Kirthfinder - World of Warriorcraft Houserules


Homebrew and House Rules

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Great, thanks for the fast response. Also is the resistance to fire/cold 5x the f.t bonus? Because wouldn't that be like 10/fire damage ?


Resistance 10 at a +2 bonus, resistance 20 at +4, etc.


It has been a good long time, but my group would love updated rules.
This mod is awesome and we have been using it for years.

Love how all class's have a real role.

Anyway, love updated rules

spoiler:
caimbuel@gmail.com


Caimbuel wrote:

It has been a good long time, but my group would love updated rules.

This mod is awesome and we have been using it for years.

Love how all class's have a real role.

Anyway, love updated rules

Sent


Tahlreth wrote:
Caimbuel wrote:

It has been a good long time, but my group would love updated rules.

This mod is awesome and we have been using it for years.

Love how all class's have a real role.

Anyway, love updated rules

Sent

Do you have updated rules for this ? Also how do these class stack up to gesalt characters, I'm asking for balancing reasons, my table is half into gesalt and half into kirthfinder.


Depends. For the most part, Kirthfinder martials are a lot better, and multiclassing works more smoothly for casters. So if you use core rules classes and play gestalt, anything with a full caster component will still run roughshod over everyone else, and anyone with a martial component will still be a lot weaker in that regard, and the lack of scaling feats will hurt the martials even more.

  • A gestalt barbarian/paladin or fighter/rogue will be very weak compared to any Kirthfinder character, in the long run.
  • A gestalt wizard/cleric will still be vastly better than any Kirthfinder character of any class(es).
  • A kirthfinder fighter 4/wizard 4 will be better at everything than a core rules (non-gestalt) fighter 4/wizard 4.
  • Compared to a gestalt fighter 8/wizard 8, the Kirthfinder fighter 4/wizard 4 will be slightly better at fighting overall (BAB +6 rather than +8, but with enough class features to make up for it) and not nearly as good at casting (CL 6th instead of 8th).


  • Kirth Gersen wrote:

    Depends. For the most part, Kirthfinder martials are a lot better, and multiclassing works more smoothly for casters. So if you use core rules classes and play gestalt, anything with a full caster component will still run roughshod over everyone else, and anyone with a martial component will still be a lot weaker in that regard, and the lack of scaling feats will hurt the martials even more.

  • A gestalt barbarian/paladin or fighter/rogue will be very weak compared to any Kirthfinder character, in the long run.
  • A gestalt wizard/cleric will still be vastly better than any Kirthfinder character of any class(es).
  • A kirthfinder fighter 4/wizard 4 will be better at everything than a core rules (non-gestalt) fighter 4/wizard 4.
  • Compared to a gestalt fighter 8/wizard 8, the Kirthfinder fighter 4/wizard 4 will be slightly better at fighting overall (BAB +6 rather than +8, but with enough class features to make up for it) and not nearly as good at casting (CL 6th instead of 8th).
  • So would you say a barbarian/druid 16 gesalt would be more powerful than a ranger 11/5 druid from krithfinder?


    Lastoutkast wrote:
    So would you say a barbarian/druid 16 gesalt would be more powerful than a ranger 11/5 druid from krithfinder?

    Much, much, much more powerful, because he's got 16 levels of spellcasting potential to your 10. (Also, your BAB is only +14, so you're not getting the top tier of benefits from most of your scaling Kirthfinder combat feats.)

    Anything gestalt that has full casting will always be more powerful than any multiclass combination in any other system.


    I had a question about the Command undead feat. Does it grant the necromancer the ability to obtain a Cohort in addition to the followers he can raise/attract/convert like normal leadership?


    Firewarrior44 wrote:
    I had a question about the Command undead feat. Does it grant the necromancer the ability to obtain a Cohort in addition to the followers he can raise/attract/convert like normal leadership?

    Yep. Command Undead is how you get a skeleton warrior cohort, in these rules.


    I have a question about the Stone incarnate's Rock Throwing ability.

    Stone Incarnate wrote:
    Rock Throwing (Su, Ex): You gain the eldritch blast ability of a sorcerer with the Elemental Earth bloodline, including the improved blast and greater blast improvements. In addition...
    All other Blast Incarnates wrote:
    Ray of Fire [Reserve] (Sp): This functions exactly as the eldritch blast ability of a battle sorcerer with the elemental fire bloodline, including the improved blast and greater blast enhancements, iterative attack use, and powerful blast ability.

    The Stone incarnate version is missing the line about iterative attacks. Is this intentional as it Stone also grants rock throwing or is it an oversight?


    Question:

    The Flame mystery for Incarnates gives the
    "Class Skills: Add Acrobatics, Climb, and Perform to your list of class skills."

    As Climb is part of the Acrobatics skill, should they get something else?


    Fluffylove wrote:
    As Climb is part of the Acrobatics skill, should they get something else?

    Climb is part of the Athletics skill -- they should get that. I'll try and remember to double-check the master document when I get home.


    Hello! I've gotten a few different versions of this in the last few years, I was just wondering when the most recent update happened to see if I need to update as well :) Thanks!
    Edit
    I double-checked, and the version I have now is from last July. I don't suppose you have an official change-log somewhere . . .


    Not quite a Changelog but up to date errata and last released date can be found here.


    So I noticed that Familiars gain hit dice. Do they also gain all the perks that come with that? Namely feats and stat increases?


    Firewarrior44 wrote:
    So I noticed that Familiars gain hit dice. Do they also gain all the perks that come with that? Namely feats and stat increases?

    Yep. Although, ultimately, I'd like to roll familiars into the Thaumaturgist feat, and they'd be treated like any other planar bound beings.


    Kirth, did you make any custom spells with your ruleset that you've shared and/or approved to play in your homegames?
    Have any examples, if you did?


    Can I get a copy of the rules please?

    Spoiler:
    federico_maggini@live.it

    Thanks


    Federebus wrote:
    Can I get a copy of the rules please?

    Sent.


    This weekend, I wiped out favored class bonuses.

    I never liked them; they're fiddly, annoying, and counterproductive. I WANT people to multiclass, so as to fulfill whatever type of character they envision. Also, favored class bonuses represented an expendable sub-system and unnecessarily added to the page count. So there were a lot of reasons to ditch them, and not a whole lot of reasons to keep them.

    For most of the racial enmity stuff in Ch 2, I made a new racial feat option, providing a +2 favored enemy bonus, instead. Stability became an optional trait providing a +4 racial bonus to CMD. Most of the other ones I didn't miss at all.


    Fair enough. Pretty ambivalent to them myself.


    I know that Lemmy has a single page in his house-rules devoted to universal favoured class bonuses, so he clearly didn't like them that much either.


    The doc is updated? Please sent me a copy!

    Spoiler:
    hypermetalsonic@gmail.com


    It hasn't been (officially) updated since 2013


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    It hasn't been (officially) updated since 2013

    Why you do it with us, Kirth? :(


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    The Egg of Coot wrote:

    This weekend, I wiped out favored class bonuses.

    I never liked them; they're fiddly, annoying, and counterproductive. I WANT people to multiclass, so as to fulfill whatever type of character they envision. Also, favored class bonuses represented an expendable sub-system and unnecessarily added to the page count. So there were a lot of reasons to ditch them, and not a whole lot of reasons to keep them.

    Nice. They were fine when it was just an extra point to HP or a skill, but it's grown to the point where it's just arbitrary complexity. And agreed, it doesn't make much sense when KF is a lot more multicass-friendly than PF is.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    It hasn't been (officially) updated since 2013

    Correction: Spring 2014. Sorry, dementia setting in!

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Only just now?


    You're asking the guy with memory issues to remember when those issues set in?

    Liberty's Edge

    Ok, so I logged on to see where this was, if there's an updated, current version, I'd like a copy.

    I'm sure someone here has my email, if not, send me a PM. ;-)


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Hey Derek, I sent you the latest copy I have. This is the copy I was sent back in October of 2014, and to my knowledge is the latest published copy.


    3 people marked this as a favorite.

    Yeah, nothing's been officially updated in over a year. Coincidentally -- or not -- Baby Gersen is just over a year old. Go figure!

    Grand Lodge

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Has anyone ever seen Baby Gersen and Kirthfinder in the same room together? Suspicious...

    Dark Archive

    Sighs, there is a lot to enjoy or at least respect with this though I can't agree with all the rules made within. It is because if this that I have yet to commit or even try Kirthfinder because some of the rules made/created I disagree with. Yet it says within you need to commit to all the rules if you are to use it... which is my dilemma.

    What to do, what to do that is the question.

    Grand Lodge

    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    JonathonWilder wrote:
    What to do, what to do that is the question.

    Change the rules you don't like, playtest them, and play.

    Dark Archive

    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    JonathonWilder wrote:
    What to do, what to do that is the question.
    Change the rules you don't like, playtest them, and play.

    Really? I didn't know I was allowed to, I thought I needed to play Kirthfinder 'as is'.


    So this is the famed Kirthfinder ruleset! I wonder if there's a single piece pdf for this...

    Spoiler:
    nesianryukaiel@gmail.com


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    JonathonWilder wrote:
    Really? I didn't know I was allowed to, I thought I needed to play Kirthfinder 'as is'.

    Well, designer's vision and all that, but you wouldn't play Pathfinder and think that you weren't allowed to change the rules to suit, would you?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    The very second paragraph from the rules PDF:

    Quote:
    Important: These house rules are not intended to represent a separate and independent game system, nor are they expected to be used except specifically in conjunction with the Pathfinder role-playing game and other supplements credited. They are for personal (home) use only. Individual home groups are encouraged to change these rules amendments to suit their own taste, and to share how their changes impacted the game experience.

    Although I do remember reading Kirth saying somewhere that the changes aren't siloed. Many of the houserules interact with other houserules. If you change one rule, then you'll need to consider how it affects others. It's not impossible, but it does require some thought and probable playtesting.


    Lucas Yew wrote:

    So this is the famed Kirthfinder ruleset! I wonder if there's a single piece pdf for this...

    ** spoiler omitted **

    Sent.

    Grand Lodge

    5 people marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    JonathonWilder wrote:
    Really? I didn't know I was allowed to, I thought I needed to play Kirthfinder 'as is'.

    About as much as you need to play Pathfinder 'as is'.

    I am amused at the thought of a document that takes an existing game, changes nearly everything about it, and then says "don't change anything". :)

    Dark Archive

    Well my mistake, I must have misread or misremembered a detail. Hmm, I will take a look through Kirthfinder again and see what rules it was I had trouble with. Maybe those here would have ideas how I can use it without completely messing up the formula created.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Yep feel free to ask any questions (lord knows I have) and we will be glad to help.


    I have a question about Type-less penalties, are they a thing? I know bonuses must have a type but i'm not sure if this also extends to penalties as well.


    I'd like to be clever or graceful as I ask the inevitable question, it feels appropriate to do so. I simply don't think I can. I've agonized over it ever since I've read the contents of Kirthfinder, as linked to in the very first post, several months ago. I cannot wait any longer for that creative spark of genius. The pressure to perform built up to the point, now, where I realized that if I didn't act on it, soon I wouldn't be able to express it at all, my desire to possess having reduced me to a gibbering, confusing shell of a man. I can feel it coming, closing in on me. I need salvation, peace of mind, desperately, now, before it is too late. Please, I beg of you, will you save me from myself? Will you send me an updated version?

    Spoiler:
    jofab1986@gmail.com


    Arcane Addict wrote:
    I'd like to be clever or graceful as I ask the inevitable question, it feels appropriate to do so. I simply don't think I can. I've agonized over it ever since I've read the contents of Kirthfinder, as linked to in the very first post, several months ago. I cannot wait any longer for that creative spark of genius. The pressure to perform built up to the point, now, where I realized that if I didn't act on it, soon I wouldn't be able to express it at all, my desire to possess having reduced me to a gibbering, confusing shell of a man. I can feel it coming, closing in on me. I need salvation, peace of mind, desperately, now, before it is too late. Please, I beg of you, will you save me from myself? Will you send me an updated version?

    May you find salvation in the email sent.

    Firewarrior44 wrote:
    I have a question about Type-less penalties, are they a thing? I know bonuses must have a type but i'm not sure if this also extends to penalties as well.

    IIRC, all penalties listed in Kirthfinder are typed as well. If I'm wrong, please post the type-less entry.


    I like to give things types/descriptors. Makes me feel like the game behind the story follows some sort of logic. I probably go overboard in that regard.

    That said, penalties should still usually stack, even if you inadvertently assign like types. For example, a -2 circumstance penalty due to fog and a -2 circumstance penalty due to noise would be a -4 penalty. (An exception, obviously, would be stuff like fatigue and exhaustion, which don't stack because one is simply a more extreme case of the other.)


    Ah Alright. Although I think circumstance is one of the 2 that still stacks, or at least it's called out as that in the version i'm using :-)

    I was mainly asking due to the "Adaptability" feat. As it's power and relevancy is related to the number of penalties that count as circumstance penalties.

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