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25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:
samurai are too broad to be archetype
I don't really follow how "Samurai" is too broad for an archetype when things like Bounty Hunter, Scout, Pirate, and Vigilante are archetypes all of which are things I would consider broader than "Samurai".

samurai start as manager for estate of capital bureaucrat

some continue to be bugyo until the end of samurai
{. . .}
it is not a actual job

Now I've got this vision of some poor Samurai-wannabe stuck in in an utterly awful employment trap in a real estate office . . . .

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keftiu wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Wouldn't the devils in this story be a retcon? I thought the colonial masters of Sargava rebelled against Cheliax during the same civil war when the Thrune diabolists took over. That would suggest that, as nasty as they otherwise were, they most likely were not in league with devils.
Sargava had a Hellknight presence aligned with the colonial regime.

. . . And now that the colonial regime has been overthrown, Cheliax itself probably made a deal to the remnants that they couldn't refuse.

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In the original blog post, Kendra Leigh Speedling wrote:

{. . .} the cooperative waffles have apparently been making a splash, so I'll tell you I gave them that form to celebrate the return of the mithral waffle iron in PF2. I played a PF1 sorcerer who not only bought one, but liked it so much that he put one of his scant two skill ranks every level into Craft (waffle). And he always made the party breakfast.

{. . .}

Now that's dedication. No waffling in that commitment . . . .

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^Even so, Fighter archetypes that don't have their Weapon Training replacement count as Weapon Training or at least leave a subset of levels of Weapon Training are generally trash. A prime example of this is Archer, which is an archetype that was released early. The only exception that comes to mind is the Martial Master, whose replacement for Weapon Training doesn't count as Weapon Training but has enough of its own virtue to be worth considering.

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Just realized I had been leaving out a whole bunch of stuff I would like to see get the Unchained treatment: VMC for all of the classes that don't have it. The quality of VMC as it is turned out to be really uneven (and so needs a rework), but the idea was sound.

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One thing it does that would need smoothing out is give huge power jumps at certain levels, while others progress rather slowly.

Something in between this and the Pathfinder 1st Edition standard Fighter would be in order.

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^Sounds nice, but where should I be looking for Effortless Training (must be another Fighter Unchained addition)?

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^I guess that means that now it's an Undead Equine Ooze . . . .

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Arcaian wrote:
{. . .} You've got ring species, where two populations A and B that are geographically overlapping can interbreed, and then B is overlapping with C and can interbreed, and so on. If you take individuals from population F, they can't have fertile offspring with population A - but it is possible for their genetic material to get to population A if it just goes back through the ring, and at some point in there we do clearly need to call them a different species, but there's no clear-cut point. {. . .}

And here's your in-world example (although a short one) of a ring species.

Kasoh wrote:


Okay, in 2014 James Jacobs said that Elves and Orcs cannot crossbreed as they are incompatible biologically speaking.
{. . .}

Given the artwork we have seen of various Hobgoblins, in which some appear more human than others, I suspect that Hobgoblins and Humans can interbreed, but they just won't admit it.

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The Stamina system had some good ideas, but it seemed half-baked (in particular, many things running you out of Stamina very quickly).

Also, by a remarkable coincidence, What Classes Do You Wish Got The Unchained Treatment?.

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Dragon Nexus Games wrote:
Aotrscommander wrote:

I believe this video basically sums it up, really.

A Message From WotC About OGL*

*Curtesy of Going Rogue.

Thank you for the humor. Only when will Microsoft be as candid and honest when they give you the blue screen of death or when they are injecting your computer with problems through their engineered backdoor.

Microsoft candid or honest? I still remember their End User License Agreement from the late 1990s that wouldn't even let you run benchmarks on their products. I don't know if they still have that buried somewhere in their infernal contracts, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually still in there and I just missed it.

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^I would also expect the existence of a subset of food synthesizers that is expensive for high capacity but not for quality, to churn out fast food in places where the management doesn't want to pay fair wages or in dangerous neighborhoods (although in the latter case, considerable expenditure would be needed for security, so that miscreants don't steal or trash the food synthesizer). A subset of such dangerous neighborhoods would be prisons (for which the management probably wouldn't want to spend money on real cooks anyway, unless they thought they could get the prisoners themselves to do the work).

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Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
Unless you're a magus on a tight budget, the entire idea of a strength based duelist is kind of redundant and a waste of time isnt it?

A Magus on not such a tight budget will also often come out as a Strength-based one-hander -- you actually have to go to some really serious tradeoffs to be not a one-hander as a Magus (whether Strength-based or Dexterity-based).

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Manasaputras also survived from a previous multiverse (in some cases more than one).

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Also don't leave out the possibility that some pantheon gets stuck with some deity that the rest don't want, like a crazy relative that you really wish you could ban from the holiday table, but for whatever reason, it's not up to you . . . .

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For some reason I've been wanting to make an ORC Paladin (a mechanical chassis I made for this before this mysterious inspiration currently resides the second entry here). And I've also been (again before the latest mysterious inspiration) been thinking of an All-Paladin party. And the Eye of Dread is the perfect microregion for them to be based in -- after all, Tar-Baphon isn't just a quasi-divine Lich, he's a very powerful and very EeeeEEEeeeviiiL Wizard, although he has apparently managed to honk off some of the Dragons he wanted to dominate (who would have guessed?). So, here's another entry in my above list of thoughts to jot down for this thread:

For the Eye of Dread: The Beacon in Night: An All-Paladin party, including the Orc Paladin mentioned above and a Human (or maybe Half-Elf) Combat Medic (mechanical chassis currently resides just above at the same link). Also includes a Dwarf Tortured Crusader. Haven't yet decided on the 4th member (if any).

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Here's an ENworld blog post about the latest(?) WotC/Hasbro position. I think Princessmaker explained it best in comment #7: "It looks like the lawyers took extra care to separate what parts of the SRD would make them lose a court case against the "you can't copyright game mechanics" and they just closed the rest of the SRD."

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I still greatly prefer Pathfinder 1st Edition, so I'm still waiting to see what falls out for that (even if Paizo never makes anything more for it, somebody might do it, if only they won't be strangled by a horde of Hasbro lawyers).

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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
The day we get a full, labeled map is one where I truly lose my mind.
I second the motion.

Which one, getting a map, or losing your mind? Runs for the exit.

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12Seal wrote:

You aren't wrong. "Just business" is my way of complaining about the nature of a culture (that is to say, corporate and stonk culture) that prioritizes money over people, the planet, and even their own products. "Just business" is itself vile in my book; it's the supplantation of morality and ethics in favor of a Blue-and-Orange philosophy. Instead of Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos, it's alignment compass is Profit, Loss, Supply, Demand, respectively.

Any system like that will inevitably crush everything for the sake of the Dollar Almighty.

I was going to say their alignment system (to use your ordering) is:
    (•)Losers (Good);
    (•)Profiteers (Evil And Loving It);
    (•)Herdable Sheep(*) (Law)
    (•)Speculation (Chaos)

(*)Age of Empires IV reference. Covers both Supply and Demand.

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^Maybe really early Firebrands, from when the movement was just getting started? That could also end up with them having a legitimate reason to be noticeably out of step with the rest of the Firebrands.

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Captain Waystar wrote:
{. . .} tower-dwellers of the shoreline {. . .}

I am totally stealing this.

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^What about a group of Firebrands that was based in Sargava, but had to be away (maybe completely unexpectedly and involuntarily) during the time it became Vidrian, and now that they're about to return, they don't know what to expect?

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Now, Paizo MUST come out with an Iconic ORC Redeemer Champion . . . .

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Aban wrote:

To everyone at Paizo, you guys are amazing! Take this virtual hug.

___ ____ ___
____( \ .-' `-. / )____
(____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____)
(____ `-----( ) )-----' ____)
(____ __________ \ -____- / __________ ____)
(______/ \ `-.____.-' / \_____)
\ **HUG** /

EDIT: wow that did not format well, should've seen that coming

Weird -- if I reply, it looks okay until I submit.

But hey, eldritch entities from the Dark Tapestry have to hug too . . . .

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^That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if it fixes the problems with Strange Aeons (links to a PbP that just couldn't keep going because of them).

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They forgot a Background. Here's my shot at it:

Yearning for Freedom. You've been in chains, and after many cruelly foiled attempts to escape, were beginning to lose all hope. But one day your captors were alternately gawking at an Aiudara and each other instead of paying attention to you, and when the mysterious and apparently inactive gate suddenly flared, you took your chance to leap for freedom. The next thing you knew, you were once again standing next to an apparently inactive gate, and months of time were gone . . . but so were your chains, and your masters were nowhere to be seen. You quickly made yourself scarce to evade capture in case they return, and found that you have some inexplicable new powers and skills to help you do exactly that.

Your Deviant abilities are of the Wraith classification. You gain the Eerie Flicker deviant feat. As a quirk, whenever you use a deviant ability, both you and the environment around you seem to blur and almost run together momentarily, during which time you can seem to disappear like a vexing mosquito.

Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Dexterity or Wisdom, and one is a free ability boost.

You're trained in the Acrobatics skill and the Underworld Lore skill. You gain the Quick Squeeze skill feat.

Halfling is hereby added to the list of Appropriate Ancestries.

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^If your revenue is $1,500,000 and your expenses are $,250,000 (including paying federal and state and maybe even local taxes), you aren't going to be earning income under the OGL 1.1 -- you're going to be losing $50,000 each year (or $75,000 if you didn't sign onto their corrupt bargain with Kickstarter).

Meanwhile, WotC/Hasbro has the right to make any amount of income from what they so dishonestly say that you "own", and they don't owe anything to anybody except federal and state and maybe local governments (assuming that they can't figure out how to worm their way out of those obligations as so many big businesses do).

Also, note (in what purports to be the full document linked well above) that when you sign onto OGL 1.1, you waive your right to a jury trial.

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Martialmasters wrote:

{. . .}

TFW a company makes a change to force it's player base to better reflect the image of what the gaming table should look like to said company.

If you try to say this isn't what for saying I'm going likely not going to believe you. Because this is what all that amounts to. And I don't much like it

Are you trying to tell us Paizo is going to force their player base to exercise more and curtail their excessive pizza consumption?

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Given the elemental themes in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, I'm thinking of a Fantastic Four (although Sekh Madjed comes close) . . . .

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I wouldn't want to see all of the problematic things in Second Darkness just disappear without a trace. People don't quit being jerks overnight, so I would expect plenty of jerks still to be in Kyonin and places colonized by Kyonin -- they just don't have dominance any more, but you can be sure they would be regrouping and trying to stage a comeback. After all, this happens on Earth all the time.

As for the lack of beds in Crying Leaf, how about in the early stages of the conflict the Elves got pushed out so often, with everything they couldn't carry out getting trashed, that they resorted to just using the Golarion equivalent of sleeping bags, and then after they got better established, they kept up the habit. And then it just so happens that the couple of times when they decided they were well-enough established to start making beds again, they got pushed out and their stuff trashed again, and now they subconsciously think it's bad luck to make beds, even if they won't say so directly.

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. . . But as far as I know, both of these had not yet happened at the time of Mummy's Mask, when the archaeological lotteries were being held.

As for Andoren folks avoiding being just another set of foreign colonizers, it would be at least worth a shot for them to be fully transparent to the relevant authorities about what they are taking and where they're putting it(*), and at least give a general good plan for keeping the items safe.

(*)Would help to have an Andoran Geographic Society Museum brochure to hand out.

Of course, one of the wrinkles could be that this backfires . . . .

Nice to hear about the Pathfinder Society closing the door on Evil members, but what about all the ones that already entered the door? That might make cleaning up their act very difficult. Also, aren't the Pathfinders still under the control of the secretive and unaccountable Decemvirate? (This would be another motivating factor for the Andoran Geographic Society, which would prize openness as much as possible.) And the hunting down of Shadow Lodge members that refuse to rejoin sounds really suspicious -- especially with them somehow getting their former leader Grandmaster Torch to be in on it.

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keftiu wrote:

Jotting this down so I don't lose it: the Shory Seekers - or in their language, Chaosheng Kho, the Pilgrims of Kho - have come to the distant Inner Sea, seeking the knowledge of Garund's long-fallen Shory Empire.

Probably a Tian-Yae Kineticist aeromancer, some sort of sturdy Tian-La character, and the other two... are open questions for tomorrow's me.

Would love to help keep this thread going, if only I didn't keep getting slammed with new deadlines at work . . . .

Jotting down a couple of thoughts so I don't lose them seems like a good idea, although I have to tell you up front it's going to be a LOT longer before I can actually get to them (and even then it's a matter of If, not When). Note: Still thinking in 1st Edition terms here.

For Old Cheliax: The Banned That Played On: In Old Cheliax, art is much appreciated, but revolutionary art is banned. So I'm thinking of a performing Troupe, composed mainly (maybe even entirely) of Bards/Skalds, but nothing is set in stone yet. One possible non-Bard/Skald member is an Unfettered Devil Eidolon, freed by their Summoner's death at the hands of the State, followed by a botched Raise Dead ritual performed by the rest of the party, who is now trying to quit being a Devil.

Evil party for Old Cheliax: The Demagogues: If democracy proves to be easily enough corrupted, even House Thrune might end up having a use for it. This idea is also mostly in flux, but it MUST include a character that is REALLY DUMB, not the common Big Dumb Fighter/Barbarian type, but a political type (like Demogogue Bard into Noble Scion, maybe with a dip into Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger for the Mad Cowboy vibe), who somehow, inexplicably, gets people to go along with stupid ideas ever more the stupider they are (making heavy use of the Dopeler Effect). This group has disturbing parallels to modern Earth.

For the Saga Lands (central western): The Outsized, But Not Outclassed: Cheliax is just BAD for Halflings, and it's Hell to escape and stay escaped -- while the first choices for most would-be escapees would be Andoran or Nirmathas, they'll take Varisia if that's what they can get. An all-Halfling or almost-all-Halfling party, that has honed their abilities to fight against enemies who like to pick in people smaller than them.

For the Broken Lands (central -- specifically, the Stolen Lands): The Founders: A party of mostly martial types that are at home outdoors, including a Battle Herald. They come originally from different places, and will have ongoing debates about what form of government the new Stolen Lands nation should have, but they (at least mostly) won't be holding secrets from each other, but having their debates out in the open (at least, in those parts of the open where they don't think enemies will be watching).

For the Broken Lands (northeast): The Monstrous Liberators: Robot problem? Monster Solution! This is a group of monstrous characters who are trying to claw their way to Good. Includes Darien Usher-Tessadril (who I had wanted to be a PC for Wrath of the Righteous), a Qlippoth-Spawn Inquisitor who doesn't actually know who he is Inquisitor for who worries that his powers may actually stem from Rovagug, and Wreck-It Rafaela, an Annis-Spawn Rage Prophet (with the Wrecker Curse) who has a knack for breaking objects and other constructed things.

For the High Seas: The Liberty Privateers: What their name says -- technically a group of Shackles Pirates, but ones who have constrained their depredations to be against those who would deprive others of their freedom. They're trying to get a Letter of Marque from Andoran. Concepts mostly fluid, but includes an Oracle (with reskinned Dual Wasting/Haunted Curse) who is a Sylph that wasoriginally Human, acquiring Sylph nature shortly after birth due to a Varisian blessing gone horribly awry, who was exiled from Rahadoum not for casting divine magic, but for unbearable flatulence.

For the Golden Road and the Shining Kingdoms: The Andoran Geographic Society. Founded in Almas, Andoran as a competitor to the Pathfinder Society, by people who like the Pathfinder Society's goals of exploration but don't like its acceptance of Evil and otherwise amoral people or its plundering of treasures. Got its big break from its archaeological expedition in Wati, Osirion. Feeling vindicated after meeting a whole bunch of gung-ho Indiana Jones types almost immediately upon arriving. Includes an Archaeologist Bard who tries very hard to stay legally on good terms with the legal authorities there, who has a siblingn (Leadership Cohort) who arranges for safe transport of archaeological artifacts to Andoran.

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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Yeah, the setting's revolutionary republics have, shall we say, a mixed track record at being democratic republics.

Well, that shouldn't be a surprise. Earth's revolutionary republics don't have a very good track record of being democratic republics either.

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The Raven Black wrote:

{. . .}

Also it happened the other way around to Nissala's adherents when she became Evil.
{. . .}

I can't find a Nissala. Maybe you meant Lissala?

And going yet again the other way, Kazutal.

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". . . he'd rather grumble than actually be in charge of making any decisions" -- win.

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Morhek wrote:

{. . .}

Hopefully this updated version works.

It works now, even in Firefox.

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^That's what Fighter Weapon Training sort of is(*), and some weird archetypes of other classes get this too (unfortunately, not as many as get Armor Training).

(*)But unfortunately it doesn't count as Weapon Focus for feat prerequisites; on the other hand, it does stack with Weapon Focus.

The Martial Versatility and Martial Mastery feats (chain) do make feats like Weapon Focus work for whole weapon groups, but they are gated behind being Human and having Fighter levels (a lot of them in the latter case), although some other classes or archetypes thereof would also be able to access them, and they are pretty much feat taxes -- not for other feats, but as partial insurance in case you lose your golf bag. (The insurance does get better if Combat Stamina is in use in your campaign.)

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I'm seeing an explosive future for the Jalmeray/Murmur Dome group above. Probably sooner rather than later . . . and this one deserves a novel.

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Say hello to the Scyphozoans of Earth.

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Tried both Firefox and Safari. First link is different with the browsers -- in Firefox it gives me a blank page, and in Safari it wants to save a *.png.xml file, which when opened gives me the error message "AccessDeniedAccess denied.Anonymous caller does not have storage.objects.get access to the Google Cloud Storage object. Permission 'storage.objects.get' denied on resource (or it may not exist)." The message is apparently embedded in the XML file. The second link gives me a blank page in both, and if I save it it gives me a 0 byte file.

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^Fair enough, although if I was going to list North Korea in Golarion, I would have not listed it as Lawful Neutral.

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Morhek wrote:

Looking at Rob McCaleb's maps of Golarion, where Holomog would be there's a larger offshore island a bit to the south, close enough that being called “neighbouring” isn't much of an exaggeration, and it's slightly closer to the Kelesh mainland near Vudra. I would assume that's Tirakawhan, barring a statement by a Paizo employee or an appearance in canon material.

Edit: whoops, you already arrived at the same conclusion!

That first link I initially misread as "Rand McNally's maps of Golarion".

Second link just gives me a blank screen.

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I read in something on these boards that supposedly originally came from a developer that after a certain point they decided to quit offering Extra {Talent} feats because the Talents were often so much better than feats, but they didn't go back and remove the Extra {Talent} feats that already existed.

I think a better approach would have been to let you use the Extra {Talent} feat once, plus one extra time for every 10 levels beyond 1st.

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Morhek wrote:
Returning to the subject of things we'd like to see worked on or included in a theoretical Golden Road book, I think there's room to start introducing some more steampunk fantasy elements to at least part of the setting. Jistka was known for its construct-making, and I'm intrigued by the idea that really, what is a golem but a steam engine with legs? If you could put golems on wheels, what's stopping Rahadoum beating Numeria or Alkenstar to the punch by inventing the railway, at the very least replacing the horses of horse-drawn mine carts, and then working up to passenger lines across Rahadoum?
Here's what would be holding it up:
    1. Rust monsters (also a hazard for ironclad ships, since aquatic Rust Monsters have been reported)). Fortunately, some areas of Golarion seem not to have them, but it would be some saboteur could introduce a breeding pair.
    2. Desert -- not a good environment for a water-guzzling steam engine. It is possible to operate steam engines in a desert, but this requires expensive infrastructure, and condensers were technologically advanced enough (and bulky and expensive enough) that they never caught on in railways even on Earth.

Morhek wrote:
And once THAT is established, the only thing stopping a trans-oceanic railroad across Northern Garund is politics - {. . .}

Actually, finance is a problem (both private and when trying to get the government to do it). Steam engines entered commercial service on Earth in 1698, and some steam-powered land- and water- craft were built in the 1700s, but they were not commercially successful. When steam-hauled railroads finally did appear, they tended to be built first to move freight out of a mining area(*) and/or between points inland and a seaport, or in some cases between points on waterways to bypass impassable terrain -- this was where investors were initially willing to spend money. Railroads running parallel to a coast or a waterway came later, and some parts of Earth (notably large parts of Africa(**) and South and Central America) still have mainly railroads running out to a coast, when they have them at all. This is because movement of freight by boat tends to be preferred when it is practical -- this holds true to some extent even in modern time, but was much more the case back when land motive power was by animal or steam, both of which were highly inefficient, whereas sea movement could be by sail (even up into the early 20th Century), and even steamships got better efficiency due to the greater ratio of volume to surface area possible on a ship compared to land; meanwhile, for transport on canals, it was possible to get efficient (although extremely slow) operation by using animals (or later sometimes powered vehicles) to pull canal barges. Of course, with northern Garund being mainly desert or semi-desert, canals are going to be hard to implement except in local instances of large river deltas, so sailing in the Inner Sea will tend to dominate East-West movement of freight, although the Chelish control of transport through the Arch of Aroden/Hespereth Strait would provide an incentive for construction of a short land transport route to bypass this. Although Rahadoum may instead decide that since they managed to retake Khari while Cheliax was busy fighting off the Glorious Reclamation, they might have a decent chance to take the rest of Kharijite and then break the Chelish stranglehold on the strait (although unless they can challenge the Chelish Navy, just reconquering their lost land isn't going to be enough to do this).

(*)In this they followed after the pattern of wagonways, which apparently go back to 600 BC but became common in the 1500s, followed by plateways in the 1700s, using animal (or sometimes people) motive power. Wagonways should certainly exist on Golarion, and maybe even plateways in areas not infested with Rust Monsters. This technology would also be easily sufficient for streetcars drawn by animals (usually horses, but in northern Garund camels would be better), although on Earth, these came much later than technological development would have suggested (if you've got what it takes to build and run a wagonway, you've got what it takes to build and run a horsecar line, so presumably social inertia delayed this development on Earth and would probably delay it proportionately longer on Golarion).

(**)Modern Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, and South Africa have the most advanced rail networks in Africa, at least with regard to route layout. Unfortunately, Wikipedia doesn't seem to have a similar continental overview map for South and Central America, so you'll have to go to their Rail Transport by Country page and click on individual countries, and then keep in mind that some of them did modernize their route layouts after the early days (Argentina seems to be the champion), while others have remained more less as in the old days (or maybe added 1 or 2 approximately coast-parallel lines). and some have degenerated to fragmentary lines or even no railroads at all (thus, it is instructive to look at the 1920s maps when those are available).

. . . And now I'm once again wanting a Golarion Modern, with Golarion in general and Cheliax in particular in the equivalent of the 1920s, with Erinyes standing sentinel on severe Art Deco architecture, and canyons of skyscrapers seemingly designed to crush the souls out of those who dare not to bow to the all-seeing power of the State, while yet missing secret rebels who dart furtively through them like rats while dodging both Hellknight motorcades and suspiciously powerful and brazen gangsters. In the Golden Road region, this would instead have the nations of northern Garund trying to modernize while maintaining their sovereignty, with a worried look to their north and northwest as Cheliax finally figures out how to solve the Rust Monster problem for itself (while sending spies to plant Rust Monsters in their neighbors' territory) and masses a truly infernal navy . . . .

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Continuing with Traits and Equipment, but first, another feat section.

Add Item Creation Feats: Brew Potion: More expensive than scribing Scrolls, but on the other hand, the people you hand Potions to can use these themselves without needing a Use Magic Device roll. Potions like Delay Poison and Lesser Restoration could be lifesavers, as long as the user has a chance to withdraw momentarily to use them without getting smacked.

Add Item Creation Feats: Craft Magic Arms and Armor: How much you're going to need this varies -- most parties will probably use it a few times and be done, but if you need to make special ammunition or you need to outfit an army, this might be worth taking.

Add Item Creation Feats: Craft Wondrous Item: This lets you make the greatest number of useful items, including some consumables. For examples, see Candle of Invocation and Pearls of Power, below.

Add Item Creation Feats: Craft Wand: For spells that you are going to need frequently but that you don't need the caster level of casting them yourself. The combination of frequent use and lower per-charge cost makes up for the up-front cost relative to Potions or Scrolls. You'll be burning through a LOT of Cure Light Wounds (and/or Inflict Light Wounds if some of your allies have Negative Energy Affinity), and Lesser Restoration is frequently needed too; in certain campaigns, you might need Delay Poison enough to justify a Wand of this.

Add Item Creation Feats: Scribe Scroll: Since you have access to your entire spell list apart from spells you specifically aren't allowed to cast (usually because of alignment conflict), you can use this to build up a library of Scrolls for contingencies. This is especially good on an Ecclisitheurge Cleric, even though you also have Bonded Holy Symbol to help with contingencies -- you'll be better at this than any Wizard who isn't a Spell Sage. Of course, if you have somebody in your party who already has Scribe Scroll (for instance, a Wizard), you can use their Scribe Scroll instead.

Traits: Finding Your Kin (actually Finding Haleem: This is the Human Fast Learner feat (see above), except that you don't have to be Human. But it is also actually pre-Pathfinder (from the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path).

Traits: Cleansing Light: That isn't going to be much additional Channel damage to Undead -- if you deal 6d6 normally, this enables you to deal on the average 1 more point of damage, assuming you aren't fighting negatively loaded dice. Red (1/5), even if you are a Channel Monster -- save your Trait space for something that provides more help.

Traits: Wisdom in the Flesh: "Select any Strength-, Constitution-, or Dexterity-based skill", so you have quite a number of good choices. Acrobatics is indeed good (especially if you are using Torag's Divine Fighting Style and/or Guided Hand or Deadeye's Blessing to make up for bad Dexterity). Escape Artist is a decent pick if you are compensating for bad Strength. Fly is a decent pick if you are doing that a lot. Stealth is a decent pick if you need to do that a lot, or even just a moderate amount. Swim is a potentially life-saving pick if you are in a water (especially underwater) campaign, like Skull and Shackles (or especially Ruins of Azlant).

Equipment: Magic Weapon: Guided Weapon Enhancement: Note that this is pre-Pathfinder.

Equipment: Magic Weapon: Wizard's Hook: Of course, you have to lose a hand first . . . .

Equipment: Magic Weapon: Channeler's Aspergillum: Sounds nice until you see Price 36,305 gp.

Equipment: Domain Items: Icon of Aspects: . . . And it is only moderately expensive, and doesn't use an item slot!

Equipment: Domain Items (actually Magic Armor): The Forbidden Name: This is Studded Leather Armor (Light) -- if you can craft magic armor yourself, it would be worth seeing if you can make a Medium Armor version of it (or even Heavy Armor if you're proficient with that).

Equipment: Domain Items: Pyxes of Redirected Focus: Like Icon of Aspects, it doesn't use an item slot, so you can actually use both!

Equipment: Casting Items: Candle of Invocation: Eventually you want to create these yourself, if you can -- that gets the expense down to 4,200 gp. Fortunately, Create Wondrous Item is the most generally applicable Item Creation Feat, and fortunately, if you can't cast Gate, that just bumps up the crafting DC by 5.

Equipment: Casting Items: Pearls of Power: These are especially necessary if you rely on good Domain spells, since you only get 1 Domain slot per spell level no matter how many Domains you have.

Equipment: Casting Items: Add Varisian Idol (Avidais): If you need to remove some really nasty condition, 75 gp for +2 to your Dispel Check is a steal.

Equipment: Casting Items: Add Varisian Idol (Carnasia): If you can't get in Charm range of a target without threatening it, this fixes the problem of their being threatened giving them +5 to the Save.

Equipment: Summoning Items: Visage of the Bound: I don't see any restriction on using your bound Outsider's teleportation ability, just not its summoning abilities, so if your Outsider could teleport, now you can do it.

Equipment: Channel Energy Items: Gloves, Ghostvision: Warning: This makes you blind to creatures that aren't Undead! Orange (2/5) -- you can build to work around this problem, but it will take a LOT of investment.

Equipment: Channel Energy Items: Daylight Diadem: This is awfully expensive for what it does and considering how much of a pain it is to recharge if you are underground (you are going to have to cast Skyshroud every morning, assuming you can even figure out when morning is).

And . . . Finished! (Unless I get both inspiration and time to come up with some complete builds to offer up.)

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I notice that 2nd Edition Wadjet doesn't accept Lawful Neutral worshippers, so she probably isn't going to insist on unflinching law, and maybe she could be sympathetic to the Chaotic Good pantheon even if a bit borderline for being in it herself (maybe not officially in it, but providing enough support to actually provide Zeal support?).

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Bachuan? (Strangely, Pathfinderwiki now lists them as Lawful Neutral -- I could have sworn they used to be listed as Lawful Evil, although Grandmother Pei still is (but the Sun Chamber isn't).

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Before I continue with further reading, here's a further note about Humans, the Eldritch Heritage feat chain, and skills (it all ties together): If you look up Humans on Archive of Nethys ( doesn't have this), and then search for Powerful Presence, you will see that you can trade out the Human Bonus Feat to have your Charisma score considered as 2 points higher for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites, AND get Persuasive as a bonus feat. If you are going to be a face Cleric, this is a good way to go, and being treated as having Charisma 2 higher than for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites means you need Charisma only 11 instead of 13 to get Eldritch Heritage, and you need Charisma only 13 instead of 15 to get Improved Eldritch Heritage, and you need Charisma only 15 instead of 17 to get Greater Eldritch Heritage. If you also bump your Intelligence up to 14 and take Cunning, and DON'T trade out the Human Skilled trait, you could max Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), Perception, and Sense Motive even if you don't get to add skill ranks with a magic item. If you don't use the Human Favored Class Bonus (campaign with not many Outsiders), then you could also max Disguise or Spellcraft, or leave a skill columns for 1- and 2- pointers (either way, you might want to get Fast Learner to that you get both a hit point and a skill point per level in exchange for forgoing the Human Favored Class Bonus). Of course, if you are a Herald Caller, this gets even better, and you have more wiggle room.

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Okay, back from Thanksgiving dinner. Continuing now with Feats.

General Feats: War Blessing: Due to variation between Blessings, this is a mixed bag, and it almost deserves its own section or at least a link to a Warpriest guide, but as a sneak preview, if you are in underwater combat, on your successful Touch Attack, the Void Minor Blessing will completely hose a target that has to hold their breath, even if they pass their Fortitude Save (which only gets them off the hook from the Staggered condition). This is also true to a much lesser extent if you can arrange for a gas attack to which you are immune.

General Feats: Magic Trick: If you go VMC Wizard, at 11th level you get an arcane Cantrip, of which Mage Hand and Prestidigitation are usable with Magic Trick, and of which the Magic Trick options of Mage Hand are actually pretty good. The bad news is that you will be awfully short on feats. On the other hand, if instead of going VMC Wizard, you actually dipped Wizard, like for instance to become a Mystic Theurge, then you would be doing not too shabby on feats . . . .

General Feats: Flickering Step: One technical problem you will have with the feat is that you need at least 9 ranks of Knowledge (Planes), and skill ranks are hard for most Clerics to get. This doesn't mean anything wrong with the feat, just that it will be hard for you to afford it in your build.

General Feats: Knowledgeable Spellcaster: This one has a problem with the feat itself -- even if you somehow get enough ranks in each skill, it specifically says you have to take this feat once for each Knowledge skill you want to use it with!

General Feats: Add Cunning: More skill points = Good. Normally Green (3/5), but becomes Blue (4/5) if you are investing in feats or prestige classes that require skill ranks.

General Feats: Add Toughness: More hit points = Good, and the first 3 are front-loaded. Green (3/5).

General Feats: Add Fast Learner: If you are Human with Intelligence at least 13, you can take this to get both a skill point and a hit point for each level as your Favored Class Bonus, and then you can stack Cunning and/or Toughness on top of it. Green (3/5) if you aren't needing to cast spells on Outsiders.

Combat Feats: Divine Fighting Techique: Almost deserves a section of its own, but as a sneak preview, Desna's Shooting Star (especially if combined with the Startoss Style feat chain) is just brokenly overpowered, and Torag's Patient Strokes substitutes for Combat Reflexes if you are wielding a Warhammer, and eventually lets you use the Vital Strike feat chain on Attacks of Opportunity.

Combat Feats: Ironbound Master: This keys of your Cleric level and not anything else, so you had better be single-class or almost single-class.

Combat Feats: Channel Smite/Guided Hand: Channel Smite (see below) is just a feat tax for Guided Hand.

Combat Feats: Combat Stamina: Almost deserves a whole guide of its own.

Melee Combat Feats: Power Attack and Piranha Attack: Although the scaling is nice, as a 3/4 BAB character you do not get the full benefit of these feats, and are less able to afford the loss of accuracy than a full BAB character. They become better if you are two-handing your weapon, in which case you can negate the penalty on your first attack with Furious Focus. Now if only you could somehow get Blade Tutor's Spirit on your spell list . . . only way I can think of is be a Samsaran with Mystic Past Life to snag it from the Paladin or Antipaladin list.

Melee Combat Feats: Combat Reflexes: If your Dexterity isn't good enough for this, see Torag's Patient Strokes under Divine Fighting Technique above.

Ranged Combat Feats: Deadly Aim: See Power Attack and Piranha Attack above.

Metamagic Discount Feats: Sacred Geometry: Skill points are hard to come by for a Cleric, and making this feat good requires considerable investment in Knowledge (Engineering). Since it also requires Intelligence 13, if you are going to invest in it, you might as well go to Intelligence 14 to get another skill point per level. Also wanted to post the link to the Sacred Geometry Calculator in this thread.

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Dazing Spell: Actually, if your targets save, they are not Dazed, so it's only Green to Blue (3.5/5).

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Cherry Blossom Spell: This should work like Dazing Spell above, but they messed up the text so that the only way that targets can save against the rider effect is if the spell is No Save.

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Add Authoritative Spell (+2): This should work like Dazing Spell above, but they messed up in the opposite way from Cherry Blossom Spell, so that targets can't save against the rider effect if the spell is No Save.

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Add Tumultous Spell (+1): This should work like Dazing Spell above, but instead works like Authoritative Spell above, except that it has added text for spells that require an attack roll. Good for breaking up enemy formations, even if some of the targets save.

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Add Rime Spell (+1): This one does not seem to have had any attempt made to allow a Save at all -- if targets are damaged at all by the spell (even if they Save), they are Entangled.

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Add Apocalyptic Spell (+1): This one has a valid reason for not allowing a Save for the targets, because it is affecting the ground and space around them instead of directly affecting them. Makes Difficult Terrain, and even messes up space away from the ground (although apparently not underground, but what do you want for a Metamagic Feat whose level cost is only +1?).

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Add Trick Spell (+1, Calistria): Very thematic for the most devout Calistrians -- apply a Dirty Trick (amplified by any Dirty Trick feats you have) to a target that fails its Save against a single-target Enchantment spell.

Metamagic Rider Effect Feats: Add Brackish Spell (+0): This has a protective rider effect on you. The duration is very short, but on the other hand, it doesn't have a spell level cost.

Metamagic Spell Modifier and Rider Effect Feat Chain: Add Tenebrous Spell (Spell Modifier, +1 on most spells, +0 on Darkness, Shadow, or Illusion (Shadow) spells) --> Umbral Spell (Rider Effect, +2) --> Shadow Grasp (Rider Effect, +1) -- Entangle targets; unlike Rime Spell, they get a Save, but Shadow Grasp doesn't care whether they take damage from the spell. Note that you can't actually use Umbral Spell and Shadow Grasp on the same spell unless it both affects specific targets and an area; more likely, you'll use an Umbral Spell (which may be also Tenebrous, depending upon prevailing conditions) and a Tenebrous Shadow Grasp spell for a one-two punch. This feat chain eats an awful lot of feats, but if you're into darkness, this is thematic for you.

Metamagic Spell Modifer Feats: Heighten Spell: Except in a few odd cases (like interaction with Magic Trick), this is really a Defense Breaker.

Metamagic Spell Defense Breaker Feats: Persistent Spell: Typo -- "If your succeed your save, roll again to see if you fail!" should be "If targets succeed in their Save, roll again to see if they fail!".

Metamagic Spell Defense Breaker Feats: Piercing Spell: An alternative is the general feat Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration -- these do not increase spell level (or casting time, if for some reason you are casting a spell spontaneously). But if you really need to break through spell resistance, they stack with Piercing Spell and (when applicable) with the Human Favored Class Bonus.

Channel Energy Modifier Feats: Ability Focus -- since it says (Monster), I don't know if it is supposed to work with Clerics, but if it is, I wonder if it works with Domain Powers that work as special attacks?

Channel Energy Modifier Feats: Channel Ray: Seems like a semi-waste to convert your area Channel Energy to a single target blast with both a Save and a chance to miss, but it will eventually get you really long range.

Channel Energy Modifier Feats: Alignment Channel: The way this (and the similar Elemental Channel) are written is really weird -- each option of Alignment Channel gives you the choice of healing or harming one alignment, instead of healing one alignment or harming the opposite alignment. In most cases, you are never going to use one of these choices. Now, regular Channel Energy will heal most Outsiders, so if you Channel Positive Energy, this will be mostly moot, and regular Channel Negative Energy will hurt most Outsiders (even most Evil Outsiders), so again this will be mostly moot, but it's still weird -- Good Clerics will end up choosing Alignment Channel (Evil) to hurt Evil Outsiders, and Evil Clerics will end up choosing Alignment Channel (Evil) to heal Evil Outsiders, and almost nobody other than a subset of Neutral Clerics will have a use for Alignment Channel (Good).

Channel Energy Modifier Feats: Channel Smite: Red (1/5) -- the only reason you would want this feat that puts your Channel Energy on 1 target and wastes it if you miss (and even if you hit, they still get to Save) is as the feat tax for Guided Hand.

Channel Energy Modifier Feats: Add Reviving Channel: Sort of like Channeled Revival, but works on an ally who is KO'd but not dead, and first gets them up to 0 hit points before applying the Channel Energy healing, and it only uses 1 Channel Energy charge. It doesn't say anything about Channeling Positive Energy, so if you Channel Negative Energy and have a KO'd ally who has Negative Energy Affinity but is not destroyed at 0 hit points, it should work for them.

Channel Energy Rider Effect Feats: Channel Discord, Hellish Shackles, and Clarifying Channel: I would downrate all of these for being only once per day no matter how many uses of Channel Energy you have available. Fateful Channel, Beacon of Hope, and Shatter Resolve don't have that problem.

Channel Energy Alternate Use Feats: Channel Hate: This is known to work even in Earth's planetary Antimagic Field.

Channel Energy Alternate Use Feats: Channeled Revival: Unlike Breath of Life without Reach Spell, this works at the range of your Channel Energy.

Healing (actually Achievement) Feats: Healer's Touch: This is only going to work if you start out as a healbot, because when you damage other creatures, you reduce your progress towards getting this feat at double speed.

Healing (actually Achievement) Feats: Talmandor's Lifting: Getting this one is going to hurt -- you have to survive 10d6 falling damage 3 times.

Healing Feats: Glorious Heat: Pretty weak -- at 20th level, you will heal your designated ally only 10 points and give them a 1 round Bless restricted to attack rolls. Red (1/5).

Next up: Traits and Equipment.

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