Sphynx's page

Organized Play Member. 873 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 2 Organized Play characters.

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Oh? Gunslingers are good with Kukris, and without guns?

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After the eye-opening comments by Calethos, I began to understand why my archetypes were so failing... not only because I was trying to under-dog them to be viably acceptable, but because I was trying to merge them into a single archetype, losing a lot of their "theme" in the process... so, while still a work-in-progress, here's my enlightened attempt to do it again.


Ifrit - The goal being to make them the the -best- at pyrokineticism. If you want a powerful blaster, this should fit the bill without breaking things in the process.

Oread - Lacking dex/con as a bonus, I made them pure-blade (like the Jaedai), and made sure they could use their bonus to strength to enhance their melee abilities, so they can actually dump dex now, and pump up con/str.

Sylph - The real 'utility' archetype of the class, not much different than my previous attempt, but this time with fewer penalties.

Undine - What the Chirurgen could have looked like, and still have been effective in combat. Good healers without sacrificing offense.

Suli - Unlimited on elements. Unlike Caletho's version earlier which tends to force them to focus on a single type of blast, I kept my generalized to all elements but at the huge price of reduced Utility wild talents.

Click HERE to see...

Would seriously love some input from anybody. :)

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I hope this to be my final attempt at this... it finally starts to feel like what I'm wanting in an archetype. I just worry that they perhaps get too many utility wild talents... :/

Elemental Kineticist - Kineticist Racial Archetype

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Jaedai Knight - Kineticist Archetype
The Jaedai Knights are an order of Knights who focus on an element they refer to as "The Force". This is an element which bears many semblances to the Aether element, except that whereas most kineticist draw from the Ethereal Plane, a Jaedai Knight draws from the Astral Plane, giving them power over the mind.

Prerequisite: Kineticist with Aether elemental focus.

Light Saber (Su): All Jaedai Knights start with the Kinetic Blade infusion, however this only works if they have a device through which to focus their blast, which all characters start with. Through the use of crystals, harnessed in a mithral casing, she is able to focus the far more random power of the Astral plane into a weapon. Once a Kinetic Blade is formed, it is sustained turn by turn as a simple action unless the device harnessing the crystal is dropped. Replacing or fixing a damaged or sundered light saber requires 2d4 days, 2 lbs of Mithral and a crystal worth no less than 1,000 GP. The jaedai receives a +10 to their CMD to avoid having their light sabers sundered.

A Jaedai Knight is treated as having fighter levels equal to his levels as a kineticist for the purpose of qualifying for feats, but only with the light saber. Otherwise, all other rules for the Kinetic Blade remain the same, such as it never counting as being wielded.

Infusions (Su): Jaedai Knights can not gain the Kinetic Whip infusion. This alters the infusion class feature.

Utility Wild Talents (Su): Jaedai Knights have access to the following Aether utility wild talents: basic telekinesis, kinetic healer, telekinetic finesse, telekinetic haul, touchsight, telekinetic maneuvers, self telekinesis (but not the greater version) and touchsight (reactive). In addition, they may gain Astral utility wild talents listed below.

Kinetic Blast (Su): Jaedai Knights do not gain the ability to shoot ranged blasts, and are limited to using their Light sabers for their kinetic blasts. This alters the kinetic blast class feature.

Elemental Defense (Su): Once per round, when your light saber is activated, you can deflect any attack against you by making an attack roll against the roll used to attack you. You must exceed, not match, the attacker’s roll in order to deflect the attack. This replaces the elemental defense class feature.

Power of Light (Su): Upon reaching 7th level, your light saber increases it’s critical to 19-20/x3 instead of the default of 20/x2. You can spend 1 burn to double the critical of the light saber for 1 round per level. At 16th level the critical increases to 18-20/x3 and the damage of the Kinetic Blade, and for 2 burn you can add your Elemental Overflow damage bonus to attacks made within the duration. This replaces the Expanded Element and the Composite Specialization class features.

Wild Talents, Utility

Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 0; Saving Throw: Will negates
You are able to change the attitude of a creature at a small level. Turning rage into annoyance, happiness into discomfort, or give a feeling of apathy to anyone that is not under a strong emotional influence. This can shift any creature’s attitude towards the party by 1 degree. From Hostile to Unfriendly to Indifferent to Friendly to Helpful, though this may only be used on any creature once per day.

Influence, Greater
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 4; Burn 0
You are able to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature, one time per day per creature.

Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 0
You are able create a single minor illusion that are purely visual as per the Silent Image spell, though the size of the illusion can be large or greater. This illusion requires a move action to maintain.

Sense Life
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 4; Burn 0
You are able to sense the presence of a living being by focusing on an area within 120’ of yourself. When activated, you are treated as under the influence of a See Invisible spell for anything within 30’ of the area you focus upon, though you must still have line of sight to actually see your target(s). This lasts for as long as you spend a standard action focusing on that area.

Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 3; Burn 0
You receive insights of the future. This grants you a +4 bonus on all initiative tests, for 1 minute per level. Accept 1 burn to have this effect last until the next time you recover burn.

Enhanced Athleticism
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 1; Burn 0
As the Air’s Leap talent. Additionally, you can add your levels in burn to all balance checks.

Greater Enhanced Athleticism
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 0
You gain the effects of the Endurance feat for 1 minute per level. While under this effect your running speed is equal to 5x your normal movement speed instead of 4. Accept 1 burn to have this effect last until the next time you recover burn.

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Well, the races are in. :) You can tell me if they went overboard. :P

Of note: I house-ruled that Darkvision was not allowed as a freebie, so the guy that took Outsider, lost darkvision for lowlight vision, lowering the cost of outsider to 2 instead of 3. :)

I've been having fun making the world with the races in mind... they all took an "animal" type race. There's a Reptile Outsider, 2 Canine Humanoids, 1 Feline Humanoid and 1 Shapeshifter.

The first is a Dragonbourne (Outsider/Reptile). He wanted to make a dragon-kind, but 10 pts out of the 12pt limit was too much to do anything interesting. He chose Outsider to get some "fire" stuff that he wanted. He went Advanced on attributes: +2 to all Physicals, +4 to Charisma, -2 to Wisdom. Fire in the Blood, and Damage Resistance, Moon Touched.

The 2nd was a Tigroid (Humanoid/Feline). +2 Dex, +2 Con (Flexible). Low Light Vision, Silent Hunter, Nimble Attacks, Climb, Claws and Bite.

Next was the Shapeshifter (Humanoid). +2 Dex, +2 Wis (Flexible). Greater Change Shape, Greater Lucky.

Then a Wulfen (Humanoid/Canine). +2 Wis, +2 Dex, -2 Cha (Standard). 120' Darkvision, Lowlight vision, Scent, Keen Senses, Stalker, Fearless.

Lastly Gnogg (Humanoid/Canine) +2 Cha, +2 Con, -2 Wis (Standard). Lowlight vision, Emissary, Silver Tongues, Gnome Magic (no gnomes in the world, so ignoring subtypes), Urbanite, Skill Training (Diplomacy/Bluff), Elven Immunities.

Here's my ideas... The Canine Races and Feline Races have had a long standing enmity going on, put recently to an end by the Dragonbourne who hold the peace. The Dragonbourne are obviously the toughest and most dangerous of the races, and their high Physical and Charisma supports a large retinue of Paladins amongst the race. They're the "dwarves" of the setting, sticking to the mountains and only having come out to put an end to the centuries long war when it started spilling into their domains.

The canines are the "humans" of this setting, populating huge cities, particularly the Gnogg ones, the Wulfen tend to stick to the wilderness. They're not only the most civilized, they're the most numerous.

The felines are the "elves" of the setting, sticking to trees, and practicing magics (mostly divine, none of the major races are int based, though int is also not a weakness anywhere either). These have rituals from birth that teach and recall the gods to their children in complete contrast tot he Gnoggs which have dropped the idea of worship almost entirely.

Then there are the shapechangers/mutants, which are not so much a race as a mutation. 1 in nearly 200 of those born into any of the 3 races, or any of the other races of the setting (which will include minorities in Ratfolk Tengu Etc), are born unable to maintain their shape. In the past they were quickly killed to stop the "demons", but as the Gnogg race dropped belief in the gods, they also decided it must be something other than a demon. Together with the feline races, they created "temples" in where the children were taught to control their shape. Now, centuries later, they maintain themselves, and only the mutated are allowed to enter the Temple (AKA: Temple of the Faceless God, perhaps slightly borrowed from GoT).

The races are only now becoming familiar/friendly with each other, and it is no longer an oddity to see a member of one race, in the domain of another. A "peaceful" time.

There are also 4 other prevalent sentient races in the setting, they are slaves, and nobody has ever thought twice about them. The idea of "Freedom" never entered the minds of anyone... you're born into your station, and you die from there. However some of the Gnoggs have started to oppose the idea of slavery and are determined to free these slaves in this lifetime. Those are the elementals, also known as Ifrit, Sylph, Oread and Undine. There are also Suli, but a suli is the equivalent of the mutants, and are sent to work as slaves at the Temple to the Faceless God.

What isn't known is that the Suli's were "freed" within the 1st generation of the shapechangers, and are considered as equals to the mutants. It's the Mutants, masquerading, that have started the efforts to free the elemental races.

And, as if this political turmoil wasn't enough, a new race has appeared on the coast, a gigantic sphere blocking all passage as well as spells, covers several miles of land at the coast, and beneath this globe can be seen horrific looking pale skinned, furless creatures that are building a steel city at an incredible rate. They lack claws, wear clothing, and have teeth like a goat or sheep (herbivorish), so are not considered to be a real threat, but nobody can understand the globe.

Haven't finished rounding out all the edges, but it's a start. :)

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I like it. :)

I have a player that VMC's into Occultist as a Ranger. At 3rd level, I let him have a full Mental Focus (Ranger level as Occultist Level), since Int Bonus is typically going to be low (Maybe 14 at best) for anything not a Wizard type. I also allowed him to pick up a single Implement and the basic Resonate Power attached to it. 7th level he got the Base Focus Power as well as 1 other Focus Power of choice, using his Level as the class Level.

So, at 3rd level he too Divination, with 4 mental focus points (3rd level, 12 Int). He already has low light vision, so that didn't do anything for him. 5th level he got Darkvision though (though that meant he used ALL his mental focus points).

7th level he can either See Invisibility once per day (he has a +2 Int item), or use his Mind Eye (Sp) throughout the day (not both since it costs 9 mental focus to get the See Invisibility and he has level +2 from Int).

Point being, at least in my case, if it was just "Int Bonus", you wouldn't get anything from 3rd level, 5th level, 7th level (except a once or twice per day use of Mind Eye).

I haven't looked at other Implements, but maybe something to think on. :)

EDIT: Oh... his Sudden Insight is where I subtracted -6 from his level. There it made sense. :) So he can, at 7th level, spend a mental focus point for a +1 to his attack roll. By 20th level, that's +7.

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Chess Pwn wrote:
So the bloodrager has a feat, Mad Magic, that lets it use any spells while in a bloodrage, which I believe would let it use any SLA it has too, thus a bloodrager with that feat can mix with the Kineticist and rage and blast.

Absolutely, if your GM lets you use that feat. I don't see why not.

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Writing up some Feats that I think would help Kineticists without unbalancing them... Seem fair? Anything else we should hope to see?

Skilled Infusionist
You can learn some Infusion Wild Talents sooner than others of your class.
Prerequisite: Kineticist level 3 or higher.
Benefit: Treat your Kineticist level as 1 higher for the purpose of qualifying for Infusion Wild Talents **Get those pesky level 2 talents at 3rd instead of 5th

Expanded Element
You gain a talent of your choice.
Prerequisite: Either 7th or 15th kineticist level.
Benefit: When expanding into a new element, you gain a single talent from a previously known element if you would otherwise qualify for it. This must be an infusion talent or utility talent. **Basically Extra Wild Talent without the "2 levels lower".

Foe Hurl
Your ability at tossing opponents is not restricted by form.
Prerequisite: Foe Throw infusion wild talent, and either Extended or Extreme infusion.
Benefit: When using Foe Throw, the range you can toss an enemy is 120' if you have the Extended Range infusion, or 480' if you have the Extreme Range infusion. You are still limited to 30' for selecting your target to throw.

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As part of my project to categorize all the best builds, starting with high DPR Martials from each of the martial classes, I'm beginning with the Barbarian. I played a Sylph Urban Barbarian for awhile (don't ask :P), and while reading the guides, realized the importance of Come and Get Me at level 12. Also the importance of an Invulnerable archetype. However, I'm no expert on the class...

Anyone care to help me with the ultimate DPR build for the class? How to best maximize the come-and-get-me power? If there are any ranged-attack builds that would be interesting? Best feats? Magic Items? Traits?

Please don't recommend I go look at the Guides, I do know the guides pretty well, but they are generalized and may lack any special combinations that hard-core barbarian players may have come across that boosted DPR more than expected. I'm specifically looking to see just how much damage one can output as a barbarian at any given level. :) If I don't get any input, I'll just assume that the guides are solid enough and I'll add a basic Barbarian to the list using the (according to the guide) best options listed in the guides, and try to calculate the DPRs accurately on my own, per level.

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Thanks AVR, I'll start my project with your Archer Warpriest. :)

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Ok, can we get off the "this is stupid" derail this has taken. I haven't asked if it was a good idea or not, I've asked for help in doing this task. Of -course- it's something to be ignored if someone tells me I'm playing wrong. However, it is still advantages in these ADVICE forums to show examples of character advancement in a manner that leads to an optimized character. And as I've already stated, and am having to reiterate again, the guides do NOT meet the requisite being asked for here.

And truth be told, I don't actually expect the "best and strongest", though obviously it would be close and give a good feel on just how much damage one should be -close- to doing. Feats and Magic Items only do so much, but obviously there are some feats/magic items that are must-haves which make a class all the better.

Similarly, if I'm doing 1/3rd of what I'm "suppose" to be doing, according to those who optimize well, I should take a look-see at what I've done and consider the fact that in a dice-rolling game, mechanics are as important as theme.

Now can we get back on to the topic of the thread? Examples of builds for the various classes?

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Not trying to make a point. I'm trying to sate curiosity. There is a certain level of elitism on these forums in where people seem to just assume that everyone else knows of certain feats/combinations that are "Essential" for any class to be competitive. I want to see these things, and be able to see people quickly point to a certain thread to find the 'way' to build a character of that class and be most optimized. Things like... at what level do you take Power Attack, which tier after that is best? Which class is it better to follow the Combat Reflexes or certain Stances, than others... I'm hardened to the tone of people on here who just assume that if your Barbarian/Fighter/Monk/Paladin isn't pouring out X amount of damage at a certain level, you must be stupid. I want to see how that damage is being poured out, what it is I'm missing. A 20-level explained build lets me and anyone else see precisely these things. I know enough to know that come level X you're expected to have MegaFeat, but don't always know X or MegaFeat. See what I'm saying?

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Except that's not what I said nor suggested Claxon.

I want to see what that optimized character looks like at each level (up to 20). If people are telling me that my level 6 character is sub-optimal, then looking at the level 20 character and seeing what he was at by 6th level, will either confirm or refute that statement. Hence the request to show per-level development.

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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I actually really like this!


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Josh-o-Lantern wrote:
technarken wrote:

My 12th level TKer in PFS has a +32 to grapple, and can then pin as a move immediately afterwards, then turn on suffocation the next round to Darth Vader you, crushing your windpipe with the move action maintenance.

I'd say TK maneuvers is worth it.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on that?

Wow. I missed that +32 earlier... how is that? +9 from level, +8 from 26 Con, +2 from them being flat-footed (we're stealthy), Are we including +4 from overflow (is that even legal)?... I get 23 at best, maybe 24 if you include Weapon Focus (which I'm sure isn't legal, since this isn't the blast)?

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I think the biggest problem with the Kineticist was that it was too much rules in general... a new class feature every other level. Everything after "Kinetic Blast" should have, in my opinion, been a Utility Wild Talent, and Wild Talents granted every level like spells (a spell-progression chart even). Imagine the ease if it had been handled a bit more like spell progression...

1st level, 3 talents (don't worry if they're utility/infusion/other).

People would quickly buy Gather Power early on as well as an Infusion like Extended Range and the Elemental Defense of their element. Elemental Overflow would be a 2nd level utility, infusion specialization would likely be a feat (or tier of feats) instead of class feature, metakinesis a 3rd level infusion of the type: Meta, etc, etc... you wouldn't feel so much like you have a ton of rules, as you'd feel that you had a ton of options (similar to spells).

I think each book tends to do even more rules for a class than the previous book(s). Any way that simplifies would be much better.

I love the Kineticist, my all time favorite class ever, but it could have been a lot cleaner with a ton-less in class features, and had the same basic results.

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SlimGauge wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
The only rules about -4 is on page 184 where it specifically states that "If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll."

I parse that quote as "If you shoot <anything that can be shot> or throw a ranged weapon".

Good parsing, but only by actually filling in an object with the verb would it be grammatically correct. Without an actual object word/phrase between the 2 verbs, grammatically, those 2 verbs apply to the same object; which in this case is "ranged weapon".

To apply as you intended, it would need commas after the word "shoot" and after the word "weapon" to imply that "If you shoot at a target..."

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These are the 'cards' I've used for my own character, feel free to copy them if you want to use something similar. I'll have pre-configured ones included on my TK guide as well, once it's completed.

Kinetic Blast Spreadsheet

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I in no way want to take the wind away from N.Jolly's awesome Kineticist guide, it's great work and deserves a spotlight. However, my great interest in it has been, not because I need help with the class, but because I've been working on my own guide. Unlike Jolly, I don't think the elements should all be in the same guide. I had already started my own guide before I saw that Jolly was doing one, but I'm going much much much slower... (don't even expect many changes over the weekend, I need to evaluate in tests different things before I open my mouth).

If anyone's interested in input'ing on my much more bland guide (I'll decorate it after I see how much space I have for images per page), you can find it here:

Aether Kineticist Guide

I'm only just now moving onto the Talents, and haven't even considered Feats or Magic items yet... I feel that, only in this way, can you truly convey how to intermix the elements, and just how different the different elements are played. After all, as Mark said, each element has its own playstyle, such as 'tactical' for aether. To lump them into a single guide does a disfavor (in my opinion) to potential optimization.

Also, my apologies for just how empty it is... I'm trying to be as thorough as possible and am really only doing this on limited spare time, throwing things in as I experience them in our weekly game-play.

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Just don't forget, Con is your most important stat, you'll have more HP than most fighters, and there's a max on how much you can burn, which still puts you at better than a wizard in remaining HP before KO, and that's IF you get around to burning all your burn. I rarely ever spend all my burn, and once I do, I rarely am in a situation afterwards (before resting) in which I need many HPs.

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I know I posted this before, but just in case, wanted to post it again on this thread so it's all in one place.

It should be remembered that there is so much more than the Blast about the kineticist. They can be very easily (especially the Aether Telekinetic) as good as a rogue at non-combat stuff. While I realize that the primary purpose of a guide is how to optimize for battle, We have a lot more that we can do. Here is a copy of my 12th level character, who makes most rogue builds look inadequate in rogue-ish abilities, primarily because, unlike the Rogue, we really have a lot of feats to spare if we accept a lesser combat role (which is still a powerful role as I'm discovering in my own group, and I'm completely un-optimized for combat).

I start each day with 5 of 10 Burn for a 40% vs Missiles and 30 TmpHP.

Aaron (12th level Kineticist)55
Male sylph kineticist 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 156)
NG Medium outsider (native)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
AC 24, touch 16, flat-footed 18 (+8 armor, +6 Dex)
hp 201 (12d8+108)
Fort +15, Ref +15, Will +6; +1 Luck bonus vs. traps
Defensive Abilities fortification 25%; Resist electricity 5
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged electric blast +20 touch (6d6+10 electricity) or
. . telekinetic blast +20 (6d6+20)
Kineticist Spell-Like Abilities (CL 0th; concentration +0)
. . Constant—feather fall
. . At will—basic aerokinesis, basic telekinesis
Str 9, Dex 24, Con 24, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +9; CMB +8; CMD 25
Feats Deft Hands, Extra Wild Talent, Extra Wild Talent, Iron Will, Stealthy, Toughness
Traits adopted, elven reflexes, trap finder
Skills Acrobatics +22, Disable Device +29, Escape Artist +23, Fly +29, Perception +15, Sleight of Hand +26, Stealth +40, Survival +12, Use Magic Device +15; Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth
Languages Aquan, Auran, Common, Elven, Ignan, Sylvan, Terran
SQ breeze-kissed, burn, elemental focuses and expanded elements (aether, expanded element [air]), elemental overflow, enveloping winds, force ward, gather power, infusion specialization, infusions (bowling infusion, extended range, extreme range, foe throw, pushing infusion), internal buffer, kinetic blast, metakinesis, metakinesis, utility wild talents (air cushion, engulfing winds, expanded defense [enveloping winds], telekinetic finesse, telekinetic haul, telekinetic invisibility, touchsight, wings of air)
Combat Gear arrowmaster's bracers; Other Gear +4 shadow, improved mithral chain shirt, belt of physical might +4 (Dex, Con), headband of vast intelligence +4, mercury gloves, masterwork thieves' tools
Special Abilities
Aetheric Boost (Sp) Level 6; Burn 2
Air Cushion (Sp) Constantly under the effects of feather fall.
Arrowmaster's bracers (1/day) DR 5/magic & +1 deflection vs ranged, activate for +20 to ranged att.
Basic Aerokinesis (At will) (Sp) You can create a light breeze that blows against a creature or object from a direction of your choice that follows the target wherever it goes.
Basic Telekinesis (At will) (Sp) This ability is similar to mage hand, except you can move an object that weighs up to 5 pounds per 2 kineticist levels you possess (minimum 5 pounds), and you can move magical objects.
Bowling Infusion Blast also trips foes.
Breeze-Kissed (1/day) +2 AC versus nonmagical ranged attacks. Bull rush/trip with air 1/day within 30 ft.
Burn 4/round (12 nonlethal/burn, 10/day) Burn HP to gain greater effects on your wild talents.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Elemental Overflow +4/+8 (Max +4, +2 CON, +4 DEX, +2 STR, 25% fortification) (Ex) Gain a bonus to hit and damage with your blast when you use burn.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Enveloping Winds (30% +5%/burn) (Su) Ranged attacks with physical weapons have a 30% miss chance
Extended Range Kinetic blast has range of 120ft.
Extreme Electric Blast (Sp) Level 6; Burn 0
Extreme Range Kinetic blast has range of 480ft.
Extreme Telekinetic Blast (Sp) Level 6; Burn 0
Foe Throw Throw a creature if it fails its save.
Force Ward (12 hp +6 hp/burn) (Su) Gain 12 temporary hp
Fortification 25% You have a chance to negate critical hits on attacks.
Infusion Specialization 3 (Ex) Reduce burn cost of blasts with infusions by 3
Internal Buffer 2 (Su) Store burn for use later
Kinetic Blast (Sp) The kineticist can unleash her kinetic blast at a range of 30 feet at will.
Kinetic Healer (Sp) Heal others equal to your blast damage
Metakinesis (1 burn: Empower) (Su) By accepting burn you affect your kinetic blast as if using a metamagic ability.
Metakinesis (2 burn: Maximize) (Su) By accepting burn you affect your kinetic blast as if using a metamagic ability.
Pushing Infusion Your kinetic blasts makes Bull Rush CMB using Con.
Quickfinger gloves +5 to Disable Device against traps, +1 luck bonus to saves vs traps.
Supercharge (Su) Move: reduce the burn cost of a blast by 2 or Full-round: reduce the burn cost of a blast by 3
Telekinetic Finesse (Sp) Use telekinesis to perform Sleight of Hand and Disable Device checks.
Telekinetic Haul (Sp) Move an object that weighs up to 100 lbs. per kineticist level.
Telekinetic Invisibility (Sp) Grants invisibility
Touchsight (Su)

Your telekinesis allows you to keep track of unseen things that it touches.
Trap Finder Use Disable Device to disarm magic traps, like a rogue.
Wings of Air (Sp) You are constantly under the effects of fly.

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I sometimes forget the following 2 classes are "broken", since we house rule them a solid fix.

Warrior of the Holy Light - Sacrificing your spells for some very minor boosts would have been somewhat ok (if not for the fact that they are super weak in comparison to spells), but the cost of the boosts is already paid by paying a Lay on Hands to use it.

House Rule: We "fixed" it by allowing the Warrior of the Holy Light to have both Divine Bonds, and treating his level as being 3 levels lower for the Divine Bond, and adding the Celestial Template at 6th level instead of 11th for the mount.

Packmaster Druid - Splitting your HD amongst your companions was the equivalent of not having companions if you had more than 2 companions.

House Rule: We "fixed" this by taking the CR XP of a companion of the same level, and splitting that up. So, when you should have had a 6th level companion, you instead can split the CR (2,400) out amongst 3 companions (800, 800, 800 for example, to receive 3 companions all level 3).

PS. I understand wanting to troll on bad archetypes... I would be much more interested in the House Rules used to "fix" a bad archetype, if people don't mind. After all, in my experience, people pick a bad archetype because it's thematic, and we should encourage thematic roleplaying by fixing the archetype instead of punishing them for theme, with bad mechanics.

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Yes, you can speak. Speaking is a "free action" and can take place at any time.

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Ok, as an experiment, I changed the system to use all Utility Wild Talents, and it feels so much cleaner to me. You still get the same results in the end... mostly... My level 20 example had 3 more Utility Wild Talents than I had before, but the rest was pretty much the same.

I had to kill the Sylph Lord, getting 2 maximized/empowered kinetic blasts as a single simple action for free was too much. Currently, there is no level 20 anything. The new version is visible at the same link.

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Wolin got me thinking...

I don't like the Rogue Talents, as it does open things up to more rogue, less sylph, options. I'm thinking of switching the 11, 13, 17, and 19 (and 20) to as follows (admittedly, a bit influenced by my ethereal warrior prestige class I was working on):

11: Sneaky Sylph (Ex). When using stealth an aetherialist can move at full speed without penalty, and when making a ranged attack she only suffers a -10 instead of a -20 to maintain her obscured location.

13: Hide in the Sky (Ex). When flying in an outside area, an aetherialist can make a stealth check to hide, even while being observed.

17th: Air's Form (Sp) An aetherialist can spend a full round action to become incorporeal until the end of her next turn. This costs 1 burn, and allows her to go through as much solid material as her movement will allow. If flying, she moves at half speed for any move actions while incorporeal. If she ends her turn inside a solid object, she returns to the last point where there was an opening and loses another point of burn.

19th: Ethereal Jaunt (Sp) After spending a full round action to become incorporeal and spending 2 burn, an aetherialist is treated as if under the effects of an Ethereal Jaunt spell.

20th: Sylph Lord (Ex) Once per day, a Sylph Lord can ignore all burn costs on a single action.

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At some point, someone is going to make a Kineticist Optimization Guide, and that someone won't be me, and that someone likely won't know -all- the Elements well enough to make a complete guide, so I thought I'd post some ideas for that optimization guide based on my own character. :)

I'll skip the obvious stuff (non-lethal not stacking with lethal, starting the day with 3 burn after 5th level, etc) and just point out some Aether things of note.

I think the most important use of the Telekineticist is as the Utility Rogue character. No matter how much you enhance your Kinetic Blast, it's still just a single once-per-turn attack that can't Cleave, go Two-Handed or stack with weapon feats in general. The problem is that an Aether build isn't really conducive towards party-assist either, which means the number of niche's one can fill while still playing something thematic to the player, is limited.

This is resolved if you're the "thief" of the party (especially if you have a party that lacks such a character). We're better than a Rogue at thievish things for a few reasons. Primarily, because we have ranged Disable/Sleight which doesn't accumulate a -5 DC like the Arcane Trickster does. We begin with Sleight as a class skill, so the Vagabond Child (Urban) is a very very important Trait to pick up (along with one of the Reactionary types for the bonus initiative). Now we steal and open/remove almost as well as a Rogue, except we'll get to do it from a nice/safe distance.

Attributes are already inclined towards that of a Thief, since Dexterity is as important to us as Con (and unlike a Rogue, we don't have Strength as an important attribute). For a Thief build though, I would put Dex first. Con is important, but if you know you're not going to focus on pouring damage, and knowing that most Burn is for enhancing the Blast that you're not built around, you're better off making sure you have the Rogue-ish Dexterity. The things you're lacking is Detecting of Traps and Disabling of Magic Traps (I'll address this a bit more down below when talking about magic items). My personal experience says that it's ok to share the work on the Detection of traps. Due to the rather low Wisdom most Rogues have, depending on the 1/2 level boost, I find that Wisdom based characters with the Perception skill as a class skill (wisdom based characters tend to find a way to enhance perception, even if it's not a class skill), found traps more often than Rogues. That, and Detect Magic is something nearly everyone seems to have, so magical traps are often more obvious to the magic users than to Rogues anyways.

So, high Dexterity as primary
Con can be 2nd, or even 3rd as long as it's at least a 14. You need at least 5 burn so you can have 3 burn for your Overflow, 1 for use, and one that you keep as a backup.
Int is important for the skills, and I would also recommend at least a 14. That's 6 skills per level (Perception, Sleight, Disable, Acrobats, Stealth, and eventually, Fly)
Strength is an obvious dump stat, which can be offset later with either Mulecords or Heavyload Belt if needed, but you might want to keep some Strength for your Chainmail Shirt later on.
Wisdom is not dumpable (Will is our weakness, and Perception is still important), so "extra" points go there.
Charisma is dumpable.

Sadly, you don't -really- get a choice on Wild Talents, although they make it look like you do. Infusions are really limited to Pushing, then Bowling (since obviously you're not wanting to get into melee). And while Utility seems more open, the choices are really Finesse (Your rogue ability), then Haul or Heal, and either Self-TK, Invis, or whichever one you didn't pick at 4th level. This can be resolved a bit by taking the Extra Wild Talent feat at 3rd level, gaining Heal/Haul. Personally, I take Haul as quickly as possible because lifting level*100 for free, or level*1000 for a burn... well, even a boulder-covered cave entrance isn't going to be a problem for you... muchless that gate which dropped down in front of you. (even a 20th level Wizard with Telekinesis can only lift as much as a 4th level telekineticist)

As for Feats, the Extra Wild Talent can be useful later on, but the rest of your feats can either go towards boosting your Blast(meh), or boosting your Thievery: Deft Hands, Stealthy, Skill Focus. Similarly, since you want to stay out of combat, Dodge/Mobility are good picks; as well as boosting Acrobatics (a class skill nonetheless) with skill focus (or Acrobatic) and magic items may allow you to move around without worrying about AoOs. Unlike other classes, you have the extra feats and item slots to focus on these things.

Items: Aside from the obvious for all Kineticists (Cloak of Resistance, Amulet of NA, Mithral Chainmail shadow/creeping, Arrowmaster's bracers/Bracers of Archery, dex/con belt, etc), the Thief/TK can focus items on boosting skills. Shoes for acrobatics and movement out of combat, gloves for boosting sleight/disable, but a really important and often forgotten is the Headband of Vast Intelligence. This is more important than a Con/Dex boost due to it adding your HD to any one skill of choice (2 skills at +4). Whereas a rogue needs to focus more on armour, a good weapon, etc... you can aim for one of these. This offsets your weaknesses in skill, both in perception and in disabling of devices. There are no darker bluer items for a TK/thief to take in my opinion.

So, to whomever shall one day make the optimized kineticist document, hope this helps some. :) I can't imagine a more effective thief than one who can turn invis at will, can fly anywhere, and can steal things without being there, or open traps without endangering anyone.

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A recommendation... Can the Wild Talents be made more utility-inclusive.

Example... "Touchsight" for Telekinesis only shows its combat usefulness. Touchsight can be so much more, the ability to "feel" things, giving bonuses to Disable Device for example, or for detecting an illusion by spending a move action to "feel" something.

Kinetic Healer could give an Aether boost to Craft skills (since I'm supposing the reason Aethers can heal is because they can realign broken bones, close off leaking veins, etc...)

And personally... I think someone got TK and Air backwards on the whole flight thing... :P Pushing Air around to get yourself into the air would more akin to Jets, and maneuvering your body (without needing an outside force) seems more along the lines of Wings of Air... And I say this as a Sylph who has Wings of Air as a feat so doesn't even need/want either of those. Thematically, it just makes more sense to me that TK has the better flight, and air the uncontrolled flight.

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As far as I recall, the only PCs to get Spell Resistance at all are Drow. They get 6 + Class Level, and although I don't see much chatter on that these days, I recall when the book came out, it was a huge deal, and people were house ruling things to not allow this. I know in my games, I removed the "plus their class levels" from that text.

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I've play tested some Elementalists that I posted a year or so ago on here, and have ironed out many/most of the kinks (I hope). While I realize that most of you have too much to do to go reading some pdf file, for those that have time to spare, please consider checking out the following pdf and let me know if you can find ways to totally abuse the system?

I've tried various things, such as a low-int Earth Elementalist, using elementalists as a dip class, etc. It 'seems' balanced to me and the group I've run this with, but some things weren't very deeply tested (since playing the game was a higher importance than trying to break the system :P).

I realize that there's an obligatory need for people to point at some totally other elementalist class when they read the subject line, but I'm not looking for someone else's work, I'm looking to check the balance of my own please. :)

Sphynx's Elementalist Class

Next step will be to add some Archetypes and a few magic items we came up with, but the class itself is pretty finished unless you find some obvious hiccups in the rules as written. :)

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Apocalypso wrote:

I'm building a (sylph) sky druid for an upcoming homebrew nautical campaign.

Other characters are undine monk, half-orc barbarian, human ranger, and ? bard.

I'm leaning towards the Winds domain instead of the (Roc) animal companion, as we have lots of melee and are short on blasting.

I think it's a great idea, especially if you're on boats. Knocking people off boats is nice, and a full BAB for the Wind Blast is sweet.


So far I've come up with S10, D15, C10, W17, Ch12 (20 pt build)

Racial Traits:
Elemental Affinity Air (+1 CL) vs Air Insight (+2 rounds to summons)?

Have you considered Breeze Kissed? +2 rounds is surely sweet, but you'll be flying doing ranged bull rushes, and most likely drawing the ire and fire of archers below...

Guess it depends what sorts of summons you have planned of course.


Thunderous Resistance (sonic res 5) instead of Elec Res 5. Get Elec Res 10 at 6th level.

Sky Speaker (speak with air animals) instead of Feather Fall. Get perma feather fall at 2nd level.

Just a reminder... Whispering Wind is also sweet for someone that can and will be summoning fogs and clouds. :P (speaking of, don't forget the Feat of Cloud Gazer for when you're in those conditions)


Gifted Adept: Call Animal, +1 CL

Reactionary ??

Spell Focus: Conjuration, on my way to Augment Summons.

I expect we'll get to mid-levels (8-12), so I don't really want to build out to 20th.

But I would love suggestions on good weapons, spells, summons, wild-shapes, feats, etc for a nautical campaign. Thanks in advance for the help.

As I'm learning with my Wizard, Fogs (Obscuring Mist) are kickin' when you have Cloud Gazer as a Feat. ;) Especially as a flyer with ranged attacks as a focus.

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While I currently am really only level 2, I've been playing around with where I want my character to go, and by level 10, he really is and has
everything he wants to be or have. I've not been this crazy about a character in over 20 years, seriously.

Thus, I feel this obligation to just share the character. Can't post him under 'Advise', though I would like Advise if anyone has any, simply
because he's not really optimized at all, save in theme.

Sylph (Air) Wizard (10) (NG)


  • Strength: 8
  • Dexterity: 18
  • Constitution: 10
  • Intelligence: 20
  • Wisdom: 10
  • Charisma: 10

  • Appraise: +14
  • Fly: +21
  • Knowledge (Arcana): +18
  • Knowledge (Nature): +18
  • Linguistics: +12
  • Perception: +10
  • Spellcraft: +18
  • Stealth: +22

Feats and Traits
  • Racial Trait - Whispering Wind (+4 Stealth)
  • Highlander Trait (Stealth is Class Skill, +1 Stealth)
  • Cloud Gazer (Ignore fog/mists/cloud)
  • Combat Casting (+4 Concentration for Defensive Spells)
  • Eschew Materials
  • Fast Study
  • Spell Mastery (Vanish, Windy Escape, Invisibility, Gaseous Form, <undecided>)
  • Uncanny Concentration (Ignore movement penalties to Concentration, always take a +2 on Concentration checks)
  • Craft Wand

  • Handy Haversack with Spellbook, Wand of Haste, a wide variety of Scrolls and material for Wand construction.
  • Cloak of Resistance +4
  • Ring of Telekinesis

Spells (Typical memorized spells are marked with an asterix and a number if memorized multiple times).
  • SPELL LIST [list]

  • Cantrips (typically memorized only)
    • Detect Magic
    • Read Magic
    • Mage Hand
    • Light

  • Level 1
    • Alter Winds
    • Feather Fall
    • Floating Disk
    • Mage Armour
    • Obscuring Mist
    • Unseen Servant
    • Vanish
    • Windy Escape (*6)

  • Level 2
    • Fog Cloud
    • Gust of Wind
    • Gusting Sphere
    • Invisibility (*5)
    • Levitate
    • Pilfering Hand

  • Level 3
    • Cloak of Winds
    • Elemental Aura
    • Fly
    • Gaseous Form (*5)
    • Haste
    • Invisibility Sphere
    • Wind Wall

  • Level 4
    • Black Tentacles (*2)
    • Invisibility, Greater
    • River of Wind (*2)
    • Solid Fog

  • Level 5
    • Telekinesis (*3)
    • Wall of Force

    In play, he relies heavily on Scrolls and the Wand... His memorized spells are focused on invisibility and incorporeal. Thinking of creating a House Rule'd Prestige Class for him maybe... With some sort of "Ghost/Phantom/Wraith" title/theme. Failing that, just stick to Wizard I suppose.