach is a little better than breakdown, but it's fine. Now compare it to the hammer. Hammer is a martial weapons, but can essentially be made simple with the crafting skill. And it has shove, which isn't a great weapon trait. And because it requires two hands, it's just worse than a warhammer, OR the Longsper which (even though they are archaic) should still be available in the setting. Several deities have archaic weapons as their favored weapon. And some weapons are at the other end of the spectrum. The bone scepter? D10 light martial weapon that bypasses B/P/S resistance by dealing cold or void? (Side note, why is the bone scepter not archaic? It's LITERALLY an enchanted bone. It's not made with UPBs and should be able to accept magic runes.) Sure, the void damage doesn't work on undead or constructs, but the cold damage should still work on MOST of those creatures. The Dohshko is also kinda bad. I get it, it's a big, unweildy weapon. Sure, fine. But the only upside for it's unweildyness is the parry trait? Like, I get it, Parry trait is great, I love it, but you can't make reactive strikes with it or attack more than 1/round. I'd maybe give it Deadly d6 just to add some more oomph. Make it really tempting for that big hit, y'know? As it stands, its just a worse greataxe with the parry trait (and a greataxe should still be available.) I'd maybe get rid of the agile trait on the Card slinger and up the damage to d6. As it stands it's kinda worse than the Semi-Auto pistol. Does a d4 instead of a d6, shorter range. Sure it has the breakdown trait, and deadly d6, but that d4 damage really hurts it. Really, the only class that could make use of it is the Operative, and they can't! It's an advanced weapons, so it caps out it's proficiency at your 'simple' weapon proficiency (not, 'simple with guns.') Plus, like having 1/3 the range of the semi-auto pistol is not great, AND it can be hacked. Also, can we get some more support for the Striker? I'm not asking much, just the equivalent of a short sword so that in melee combat they can do a d6 damage? Maybe the Orc Knuckle-dagger? Also also, can we get an upgrade or something that increases magazine size? Like, you can buy better batteries as you level up, giving you more shots with powered weapons. Can we get something that increases non-battery magazine size? That was a thing that just happened in the soldier field test. But now, a level 20 operative using an energy pistol has a ton of shots, but one using a Paragon Semi-auto pistol still only has 5?
But would it really be too good not to take? Again, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would be so OP if it didn't have the swap hands penalty. Additionally, off the top of my head: *Thaumaturge with all implements active & a weapon in hand.*A bunch of feats require a free hand (like the New Dirty Trick in Player Core 2) while still using a 2 handed weapon. *Having a staff, a rifle, and two free hands for the Slashing Gust Spell * Having a Staff of Healing, a good weapon, and a sheild out for shield blocking and still healing. *Holding a Unweildy weapon (can't use more than 1/round, can't use reactions with it) for your first, main hit, then using a slightly less good, non unweildy weapon (like the cryopike) for subsequent/reactive hits.
I mean, this sounds situational. The same thing could happen in Starfinder with enemies with longbows. Valeros would do even worse in that situation. I mean, I get that the ‘Meta’ of Starfinder is more ranged focused, but still that sounds like an extreme situation.
I really hope this, or something like it, becomes a premade kit in the full release; this was a problem I had with SF1E, as well. Hunting and pecking for all your little doodads and whatsits for a new character was frustrating. That's why I made this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10N1cPc-FftcnQOqSjSYNn3JfirfX5Vxk68UHF1I RQYU/edit?usp=sharing
Suppressed started off as -5 speed, and then, during the field test, they upped it to -10. It should be -10 now, they probably just missed one instance of it being written down.
So, Base Starfinder doesn't have an Adventurer's pack, so I've put one together (camping kit is OKAY, but it doesn't contain everything and not everyone needs a tent). I used the statistics from the playtest where possible, but had to resort to Pathfinder prices when there wasn't an equivalent in the playtest (marked). Container (as backpack) 1 credit
Total: 20 Credits: 1Bulk and 7 Light
Also, just want to point out that the party has determined that Cao Shen has real "Tenured professor energy." They have also coined the term 'spirit-splaining,' for all the spiritualists who kept telling spirits how they should spirit. There were a lot of jokes that were basically: "I know you're a ghost, but let me, a mortal human, tell you how to ghost."
So my group just skipped the ENTIRE Battlements/dungeon of book 3. I'm trying to adjudicate this as a GM, doing the best I can, but my party keeps driving so hard off the rails I think they've gone to space. So I explained the complex/battlements/dungeon thing. The place with Cao Shen and everyone. They see it. I explain that there are townspeople going to and fro. The witch uses her flying talking familiar to scout it out from the air, I give her some info. I say that it's crawling with troops so a frontal assault is probably not a good idea. They decide that they don't want to go in. They start doing explosive fumes+fireball on the outer gates, and I do the math and they bust a couple of them open. The archers shoot them, but after 12 seconds they retreat and heal up and rinse and repeat. And they keep shouting "All we wanna do is talk to your leader!" Eventually I figure the group is going to send some exorcists out in front of the battlements to prevent all the fireballs, and the party fights a group of 2 exorcists and 2 shrine maidens. They beat them (the sorcerer went down, but the kineticist healed her), and the party manages to save and heal all but one of the combatants and basically say "We aren't spirits, see we healed you. Sorry about your friend, go let us talk to your leader." So I mean, Cao Shen IS willing to talk to them (they got him up to 4 influence points in the seance) so he comes out with all of the mercenaries, the shrine maidens, and the remaining exorcists, and they shout over a large gap of 30 feet while all the mercs are ready to shoot the PCs because they still think they are ghosts. There is an intense conversation, and they convince Cao Shen to bring out the head lumberjack man. And I mean, in the book, Cao Shen is willing to let them talk to his boss, so getting his boss to come out and talk under heavy guard isn't the most ridiculous thing in the world to me. And they convince him to give them the bell clacker and leave, and he gives them the warning. I mean, at one part I (out of character) TOLD the party that if they did what they did that they would skip this massive dungeon, and they all kept doing it. So, not sure what I could have done. But they skipped a huge chunk of money and XP so . . . not sure what to do now. I mean, they did it super humanely. Only like, ONE person died . . . they were even super nice to the villagers. (The very nice witch managed to, through many kind words and diplomacy checks, calm the villagers down and get information from them.) So I don't want to punish them for a creative solution but at the same time, they skipped an entire chapter of the book. Kinda at a loss of what to do.
I obviously don't know, but it sounds like good news. I think what is likely is that alchemists are getting some sort of buff that is not directly master proficiency in weapons, but it adds up to master proficiency. Like maybe a +1, and then eventually +2 bonus to hit with bombs or something. And the stream did say that they heard the fans about wanting to make a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde character, so maybe there will be a feat for a mutagenist that gets them there. I dunno. So far, all the remastered classes seem to have tried to bring characters up to the level of rogue, who is widely regarded (in my group at least) to be the 'alpaha best class,' so I wouldn't call it so much of power creep as trying to get everyone to that same level. Thanks everyone who looked into it, and thank you to the guy who found that post from James Case. Looking forward to August 1st.
Ran a couple of combats, two combats at level 5, and two at level 10. The rest of the party were normal (already released) classes. Here are a few things we noticed: The Good: 1) The guardian did their job. Never went down (got close, but the cleric healed me). High AC, high fort save, took damage for the wizard. 2) Damage resistance was almost always on. That, plus tough cookie (at level 10) meant I ended up with an effective 215 HP at one point. (Got down to half damage, tough cookie, got healed to near full.) 3) Hampering sweeps is stupid good. 4) Taunt seemed to work as intended . . . if the intent was the enemy ignored the taunt and continued to attack the wizard or whatever, but with a penalty. The bad: 1) Subclass was useless. In all four fights, it never got used. The offense was so bad that I couldn't hit someone to do the extra damage, and my AC was so high that I didn't get crit. The only time I ever took critical damage was when I was taking it for someone else who was crit, which is not ME being crit, so mitigate harm didn't trigger. 2)So little offense. The poor offense past level 4 is not good. I only hit when attacking orcs that were 3 levels below me. And when I did hit, I did just piddly damage, which means there was not really a reason for the monsters to attack me, even with taunt. 3)Hampering sweeps is super good. At one point I just jammed up 4 enemies who couldn't run away. The GM had to reposition me and wasted a lot of actions before he finally succeeded, in order to get near my allies. 4)The Guardian has only 2 good feats per level. Things like Hampering Sweeps, and shielded taunt, Intercept Energy and shielded attrition. Mobile protection. Group taunt and quick intercept, those are so good that there isn't even a question. Not really a reason to consider anything else. They are so good that they may as well be class features. 5) Action Economy starved. I often found myself not attacking. Hampering Sweeps+Raise Shield+taunt. And no, I didn't take Shielding taunt because . . . . Hampering sweeps. Things to consider:
Intercept strike is worded unclearly. As written, if you intercept a strike with, say, a hell hound, you intercept the physical damage, but not the energy damage? Actually, intercept energy and the trigger for intercept strike still hamstring you on stuff. We fought a shadow and my guardian was useless as it did void damage, so . . . that's not fun. So yeah, problematic. There's definitely something there, but I'd say there's a lot of work to be done. It is certainly better than I thought it would be.
Something to consider is that taunt increases the DC for all saves. And some saves have bonkers high DCs and don't do damage. Let's consider a young mirage dragon, Hallucination breath, DC 27. Creature level 9, so let's assume our party is fighting it at level 7 . . . decent fight. Our guardian has expert in will saves, let's assume a decent wisdom score of +2, and that we don't have a resistance rune yet. That's 7(level)+4(master)+2(will)=13 vs. DC, 27, you need a 14 or better on the die to succeed. But then you taunt, and the dragon breaths on the whole party. You have done nothing to save the party, and have to roll a 16 or better on the die to not be confused. Also, if you roll a 6 or less on the die, you are confused for 1 minute so you are basically out of the fight while the dragon ignores you and eats your wizard because, remember, even if you roll and randomly end up attacking the dragon, you aren't able to use your taunt or intercept strike or anything. And your attacks are pretty bad because you don't have weapon specialization yet.
Found the stream, it is the lunar new year stream: Lunar New year stream set to time they talk about the Hunger seed Thanks Sibelius Eos Owm for setting me on the right path.
First of all: Thank you for responding to my post, I really appreciate it. But . . . and I KNOW you are the creative director, are you sure? Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see the 'can take place in one event up to 4 times' anywhere in the book. Page 15 states clearly 'During this time, the PCs can take part once in the three traditional contests," not "Can try a maximum of one contest up to four times." Additionally, the festival lasts six hours (page 15), and each of the three contests takes a different amount of time. The lantern contest takes 2 hours, so, theoretically, a player could only attempt it 3 times, whereas the cloud-gazing poetry game takes only 1 hour. And the bundle cutting game takes even less time. (This is all explained in the First Long Night section starting on page 61) I don't mean to be rude sir, I have immense respect for you, but I know that I get my wires crossed all the time just when going through my day to day life. I just want to make sure that what you said was the intent of Joan Hong, the writer of the book, or maybe something got lost in communication? I mean, I can run it as you said, no problem, and if that is eratta, that's fine . . . it's just not what the books says. Just wondering if something got lost in the shuffle.
So, looking it over, as written, it is impossible for the PCs to win any of these contests for the First Long Night. For a PC to win, a single PC must accrue 4 victory points per activity. (Let the leaves fall, page 16). 6 VP for an overwhelming victory. A critical success only grants 2 VP, a success only one. (GM core and game mastery guide) And each PC can only attempt each activity once (let the leaves fall, page 15, bottom of the page.) So. . . Am I missing something? How are players supposed to achieve 4, let alone 6 victory points?
What I did for my party. Spoiler: When the group met with Old Matsuki, he told them that he assumed Granny Hu had done the same, and (correctly) surmised that they were held up in the new trading house as that is the most secure building in northridge and away from the downtown where all the problems started. I also had him (or his kids, more accuratly) spy that the downtown was overrun by monsters before the fog got to thick.
Just make sure Old Matsuki gets a few licks in on Granny Hu as he's telling the PCs that they have to rescue Northridge, gotta start that rivalry up soon.
Okay, so I've come up with a small mini-system for how Shinzo works: I think it will add more flavor to the game, but I also realize it's a bit of extra work. It's there if you need it. 1) Shinzo has 12 'slots' for things he can offer. Slot 1 is always crafting materials for making stuff (copying spells into spellbooks, iron for blacksmithing,etc.) Determine an appropriate amount of GP he has in 'general crafting materials.' 2) Come up with items for him to offer. If the items are mundane items that are 'boring' (like healer's tools) than offer three per slot if the items are related. Otherwise 1 item per slot. 3) Try to pick a mix of practical, common stuff, and fun and exotic weapons and armor, but make sure they are usable by the party. Note 'usable' doesn't mean 'ideal.' If there is a thief rogue, maybe offer a Katar or Bow Staff instead of always having rapiers in stock. 4) If he has a ranged option on offer, he also has 50 pieces of amunition for that ranged option. This ammunition doesn't take up a 'slot.' 5) Slots 11 and 12 may contain items that are one level above the party level, at your discression. 6) If the party requests items from Shinzo, these requests replace the slots he has, starting with slot 12 and working their way down. (So if the party requests two items, they replace slots 12 and 11.) 7) If the party requests related mundane items, they are three to a slot, just like above. So if the party requests a normal dancer's spear, Katana, and Sansetsukan, that would take up one 'slot.' Requests for magical items are 1 slot per item. 8) You may extend the '3 items per slot' rule to magical items that are variable. Maybe a Diplomat's Badge, Aereal Cloak, and Dancer's scarf could, at your discression, be one slot. Here's an example for when Shinzo meets the party when they are level 3: 1)150 GP worth of magical reagents for scribing scrolls/making magic runes, etc.
If the players make a request of him, that request replaces slot 12. If they make two requests, that replaces slots 11 &12, so on and so forth.
The truth seems the best way to go here. The book mentions that he legitimately does not know why he can enter and leave the mindscape. Have him tell the party “I’m sorry, I don’t know what’s going on. I was exploring trade routes and I showed up here, looks like you guys could use some help, I’ll see what I can do.” You can even have him reframe what’s going on without spilling the beans. “Look, I’m a devotee of Pharasma, maybe it’s her will you have this lifeline to the outside world. Maybe it’s her will that everyone in this town doesn’t die.”
|
