UnArcaneElection's page

^Basically, you need enough science for the cinematic aspect to work. (That said, I would like to know what some spells and supernatural effects would look like cinematically -- the descriptions are rather spotty in that department.)

Even so, I would like to see atomic elementals . . . .

This is a hard question, because there's so many really good deities in Pathfinder. I think it's one of the best parts of the setting/worldbuilding.

If I had to pick just one it would be Sarenrae. I love sun gods and redemption gods so combining both into one package is a guaranteed win for me. Her backstory fighting Rovagug is also very badass.

I would give Sarenrae a favored spot on my list if only she actually did a good job of redeeming things. Both Shelyn and Desna seem to do better in that department -- not a huge number of examples, but at least they have done something. And then Sarenrae seems to have had a quite corrupt church up until 2nd Edition time.

There's a lot of honourary mentions as well. Caiden Cailen is such a cool concept as the "accidental god". Milani is a big one for me since I always love liberators of any kind. And ever since playing the Wrath of the Righteous CRPG I've been a big fan of Nocticula as well. And finally I have to mention Iomadae because I love Paladin gods.

Cayden Cailean is indeed an accidental god . . . and if he had been described as Chaotic Neutral, I'd be fine with that, but he's described as Chaotic Good, yet he promotes drunkenness (although reportedly only up to a point, but still).

Agreed on Milani and Nocticula (hey, she partly redeemed herself), and even Iomedae (she seems to have undergone some redemption of her own after Wrath of the Righteousness).

Sysryke wrote:

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

{. . .}

I guess i just got so used to killer DM's i build my character with the expectation that my DM is actively trying to kill me.

I haven't had the misfortune to have had one of those yet, but in my first few years of AD&D playing I was introduced to one (fortunately never met in person) via a primitive precursor of social media (yes, such things existed even in the late 1970s). That killer DM (a particularly vicious and capricious yet surprisingly popular DM who took joy in tearing up character sheets, and making the players start over with a new 1st level character(*)) was a university professor. I was going to say what they were a professor of, but first, anybody care to take a guess?

(*)I didn't think to ask about the highest level characters got to in that campaign, but for some reason the vicinity of level 8 or so sticks in my head.

Based on personal trauma, I would guess physics. But a twisted psychology or literature professor would also seem to fit here.

I myself used to be a professor of mathematics, and I can still send fear down people's spines with a math lecture. Bwahaha.

{. . .}

Psychology professor is the correct answer to the profession of the character sheet vorpalizer I was describing above.

Let's see, Reign of Winter, Rise of the Runelords, Skull and Shackles, that's three so far. Strange Aeons is likely to make it, but not for awhile.

For some reason I misread that last one as "Stooge Aeons", and now that's something I want to see . . . .

Blaster Caster: the Discerning Archmage's Guide to Small Ball

Any discussion thread for this?

Part of the effect of Guards and Wards also does this on an area; it only has a 50% chance of working, but is No Save (although Spell Resistance still applies). I did not find an equivalent in 2nd Edition.

I, for one, do not mind introducing science into fantasy as long as it isn't too complicated to use. After all, one of the Paizo developers (I think it was James Jacobs) said in an interview a few years ago that Golarion's planetary nature (including size, shape, and gravity) is based on science, because that was easiest to work with.

Here's my take on how Detect Poison should work (some parts of this do NOT match with Rules As Written):

[•]Detect Poison pings more strongly with more potent poison, assuming no measures to disguise the poison.
[•]A quantity of poison that is too small to have an effect usually won't show. If you pass a Craft (Alchemy) or Heal check while using the spell, you can not only identify the poison, but also detect the poisonous nature of a does that is too small, but you will know that it is too small.
[•]Something like alcoholic beverages that is normally consumed in non-poisonous doses that is present in sufficient quantity to be poisonous if all consumed detects as poisonous, but the diffuse nature of its toxicity is apparent. Think of it as being analogous to water with no other substances imparting color appearing faintly blue when present in great volume, but clear when in a small to medium container, unless you perform very sensitive detection of its optical properties.
[•]If something that is poisonous only in excessive quantities is contaminated with something that is poisonous even in normally consumed doses, the latter dominates the detection; but with a successful Craft (Alchemy) or Heal, it is possible to detect both types of toxicity.
[•]By default, when you learn this spell from a general source (such as a general deity), you use it to detect what is poisonous to you; however, with successful use of Craft (Alchemy) or Heal AND the appropriate creature identification knowledge skill, you can use it to detect what is poisonous to other kinds of creatures.
[•]By default, when you learn this spell from a source that has particular conceptions of what is poisonous (such as from most Witch Patrons or some deity that normally only has one creature type as a worshipper), you use it to detect what is considered poisonous by that source, but with the proviso that said source can impart awareness of what is poisonous to creatures it considers important (essentially, a less refined version of the above); you can still use Craft (Alchemy) or Heal AND an appropriate creature identification knowledge skill as above, with a bonus if the creature type is one that is important to the source of this version of the spell. In this case, the aforementioned bonus is normally +2, but increases to +4 if you have at least 10 ranks in one of the relevant skills, and to +6 if you have at least 10 ranks in both of the relevant skills.
[•]Obscure Poison works against Detect Poison, as advertised in the description of Obscure Poison.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

samurai are too broad to be archetype

I don't really follow how "Samurai" is too broad for an archetype when things like Bounty Hunter, Scout, Pirate, and Vigilante are archetypes all of which are things I would consider broader than "Samurai".

samurai start as manager for estate of capital bureaucrat

some continue to be bugyo until the end of samurai
{. . .}
it is not a actual job

Now I've got this vision of some poor Samurai-wannabe stuck in in an utterly awful employment trap in a real estate office . . . .

UnArcaneElection wrote:

keftiu wrote:

David knott 242 wrote:

Wouldn't the devils in this story be a retcon? I thought the colonial masters of Sargava rebelled against Cheliax during the same civil war when the Thrune diabolists took over. That would suggest that, as nasty as they otherwise were, they most likely were not in league with devils.

Sargava had a Hellknight presence aligned with the colonial regime.

. . . And now that the colonial regime has been overthrown, Cheliax itself probably made a deal to the remnants that they couldn't refuse.

Most Hellknight orders don't use devils for anything but their admissions test, as I recall. I suppose that there might be some anti-Thrune diabolists among the colonials, but they would most likely be a very small minority.

According to the 1st Edition Hellknight prestige class, Hellknights could pick a skill to summon Devils. For low-level Hellknights, this was only for Order of the Gate; but once they got to 9th level in the prestige class (minimum Character Level 14), a Hellknight of any Order could get this ability. In 2nd Edition, Cross-Training seems to be limited to getting the Lesser Order Benefit, thereby closing this off; but I wonder if some high-level Hellknights hanging around from 1st Edition might still have this canonically.

David knott 242 wrote:

Wouldn't the devils in this story be a retcon? I thought the colonial masters of Sargava rebelled against Cheliax during the same civil war when the Thrune diabolists took over. That would suggest that, as nasty as they otherwise were, they most likely were not in league with devils.

Sargava had a Hellknight presence aligned with the colonial regime.

. . . And now that the colonial regime has been overthrown, Cheliax itself probably made a deal to the remnants that they couldn't refuse.

(Suddenly have this vision of regional deities, but the better-connected ones offer their Clerics reasonable roaming plans for travel out of region . . . .)

{. . .} the cooperative waffles have apparently been making a splash, so I'll tell you I gave them that form to celebrate the return of the mithral waffle iron in PF2. I played a PF1 sorcerer who not only bought one, but liked it so much that he put one of his scant two skill ranks every level into Craft (waffle). And he always made the party breakfast.

{. . .}

Now that's dedication. No waffling in that commitment . . . .

{. . .}

And then...she had enough. Much as our own world came to the table and worked to talk through our differences after witnessing the devastating potential of nuclear war, Kazutal – witnessing the scale of destruction and desolation caused by war – was provoked to take a long look at what it was she really valued. While it's unknown exactly what moved her, it seems she ultimately decided what she really cared about is people – all people.
{. . .}

Apart from disagreements on Golarion lore, I think you might be giving the people of Earth too much credit . . . .

{. . .}

I kinda avoided mentioning it whenever 1e core ancestries get brought up is that lot of their history is from player companion books from early pathfinder which are of questionable canonicity nowadays {. . .} Orc player companion for example proposes idea that reason why orcs are so eager to fight to death is that they have innate talent to forget traumatic memories seemingly at will(to be exact, player companion claims they have ability to selectively forget what they want to forget, which they usually use to forget memories they believe make them weaker, like crippling failures, moments of fleeting terror and unwanted emotions). {. . .} (its at same time hilariously disturbing ability and pretty alien concept, so I'm bit sad it never got explored again, though I guess it was originally more of cheap justification for leeroy jenkins tactics)
{. . .}

Alien? Humans do this all the time on Earth.

^Even so, Fighter archetypes that don't have their Weapon Training replacement count as Weapon Training or at least leave a subset of levels of Weapon Training are generally trash. A prime example of this is Archer, which is an archetype that was released early. The only exception that comes to mind is the Martial Master, whose replacement for Weapon Training doesn't count as Weapon Training but has enough of its own virtue to be worth considering.

Just realized I had been leaving out a whole bunch of stuff I would like to see get the Unchained treatment: VMC for all of the classes that don't have it. The quality of VMC as it is turned out to be really uneven (and so needs a rework), but the idea was sound.

To exist.

That leaves an awful lot of latitude. Well, let's see, here's the version that keeps popping into my head:

As you enter, you hear a constant murmur, which soon resolves into a cacophony of nerd expressions, weird synthetic voices and monster sounds, the sounds of steel balls on bumpers and the workings of other mechanical contraptions, and shots and explosions of which a large subset sound oddly musical, occasionally punctuated by the sound of coins dropping. From somewhere overhead comes a pulsating but unceasing rain of cheesy early 1980s music . . . .

No, wait! Wrong Arcadia . . . .

{. . .}

I guess i just got so used to killer DM's i build my character with the expectation that my DM is actively trying to kill me.

I haven't had the misfortune to have had one of those yet, but in my first few years of AD&D playing I was introduced to one (fortunately never met in person) via a primitive precursor of social media (yes, such things existed even in the late 1970s). That killer DM (a particularly vicious and capricious yet surprisingly popular DM who took joy in tearing up character sheets, and making the players start over with a new 1st level character(*)) was a university professor. I was going to say what they were a professor of, but first, anybody care to take a guess?

(*)I didn't think to ask about the highest level characters got to in that campaign, but for some reason the vicinity of level 8 or so sticks in my head.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

As long as you can get immortality (with your life remaining fully usable), you have time to solve the other problems, like the expense of the diamonds you need for casting Wishes.

Immortality would be the worst form of punishment. "May you live forever" is an insult I save for those I truly hate.

... may you live with your mistakes forever... may you live with your loss forever... may you live long enough to watch all you love turn to dust... may you live long enough to give up on love... may you live long enough that everything that brings you joy dies...

May you live forever in a loveless, joyless eternity with an ever-growing memory filled with loss and regret...
{. . .}

I disagree with you on several grounds, but the one most relevant in this case is that I am already being punished -- I might as well get something for it.

Wish I could get something out the door . . . if only I wasn't now working 6 or 7 days each week.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The point of Pathfinder Unchained was to fix things that were so bad they needed a complete rework of the class. {. . .}

I wouldn't call the Pathfinder Unchained classes complete reworks

I think this is just semantics. Would "revise" work better? "Reshape?" "Revamp?" I think Mysterious Stranger's point still stands.

Much of the Unchained Rogue class table still looks the same as the pre-Unchained Rogue class table, and much of the basic class description is similar, so I would call this an evolutionary upgrade rather than a complete rework. Now, it's a GOOD upgrade, but still evolutionary.

If you want an example of something more closely approaching a complete rework, the enormous change from Pathfinder 1st Edition to 2nd Edition is the prime example.

I do recall in Eberron, there were "luxury prison cells" for influencial criminals, mostly of the political class. That's an easy split for real and synthetic food :)

That sounds disturbingly familiar . . . .

The point of Pathfinder Unchained was to fix things that were so bad they needed a complete rework of the class. {. . .}

I wouldn't call the Pathfinder Unchained classes complete reworks -- they are still extremely recognizable as derived from their originals, even if you're not paying attention to the class name or flavor text when you read the Unchained class description.

One thing it does that would need smoothing out is give huge power jumps at certain levels, while others progress rather slowly.

Something in between this and the Pathfinder 1st Edition standard Fighter would be in order.

^ . . . That would be to Curse of the Crimson Throne as Return of the Runelords is to Rise of the Runelords.

^Would be interested to hear about this.

^Sounds nice, but where should I be looking for Effortless Training (must be another Fighter Unchained addition)?

By the way, sort of related to this, where would be the right place (if any) to ask about the artwork that appears on the home page? Like for instance, who and where is the very large Sphinx in the Pathfinder panel? (To keep this legitimately relevant to this thread, I compared the Paizo artwork to the Wizards of the Coast D&D page artwork, and as much as I despise what Wizards of the Coast has been doing recently, I think the artwork on that page is essentially on the same level as the artwork on the home page here.)

As long as you can get immortality (with your life remaining fully usable), you have time to solve the other problems, like the expense of the diamonds you need for casting Wishes.

Depends upon what time period. D&D 3.x had pretty good artwork, although it seemed to be starting to go downhill in the last couple of years. Pathfinder art has been its true spiritual successor, just as Pathfinder 1st Edition was the true spiritual successor to D&D 3.x.

it's nice that you're artistic.

I'm still waiting for the new british aerobics to catch on in the gym.

That second one MUST get awarded the Ig Nobel prize in Physiology or Medicine.

^That depends. I remember this 1970s cartoon of some cryptozoologists finally finding Bigfoot, and saying "He wasn't exactly what we expected", and in the foreground is this little monkey with huge feet. I think the Far Side had something similar . . . .

I always liked the idea that ELF stands for Enhanced Life Form.

(Wondering if you could apply to do a years-after sequel to Curse of the Crimson Throne . . . .)

^Going for the diversified Favored Enemy bonus hurts you if you do manage to get to cast Instant Enemy.

{. . .}

Target one creature that is not your favored enemy.
{. . .}

This means that if a creature falls into one of your wimpier Favored Enemy bonuses, you can't use this spell to bump it up to max.

In contrast, Terrain Bond is at least a little bit useful unless you are in your most Favored Terrain, because it explicitly lets you treat the terrain you are in as your most Favored Terrain (which will work even if the terrain you are in would normally be one of your wimpier Favored Terrains).

Just checking in here to see if anyone's still on the air.

{. . .} Next time try to get yourself familiar with the stuff you're "hating", because I've lost the count of times when your desires for fixes to PF1 are things that are actually addressed in PF2.

I know this wasn't (at least mostly) for me, but I wouldn't mind backporting little bits and pieces of stuff from 2nd Edition to 1st Edition, although not necessarily keeping them the same in so doing. Like for instance, I think scaling Cantrips are not a bad idea, but I think 2nd Edition was too generous with them -- instead of just auto-scaling, have them scale with spell slot level (likely with some limited auto-scaling with caster level stacked on the way 1st Edition does for a lot of non-cantrip spells) -- in other words, you have to invest more in them to make them more powerful (at least after a certain point).

^I guess that means that now it's an Undead Equine Ooze . . . .

I have to admit, when Skulls and Shackles came out for 1e...it was fun to play and on a whim I ended creating what would be one of my favorite characters. I made a Swashbuckler/Witch.

{. . .}

Now you've got me curious. How did that work?

^A little more thought on the above -- Orc Paladin just barely managed to escape being entrapped by an Infernal Contract drawn up by one of Tar-Baphon's more diabolically-inclined lieutenant Wizards (based in a tower at the shoreline of Lake Encarthian) who had been disguised as an innocuous mentor (something that might be hard for the Whispering Way members to pull off, but since it would be a juicy opportunity for them, they would surely try hard at it if they thought they had a chance).

{. . .} You've got ring species, where two populations A and B that are geographically overlapping can interbreed, and then B is overlapping with C and can interbreed, and so on. If you take individuals from population F, they can't have fertile offspring with population A - but it is possible for their genetic material to get to population A if it just goes back through the ring, and at some point in there we do clearly need to call them a different species, but there's no clear-cut point. {. . .}

And here's your in-world example (although a short one) of a ring species.

*sighs*

Okay, in 2014 James Jacobs said that Elves and Orcs cannot crossbreed as they are incompatible biologically speaking.
{. . .}

Given the artwork we have seen of various Hobgoblins, in which some appear more human than others, I suspect that Hobgoblins and Humans can interbreed, but they just won't admit it.

^I'll just note that while 2nd Edition made attack Cantrips worthwhile, they reduced the number of spells of each level. (Also made the number of spells you get of each level even more angular -- usually 1 when you first get access to it and then 3 at the next level.) This is most definitely not my preference, but it seems to be the way things are headed at least for the foreseeable future.

{. . .} Despite Asmodeus being the official state religion, it is essential to note that even within a theocracy, discrimination and prejudice can still exist and that the fight for justice and equality must be continuous. {. . .}

ESPECIALLY within a theocracy, discrimination and prejudice can still exist. And you can be sure Asmodeus is not fighting for justice and equality . . . I say, you must not be from Golarion . . . .

^That's a reasonable addition as well (to avoid Sudden Barbarian Death Syndrome).

^That link doesn't work as directly copied and pasted, because it has a space inserted into Timeline -- try this.

Sorcerer -- not so much an Unchained version of the class itself, but a reworking of Bloodlines, starting with organization (and the current lack thereof), and proceeding to rebalance them. Some Bloodline Powers and some Bloodline Feats are just traps, and some are awesome, and they are definitely not evenly distributed between the Bloodlines; also some Bloodline Feats are impossible for a single-class Sorcerer to qualify for due to needing a high Base Attack Bonus or high Base Save Bonus on what would be a good Save for characters that would normally take these feats, but a bad Save for a Sorcerer. I would also like for Bloodlines, Domains, Arcane Schools, etc. to be more like mini-Mysteries, but that goes beyond the Sorcerer; but you have to start somewhere.

Bloodrager -- again this is more a fix to the Bloodlines than the class itself(*). Many Sorcerer Bloodlines (especially but not limited to Wildblooded) have no corresponding Bloodrager Bloodline, and in a few cases (Psychic comes to mind) what is a Bloodline in one is an archetype in the other. (Somebody must have been taking organizational lessons from the 1st Edition AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide.) And then they need rebalancing as well, as for Sorcerer Bloodline Powers and Bloodline Feats.

(*)Admittedly, the Bloodrager class itself has one big annoyance: At 3rd level you get Blood Sanctuary, which usually isn't very useful (especially when you get it) and which delays the acquisition of Bloodline Feats all the way until 6th level. So replace Blood Sanctuary with a Bloodline Feat at 3rd level, and make Blood Sanctuary a Bloodline Feat that is universal to all Bloodrager Bloodlines, in case anybody really wants it. Any archetype that replaces Bloodline Sanctuary instead replaces the Bloodline Feat at 3rd level.

The Stamina system had some good ideas, but it seemed half-baked (in particular, many things running you out of Stamina very quickly).

Also, by a remarkable coincidence, What Classes Do You Wish Got The Unchained Treatment?.

Dancing Wind wrote:

Will your law firm be working with creators to help them make sure what they publish stays firmly within the Creative Commons license?

I myself and business is not a lawyer/law firm. However I have familiarity with the IP laws.

There are lawyers that may be interested in helping to thread the legal needle. Some are already into RPG. Lovecraft's work and the years since his death is presumingly reaching a point where the work falls into public domain and so to be inspired by his work can lead to your own depiction. You can add elements into a depiction that wasn't in his or even in WotC or Chaosium's depiction of say Mind Flayers and Cthulu.

So, specifically, how long do we have remaining to wait before we can have a Pastafaraian Azathoth?

Aotrscommander wrote:

I believe this video basically sums it up, really.

A Message From WotC About OGL*

*Curtesy of Going Rogue.

Thank you for the humor. Only when will Microsoft be as candid and honest when they give you the blue screen of death or when they are injecting your computer with problems through their engineered backdoor.

Microsoft candid or honest? I still remember their End User License Agreement from the late 1990s that wouldn't even let you run benchmarks on their products. I don't know if they still have that buried somewhere in their infernal contracts, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually still in there and I just missed it.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Also, 1st Edition had Order of the Godclaw, which had a grouping of 5 Lawful deities that seemed to function for them as a pantheon in all but name (although some argue that the Order of the Godclaw isn't actually getting their diving spells from them). Not sure if it's still around, but if it is, you can be sure that its inclusion of Asmodeus does not make most of the other members (except Abadar) happy.

Indeed, the Godclaw exists as a 2e pantheon with its own pantheon deity entry already.

Thanks -- I wasn't looking at the right place in Archives of Nethys for 2nd Edition.

Soulbound Summoner. VMC oracle will get you a curse for any class.

Thanks for the Soulbound (Unchained, not Classic) Summoner tip. I had somehow missed that, probably from forgetting to look in both versions of the class to keep track of archetypes.

VMC Oracle is valid but usually isn't very good -- one of the consumed feats is blown on temporarily speeding up Curse advancement, and another is blown on an Orison, AND you take a 6 level penalty for determining your effective Oracle level for not only qualifying for Revelations, but also for determining their effect, and not all Mysteries or Revelations are available. If you can find a combination of Revelations that don't depend on your Oracle level (or at least not much), then it could be okay.

^I would also expect the existence of a subset of food synthesizers that is expensive for high capacity but not for quality, to churn out fast food in places where the management doesn't want to pay fair wages or in dangerous neighborhoods (although in the latter case, considerable expenditure would be needed for security, so that miscreants don't steal or trash the food synthesizer). A subset of such dangerous neighborhoods would be prisons (for which the management probably wouldn't want to spend money on real cooks anyway, unless they thought they could get the prisoners themselves to do the work).