Talon881's page

So a player wants to go diving into the planets core, and see if its all a tangle of ley lines.

Did a chunk of research and have not found anything that says one way or another, so just checking here to see if anyone had answers on the subject.

My initial thought is that it is not, that the ley lines weave in and out between the planes, only intersecting at random points (thus keeping the lines rare and valuable).

Short version: A player is wanting to have the +20 circumstance bonus from Display of wisdom: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/mythic/mythic-heroes/#Dis play_of_Wisdom_Su

And this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/inexplicable-luck-human/

Be used on the profession check he makes on his downtime building result.

As far as I can tell, the time limit on these is too short to be used, considering both use the 'single check', and as I understand it downtime is over the course of a day and uses several checks?

Is this correct, or is it another of the 'DM ruling' things?

Pretty much what it says on the tin.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hardening/

It says it is a permanent effect, but is there anything in the rules that states that a permanent spell cannot be applied more than once?

so this rule is from Purple Duck Games.

Commentary
The crux of the problem, besides the third party rules, is how Timeworn is treated in the rules/game model; as a Condition (see Memory of Function:T7). That means healing and regeneration effects won't work as you have to remove the Condition.
Purple Duck Publisher alluded to a cure but did not come out and directly say that. There could be copyright issues involved.
Paizo's Technology Guide is what it is. The Technologist Feat is required to use Skills on the items in it. I don't think it is wise to allow magic to skirt that particular requirement especially where skill-like processes are involved (see spell above). As an example the spell Recharge (Battery) {a benign spell that extends the use of tech items} was in an Org Play Scenario, a kerfuffle ensued and it was effectively banned.

Aaaah, so there is a precedent for things like this interacting. Fair enough then, thanks for the help!

Timeworn

Quote:

Kinetic Healer

With a touch, you can heal a willing living creature of an amount of damage equal to your kinetic blast’s damage.

Even replacing "living creature" with "object" you only cure hit points of damage, not other effects.

The Timeworn condition isn't linked to hit point loss, so it can't be "cured" by Kinetic healer.

True. However, regeneration is supposed to restore broken or missing parts back to the affected person.

In this case, regeneration could count as fixing the timeworn state, as it is supposed to be quite literally, missing parts, things not in their correct position (like bones, nerves, etc), which regeneration does technically restore.

it's probably best to provide links to the rules in question as there is usually some class context along with publication history.

talent:Kinetic Healer
is your rule in AoN or another publisher's rule?

Fair point, but yes, that would be the one.

Though to be fair, the talentns I listed that affect the healer are from the Kineticists of Porphyra I-IV and the Legendary Kineticists I-II.

Had this discussion the other night, and wanted to get some takes on it.

Can the timeworn condition be dealt with using the following kineticist abilities?

Regressive Healing
Element(s) time; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 1
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

You know how to reverse the wear of time on creatures and objects alike. This works as kinetic healer except you can also use it on constructs and non-magical objects, although they may not accept burn from this wild talent.

----

Kinetic Regeneration
Elements(s) time, viscera or water; Type utility (Su); Level 6; Burn —
Prerequisite(s) kinetic healer or regressive healer

When you use the kinetic healer or regressive healer utility wild talent, it is considered the regeneration spell for what it can heal.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you clarify or give an example?

Well, if a creature is burrowed, and tremorsense is the only ability that works underground, as from what I understand every other sense requires line of effect and is usually stopped by barriers (though I know some are not, I think lifesense isnt?), then that would mean that a burrowing creature cannot do the following.

See upcoming pockets of 'Not earth', they would have no ability to determine if the ground is ending as they race for a cliff since they do not detect the lack of earth ahead of them. They could not avoid emerging into underground lava/water/open air.

If they go too far down and get disoriented, they wouldnt know which way is up (Though there are easy ways to fix this, but the sense itself wouldnt allow them to figure it out). If a creature that only had tremorsense (like I believe for a time earth elementals were listed as only having tremorsense, though that might well be me missremembering there), then they wouldnt be able to know where stairs, doorways, ramps, etc etc. Incapable of navigating on the surface to fight adventurers.

In order for a creature to be able to navigate underground, it MUST be able to determine what is in its path and what is around it. Even if its something as simple as 'I am not getting returning pings from this location, it must be empty space, therefore I will not run into it at full speed' or 'Im getting a different set of vibrations here, there is alot of movement from running water/lava, avoid.'

Or in the case of a cliff 'Ah, the entire area at the edge of my sense has gone black. There is no earth there.' Would help, otherwise we could Tremors the creature that is burrow charging.

However, this naturally means that taking that to the logical position is that such a creature would be able to notice openings in the area around it, so thus it would also be able to notice hidden doors and passages, or 'Hey, this wall here is only three feet thick, and then it opens up into a twenty foot chamber on the other side', etc etc. Because if you have vibrational senses strong enough to detect the vibrations caused by a non-moving creature between THIRTY or SIXTY feet away, being able to notice openings and the general topography seems like a easier task.

However, this is a DM territory, and as you said, its unlikely to get any real notice, its just going to be another 'This sense was not entirely thought out, DM adjudication required.'

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Talon881 wrote:

1: Does a creature with tremorsense have the ability to know what the local area around it is like? Examples: 'There are stairs here. There is a lamppost here. There is a table here. There are utensils on the table here. The floor goes up/down.'

No, but extremely heightened senses like somatosensations for Blindsight would do that, but not Tremorsense. Tremorsense senses vibrations when someone contacts the ground and causes a vibration, just like Blindsense senses an occupied space in open air. Blindsight provides an actual 3D-mapping of the environment, but Blindsense would not. Blindsense is powerful, it is not quite as powerful as Blindsight. Both Blindsense and Blindsight are negated in a vacuum, and neither can be used across planes, but Blindsight can be used underwater (it is debatable that Blindsense can be used underwater-- I would argue in favor that it is).

The term somatosensation (or somatosensory senses) is an all encompassing term which includes the sub-categories of mechanoreception (vibration, pressure, discriminatory touch), thermoreception (temperature), nociception (pain), equilibrioception (balance) and proprioception (sense of positioning and movement). <---- Btw, none of these are an actual thing in Pathfinder, these are scientific terms-- Pathfinder rolls all of these somatosensations into "Blindsight", and specifically calls out that Blindsight includes but isn't limited to: "Sensitivity to Vibrations", "Acute Scent", "Keen Hearing", and "Echolocation". And some form of Blindsight is what would be required for 3D-mapping of an area. Not only would you be able to see stairs, lamp posts, walls, and horse carriages, but you'd also be able to see flying/swimming enemies.

^------ I should clarify this a bit more with regards to your specific questions.

In terms of being able to use Blindsight to 3-D map an area, generally speaking, you would need to physically be in that area in order to 3-D map it. What I...

So, basically yes, anything underground with or without tremorsense (regardless of the means by which they move through the earth) are completely unaware of their surroundings save for the location of creatures on the surface.

Since this has come up, I am hoping to get some manner of official response, but I also know this is likely to fall into 'DM call', but I shall try none the less.

Tremorsense (Ex)
A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground. Aquatic creatures with tremorsense can also sense the location of creatures moving through water. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text.

Now, the questions:

1: Does a creature with tremorsense have the ability to know what the local area around it is like? Examples: 'There are stairs here. There is a lamppost here. There is a table here. There are utensils on the table here. The floor goes up/down.'

2: Does a creature using tremorsense know if there are open spaces underground within its range? Would it notice a pocket of air or water or lava or whatnot in the ground? Would it notice a chest, or a corpse? Tree roots?

3: Would it notice secret tunnels or passages because the space behind those doors is open, but covered up by the wall/bookshelf?

4: Would it be able to figure out the way a maze turns within its range by noting when there is open space and when there is not?

Or are earth elementals and other such entities basically completely blind while burrowing and only able to detect creatures on the surface?