Arcane Addict wrote:
I'd like to be clever or graceful as I ask the inevitable question, it feels appropriate to do so. I simply don't think I can. I've agonized over it ever since I've read the contents of Kirthfinder, as linked to in the very first post, several months ago. I cannot wait any longer for that creative spark of genius. The pressure to perform built up to the point, now, where I realized that if I didn't act on it, soon I wouldn't be able to express it at all, my desire to possess having reduced me to a gibbering, confusing shell of a man. I can feel it coming, closing in on me. I need salvation, peace of mind, desperately, now, before it is too late. Please, I beg of you, will you save me from myself? Will you send me an updated version?
May you find salvation in the email sent.
I have a question about Type-less penalties, are they a thing? I know bonuses must have a type but i'm not sure if this also extends to penalties as well.
IIRC, all penalties listed in Kirthfinder are typed as well. If I'm wrong, please post the type-less entry.
I second giving a free Leadership feat to every major villain. And I like that the 5th ed. DMG provides a good outline for morale saves. I'll be using that for figuring out when the cohorts would run towards their boss. I'd finally have an excuse to nail down rules for chase scenes.
I would love an update too.
My group prefers pencils and paper character sheets too. If I were to use a digital format, it'd be for Fantasy Grounds on Steam. I'm fairly certain the file types for that simulator aren't compatible with Google Drive.
As for Excel formulas, my own personal number crunching (I'm looking at you, Leadership feat.) has taught me
Could I have an updated copy of Kirthfinder?
I was only worried about how weapon proficiency applied to spells when a class feature actually checks for proficiency level, and I think only the Monk has such features. Making a weapon category just for that would've been a formality.
I wasn't aware Orb spells all had splash damage.
For iterative attack spells, I've been using Eldritch Blast premodified with Measured Spell [-1 level] + Quicken Spell [Standard to Swift; +2 levels, -1 synergy]. 1d6 + 1/2 level seemed reasonable for what would be a bloodline-specific weapon.
The grenade stuff is my handiwork. My DM challenged me to make a holy grenade launcher. He didn't think I'd find a way without munchkining.
Firearms could utilize multiple attacks if you add on either Ray Splitting or Quicken Spell [Attack action].
As for firearms utilizing [Strike] feats... Would it be reasonable to take the Eldritch Blast's 'Because it requires an attack roll, you can apply feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and ranged [Strike] feats' clause and apply it to Ray of Frost?
Examples of Mundane Items Built Using Spells wrote:
Firearms have been integrated, but I forget what the formula is for ammo magazines.
From the Introduction chapter:
Rationale & Applicability wrote:
These house rules are not intended for general use. Indeed, for most groups, the Core rules are far superior in many respects. In creating these house rules, there were several design goals which, if not actually achieved, were at least strived for; any failure to attain them is mine. The major goals, and cautions for use, are summarized below.
Base classes are more versatile, filling a variety of concepts, making prestige classes or “archetypes” less important. Multiclass options (see “Class Synergy Features” below) are intended to allow multiclassing of casters as well as martial characters, in nearly limitless combinations. Finally, the rules are extremely mechanically “crunchy,” geared towards players who especially enjoy the various tasks associated with creating or “leveling up” a character. If your group just wants to roll up characters and play, then these house rules are not for you; sticking with the core Pathfinder game (or some other system) is recommended. Likewise, if you consider multiclassing to be “cheesy,” you will doubtless intensely dislike these house rules.
Not only in combat (e.g., changing of casting rules), but in terms of narrative power: fighters, rogues, etc. are more versatile, and receive class features enabling them to do more than simply fight and disarm traps. The ranger regains his “schtick” as a tracker, scout, locator, and guide―even across the planes. As long as high-level casters can travel to Heaven at will and stop time, there will never be a total balance, but our hope is that the number of levels of which all classes are playable has been expanded upwards a bit. If you, personally, believe that there is no martial-caster disparity in the core rules, then these house rules are not for you; please delete and/or shred your copy.
Fewer “Timmy” Cards:
As much as possible, obviously good or extremely substandard options are obtained automatically, without needing to decide whether to spend a limited resource (feat, talent, etc.) on a “tax” option or on something interesting but sub-par. That means providing bonus skill ranks (to avoid “skill taxes”) and expanded bundling of skills; selective “beefing up” or “nerfing” of talents and feats, and so on. In addition, many feats scale with skill ranks or base attack bonus, so as to remain useful throughout the character’s career rather than becoming obsolescent at some point.
In a number of cases, a seemingly bizarre rules change has been implemented as a “nod” to previous editions, especially 1e AD&D. Overall, those rules were mechanically a mess, but they did provide a certain type of experience that these rules use as a reference.
Considerable creative power is intentionally shifted from the hands of the “DM” or “GM” to those of the players. Accordingly, the person running the game is now termed a “referee” instead, in order to focus on this shift in role. Custom races, design of personal magic items, expanded leadership options in these rules all very intentionally contribute to player empowerment. If you believe the “GM” should wield absolute authority and exercise sole creative power, stop reading now and delete/burn/shred your copy of these rules. These rules assume that the referee’s job is to design and run encounters, and to impartially facilitate the rules during play. His or her job is not to railroad the adventure, “fix” the rules by fiat, and so on. This implies a correspondingly high level of responsibility required of the players not to intentionally disrupt play or “break the game.”
Uses have been rebalanced so that there are fewer obvious “dump stats” (particularly Charisma).
In many ways, a d20 + modifier task resolution system breaks down very quickly when the disparity of modifiers becomes too great. However, abandoning the core d20 mechanic is beyond the scope of these house rules, so the problem noted above becomes a something of a necessary evil. In order to ameliorate this, some “full stop” options are included in order to nullify part of a numerically overwhelming advantage. For example, at low levels AC can be “jacked up” to the point where a target is essentially impervious to attacks except on a natural 20; however, a number of feats and talents are included that potentially allow an attacker to ignore armor bonuses, insight bonuses, deflection bonuses, etc. This in no way eliminates potential disparities, but it re-introduces an element of risk to investing in any “obviously overpowered” ability or feature.
My personal favorite change is characters are allowed to re-flavor any mechanics/abilities they make use of in order to fit their character concept. Earlier in this thread, either Kirth or TriOmegaZero mentioned a duelist character and a holy warrior character who both used Barbarian Rage for their 'battle focus' or 'divine empowerment.'
A base spell with caster level equal to the dragon's HD, d10 damage, and pretty far range? I'm more keen on using a solution similar to what the ruleset already has for players begging to play as a Lich at level 1.
"A level 1 Lich? Sure. I'll allow it, but all the abilities get toned down so that they're appropriate for a level 1 character. *Points them to the Deathwalker Specialist Wizard.*
So in the case of breath weapons, I'd start with finding all the metamagics needed to turn an Eldritch Blast into your ideal breath weapon (at least Quicken Spell [attack action], Magnify Spell, and Reach Spell by my understanding). And either add them to the list of available bonus feats for Draconic bloodline (less likely to disrupt game balance), or somehow work them into Improved/Greater Blast (more likely to disrupt game balance).
On a somewhat related note, after reading through the "What are your favorite things in 5th edition?" thread, I've been pondering the implications of converting all the Reserve feats into cantrips, and then having all cantrips scale to the caster's highest spell level with no cap. Heightening Eldritch Blast would then result in the 'caster level equal to the HD' effect you're looking for.
Earlier in this thread we went over examples of mundane items built using spells. Going over that bit again, I took note of this entry:
this thread wrote:
Holy Water: Cure light wounds (1st) + Planar Channeling (+0 levels) + Splash Evocation (+0 levels) = 1st level; damage on a hit is 1d8 + 1, rather than 2d4.
What rules do/can we follow for adding feats onto the effects of spells?
Also, if say a player wanted to replicate the X-Men character Magneto. Would it be reasonable for them to learn spells pre-modified with Creature-Specific Spell (metal; -2 levels)?
As another tangent to reformatting/polishing the rule-set yet again, Kirth, at one point you mentioned wanting to make a classless system. Would it be feasible to turn Kirthfinder into such a system if we increased all the values on the numen table by X amount and gave appropriate numen values to all the various class features?
I know all class features that aren't already replicated by feats should be more expensive than feats, but I have no idea what to do about class spell lists and racial abilities.
Spending a full round during an attack is called 'Full-Attack Action', and it uses the base attack granted for free, and any bonus attacks granted under the following conditions, consuming Standard and Move actions, allowing only for a Swift or 5-foot-step.
Tactical Movement, also in the Introduction chapter, allows for a half-move action on the same round as a full-attack action.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
It might be interesting to treat Iterative Blast as Innate Metamagic (Ray Splitting), and see where that leads us.
That approach would hopefully keep anyone else from having similar confusion as I had pages ago on how Mystic Blast behaves in relation to SLAs and weapons.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
I'm not really a huge fan of the "spell level = 1 + 1/x levels" thing -- I'd rather have the spell level increase organically through innate metamagic, if that could be done.
That's also my preference for Improved Blast/Innate Metamagic. Allow Innate Metamagic to increase the level of the spell/SLA for heightening spell effect caps, interacting with other spells, and DCs if it's applied to a spell (not SLA).
Kirth Gersen wrote:
So if I'm reading that right, the given abilities would be organized as such?:
I. Iterative Blast, Ray-Splitting +6
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Gaining multiple [Strike] effects in a single round would be still a fourth tier, in a sense. Maybe fold that into the Striking Mastery feat?
As a power gamer, if I was really wanting to get multiple [Strike] effects to go off in a single round, the character would be dual-wielding scimitars, flank with someone for the Sneak Attack synergy, and have the feats Two-Weapon Strike and Critical Focus just to be thorough.
Skill focus cannot help (due to the explicit limitation), though feat mastery could.
Oh, Skill Focus' paragraph on 'virtual ranks' seems to have disappeared in this version. Well, this is embarrassing.
It would be the same difference between directly applying metamagic feats to a spell while preparation and taking Innate Metamagic [Same spell; same effect]. Overlapping in the rules is something we unnecessarily shy away from.
I guess that's enough of a difference. Though with that distinction, Improved Mystic Blast sounds like something I'd only use for sorcerer bloodlines. And since that was the whole point, good idea.
Note, Tahlreth, that in my version of Eldritch Blast, the applications of metamagic feats (without Innate Metamagic) are constantly active; a Boreal Bloodline sorcerer's Mystic (or Eldritch) Blast will always have the Flash Frost metamagic applied, and not have it as 3/day as the normal sorcerer would.
A normal Boreal bloodline sorcerer gets Improved Blast [Evocation, Flash Frost] at level 8. The same level said sorcerer gains enough bonus ranks in Concentration for Innate Metamagic [Mystic Blast; Evocation, Flash Frost] to be usable at-will instead of only 3/day.
I assumed that the maximum effective spell level limitation kept it from getting out of hand--but balance is a question we ask after we finish writing an ability, no?
I'm pretty certain 3/day for 6th-9th-level SLAs, and at-will SLAs capping at 5th-level is perfectly reasonable. Now if the 9th-level ones should be restricted to 1/day, I'll accept a ref's judgement on that one. Worse case scenario, someone clever picks up Skill Focus [Concentration], raising their at-will SLA cap to 7th-level. Considering they'd reach that at level 19 at the earliest (level 18 if they pick up Feat Mastery [Skill Focus (Concentration)]), I'd treat it as a nifty multi-classing-compatible capstone feature.
Very astute; such was my intention before. Should we introduce an [Improved Mystic Blast] feat, and [Greater Mystic Blast] feat?
I'm curious to see what the differences would be between Improved Mystic Blast, and Innate Metamagic [Mystic Blast; (metamagic effect)].
Oh, I meant the effective spell-level adjustments for each blast improvements each individual bloodline grants. Sorry I didn't specify.
I would have assumed that DCs are based on comparable class abilities; 10 + 1/2 Sorcerer level + Charisma, not the normal (much weaker) formula existing in the rules; DC 10 + level of spell + your Charisma modifier.
Ah, right. I was referring to using Innate Metamagic on actual spells when I said that. For Innate Metamagic on SLAs, you're correct.
Regardless, [Strike] feats treat the blast as a normal melee or ranged attack, as it does touch spells. I don't see why it would help, either.
Not how [Strike] feats treat the blast. The second paragraph of Improved Blast says the improvement is treated as a [Strike] effect. I'd opt for removing that paragraph because Improved Blast is built off of Innate Metamagic, which already has a frequency of use limitation. If that's combined with the use limitations of [Strike] effects, Strike Mastery would practically be a feat tax. Unless I'm reading that paragraph wrong.
Good point; though this is an option to those who are not sorcerers in any rate, as their Blasts would remain as level 1 effects. I would remove it, actually.
I'm in favour of moving the SLA-heightening/metamagic-cap from the class features over to the feats the class features are based on. That way, anyone who picks them up benefit, sorcerers just get them for free.
All in all, I would assume that the only tie Eldritch (or Mystic) Blast has with spellcasting at a whole is that it depends on an empty slot (or reserve) to cast it, and the scaling feature with the highest-level spell.
The funny part is, spell slots aren't exclusive to spellcasting ability.
Ch.6 Equipment - A: Designing Custom Items - Other wrote:
Power Conduits: For when you just can’t get enough spell slots, a personal item might serve as a conduit for raw magical power from the plane of your deity, from a circle of stones at the confluence of ley lines, or whatever. A power conduit provides you with additional “spells per day” slots (Spellcasting Table 2). This costs 2,000 numen x the maximum level of spell slots x the spell capacity level. For example, a 7th level sorcerer could have an item that draws additional magical power, adding six 1st level and three 2nd level spell slots to his total, for 16,000 numen total (2,000 x 2 x 4). Note that there is no reason a fighter cannot take the Arcane Bond feat, choose a wand as a bonded item, and enhance it with this ability in order to power it.
'Usable 3 + your spellcasting attribute/day...' Is Mystic Blast a supernatural ability now? Otherwise, I'd definitely rather spend a feat on Magical Talent than on Mystic Blast.
Before I'd be comfortable with replacing my damage type chooser for Mystic Blast with what you've just submitted, I'd have to see the metamagic spell-level adjustments for the sorcerer's Improved Blast abilities.
'Count the blast as spell level 1 + 1/5 caster levels.' Hmm... Another approach would be to let Innate Metamagic increase the spell level, but only for DCs and heightening, not spell slot expended. I'm not sure if removing the [Strike] effect treatment from the sorcerer's Improved Blast would help.
Now if Innate Metamagic heightens and increases the spell DC, and Improved Blast is already a (slightly modified) bonus Innate Metamagic feat, there wouldn't be a need to adjust the [effective spell level/spell level cap] of Mystic Blast (or any other spell-like ability). I also have no idea how your Mystic Blast's spell-level-scaling works with the sorcerer Improved Blast's +1 to max spell level.
For the Illusionist's Shadow Illusion, I'm confused on what the problem is. Arrius is making it sound like clarification is needed (I'm guessing clarification on limitations of use/flexibility, and on interaction). Yet Kirth is making it sound like there's a balance issue.
For clarification, I'd side with Arrius on having Shadow Illusion follow the same interaction rules as Shadow Conjuration/Evocation (interaction is the same as the real thing, except any numbers are reduced to % amount). But I'm not sure if the figments really need to be treated as if 1 level lower considering the balance side.
For the balance issue, I don't see what the problem is.
For Leadership, have either of you checked the CR scaling for having a cohort and retainers be as high-leveled as what Leadership allows for? I've been plugging the formula into Excel, and the scaling looks pretty linear to me. But it's possible I could be plugging numbers in wrong...
My at-will healing is Magical Talent + Feat Mastery &/or Skill Focus (Concentration). I'm guessing that's what you meant by Magical Array.
For Flurry of Blows, I followed your suggestion on class-feat synergy effects and moved Flurry of Blows to the monk's base proficiencies.
I can picture it now: "Leadership, it's not just a feat. It's a quest reward!"
Considering the general > lieutenants > grunts part, the general can easily have the lieutenants be his cohorts. And since there's nothing stopping cohorts from picking up the Leadership feat themselves, the lieutenants then have the grunts be their cohorts. I think it's a nice way to represent relative rank in virtually any kind of hierarchy.
On Spells, Metamagic, and Mystic Blast:
I appreciate these additional metamagics purely for replicating/breaking down published spells. Measured Spell might need a tidbit pointing out the +1 scaling is ontop of the base 1d6.
I am of the opinion that a Mystic Blast should not be able to inflict status penalties like [Fatigued] (since it can be done at will), except when tied to a times/day mechanic. However, there is no adequate argument I can make against a player who wishes to design a blast such as this. Perhaps we should incorporate saves as well to avoid exploitation.
I'm pretty sure whatever ability that's adding the [Fatigued] effect to the Mystic Blast also allows a saving throw.
I am kind of not fond of infinite healing. I don’t use spell slots, as I previously mentioned, so it is less of a concern for me. Maybe we should add a perameter to prevent abuse here, or discard the spell entirely and refer to GM fiat to prevent such abuse.
There's already a similar at-will healing ability possible in Kirthfinder. If one of my party members actually bothers picking it up, I make them lose interest in abusing it by asking, "Do you really want to spend all of combat being the heal-fountain?"
For my personal use, I'm keeping the name Eldritch Blast instead of renaming it to Mystic Blast. Less editing that way. :P
On Classes, Skills, and Feats:
The exploding from Leadership was meant to be a reference to Skill Focus adding a multiplier to the Diplomacy Bonus, as opposed to Feat Mastery adding a static bonus to the Diplomacy Bonus.
Additional Favored Terrain says the bonus increases in increments of 2.
On Flurry of Blows:
During the recent lull in this discussion, I was editing all the errata I could into my copy/version of the houserules. Amidst that, I merged the Flurry of Blows advanced fighter talent with the monk's Flurry, and moved it to the monk's Armor and Weapon Proficiency, right after the Note about "special monk weapons":
Ch 3 Classes > Monk > Proficiencies wrote:
Given that the maneuvers listed here can be used as attack actions without Flurry, I'm hesitant to have Flurry cost so much more than the Two-Weapon Versatility feat. Give or take performing a Flurry with a ranged weapon, all the power-gamey differences I can find between Flurry and TWV are simply different character-building resources being spent on the same end result.
I'd say yes, only because it's not as explosive as applying Skill Focus [Diplomacy/pick a flavor] to Leadership.
Now as for applying both, I think they'd stack, but they don't count each other for determining how big their bonuses are. I guess that would mean Feat Mastery gets applied after Skill Focus would.
1. A) I've been treating that Arcane bloodline/Magus wudan power as swappable known spells.
2. You're giving up Wizard spellcasting so that your Wizard levels provide synergy to your Sorcerer spellcasting. That means your spellcasting attribute (for bonus spells and the like) is Charisma.
3. +0 level metamagic feats are already at-will with spontaneous casting. If you have Rapid Metamagic, Metamagic Mastery is only useful for the spell level adjustment.
The Egg of Coot wrote:
The math here looks funny. Shouldn't the formula here be (%)^2 x 12 so the prices work out?
On another topic, I see with Bane Spell, the specific effect is chosen when the spell is modified, whether prepared or spontaneously cast. And with the Improve Skill spell, the specific effect is apparently chosen when the spell is learned. What about the Damage Attribute spell and the Polymorph spell; is the specific effect chosen when the spell is learned, or when the spell is prepared/spontaneously cast?
Fighter Talents: Thicket of Blades wrote:
Whack out the second Source entry here too?
@ Ragnarok Aeon -- sending now.