Kirthfinder - World of Warriorcraft Houserules


Homebrew and House Rules

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Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

2500+ posts, wooooooooooo!


Thanks!!


TriOmegaZero wrote:
2500+ posts, wooooooooooo!

And we continue marching on.


This sounds absolutely intriguing. If possible I'd love to see the rules please.

spoiler:
chaoticangel97@yahoo.com


ChaoticAngel97 wrote:
This sounds absolutely intriguing. If possible I'd love to see the rules please.

Sent.


Hi guys, love Kirthfinder and was having some problems with new players to either Pathfinder or Kirthfinder itself with filling out the character sheet. I do not know if the character sheet has had an update since I had requested a copy of the rules. To remedy this problem, I took up the mantle to format the excel sheet with automatic calucations , it can be found here in my google drive, and is updated as I need it.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in excel or its formulas and I update my master copy on my desktop due to personal internal grievances with my PCs screwing with my formulas


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I still fill out character sheets with a pencil, so I'm not the guy to ask!

Dark Archive

Could I have an updated copy of Kirthfinder?

Spoiler:
buntingthomas@gmail.com


CazElrac wrote:

Hi guys, love Kirthfinder and was having some problems with new players to either Pathfinder or Kirthfinder itself with filling out the character sheet. I do not know if the character sheet has had an update since I had requested a copy of the rules. To remedy this problem, I took up the mantle to format the excel sheet with automatic calucations , it can be found here in my google drive, and is updated as I need it.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in excel or its formulas and I update my master copy on my desktop due to personal internal grievances with my PCs screwing with my formulas

My group prefers pencils and paper character sheets too. If I were to use a digital format, it'd be for Fantasy Grounds on Steam. I'm fairly certain the file types for that simulator aren't compatible with Google Drive.

As for Excel formulas, my own personal number crunching (I'm looking at you, Leadership feat.) has taught me
ROUNDDOWN(number or formula,number of decimal places to round to)
and
ROUNDUP(number or formula,number of decimal places to round to)
are your friends.

JonathonWilder wrote:
Could I have an updated copy of Kirthfinder?

Sent.


Does anyone have a normal, printable, character sheet for this? My group is one of those who enjoys the act of filling out a character sheet, so I figured I'd check in to see if anyone had one.

EDIT: Also, this was a wonderful read, thank you for sharing this marvelous creation.


A normal character sheet would depend on what your definition of 'normal' is. :P

Last time I printed off sheets for this, I opened up the Excel character sheet and deleted all the zero's. Would that suffice?


Kirth a question when you did the weapon profs. what guidlines did you use when applying feats. Was working on mundane style firearms for my home campaign and just wondering if it was mostly flavor or if you had a imposed limit on prereqs for the free feats.


Could I get an updated copy of the ruleset? My most recent version is from 2013!

Spoiler:
wynterknight@hotmail.com


Tahlreth wrote:

A normal character sheet would depend on what your definition of 'normal' is. :P

Last time I printed off sheets for this, I opened up the Excel character sheet and deleted all the zero's. Would that suffice?

Hmmm, that just might work. I'll have to see about trying that.

Also a quick question about the Grenadier rogue talent. It's been stated that's how you make Alchemist bombs in Kirthfinder but I was wondering, since the wording is kinda vague to one of my players. Does the talent actually change the damage amount of the Alchemist flask or simply let you sneak attack with it?


ChaoticAngel97 wrote:
Does the talent actually change the damage amount of the Alchemist flask or simply let you sneak attack with it?

It lets you sneak attack with it -- but since sneak attack damage is of the same type as the primary attack, in essence it's jacking up the flask damage (assuming you're within 30 ft. and either feint, attack from some kind of concealment, or have someone within reach of the target spend an immediate action to give you a flanking bonus, etc. -- there are a number of skill tricks that are really good for this sort of thing).


Talonhawke wrote:
Kirth a question when you did the weapon profs. what guidlines did you use when applying feats. Was working on mundane style firearms for my home campaign and just wondering if it was mostly flavor or if you had a imposed limit on prereqs for the free feats.

Weapon proficiencies were one of the earliest variant rules we did for Pathfinder, so they're in some ways one of the least rigid in terms of structure. Mostly the exotic feat usages were chosen based on what made sense for the weapon, without counting prerequisites, etc. If I had to go back and redo them, I'd probably be more careful about that, but, meh.

If you're treating firearms as weapons rather than as variant magic items, I'd probably use Fell Shot as an exotic feat, to mimic the Pathfinder Gunslinger's touch attack. Alternatively, pick Improved Critical, so that a single shot isn't too dangerous, but a hit in the right place can kill. Or maybe use Manyshot, for a semi-automatic pistol. Or Far Shot for a sniper rifle. The possibilities are endless!


I'd like an up to date copy, sounds like Kirth has been doing some awesome stuff. :D

Spoiler:
nightyelven@gmail.com


wynterknight wrote:
Could I get an updated copy of the ruleset? My most recent version is from 2013!
Aratrok wrote:
I'd like an up to date copy, sounds like Kirth has been doing some awesome stuff. :D

Sent.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
Kirth a question when you did the weapon profs. what guidlines did you use when applying feats. Was working on mundane style firearms for my home campaign and just wondering if it was mostly flavor or if you had a imposed limit on prereqs for the free feats.

Weapon proficiencies were one of the earliest variant rules we did for Pathfinder, so they're in some ways one of the least rigid in terms of structure. Mostly the exotic feat usages were chosen based on what made sense for the weapon, without counting prerequisites, etc. If I had to go back and redo them, I'd probably be more careful about that, but, meh.

If you're treating firearms as weapons rather than as variant magic items, I'd probably use Fell Shot as an exotic feat, to mimic the Pathfinder Gunslinger's touch attack. Alternatively, pick Improved Critical, so that a single shot isn't too dangerous, but a hit in the right place can kill. Or maybe use Manyshot, for a semi-automatic pistol. Or Far Shot for a sniper rifle. The possibilities are endless!

Pretty much what I was thinking. Thanks


Damage over time effects need to be quantified under the same standard instead of being based off base spells.

With the updated errata (Specifically, Concentration spell), instantaneous spell effects repeat once per round the exact same effect. I find that broken, especially with a beneficial battlefield, spell-based lockdown, and other circumstances.

I thought that, instead of just imposing a metamagic cost (which would also heighten a spell effect), the heightening would either not count as an effective spell level increase, or would count as an effective spell level decrease, as if it was reverse heightened, above the normal metamagic cost (-2 to spell power).

Concentration Spell-Subsumes Repeat Spell:
CONCENTRATION SPELL [METAMAGIC]
With concentration, you can maintain spells beyond their normal durations.
Prerequisite: Extend Spell.
Benefit: The duration of a Concentration Spell is equal to the length of time you concentrate, plus the spell’s normal duration thereafter. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell (e.g., you are threatened and fail to cast defensively, or take damage) can also break your concentration while you're maintaining one, causing the spell to end.
For spells that would normally have an instantaneous duration, you can cast the spell or repeat the effect once per round for as long as you concentrate. For area-effect spells, you can move the effect up to 30 ft. per round while concentrating. Any portion of the area that would extend beyond your maximum range dissipates harmlessly, reducing the remaining area thereafter.
Metamagic Cost: +2 levels. By increasing the cost, you can maintain a Concentration spell more efficiently; concentrating as a move action carries a +3 cost, and concentrating as a swift action has a +4 level cost.

To explain:
A concentration fireball (level 5, 15d6 fire damage) can explode once per round for 15d6 (since it also gains the benefits of being heightened to level 5). The proposition would keep the spell a 5th level spell, but reduce its cap to 10d6 per round (acts as an effective 3rd level spell in terms of spell effect).

So Concentration Spell would need the following clause:

Metamagic Cost: +2 levels. By increasing the cost, you can maintain a Concentration spell more efficiently; concentrating as a move action carries a +3 cost, and concentrating as a swift action has a +4 level cost. Unlike most metamagic spell level increases, these levels do not also count towards Heightening the base spell, but instead reduce its effective spell power by the metamagic cost adjustment.

Note: This also requires defining spell power, which I would define as 'effective spell level for the purposes of spell-based variables such as number of damage die, bonus to skills, etc.'

Edit: If adding a clause to lingering damage instead, this may subsume Burning and Vitriolic spell, and allow for lingering fire/acid/cold/electricity damage under a single metamagic effect.


Arrius, that sounds like you want to bundle Concentration Spell with Reduce Spell.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

This sounds very interesting - could I have a copy too please?

email:
foolish.child AT gmail.com


carborundum wrote:

This sounds very interesting - could I have a copy too please?

** spoiler omitted **

It is if you haven't gotten a copy by the time I get home I'll send one.


Spoiler:
thompsons_gazelle@yahoo.com

If someone could send me an updated copy of the rules I'd greatly appreciate it. Cheers.

Dark Archive

Hey, Kirth.

I don't know if you remember (probably not), but I'm doing something similar to your project, but intended to be used in conjunction with my own game world (obviously). I'm a lot farther behind than you are, but the latest thing I managed to do is to consolidate Skills.

I've introduced two new things:

a) Removed class and non-class skills

Now all characters can choose 4 skills as Background Skills and gain +3 bonus.

b) Divided skills into two categories, common and uncommon skills.

Common skills can be chosen as background skills and learned in a standard way, but uncommon ones require a teacher or some kind of knowledge source to be learned.

Here's the Skill Table if anyone's interested:

Nightflier's Skills.

Shadow Lodge

I'd also like to request an updated copy of this famous work!

click me:
asurendra@mailinator.com


Tahlreth wrote:
Arrius, that sounds like you want to bundle Concentration Spell with Reduce Spell.

Pretty much. The scaling right now only grows in power, and does not follow normal parameters for DoT effects and their relation with rounds.

Ideally, damage (or healing) over time should fall into a system in which instantaneous effects deal X damage instantly, while damage over time deal three times X over several rounds.

If we attempt to put a number, then concentration spells (if de-heightened three levels) would deal damage 1/3 of X every round.
An acceptable duration would be 1 round per two caster levels, at which the final damage would be 3X.
Of course, an alternate solution would be that spells that deal instantaneous damage instead deal 1/3 the damage cap over said rounds. For this purpose, Concentration spell is needed to make it longer.


3 sent and on the way guys good luck.


Re: continuing damage, one possibility would be to simply use the existing damage cap rules: a fireball caps at 10d6; heighten it by 2 levels and the cap is 15d6 -- you could choose 15d6 initial, or 10d6 initial and 5d6 the next round, or 10d6 initial plus 1d6/round for 5 more rounds, or 5d6/round for 3 rounds, or whatever. In a way, you break even: 15d6 instantaneous means you don't have to wait, but 10d6 plus extra 5d6 "ongoing" makes concentrating on spells harder for the target(s) during that next round.

That doesn't work so well for spells with effects other than direct damage, however, so you'd still need something like a Concentration Spell feat.


That's a fair solution--that also determines how many rounds it takes for the effects to totally discharge.


I'd love to take a look at this!

Spoiler:
fntcwriter@yahoo.com

Always looking for improved systems.


Otherwhere wrote:

I'd love to take a look at this!

** spoiler omitted **

Always looking for improved systems.

Sent


Can I snag a copy of the final version?

Address:
nevinera@gmail.com

I have to see how hard it is to convert an adventure path, but the "really early" version google gives me is already very interesting to read. You seemed to pay careful attention to correcting some of the problems that bother me most about the base system, so I can't wait to see where you landed at the end of it :-)


nevinera wrote:

Can I snag a copy of the final version?

** spoiler omitted **

I have to see how hard it is to convert an adventure path, but the "really early" version google gives me is already very interesting to read. You seemed to pay careful attention to correcting some of the problems that bother me most about the base system, so I can't wait to see where you landed at the end of it :-)

Sent.


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nevinera wrote:

Can I snag a copy of the final version?

** spoiler omitted **

I have to see how hard it is to convert an adventure path, but the "really early" version google gives me is already very interesting to read. You seemed to pay careful attention to correcting some of the problems that bother me most about the base system, so I can't wait to see where you landed at the end of it :-)

A few AP things to keep in mind. Your players will have abilities far beyond their PF kin in some cases. While you might not choose to rework every encounter from the ground up I would recommend adjusting feats where appropriate and Reworking major fights to include some mooks. A evil mastermind even one built with these rules won't function well 4-6 on 1.


One of the goals in buffing the martial guys was to reduce the need to artificially jack up the daily encounter count. Instead of 4 per day, I often have 1-2 that are somewhat more involved; the balance of each session is leading up to the encounter, to see how far the PCs can tip the scales in their favor to avoid a TPK. Sadly, this is sort of the opposite approach of many of the APs, so at home I end up adjusting them fairly heavily, when I use pieces from them.

To that end, I give every major villain the Leadership feat, with appropriate cohorts and followers -- the first half of an adventure might revolve around the PCs trying to catch the cohort and some followers alone and eliminate them, so that when they encounter the boss, his forces are already depleted.


So to balance my guns was playing with some dice and reload times. Moving past muskets for my home game so I am working on Revolver/rifle/Shotgun as the starters may do 2 versions of the rifle one breech style with a long range and more damage and one with higher rate of fire with a lower damage.

For the revolver here is what I have

Simple: One Handed Ranged 1d6/x4 -4 Non prof penalty. 30ft range Reload all chambers 2rnds.

Martial One Handed Ranged 1d6/x4 30ft Range Reload all Chambers 2nds.

Exotic One handed Ranged 1d6/x4 30ft Range Reload all Chambers 1Rnd, or One handed Ranged 1d6/x4 Reload all chambers 2rnds Precise Shot.

Also a question has come up how do weapon granted feats work as prereqs? Could a character who gets a feat from a weapon take feats with it as a prereq and be able to only use them with that weapon?


Talonhawke wrote:
Could a character who gets a feat from a weapon take feats with it as a prereq and be able to only use them with that weapon?

Yes, that was part of the intent -- particularly for the ones that grant TWF.


Thanks that's what we thought but always good to be sure.

The Exchange

I would love an update too.

Spoiler:

gileddb@gmail.com

TY


I second giving a free Leadership feat to every major villain. And I like that the 5th ed. DMG provides a good outline for morale saves. I'll be using that for figuring out when the cohorts would run towards their boss. I'd finally have an excuse to nail down rules for chase scenes.

PirateDevon wrote:
I would love an update too.

Sent.


Tahlreth wrote:
I second giving a free Leadership feat to every major villain.

In the interest of full disclosure, my villains still spend a feat on it, because I'm a stickler for the rules when designing encounters.


Alright, it's more like I use the Leadership feat as a guideline for juggling NPC CRs from encounter to encounter. I'm still trying to find the challenge level sweet spot between tedious steamrolling and horrific TPK.


Could i have a copy of Kirithfinder? Last time i viewed this thread it was 2 years ago:)

Spoiler:
ashley-hcc@inbox.ru


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Tierre wrote:

Could i have a copy of Kirithfinder? Last time i viewed this thread it was 2 years ago:)

** spoiler omitted **

Sent


Kirth Gersen wrote:

One of the goals in buffing the martial guys was to reduce the need to artificially jack up the daily encounter count. Instead of 4 per day, I often have 1-2 that are somewhat more involved; the balance of each session is leading up to the encounter, to see how far the PCs can tip the scales in their favor to avoid a TPK. Sadly, this is sort of the opposite approach of many of the APs, so at home I end up adjusting them fairly heavily, when I use pieces from them.

To that end, I give every major villain the Leadership feat, with appropriate cohorts and followers -- the first half of an adventure might revolve around the PCs trying to catch the cohort and some followers alone and eliminate them, so that when they encounter the boss, his forces are already depleted.

Two leadership questions as I am brain storming.

1. A single character can only have 1 cohort correct?

2. When you build your villain set-up is it appropriate for the cohorts to have leadership if applicable. For instance a high level necromancer has a cohort that is a vampire lord. Would it be appropriate if he is a major plot villain in his own right for him to have leadership and have a cohort and followers of his own?


Talonhawke wrote:


1. A single character can only have 1 cohort correct?

2. When you build your villain set-up is it appropriate for the cohorts to have leadership if applicable. For instance a high level necromancer has a cohort that is a vampire lord. Would it be appropriate if he is a major plot villain in his own right for him to have leadership and have a cohort and followers of his own?

1. One cohort of CR up to the Leader's CR -3; any number (subject to total Leadership potential) of CR up to the leader's CR -5.

2. I have no problem with cascading leadership, for players or for NPCs. The thing is to keep track of which followers belong to which leader, which can be important if some sort of conflict between the big boss and the cohort can be engineered.


Yeah that's what I figured. Still working out red hand and felt that would make for an interesting breakdown and yes I figure the group will try once they cause some issue to cause some in fighting.


I searched this post but could not find an answer. I was wondering how favored terrain magic abilities work. Mainly, Forrest terrain with speak with animals at will, is that only in Forrest ? Or any where?


Lastoutkast wrote:
I searched this post but could not find an answer. I was wondering how favored terrain magic abilities work. Mainly, Forrest terrain with speak with animals at will, is that only in Forrest ? Or any where?

Since it's not specified, it's technically anywhere. Originally it was going to be limited to forest critters, but then you end up in this whole weird series of corner-cases: e.g., "If it's only when I'm in a forest, why does my ability to talk to this bird cut off when I take a 5-ft. step? Does it end if the bird flies above the treetops? How high are they, anyway?" or "If it's by critter, well, European badgers live in the woods and meadows, but American badgers live in hills and badlands. Do dire badgers count? Is that an American dire badger or a European dire badger?" It's a lot simpler to make it a blanket ability.

Also, at-will speak with animals doesn't break the game.

For abilities that only work in a specific terrain, that's spelled out in the ability description.

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