Thoranin's page

What is really the difference between a 10 ft sqare as in the Grease spell.

Or a 5 ft burst ?

RAW, I don't know how much sound counts as 1 object.

If I was a GM, I would make 1 square of sand count as 1 object. But I can see other GMs ruling 1 grain of sand counts as 1 object.

Also, if casting Sculpt Sound on the sand doesn't work, you can always cast it on the Scorpion itself. It gets a Will save, but if it fails, you can "create sounds where none exist" and make a chaotic ruckus originating from the Scorpion's heartbeat for 1 hour/level. The spell description doesn't give an upper limit to how loud you can go, so go ahead and test your GM.

Alternatively, you can cast Sculpt Sound on yourself and your allies, as it can also "deaden sounds". That might get around a sound-based blindsense.

Thank you, does actually help, if it happens again might ask for it.

Had a silly encounter with a silly thought but did not dare fully to implement it.

Ended up being a bard in a desert fighting a gigant sand scorpion that happened to use as echolocation.

For a moment I had the idea to use sculpt sound on the soil beneath him transforming it into chiming bells, confusing it for a bit.
But here is the thing. Sculpt Sound allows transformation of 1 object per caster level....sound is an uncountable thing.

How do uncountables behave in this instance?

Does 1 lb of sand = 1 object ? I grain of sand = 1 object ? 1 square of sand ?

A little help would be advised.

PS: Might still need this we are crossing Raurin the long way round so sand will be a thing for at least 2-3 more sessions. ;)

True, enchanting it should not pose a big problem.

We don't smuggle much yet. But I am bound by bardic rules to look as sharp as possible, and the vest is supposed to look very sharp.
Still might really go for a Mithral shirt +1 later in the game sounds amazing.
Cant really have a Handy Haversack or I have problems with my Bag of holding. :(

Recently (at lvl 5) got a strange custom armour, am lvl 6 now.

I do play a Archer type Bard [the slightly grumpy kind that still did not get to attain masterpieces due to a DM's dumb rule and hence going almost full archer now]

Did get a bespoke made armour though crafted from the very finest of basilisk leather.
A basilisk leather vest of many pockets.
Light AC +2 MaxDEX +6 CHECK 0 Spell failure 0 (would not matter anyway being a bard) Weight 2 lbs
Special property: You can store up to 50 lbs of small (up to potion sized)items in this vest without it gaining any weight.

Would you say this is a keeper or ought I slip into a Mithral chain +1 as soon as I can find one.

With this vest my AC is 16. To be +1 once I reach lvl 8 and +2 AC once I get to buy a buckler +1 (possibly next town)

And is there any common parler on how to enchant these things? Or am I purely at the mercy of the DM when it comes to enchanting bespoke gear?

Actually the issue is I have a bow in my buckler arm. Being an archer bard and all. Not very likely I will have a wand there just ready. Wands will take a full standard action for me most probably. My UMD is pretty high though.

Also does not solve what to do with Ice Elemental Essence :I

Marik Whiterose wrote:

Shocking Grasp is like 120v, Lightning Bolt is definitely 220.

Shocking Grasp is Edison, Chain Lightning is Tesla.

Hate to be the combo breaker but those men had nothing to do with voltage :I

Tesla liked to experiment without knowing the whole science behind it and made some wonderous devices.

While Edison was just a marketing person that stole inventions people were too clumsy or poor to patent on time.

America and Japan amongst others use the 120-140 voltage claiming it is safer.
While Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia, New Zeeland and South america are on 220 (With the +- 10% it is in fact 240 if you ever measure it, if it is more contact your distributer)

Edison had a 110 V DC sistem that was later replaced by a 120-140 AC sistem. All that remains of Edison was the claim for it to be safer than other sistems, because Elephants fry well.

Also Voltage is not the dangerous part but Amperage is. For those that rub a baloon you can get that thing up to ~KVolt range and it wont kill anyone. But get the amp up high enough on even 6V and someone is fried.

As a Bard one walks into many strange adventures. Amongst them skinning a basilisk and giving it to a gnome tailor produces a "Basilisk armour vest of many pockets" (Wt: 2 lb, 2 AC, DEX 6, ACP 0, 10% spell failure) The vest also besides looking sexy and fit (Also a reason why my Bard would reluctantly take it off) gives me the ability to store up to 50 lb of up to potion and dagger sized objects in it's many pockets without them weighing anything.

The thing is just. I don't have much AC. Being an archer bard, it does not seem like a bit problem though. Do plan on taking up a +1 living steel buckler for +2AC and even play around with a ring of protection idea. But my question is, would I rather invest in a ring of protection / replace this armour with a mithral shirt / or try to enchant it till it sparkles.

Also any ideas what to do with Ice Elemental essence?
Or a pile of Neather dust (That a wraith dropped after being smite)

Ok but back to gear.

Think I will spend my money on:
1800 Efficient Quiver
1000 Cloak of Resistance +1
1255 Buckler (Living Steel) +1
1000 Quick Runners Shirt
~500 Tons of strange arrows
And for desert crossing gear:
~200 A barrel of beer
~200 Rations
~1000 Tons of potions
________________________________
~6955

The rest to save up for a Tuned bow sting so I can skip the Lingering performance feat P:

Any other tips for gear to stay alive while crossing Raurin and the Purple Desert?

It was hiding behind the sofa the entire time.

That Sexyness ;D I thought I thought it better!

Thanks for the info Thoranin. Defn'ly ignoring that for both bucklers and tower shields.

Found the sexy.

o.O ? where?

Wait, where does it say you can't have spiked bucklers?

Benefit: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.

An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

Right there :I And I find it stupid. Not only historically but also practically the only shield you do bashes, hits, thrusts and often adorn with spikes are tiny ones that are what PF and DnD refer to as bucklers. And if you ever practice proper HEMA you will see that you can very well carry a small shield and block with it while you use even something huge as a spear or Helebard. :I

@Kyrrion Ya~ Though I might wait for the Bardic Masterpiece that lets me Call a Lightning storm P: sounds more fun.

Shocking Grasp is like 120v, Lightning Bolt is definitely 220.

I had a thought though, I might have to worry about AC/DC compatibility.

alottasmartstuff...

THANK YOU!!! So basically you say I do keep both the att and the AC bonus as I do hold onto the bow but the arm doing most work is the one operating the arrow?

Thoranin wrote:

p-sto wrote:

Just get some copper wire and run it to the nearest wizard. Problem solved, electric guitar powered.

We have a sorceress o.O ? Would that work as well?

Also I just got a cursed lute that compels me to do good (being the only non good character that actually did non good deeds). And I think that the DM wants me to play metal on it, as he has hinted at it several times. Even told me that Iron Maiden would do perfectly. XD

Personally I prefer to sanction the abuse of wizards but I suppose if sorceress is the closest you can get and this is acceptable to you then I have no right to object.

Well... she is being a goody goody sorceress :I Abusing her sounds just too tasty to me.

Real men use lightning bolt. Shocking grasp may work too.

Maybe, but a bard has neither :( only dazzling sexyness. Maybe I could use Bronze Whisperer's Shield for that ^.^ Sounds sexy enough to be on a bard and the buckler bit makes it fun for my bow

Just get some copper wire and run it to the nearest wizard. Problem solved, electric guitar powered.

We have a sorceress o.O ? Would that work as well?

Also I just got a cursed lute that compels me to do good (being the only non good character that actually did non good deeds). And I think that the DM wants me to play metal on it, as he has hinted at it several times. Even told me that Iron Maiden would do perfectly. XD

To the OP. If the GM is heavily restricting magic items and gear has he made the encounters easier? Or do your characters have an extra edge via higher point buy, an extra feat, innate bonuses (to atk/saves/def/etc)?

My recommendations for basic gear:
1155 +1 buckler. Works while wielding your bow.
3000 Ring of the Knight Inheritor. Prot +1, Bless Weapon 1/day
1000 Cloak Resist +1
5000 Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier +1 AC reduce crit(or ignore sneak attack) to normal hit 1/day
2100 Mithral shirt +1
====
12255 gp

AC: 10+1(ring)+1(jingasa)+5(shirt)+2(shield)=19 before your dex/size.

Also if you don't have it already, ghost salt and alchemical silver blanch for your cold iron arrows. Cast abundant ammunition before using these arrows though so you don't run out.

If your bow wasn't keen I would have recommended Bracers of Falcon's Aim.

Good luck!

Didn't fully get this from the pure text. Does the buckler work just regarding not ruining your attack whilst wielding a bow or also the AC works if the bow is used?

And Do I even need both hands to cast or can I single hand cast without extra feats? (As a bard)

Thoranin wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

Ok. I agree we need spikes on bucklers too. Plus spiked tiaras, earrings, ioun stones, gold pieces and trail rations.

*_* Stilettos made out of spikes would be to die for!

And who did not dream of wearing a spiked tiara? D: Not having them in game is a crime to humanity! A travesty! And spiked coins would so save the problems of not having pockets like many creatures "like ents" have. Trail rations ...spikes almost the same as fibre :D makes you poop like a God! And your poop becomes a weapon if need be. Think of the added + to monkey mechanics if this were implemented ah...we are some sort of geniusses♥

Ashtathlon wrote:

That is usually a GM call for magic item upgrades..in our campaigns its not a big deal..and there are rules for it..but again its a GM call.

Fairest of all the answers.

You are silly...I like you :)

You seem likable as well :3

Thoranin wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

It doesn't matter. Spikes are stuff you can put on shields of any sort. Like dual-wielded spiked tower shields. You should also be able to put spikes on staves, bows, greatswords, pistols, bracers of armor, and everything else including rings. Massive spikes on helmets are almost per definition awesome. You're overthinking things, see?

Well yes I agree with you they should be on everything (you forgot boots btw). :( My problem is why not on bucklersas well ? From all the shieldy things it would be the most useful and there it is explicitly forbiden by the rulebooks.

Ok. I agree we need spikes on bucklers too. Plus spiked tiaras, earrings, ioun stones, gold pieces and trail rations.

*_* Stilettos made out of spikes would be to die for!

And who did not dream of wearing a spiked tiara? D: Not having them in game is a crime to humanity! A travesty! And spiked coins would so save the problems of not having pockets like many creatures "like ents" have. Trail rations ...spikes almost the same as fibre :D makes you poop like a God! And your poop becomes a weapon if need be. Think of the added + to monkey mechanics if this were implemented ah...we are some sort of geniusses♥

That is usually a GM call for magic item upgrades..in our campaigns its not a big deal..and there are rules for it..but again its a GM call.

Fairest of all the answers.

as far as bucklers go..a living steel one is pretty nifty..

as per PFSRD
Armor and shields made from living steel can damage metal weapons that strike them. Whenever the wielder of a metal weapon rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll against a creature wearing living steel armor or wielding a living steel shield, the item must make a DC 20 Fortitude save or gain the broken condition. If the weapon already has the broken condition, it is instead destroyed. Living steel cannot damage adamantine weapons in this way.

make the GM hate those 1s..lol..and it heals itself.

That is a good idea actually. I am surprised how cheap Living Steel is actually ._. it is as hard as mithral and repairs itself yet costs almost nothing extra. Maybe +1 the murderf&!%er as well!

Also a pretty nooby question, but I never fully got the enchantments too well. Lets say I am poor (or cheap) and want to enchant it to +1 but NOT add any extra things like "Clangorous" (Also do know that I do not know good enchantments for shields yet :( must look them up so advice would also be welcome). Can I come to a wizzbizz shop later and say "this thing is +1 can you put "Clangorous" on it? " Or do I have to select the enchantment modifier at the same time as the +x modifier?

It doesn't matter. Spikes are stuff you can put on shields of any sort. Like dual-wielded spiked tower shields. You should also be able to put spikes on staves, bows, greatswords, pistols, bracers of armor, and everything else including rings. Massive spikes on helmets are almost per definition awesome. You're overthinking things, see?

Well yes I agree with you they should be on everything (you forgot boots btw). :( My problem is why not on bucklersas well ? From all the shieldy things it would be the most useful and there it is explicitly forbiden by the rulebooks.

Rather than a lit Lantern, just use Continual Flame.

As for the Darkwood Buckler, the price does match what you would get if you took a light wooden shield and made it from Darkwood. I could see where an argument could be made that RAW it is a light wooden shield rather than a buckler, especially since the buckler specifically states it is made of metal.

You could always get a buckler made of a special material that works for metallic items such as Mithral, Bone, or maybe Dragonhide. I would think a Dragonhide Buckler would qualify as impressive.

Thing is just, a lntern shield does exist. They are generally a buckler with a hook for the lantern or some with an inbuilt latnern.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6527/picture15gz.png

An example of a lantern shield. This one also has spikes but they dont need them. *-* Pretty ain't it ?

Also I have a gripe with DnD's shield spikes if we are at this. From all the shields that can have spikes DnD as well as Pathfinder forbids them only on bucklers. But not only historically but also if you ever read up on old martial arts or try practicing them, the only shield that can have a spike or ever did is a buckler. For all larger shields are too unwieldy if they have a spike and snag on anything.

Did read up that price wise it would come up to a light shield made from darkwood.
Then again a wodden light shield is 3 gp darkwood would be 203 gp a steel light shield is 9 gp and would be 209 gp.
If we use the same logic a wodden buckler would cost less than a steel one in the base price and could be only 3 gp and a darkwood variant would bring it to 203 gp.
The main argument for it being a buckler that I like is that it is a premade specific item. It is a "Darkwood Buckler" and not a "Buckler (Darkwood)" Much like the " Thornbow " costs 59700 gp but constructing a composite longbow with the same properties would cost 167625 gp
Probably best to leave this one to a DM to DM basis. :I

Either way I really wish they would tidy up semanitcs in Pathfinder :( Similar to how there are two Thorn bows one is a useless and cheap exptic weapon with flower decorations and one counts as a standard shortbow but has insane magical properties.

PS: The spikes on shields still annoy the hell out of me D: even the reasoning I heard why one cannot put spikes on bucklers in pathfinder and DnD is annoying. D; If they had more exact people like physicists or solicitors in pathfinder these problems would not arise!

To add to sexy-ness.
Has anyone allowed something like a Lantern shield so far? (a small shield with a lantern built in and quite often a spike as well used in the 16 and 17 centuries for duelling) Probably that could be made most sexy.

Also I have read about the Darkwood Buckler not being a buckler. How would you look at it? I mean it is a specifically item why would it not be a buckler? I understand the reasons why a buckler could not be made from darkwood by standard rules. I wonder if that is the reason it has a special entry on its own.

Also Oathbows and such lot, may you enchant them? Or add tuned bowstrings to them?

It's alright, everyone, I'm here now. So the thread title makes sense.

Sorry Cuuniyevo already took your sexyness slot and greystone is a firm second :I Back to 'merica's underground you little scamp~

Save a little bit more and buy a Tuned Bowstring. It's a sweet complement to your magic bow.

♥♥♥!!!! THANK YOU!

I suppose I will spend my money only on an Efficient Quiver some fancy arrows and a cloak of resistance. The rest can keep rolling for more funky stuff. (Also maybe a wand and some desert crossing gear)

@Scrapper the buckler idea is perfect, no idea how I forgot I could have one. Thanks for that!

Also I think I still prefer Mithral shirt simply for the price and don't need that much AC really positioning should save me most of the time :I

I'm failing to spot the "sexyness" mentioned in the title of the thread. Do you need a headband of alluring charisma +1?

Comes with time ;) We can alway heat things up.

Hmm though it is a question that needs anwsering. Lets say I wear a headband. May I without removing the headband dorn put on a hat of disguise and use it too? I mean purely from a practical point of view a headband is not that huge of a thing.

Paizo actually put in a Keen Bow in "Dragons Demand". It's even on the PFS Chronicle for it. I know because my hunter has one.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 mithril armor - 5200 (mithril breastplate if you picked up the -1ACP trait - mithril kikko armor otherwise)

+1 ring of protection - 2000

+1 amulet of nat armor - 2000

An efficient quiver - 1800 (great for having just the right arrow for the job to deal with DRs etc)

A bunch of different arrow types - 300ish (to put in the efficient quiver)

Cloak of Resistance +1 - 1000

You should end up with a couple hundred gold afterwards, though that depends upon how many different arrows you get. (silver/blunt/cold iron/adamantine etc)

It won't help your offense except by helping get through DR, but your AC should be up to at 20-22 (I don't know your dex) and the boost to saves is always a good thing.

This is based upon the assumption that your bard is primarily an archer. If you're mostly a support caster style bard, your priorities will change.

Why would I take a Medium armor that will pump up my spell failure?

Efficient Quiver is quite high on my list as well. But I doupt I can find another cloak of resistance +1 as another player has one. Same with ring of protection. :(

Got into a bit of a problem.

Playing a bard at lvl 6 (soon lvl 7) in the campain. And so far things are going well...apart for one bit, I don't get any gear apart from a +1 keen bow (please dont ask why it is keen the GM said "deal with it" to me and I reccon I just should) and a leather vest of many pockets (2AC and I can carry up to 50 lbs of small items in it without them having any weight)

I love the bow, and the vest is well...useful, but by now the rest of my gear is 3-4 lvls behind the rest of the group.

I did however get to save up 12.500gp through trades, luck, and smart investments. Now I need to spend it before the rest of the group finds out how much gp I really have by now. (Or the GM notices and tries to compensate by giving others yet more player specific loot)

Did try to spend it twice but so far one City got bruned down by a wizzard gone mad. In the other city we did have the luck that of the many options to do we managed to pick the one magic shop first that the wizards friend runs and he noticed the curse upon us and began to call the mad wizard to do their wizzbizz on us.

City no.3 Might actually have wares and be safe...ish...I hope.

So any tips what to get with 12.500gp as a Bard?

I am going to add my vote to arcane strike, due to the new riving strike feat.

It is basically a 1 turn Evil Eye hex when it comes down to spells. A nice little -2 debuff that has no save (well, it is kind of like an evil eye that was saved against...but that remaining effectiveness was a main draw for evil eye anyway) and can be done from just about any distance with your bow.

Taking the feat that leads to that seems kind of worth while, particularly since it adds at least some extra damage to your attacks. The swift action also looks well used with that.

Does seem quite nice actually. Does the 1 round -2 also still apply in my next round?

If not I might not take it only because there is just one sorcerer the rest are boring old pure weapon builds.

I wish riving strike wasn't limited to Spells or SLAs. No supernatural or extraordinary abilities mean it wont help hexes, monk stunning fist, several domain abilities, and so on. Still pretty sweet though.

Extraordinary and supernatural need to be a bit op, it's in the name P:

Semantics should be updated. Too many ambiguous sentences, although could also be the case to help the GM and PC's argue more. Part of the fun. :D Still will ask our GM how he interprets this.

Me I would interpret it that stopping is no action and starting is a standard (unless you can speed it up with later levels) Would be silly why stopping anything would be anything but a free action. I mean you can full round attack for 3 attack decide not to do the last attack is the enemy yields at low hp. Don't see why fate would force you to commit.

But thanks for the rest :D
Still I'd love to hear anyone fully explain the X full round vs X round actions.

Discordant voice and critical hits: Same as every other damage dice beyond the weapon damage dice, doesn't multiply.

Starting a second performance: Ask your GM. The text is "Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action.", but the question is whether it means "stopping the previous one and starting a new one is a standard action" or "no action to stop the previous and (normally) standard action to start the new one". As written I think you have to spend a standard action to stop and then start a bardic performance. Or you just just choose not to maintain it at the start of your turn and start whichever one you want.

A full round action requires a full round action and starts at the end of your turn. A 1 round action requires 1 round and takes place at the start of your next turn (and can be interrupted if it's a spell).

Disrupting performances: Not as written. It implies interruption but doesn't really say how (possibly they prevent you from performing?).

Concentration on things that aren't spells: This writer still thought it was a skill, apparently. There's no way to do it. Replacing it with the Will save is probably best.

You should be able to use masterpieces and performance in the same round (without one stopping the other). And yes, you can start a bardic performance with a higher action cost. It says you "can" do it as a move action, not that you have to.

Thought so about the crits, otherwise it would be too over powered.

I do plan on stopping the previous one just I would like to spend the free action (and one use of BP) to keep Dirge of Doom up for the -2 on saves would I cast a spell as a standard, and then as a move action (post lvl 7 can do that) start a new one (and stop the last one). Don't fully understand why stopping a performance would cost a standard action. That is what I would most like to find out in this post.

[I know that the performances will not stack, that is not what I even plan. I just want the -2 on saves for that one spell and than buff my party for the next round]

For normal bardic performances: "A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round."

As for the 1 full round and 1 round, I somehow understand it if it is for 1 full round and 1 round, but some masterpieces require 3 or 5 full round actions. Does that mean I must spend 5 full round actions on it, or I must maintain it for 5 round but at the end of the last round it is done.

--Also can one curse a person twice ? As in Canticle of joy from me and from a spell? They probably don't stack but can each curse apply to different things. (so -4 on saves and attack AND a 50% to do nothing? )

Actually another.

Post lvl 7, may I use my move to start a masterpiece (that would take only a standard action so it is quickened by the lvl 7 into a move) and than start a normal performance "inspire courage or anything similar" as a standard action but in the same round?

Discordant voice... how does it go with critical hits?

Another thing, as a post lvl 7 bard. May I free action to maintain a bardic performance (Dirge of Doom), Standard action (cast spell, intimidate, anything I'd like the -2 on saves from DoD to still apply), and than use my move to start a different performance?

Also not fully sure I understand the 2 round 2 full rounds differentiation. Some bardic masterpieces say X rounds to get the effect, some X full rounds. Is there a difference or just duplicated semantics ?

Do the same rules for disrupting performances apply to masterpieces?

And I've seen (The Rheumy Refrain (Sing) say

... If the target fails its Will save, whenever it attempts any action other than moving up to its base speed or making a single melee attack (but not both) in a single round, it must succeed at a concentration check (DC 10 + your Charisma modifier) to avoid wasting its action because of a fit of coughing and sneezing."

How does concentration work on swift, full round actions, or any combat maneuvers, melee don't seem to have concentration, do they?

AC 25 at level 3? That's a bit much unless the thing was hitting like a newborn kitten. A character or NPC should be sacrificing a lot of offense in order to pump their defense to such heights. That, or your DM is pretty vicious. If this is what you can look forward to in the future, I'd definitely go with Arcane Strike.

Ouf DM is the latter :D admirably!

Hideous laughter and Grease did save our skins a few times actually. So tough DM but not impossible.

I had a character who was a sailor. Acquired the habit of selling all the goods at every port, then purchased whatever was necessary for the next leg of the journey. Everything else got spent on hookers and booze.

For some reason, my character became the guy who carried everything the party found but didn't want (or didn't have to go to a specific character). Possibly a combination of my character being the strongest and I was always happy to help carry (even offered to most of the time). Took the group over a year of real time before they realized what I was doing. They finally realized it when we were in a dungeon, and someone remembered that an item we needed was given to my character some time back. When I didn't have it, they started asking questions. :)

Oh, and most of that campaign was spent on land, not at sea. My character just kept the habit.

Edit: btw, I never hid this from the group. They just didn't pay attention. Once they realized what was going on, they started remembering all the times I said I was going to the store followed by going to the bar.

Mine loaned another character 500gp for the sake of buying a new armour where I get his old one in return. Sold it to the same merchant in front of the character for 1,8Kgp. And so I make my money XD

I put together a couple of props for my table: a bag of 1000 coins (pennies). It filled a plastic grocery bag to the size of a large grapefruit, and weighs several pounds. I showed it to the players and let them pass it around "This is what Field Marshall Kroft hands to you (albeit gold pieces)"...we were playing Curse of the Crimson Throne. My point was, that 1000gp is bigger and heavier than you probably imagine.

100gp? I put 100 quarters into a dice pouch. It's a bit heavy, and is about the size of a tangerine.

My advice: Use weight and encumbrance as a kind of logistical puzzle for the players to solve. Piles and piles of coins? Get a wheelbarrow or invest in a handy haversack. Gotta transport a lot of wealth? Buy gems. Found a whole warehouse of trade goods? Run back to town and get inventive with who you hire or sell the contents to.

The idea is that it should be fun to solve weird problems, and sometimes those solutions can lead to new relationships in-game, or opportunities for adventure or trouble. They should help make your game world more real to the players. Don't just hand wave things away unless they threaten to bog down the flow of gameplay.

I presume you used US pennies in that experiment. Copper is a bit less than 2 times less dense than gold ~19.5g/cm^3 (copper something over 8). And Murican 1 cent pieces are actually Zinc...well all copper money is zinc (which is even lighter at 7.something g/cm^3) now a days, with high copper prices they are just copper plated (actually sheet welded but lets not be technical). Your penny bag was almost 3 times lighter than a gold bag would be.

Still hope I can trade for gems. :I Carrying 4Kgp is heavy did convert it into platinum pieces...although I do have a bag of holding I prefer not to put it into the bag...too afraid of our DM putting some divine damage to my bag and me loosing all my gp

Thoranin wrote:

Just about to hit lvl 5 on a Bard. Mostly a buff bard with a bow but well..here is my question.

I have heard far too many say that Deadly aim is the way to go as it grands way more Dmg quicker. But so far our DM has been sending us monsters with AC of over 20. Only a few had 18 and only one had less.

At lvl 5 that is a hard to hit target. (we have a dex fighter that our DM wants to educate on why building a dex fighter that way is bad or at least unhygienic)

Long story short. In this case would you still advise towards the Deadly Aim with its -to att or arcane strike that only gives a straight dmg + without the att - ?

Thanks in advance.

If you're only concerned about damage, your average damage per round is very slightly higher with Deadly Aim than with Arcane Strike. But the difference is so slight (~0.1 point), it's probably not worth factoring into your decision.

Overall: Deadly Aim only hurts you when the attack penalty drops your to-hit chance below 25%. If your to-hit chance is around 30-35%, you'll do about the same amount of damage whether or not you use Deadly Aim. If your to-hit chance is 40% or higher, your average damage is higher with Deadly Aim.

Thanks, well thanks all really.

Will actually take this as the most amazing repond so far for the sake of ending the thread.

I think I might take Arcane Strike in the end. The dmg difference is not that huge and the AC will probably jump up. If, IF I get an extra feat to waste, maybe deadly aim.

Love you all <3

Make a character with a high strength, and then offer to help carry the other character's gold coins to lighten their load. Fail to mention your character's addiction to gambling, drugs, and courtesans.

My character can better you there. Regularly exploits bad merchanting of other characters. Exploits their gold, and has an open love for gambling drink expensive drink and various establishments. :D

Thoranin wrote:

Charlie Bell wrote:

Bard = effectively full BAB due to self buffs. Inspire courage + good hope = +4 attack/damage at 7th level. So even when Deadly Aiming, you probably won't have much trouble hitting past 7th level. Deadly Aim works great for an archer bard with a good Dex. If you have a higher Cha than Dex, then maybe not so much for you.

I thought so as well..until I met Mr.AC25 and his family at lvl 3.

This was what I was going to point out too. The fighter and Rogue are probably only able to do so well because of your help. a +4 attack at lv 7 gives a 9+dex to hit, if their already going up against AC 20 at lv5 they'll be looking at about 50% hit rate against the even higher AC.

OP, it looks like the GM is wanting to make it harder for the melee spec people, so you should try to boost them, go for touch attacks, or target some sort of saving throw. You'll probably have a hard time hitting and dealing much damage comparatively no matter what you do. Also, I'm curious as to what the fighter is doing that the DM want's to show is wrong.

:D We all did a good DEX roll. I ended up rolling decent DEX and CHA. 16 DEX 16 CHA.

So not as good at the dex roughe and the dex ninja and the full dex fighter. DM had to compensate a tiny bit for that char combo I suppose. So even if my DEX is not bad, had to adopt the more buffing position.
My DPR has been badly outclassed in the last session. My 1d6+2 is no match for my friends 1d6+5 + 2d6 sneak +1d4+2 from a cursed item

As for what he does wrong...he made a dex fighter with almost no con or str. (up till lvl 4 he had the least hp in our party) Our sorceress matches him in str. He does not want to wear heavy armour not to loose max dex mod wearing rather light armour than heavy...such things.

Bard = effectively full BAB due to self buffs. Inspire courage + good hope = +4 attack/damage at 7th level. So even when Deadly Aiming, you probably won't have much trouble hitting past 7th level. Deadly Aim works great for an archer bard with a good Dex. If you have a higher Cha than Dex, then maybe not so much for you.

I thought so as well..until I met Mr.AC25 and his family at lvl 3.

Did actually find a Short bow +1 also have a bunch of silver arrows.
But yes I am leaning towards Arcane strike more and more. Will ask my DM if high AC encoutners will keep roaming...but I think they will. Our dex fighter and high dmg high dex rouge hit pretty much all the time at their current crazy way too pro builds. ._.

Any other tips on an archer bard? :I need to catch up to those number-crunching pro builders.

Just about to hit lvl 5 on a Bard. Mostly a buff bard with a bow but well..here is my question.

I have heard far too many say that Deadly aim is the way to go as it grands way more Dmg quicker. But so far our DM has been sending us monsters with AC of over 20. Only a few had 18 and only one had less.

At lvl 5 that is a hard to hit target. (we have a dex fighter that our DM wants to educate on why building a dex fighter that way is bad or at least unhygienic)

Long story short. In this case would you still advise towards the Deadly Aim with its -to att or arcane strike that only gives a straight dmg + without the att - ?

Thanks in advance.

Extradimensional spaces.

Hand Havesack
Bag of holding
Pathfinder Pouch
Portable hole.

Also, your math is off. 5000 gp = 500 pp. 50 coins to the pound, so 500/50=10 lbs.

oops xD Still is a lot of weight. But 10 lbs can still be hauled easily I suppose. :3

I never walk around with gold, I trade them for gems of various sizes and types. They can be traded for goods for 100% of their value without any difficulties.

Thanks :D Sounds like a plan as well.

A bit of a puzzle for a newish player. How does one go about carrying 5000 gp (or more) ? I mean even if all would be platinum pieces it would still weigh 100 lbs.

Any tips really?

And yes, our GM does want us to keep track of the money weight.

It looks like I was mistaken about intent on normal concealment not breaking observation. At least in JJ's opinion, which is enough for me. For everyone's consideration:

JJ wrote:

Concealment gives the rogue (or ANYONE for that matter) the opportunity to make a Stealth check. If she's successful, the person observing her loses track of her, and she can then make a sneak attack or whatever when she's next able to do so.

In that case I shall spank our rouge silly with Blur!

Alottatexttoquote

Thanks, that pretty much is what I wanted to hear.Still wish they'd have a clearer definition...since they over-clarify almost anything else.

Isn't there something that helps a bard use performance to avoid using concentration checks? I seem to remember something about that though not certain where or what it was...

Spell-song feat mayhaps? Uses bardic performance instead of concentration.

I think we are using different terminology, but I believe we agree in regards to intent and end results.

Thanks, that is nice to hear really, considering I have not played long (first PF game that lasts for long) Also I would like to try being a GM at some point for some pretty silly story ideas *-* So being on the right track about this sounds excellent.

In my games, as a GM: Possibly, but only because it's a small creature with Blur passing behind a medium creature; and it would probably depend on some other circumstances as well.

Nice, just to be clear if I rather use one of my first two 2nd lvl spell slot for a Blur or any other fun fun spell.

I absolutely think it could grant a bonus to the Bluff distraction. I also think you would get the Unfavorable Circumstances +2 to Perception DCs against your Stealth check, which would help offset the -10 for using Stealth after a Distraction.

Also sweet, thanks. I do wonder a bit if I can ready a distraction for the rouge after his attack.

According to JJ (admittedly not a rules guy) they use performance rounds, but are not performances in themselves.

As he put it, they require the same pool of resources but are not the same thing. So you may have one of each, performance and masterpiece, active at a time, (but with that interpretation they couldn't be the performance maintained with the spells that carry regular performances).

Otherwise, the ones that last minutes/hours would be useless as soon as you started your normal inspire courage.

As stated in the masterpiece section, you expend the full number of rounds of performance the first round you activate the masterpiece, and then must spend the time listed for each particular masterpiece, and it can be interrupted which means the rounds are lost with no effect.

So, for Vindictive Soliloquy, you would spend 5 rounds the first round, and then spend 5 full rounds performing, if you are interrupted (I would guess that it was meant to be a concentration check in the case of damage, or not being able to take a full round action for some reason, but it isn't stated anywhere) then you lose the 5 rounds with no effect.

Thanks... Interesting, do you happen to have a link to that discussion. In case my GM will want to see as well? Also what DC would you make the concentration be? And would I use the spellcasting concentration or a different performance based one?

Also is there a way to somehow prod the developers to clarify this part a tiny bit. So far the masterpiece seems very loftily written.

Right, not fully clear about this, nor could I find the answers on the forum.

I suppose one cannot use bardic performance while using bardic masterpiece unless one of the two is done with Exquisite Accompaniment. It should work as bardic masterpieces are bardic performances after all.

EDIT: Could Dance of 23 steps be an exception? It only takes a free action, so could I continue a oratory performance while making this little dance?

Now the bit I don't fully understand. Lets say Vindictive Soliloquy. It costs 5 bardic performances and takes 5 full rounds to get the call thunderstorm effect.
In those 5 rounds, do I have to spend a standard action on the performance each round? Is it 5 full round actions and I stand there like a brick tumbling with no more than a 5 foot step? Or may I move around shoot and cast while only maintaining the performance up for 5 rounds?

I mean from my standpoint I'd love the last option the most, otherwise I'd find it useless and I'd be angry at the developers for not thinking of people who like to recite or sing as they cut peoples heads off. :I

Just not fully clear on this matter.

If anyone has an idea I'd be sooo glad.

Hugs and Kisses in advance

Thoranin wrote:

If someone is actively looking for the halfling rouge in a quiet room (Guard cruising for a bruising with the rouge that just hid in the princesses chambers) Then his "observation" can be extended to then listening bit, for he knows the cheeky thing is in there (and the guard has no other pressing matters to attend to other than giving the pretty little thing a struggle snuggle). In this case hiding in the wardrobe grants him visual concealment he can still fidget around and make noise (hit something in the wardrobe) as he draws his weapons, was out of breath from running, has turrets (as all the best rouges do) or similar rot.

I think I agree with your intent, but I would explain it differently. "Observation" is binary in nature. It's either ON and you can't attempt Stealth until you break it, or it's OFF and you can attempt Stealth freely. Now, I absolutely agree that in your scenario the guard may hear the Rogue, or get some other clue that the Rogue is in the Princesses room and walk in. I don't think hearing something in the room automatically means the guard is "observing" the Rogue.

Once the guard is inside the room the Rogue is still able to attempt Stealth inside the wardrobe. The guard rolls Perception and either hears the Rogue or not. If he hears the Rogue at that point he KNOWS the Rogue is in the wardrobe, but he still has to open the wardrobe and actually find the Rogue. If he doesn't hear the Rogue at that point, he will probably take 20 on Pereception in the room and search around until he does see/hear the Rogue. In either case the Rogue is most likely going to recieve that struggle snuggle you mentioned. However, I don't think the Rogue is "observed" until the guard actually opens the wardrobe and finds him. That is not to say the guard can't know where something is without "observing" it. He would know exactly where it is as soon as he hears something in the wardrobe. But the Rogue could still attempt a Stealth check to be quiet. The Stealth check might even be successful. Then the guard opens the wardrobe, removing the Rogue's cover, and sees the Rogue standing in plain view.

Could have worded badly, meant to state that the guard has seen the halfling enter the room, if the guard's perception in this case automatically extends to listening. And the halflings stealth check automatically turns into move silently/stay quiet. Would he be panting in the wardrobe from running he could attempt a stealth check or maybe the GM would add some constitution modifier to keep quiet and stop panting (well in this case its panting so constitution...but already PF's more fluid story mechanic comes into play)

If the rouge would succeed it would buy him time or maybe even the guard might give up entirely after some time. (not enough sold for his time, and the princess is not that pretty after all)

EDIT:To give it a more battle nature we are more familiar with. Would the rouge fail his Stealth against the guard, the guard would not be flat footed against the rouges attacks or if he'd open the wardrobe to spear the little thing, but upon success the rouge could (lets say the wardrobe has a keyhole to peep through) use his full sneak attack on the guard when he would pass by while searching the room.

Two things before I answer:

1. I don't believe the concealment from Blur alone allows for Stealth checks. The last line of the Blur spell states: Opponents that cannot see the subject ignore the spell's effect. So, if you use Stealth you are not seen, if you are not seen your opponent may ignore the effects of Blur, if it ignores the effects of Blur you lose Concealment.

2. People provide "soft cover." Soft cover doesn't allow Stealth. Unless you are in a "crowd."

Surely RAW could not apply here. My question was a bit more towards 1. 2. adding up. He is a blurred speck dashing about.

Throwing in my two pence simply because I have a question/scenario at the end.
Firstly I completely agree with Shadowlord's rule crunching. He seems as someone who understands the rules.

From the link

3. Stealth pulls the majority of it's language from Hide. It still says that if you are "observed" you can't use Stealth. Here is where the change happens, introducing confusion, because PF tried to combine two seperate skills into one. They say: Observing you using any of their senses. That could mean any sense, I agree. They careate that by adding (but typically sight). Why is that? I believe it's a throw back to the Hide/Move Silently skills. HIDE, a purely vision based skill, is the only part of modern Stealth, which required you to break "observation."

I Honestly don't think PF made any confusion. What PF did was take some of the story breaking rule soliciting and move it into roleplay. It forces players to use stealth and perception in more creative way(as much as I hate the word)

In PF to my understanding you may have a far more fluent game-flow.
In the heat of battle the little halfling rouge can find stealth by simply finding something to break the line of sight.

If someone is actively looking for the halfling rouge in a quiet room (Guard cruising for a bruising with the rouge that just hid in the princesses chambers) Then his "observation" can be extended to then listening bit, for he knows the cheeky thing is in there (and the guard has no other pressing matters to attend to other than giving the pretty little thing a struggle snuggle). In this case hiding in the wardrobe grants him visual concealment he can still fidget around and make noise (hit something in the wardrobe) as he draws his weapons, was out of breath from running, has turrets (as all the best rouges do) or similar rot.

In darkness a bat or race that may have ears +n due to racial benefits could still use ear power to observe noise. Or smell someone for that matter or any other way of heat or magnetic location... magnetic stealth could be tricky, though...

This is the benefit I see in PF, it gives some more power to role-playing/game-flow over rule bashing. As all those 4 skills from 3.5 are compressed into just Stealth and Perception and both have more game-flow modifiers than before. Giving more power to the GM's and the PC's to paint the story out rather than taking out their rule books and ordering pizza because this will drag out.

As for the question/scenario:

I play a Bard, my mate is a Halfling rouge with silly high stealth bonuses.
Lets say I cast blur mid battle granting him concealment anyway and he darts out. Mid a nosy battle with an aggressive oratory bardic performance, can the little blurred speck of a halfling rouge use such narrow things as trees or other PC's that really only briefly break line of sight as he darts past to grant him his stealth check?
Or must he stop behind them for the check? (it is mid battle mind you and my bard if flashy...and shouts...quite a bit)

Right, not fully clear about this, nor could I find the answers on the forum.

I suppose one cannot use bardic performance while using bardic masterpiece unless one of the two is done with Exquisite Accompaniment. It should work as bardic masterpieces are bardic performances after all.

Now the bit I don't fully understand. Lets say Vindictive Soliloquy. It costs 5 bardic performances and takes 5 full rounds to get the call thunderstorm effect.
In those 5 rounds, do I have to spend a standard action on the performance each round? Is it 5 full round actions and I stand there like a brick tumbling with no more than a 5 foot step? Or may I move around shoot and cast while only maintaining the performance up for 5 rounds?

I mean from my standpoint I'd love the last option the most, otherwise I'd find it useless and I'd be angry at the developers for not thinking of people who like to recite or sing as they cut peoples heads off. :I

Just not fully clear on this matter.

If anyone has an idea I'd be sooo glad.

Hugs and Kisses in advance

Basically, the first time an opponent casts a spell, ask the GM if you can see them using Material Components, or if they seem to be focusing on any particular object. The GM will probably ask you to make a Spellcraft check. If they are using something, then Pilfering Hand will allow you to make a Disarm or Steal maneuver at range. Disarm vs things they are holding in their hands (holy symbols, bonded wands or staves, etc) and Steal vs things they are wearing (Component pouches, bonded rings or amulets, etc). Losing a bonded object is debilitation for a wizard:

Divine Foci and Spell Component pouches are roughly equivalent for wizards and clerics. While not all spells require material components or a focus, many of the best ones do.
You can also use it to strip opposing casters of meta magic rods or anything else that they are using to enhance spells. I used it on a sorcerer who had a necklace that was allowing him to quicken low level spells for example, severely hampering his offense.
I mostly focus on using it on Casters because they typically have lower CMD's, making it easier to steal their stuff.

I thought CMD only works against hiting/taking it out of their hand and for sealing that I'd need to work against their Perception. But did read the spell again and..this makes the spell far more awesome *-* Shall be put in my list of fun fun junk.

As for later I did plan on Sculpt sound for various reasons (including shuting up our sorceress from time to time as our alighnments clash all the time) How many Wizard and Sorcerer spells don't use Verbal components? How useful is this against grumpy wizards that roam the lands?

EDIT: I know I could simply search for them, but sadly I didn't find any page that lets me filter spells by the components in use.

PS also fixed one of my many typos.

You can't apply Keen to bows. Silly.

It's not me who did, it's the DM who did, and his responce was "Deal with it"

No you can not put a bag of holding inside a haversack. You would cause bad things to happen.

I found this

"Extradimensional Spaces

A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions."

And from here I'm not sure it's not fully clear. In a way it seems like puting a BH into the HHH just makes it impossible to open. Then again I could be wrong. :I