Sphynx's page

Organized Play Member. 873 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 2 Organized Play characters.

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I've had a concept in my mind based on the Wardancers of the Warhammer Fantasy Wood Elf army, and wanted to just slightly increase their mystical nature (Ie: some spells, in addition to their enchanted blades). Since they are dual-wielding types I was bending over backwards trying to create a multi-class fighter/wizard(or sorcerer) creation when I finally just decided to hybrid them, and the more I hybrided them, the more Magus they seemed... so I tried an Archetype instead. I -think- it's balanced, but would like some input from others, since I've not played anything like a Magus in quite a long time (Not since the Kineticists came out). Tried to take away more than I added, but not sure I'm objective enough on this.

Elven Blade Master

Elven blade masters are a group of noble born warriors of Xoth Sarandi, trained in both the martial arts of the blade as well as in the mystical arts. The difference between them and other members of the Magus class is that they see the weapon as the tool of the martial aspects, and keep it separated from the mystical aspects of their training. They use a pair of blades and perform katas that appear almost like a dancer, allowing them to flow through a battle much as water flows through a sand barrier.

Class Skills: Elven blade masters gain Perform [Dance] (Cha) as a class skill. This modifies the class skills of the magus.

Diminished Spellcasting
Due to their martial focus, they do not learn to project spells towards living targets, and instead focus most of their spell casting on themselves. When generating the Difficulty Class to resist a spell, the elven blade master always treats her intelligence bonus as 0.

Arcane Pool (Su)
When calculating the amount of arcane points in his pool, an elven blade master uses his whole level rather than half his level, however when using the reservoir of mystical energy to fuel and enhance his weapons, he must spend 2 points from his arcane pool, but gains the benefits onto both of his weapons when doing so. This ability modifies the arcane pool ability of the magus class.

Two Weapon Fighting (Ex)
Elven blade masters start the game with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat as a bonus feat, however, she must meet the requisite of the feat to gain the benefits the feat. This ability replaces Spell Combat.

Two Bladed Defense (Ex)
At second level, an elven blade master gains +1 shield bonus to her AC anytime that she is wielding two light bladed weapons, and wearing light or no armour. This increases by another +1 every 5 levels after 2nd level. The elven blade master may spend one point from their arcana pool to add the enhancement bonus of a single weapon they are wielding to their AC. Note: this is an enhancement bonus, so would not stack with the enhancement bonus of magical armour. This ability replaces spellstrike, medium armour and heavy armour.

Magus Arcana
At third level, the elven blade master gains the dual bladed magus arcana automatically (See below), in place of the Arcana she would otherwise receive at 3rd level. This alters the magus arcana ability of the magus class and replaces the improved spell combat as well as the greater spell combat of the class.

Bonus Feats
Elven blade masters do not gain the bonus feats that other members of the magus class receive, rather they receive Improved Two Weapon Fighting at 8th level as a free bonus feat, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting at 16th level as a free bonus feat. They must still meet the prerequisites of the feats to benefit from them.

Elven Blade Master (Su)
At 20th level, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus to all attacks made when wielding two light bladed weapons. This ability replaces the true magus ability of the magus class.

Magus Arcana:
Dual Bladed (Su)
Benefit: When wielding 2 light bladed weapons, she may spend a single point from her arcane pool to use Dexterity instead of Strength in determining damage with her primary hand. This effect lasts for one minute. At 7th level, she may add her dexterity bonus to her damage rolls for both weapons rather than just the primary weapon during this effect, this raises the cost to two points from her arcane pool..

I'm making a character for a level 16 game, where we were told to feel free to optimize because it'll be a tough game (And there's already a Divine Archer/Paladin). So rather than go for my usual weakest-character-in-the-party build, I thought I'd try something I've always been curious on...

Kasatha with 4 Kukris. However, aside from realizing that I need the two-weapon feat tree, the improved critical feat I can't figure out where I want to go from there. Fighter seems the obvious choice, but also seems a bit boring, and I don't really know which feats to take other than those listed and Weapon Finesse.

Rogue lacks the boredom, and lets me add my Dex to all 4 attacks for damage at 3rd level+, but as a 2/3 BAB seems like I might be struggling to hit... and dependent on sneak attacks (which isn't a terrible thing).

Hunter seems interesting since I seem to be feat-light... alloing me some spells and such.

I have a feeling that I can't support that Swashbuckler might be a good choice, but no guns allowed in our game.

Can anyone help me with a really great 4-weapon build? (I do not want to go Archer, despite the Kasatha archetype available)

The Syrinx, protected by their lofty monastery-cities, high on the cliff-side of the tallest mountains, rely primarily on their devastating hunters to feed the elite amongst them, leaving the lower classes and slaves in their wingless forms, to toil the ground for their food. The greatest of the hunters gain partners amongst the breed of giant owls from the region, these giant owls do not gain the true size of the greatest of the giant owls, often barely reaching 2 meters in height, though ranging up to 16 meters in height. These 2 form a partnership which pits them against each other in striving for greatness in skill.

Winged Parliament is a racial archetype for the elusive Syrinx race presented in the Pathfinder Inner Seas volume. Although intended for Syrinx, it is available to the Strix race as well.

Animal Companion (Ex)
When choosing an animal companion, members of the Winged Parliament must select a Giant Owl as their companion (Or a Roc, if a member of the Strix race). Use the Roc Companions statistics and 7th level Advancement to create the companion. This alters the Animal Companion class feature.

Paragon (Su)
At first level, a Syrinx Hunter loses the racial Nocturnal bonus to the Stealth skill, replacing it with a permanent Animal Focus of the Owl, in addition to improving their fly maneuverability to good. At 8th level they replace the Nocturnal advantage entirely, gaining in place an additional permanent Animal Focus of the Falcon, in addition to their fly maneuverability improving to perfect. This replaces Wild Empathy, Swift Tracker and their Second Animal Focus.

Royalty (Ex)
At 5th level, a Syrinx and her animal companion gain the Wingover feat as a bonus feat, and has their fly speed increased by +10 for every 5 class levels. This replaces Woodland Stride and Bonus Tricks class features.

Working on a 12th level Syrinx Hunter, with a Roc Companion (The closest I could get to a Giant Owl).

Any general advice on the direction I should go? I was thinking Stealth Synergy with Flyby Attack and Death from Above, the low dex is bothersome...

The only Hunter guide is missing so much info (or expects you to go back and forth between different guides to evaluate companions and such). And of course, fails to address unique races (for obvious reasons), such as the Syrinx...

So I guess basically what I'm asking is... are there any things that are must-haves for a solid build? Magic items? Feats? Priority list for Teamwork feats (particular with a low Dex)?

I have a player suggesting the following. I'm considering allowing it, but thought I'd get some input from the community first.

Agile Fist: At 1st level, an unarmed monk is allowed to use his Dexterity bonus in place of his Strength bonus for both attack bonus and damage bonus, when using Flurry of Attacks. This replaces Stunning Fist.

My concern is that I don't want Strength to be a 'dump' stat for a Monk, so would personally like a way of including a strength requisite into the rules. Then again, one could just take Weapon Finesse and an Agile Amulet of the Fists and get these benefits anyhows. So I can't tell if it's underpowered, or overpowered, or if I should even be concerned about someone with a potential Strength as low as 5 doing this level of damage in melee... :/

Help please?

Our level 12 Bard has the Leadership feat, and I let him build his own minion because his last one turned into a PC (one-shot guest keeps returning :P)

He has almost no offense really, the minion that is, but his defense is pretty formidable. Admittedly, he was built as a 'bodyguard' for the Bard, who is very non-combatant, which is ok... but as a Paladin/Sacred Shield, his 'defense' is contagious to the rest of the party.

Question being, should I allow as-is, or should I have him make changes? I'm in no way wanting to use this as a chance to mess with him... I'm sure he has no intention of abusing it, I just don't want to walk into something I'm not ready for...


Human paladin (warrior of the holy light, sacred shield) 10
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +0
Aura courage (10 ft.), resolve (10 ft.), power of light
AC 37, touch 19, flat-footed 34 (+10 armor, +6 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 dodge, +8 shield)
hp 104 (10d10+40)
Fort +15, Ref +11, Will +12
DR 2/—; Immune charm, disease, fear
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee spiked gauntlet +11/+6 (1d4+3)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +14)
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18
Base Atk +10; CMB +13; CMD 33
Feats Bodyguard, Combat Patrol, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Tower Shield Proficiency
Skills Diplomacy +13, Handle Animal +13, Heal +6, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Ride +0, Sense Motive +9
Languages Common
SQ bastion of good, divine bond, holy shield, lay on hands 11/day (5d6), living steel, mercies (diseased, poisoned, sickened)
Other Gear +4 benevolent adamantine agile breastplate, +4 living steel tower shield , spiked gauntlet, belt of physical perfection +2 , cloak of resistance +1 , heavy horse (combat trained)

Thanks for any advise. :)

Recommended costs for the following items?

WindStorm Shirt
Description: This dark-grey, silk shirt whips about constantly as if being blown by a strong wind; the effect making it appear as if dark storm clouds are constantly rolling across it.
Effect: If the wearer is capable of flight, or under the effects of a fly spell, she may use a swift action to fly her fly speed a number of times a day equal to her level. This has no effect if the wearer is not personally capable of flight, such as using a flying carpet.

Cost thoughts:

Quickrunner Shirt allows movement as a swift action once a day. Reverse-engineering, where the cost of something is reduced by <number of times a day>/5, that would imply that a Quickrunner Shirt would cost 5,000 if it was an all-day effect. Of course, that would be way over-powered, but might be ok if there was a limitation (like #levels per day and limited to one form of movement). So seems that 5,000gp would be about right?

I'm torn about making it a piece of armour (same stats as a ceremonial silken robe) or not. Obviously I want armour, but thematically (the description) it wouldn't make sense to wear my ceremonial silken robe over it...

WindStorm Gloves
Description: These thin leather gloves are dark-grey and finely stitched. The finger-tips are left open, allowing ones fingers to protrude just slightly enough to allow for proper feeling for delicate tasks.
Effect: The gloves contain unseen extra-dimensional spaces on both the back and palm. The spaces in the back are just enough to hold a single small item weighing no more than 1lb, or a set of thieves' tools. The palm sides however, are capable of holding as much as 5lbs of material each. This not only grants the wearer extra space to hold things, but a +5 to both Sleight of Hand checks (assuming the palm extra-dimensional spaces are not already full), and Disable Device checks.
This otherwise uses the same rules as a bag of holding, which means reaching into a bag of holding, or handy haversack, while wearing these gloves can have disastrous effects.

Cost Thoughts:

+5 to 2 skills is 5,000 historically. Bag of Holding (Minor) and Handy Haversack are 1,000 and carry a lot more weight. So 6,000?

Windstorm Boots
Description: These fine leather boots, which are colored similar to a storm cloud, have softened soles and tiny wings at the ankles. They wrap tightly around the calves of the wearer when worn.
Effect: When worn, the wearer doubles their movement speed, up to a maximum of +30 to that movement speed. This effect may be used a number of movements per day equal to the level of the wearer.

Cost Thoughts:

Boots of Speed grant this via the Haste spell, but this item lacks the bonus to-hit and of course, the bonus attack per-round (both being the better 1/3rds of the boots). So, 1/3rd of that would be 4,000. 4,000 seem about right?

Thanks for the advise. :)

Levitate Allies
Element Aether; Type utility (Sp); Level 3; Burn 0
Prerequisite telekinetic haul
You can move a number of willing creatures or objects, up to 30' in a single direction, even upward. The number of creatures is dependent on their weight as per the telekinetic haul wild talent, including the option to accept burn to increase the weight limit. The creatures may not be restrained in a way that would prevent movement; such as being grappled, and must all be within a 30' radius. If you end your turn before the creatures are on solid ground, they will begin falling on your next turn unless you use levitate allies again.

Levitate Enemies
Element Aether; Type utility (Sp); Level 5; Burn 1
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes Prerequisite levitate allies
You are able to lift and restrain several targets in the air. This has the effect of preventing any movement, including a 5' move, though they can still perform other actions such as fighting or spell-casting as normal. This is a combat maneuver using your Constitution modifier in place of your Intelligence or Charisma modifier. The maximum number of opponents is based on their weight as per the telekinetic haul talent, and all opponents must be within 30' of each other. Additional burn for increased weight is not allowed when using this talent. Combat maneuver checks to continue holding those targets that fail their CMD check, receive a +5 circumstance bonus to hold them in place in the following turn, though you do not have to expend any burn to maintain the levitation in followup rounds against those targets, until they either succeed in their CMD check, or you fail to maintain your hold on them.

Zephyr (Sylph Racial Kineticist Archetype)

The sylph race has the strongest attunement possible with the element of air, being offsprings of the planar denizens. This connection allows them to more finely manipulate wind in a manner resembling the effects of a telekineticist.

Motion Focus (Ex): At 1st level, a zephyr must choose air as her primary element, and when expanding into another element, she must always choose air; however she is treated as having both aether and air as her primary element for selection of infusions and utility wild talents, and gains the basic wild talents of both elements. She may only gain a single air based kinetic blast at this time, and the other at 7th level. When she gains the air blast, it qualifies for any infusion that has the telekinetic blast as the associated blast.
At 2nd level, she gains both forms of Elemental Defense for air and aether. This alters the elemental focus, infusions, elemental defense and elemental expansion class features.

Aerokinetic Specialization (Ex): At 5th level she gains one of the following Kinetic Talents for which she qualifies for. If she does not qualify for any of the talents, she can gain the talent at a later level as soon as she does qualify for it. She gains a 2nd talent at 11th level, and the final talent at 19th level. This replaces the infusions gained at levels 3, 5, 11, 13 and 19.

Aerial Sniping (Ex):
Without a visible component, the air blast’s origin is not as discernible
Prerequisites: Air blast, 5 ranks of Stealth.
When using the air blast, a zephyr receives a bonus to her sniping penalty as per the level 5 unchained rogue skill unlock for Stealth.
(Reduce the Stealth penalty from sniping by 10.)

Aerial Motion (Ex):
An unseen air blast acts as a perfect distraction.
Prerequisites: Aerial Sniping, 10 ranks of Stealth.
Zephyrs gain the level 10 unchained rogue skill unlock for Stealth on the same turn in which she uses the air blast.
(Stealth check penalties for moving quickly are halved, including the ability unlocked at 5 ranks, moving full speed, and reaching concealment after creating a distraction.)

Tesla Burst (Su):
Being a conduit for electricity allows one to create a flashy and effective display of power.
Prerequisites: Electric blast, kinetic fist.
This is a level 2 form infusion that costs 2 burn, with both electric blast and thunderstorm blast as associated blasts. Anything within 5’ of you takes damage as per the Kinetic Fist wild talent, as does anything that ends its turn next to you before the beginning of your next turn.

Tesla Explosion (Su):
The zephyr releases the pent up energy within her, allowing it to flow outwards.
Prerequisite: Tesla Burst.
She extends the range of her Tesla Burst to 10’, and adds +1 damage for every d6 damage caused. This is otherwise still treated as a level 2 form infusion that costs 2 burn.

Thunderstorm Finale (Su):
Nobody is more the master of the thunderstorm than those born into it.
Prerequisite: Level 19, thunderstorm blast.
When using the Thunderstorm composite blast, the zephyr has the option to convert all her blast’s die to d8’s instead of d6’s. This increases the composite blast cost to 3 burn instead of 2.

This is my latest version. I've given up on doing it for all elemental races because I just don't "feel" the other races, the way I do the Sylph race.

PPhPP : Long for Pathfinder PhP Project.

As you may or may not have known from my past posts, I've been working on a php program to make calculations easy for character creation and progression. It allows you, at a glance, to see easily if something like Power Attack is right for your character... Admittedly, only with "full round" attacks (or combos, such as the Gather Power + Kinetic Blast of a Kineticist). I was using it to compare my Kineticist to other classes, since I found the Kineticist to be far more powerful in play than other players did.

The reason for this post is to see if anyone wants to expand on this project or not. The classes are written, though addendums will be needed for feats and classes I haven't tested, and the character creation is relatively easy (and will be made even easier as time progresses). You can see the results (ignore the House Rules stuff, we play differently than most people :P) here:

Here is a quick sample of what creating a character looks like currently:

2-Weapon Warrior:


define( "HOUSERULES", true );
$level = ( $_POST['level'] ? $_POST['level'] : 1 );

$character = new character();
$character->DEBUG = $_POST["debug"] == "false" || ! $_POST["debug"] ? false : 0;

$character->race = "Human";
$character->class = "Two Weapon Fighter";

$character->babProgression = 1; // Full BAB, 2 = 3/4, 3 = 1/2
for($x=0;$x<20;$x++) $character->levelUp_HP($x);

// Level Up (Level Gained, Value) //
$character->dexterity->levelUp( 3, 2);
$character->strength->levelUp( 4, 2);
$character->dexterity->levelUp( 5, 2);
$character->strength->levelUp( 8, 2);
$character->dexterity->levelUp( 9, 2);
$character->strength->levelUp( 10, 2);
$character->constitution->levelUp( 13, 2);
$character->dexterity->levelUp( 14, 2);
$character->strength->levelUp( 15, 2);
$character->constitution->levelUp( 18, 2);
$character->dexterity->levelUp( 19, 2);
$character->constitution->levelUp( 20, 2);

$character->fortitude->goodSave = true;
$character->willpower->bonus = floor( ($level+2)/4 ); // Bravery
$character->AC->dodge += floor( ($level+1)/4 ); // Defensive Flurry

$weapAbilities = array();
if( $level >= 6 ) $weapAbilities[] = "Impervious";
if( $level >= 7 ) $weapAbilities[] = "Agile";
if( $level >= 14 ) $weapAbilities[] = "Dueling";
if( $level >= 17 ) $weapAbilities[] = "Fortuitous";
if( $level >= 10 ) $weapAbilities[] = "Adamantine";
$armAbilities = array();
if( $level >= 7 ) $armAbilities[] = "Balanced";
if( $level >= 10 ) $armAbilities[] = "Restful";
if( $level >= 16 ) $armAbilities[] = "Righteous";
if( $level >= 18 ) $armAbilities[] = "Invulnerability";
if( $level >= 4 ) $armAbilities[] = "Mithral";

$enhancement = ( $level >= 3 ? floor( 1 + ($level-6)/3 ) : 0 ); // House Rule

$rapier = new weapon();
$rapier->set_name( "Rapier" );
$rapier->add_dicePool( 1, 6, true );
if( $level >= 13 ) $rapier->add_dicePool( 2, 6 ); // Bane Baldric
$rapier->set_enh( $enhancement );
$rapier->set_abilities( $weapAbilities );
$rapier->set_crit( 18, ($level >= 20 ? 3 : 2 ) ); // Weapon Mastery
$rapier->set_bonusToHit( ( $level >= 11 ? 1 : 0 ) + ( $level >= 15 ? 1 : 0 ) + ( $level >= 13 ? 2 : 0 ) ); // Improved Balance and Perfect Balance
$rapier->add_bonusToHit( floor( ($level-1)/4 ) ); // Twin Blades

$character->add_weapon( $rapier );
$character->add_weapon( $rapier );

$character->add_armour( "Silken Ceremonial Gown", 1, 100 );

$character->add_feat(1, "Two Weapon Fighting");
$character->add_feat(1, "Weapon Finesse");
$character->add_feat(1, "Double Slice");
$character->add_feat(2, "Dodge");
$character->add_feat(3, "Weapon Focus", "Rapier");
$character->add_feat(4, "Weapon Specialization", "Rapier");
$character->add_feat(5, "Mobility");
$character->add_feat(6, "Improved Two Weapon Fighting");
$character->add_feat(7, "Combat Reflexes");
$character->add_feat(8, "Improved Critical");
$character->add_feat(9, "Greater Weapon Focus", "Rapier");
$character->add_feat(10, "Combat Patrol");
$character->add_feat(11, "Greater Two Weapon Fighting");
$character->add_feat(12, "Greater Weapon Specialization", "Rapier");
$character->add_feat(13, "Two Weapon Rend");
$character->add_feat(14, "Pin Down");
$character->add_feat(15, "Critical Focus");
$character->add_feat(16, "Bleeding Critical");
$character->add_feat(17, "Crippling Critical");
$character->add_feat(18, "Critical Mastery");
$character->add_feat(19, "Penetrating Strike");
$character->add_feat(20, "Greater Penetrating Strike");

$character->add_special( 3, "Defensive Flurry" );
$character->add_special( 5, "Twin Blades" );
$character->add_special( 9, "Doublestrike" );
$character->add_special( 11, "Improved Balance" );
$character->add_special( 13, "Equal Opportunity" );
$character->add_special( 15, "Perfect Balance" );
$character->add_special( 17, "Deft Doublestrike" );
$character->add_special( 19, "Deadly Defense" );

$character->add_gear(1, implode(", ", $armAbilities ) . ( count($armAbilities) ? " " : "" ) . "Chainshirt" );
$character->add_gear(1, "2x " . implode(", ", $weapAbilities ) . " Rapier");
$character->add_gear(13, "Bane Baldric" );


echo $character->pretty_layout();
echo "<hr>";

Places where you see comments (//) are things I still plan to implement into the character class.

Currently you'd need at least a smidging of php understanding to make a character, but I'm eventually thinking of porting this to a form and saving in a mysql database...

Again, this is just a feeler to see if anyone's interested in my making this more user friendly for you rather than keeping it as a personal tool.

Note: This really is our group, though I took liberties to push them through level 20. The fighter is actually 2 levels lower than the Bard, who has him as a Cohort, he is not a PC of the group. ;)

I'm working on automating some stuff for our games and came across an archetype I'd not posted yet. Thought someone might like this.

Influential Diplomat
Not all Bards are performance oriented, these bards act as diplomats to foreign and hostile areas, striving to bring peace.

Why can't we all just get along?
No npc is hostile towards the diplomat unless attacked or provoked into attacking the diplomat. This works as if the diplomat had succeeded in a diplomacy test with a single success. The diplomat may still make a diplomacy test to increase the number of steps, but must roll against the actual attitude of the npc before the effect of this feature. At 7th level, the diplomat receives a +5 competence bonus on any diplomacy test to influence attitude. At level 13, hostile enemies will still go out of their way to avoid attacking the diplomat. This replaces the bardic performance class feature.

Influential Charisma
As of 2nd level, any bluff, diplomacy or intimidate roll may use the diplomat's level in place of skill ranks. This replaces the versatile performance class feature.

NOTE: This was made for a old-aged non-combatant/pacifist Gnome Illusionist Bard. He refuses to carry a weapon, wear armour, or have anything to do with combat. Obviously, his end result is a lot weaker than the typical bard, but he just couldn't see himself singing and playing musical instruments as we went dungeon crawling. It's probably not most people's cup of tea, but it's nice that we have someone to handle all our "social" conflicts in the group. And his illusions are nice too. ;)

2 people marked this as a favorite.

After the eye-opening comments by Calethos, I began to understand why my archetypes were so failing... not only because I was trying to under-dog them to be viably acceptable, but because I was trying to merge them into a single archetype, losing a lot of their "theme" in the process... so, while still a work-in-progress, here's my enlightened attempt to do it again.


Ifrit - The goal being to make them the the -best- at pyrokineticism. If you want a powerful blaster, this should fit the bill without breaking things in the process.

Oread - Lacking dex/con as a bonus, I made them pure-blade (like the Jaedai), and made sure they could use their bonus to strength to enhance their melee abilities, so they can actually dump dex now, and pump up con/str.

Sylph - The real 'utility' archetype of the class, not much different than my previous attempt, but this time with fewer penalties.

Undine - What the Chirurgen could have looked like, and still have been effective in combat. Good healers without sacrificing offense.

Suli - Unlimited on elements. Unlike Caletho's version earlier which tends to force them to focus on a single type of blast, I kept my generalized to all elements but at the huge price of reduced Utility wild talents.

Click HERE to see...

Would seriously love some input from anybody. :)

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I hope this to be my final attempt at this... it finally starts to feel like what I'm wanting in an archetype. I just worry that they perhaps get too many utility wild talents... :/

Elemental Kineticist - Kineticist Racial Archetype

I have a problem that I can't seem to resolve without destroying a characters usefulnes...

I'm so torn between Aerokineticist and Aetherkineticist that if I ever got a chance to play a gestalt game, I'd play double-class kineticist just to get all the utilities and a lightning blast.

I keep trying to build a proper archetype that would somehow let me double-down on utilities, but not become ineffective in combat. I'm thinking it'd have to be an Outsider (element) Archetype that either gives Aether utilities to the character, or forces them to choose Aether initially and get their element as a bonus. Anyone have any ideas? I want to start with electrical attacks, telekinetic utilities, and air utilities, but not be overpowered. :/

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Jaedai Knight - Kineticist Archetype
The Jaedai Knights are an order of Knights who focus on an element they refer to as "The Force". This is an element which bears many semblances to the Aether element, except that whereas most kineticist draw from the Ethereal Plane, a Jaedai Knight draws from the Astral Plane, giving them power over the mind.

Prerequisite: Kineticist with Aether elemental focus.

Light Saber (Su): All Jaedai Knights start with the Kinetic Blade infusion, however this only works if they have a device through which to focus their blast, which all characters start with. Through the use of crystals, harnessed in a mithral casing, she is able to focus the far more random power of the Astral plane into a weapon. Once a Kinetic Blade is formed, it is sustained turn by turn as a simple action unless the device harnessing the crystal is dropped. Replacing or fixing a damaged or sundered light saber requires 2d4 days, 2 lbs of Mithral and a crystal worth no less than 1,000 GP. The jaedai receives a +10 to their CMD to avoid having their light sabers sundered.

A Jaedai Knight is treated as having fighter levels equal to his levels as a kineticist for the purpose of qualifying for feats, but only with the light saber. Otherwise, all other rules for the Kinetic Blade remain the same, such as it never counting as being wielded.

Infusions (Su): Jaedai Knights can not gain the Kinetic Whip infusion. This alters the infusion class feature.

Utility Wild Talents (Su): Jaedai Knights have access to the following Aether utility wild talents: basic telekinesis, kinetic healer, telekinetic finesse, telekinetic haul, touchsight, telekinetic maneuvers, self telekinesis (but not the greater version) and touchsight (reactive). In addition, they may gain Astral utility wild talents listed below.

Kinetic Blast (Su): Jaedai Knights do not gain the ability to shoot ranged blasts, and are limited to using their Light sabers for their kinetic blasts. This alters the kinetic blast class feature.

Elemental Defense (Su): Once per round, when your light saber is activated, you can deflect any attack against you by making an attack roll against the roll used to attack you. You must exceed, not match, the attacker’s roll in order to deflect the attack. This replaces the elemental defense class feature.

Power of Light (Su): Upon reaching 7th level, your light saber increases it’s critical to 19-20/x3 instead of the default of 20/x2. You can spend 1 burn to double the critical of the light saber for 1 round per level. At 16th level the critical increases to 18-20/x3 and the damage of the Kinetic Blade, and for 2 burn you can add your Elemental Overflow damage bonus to attacks made within the duration. This replaces the Expanded Element and the Composite Specialization class features.

Wild Talents, Utility

Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 0; Saving Throw: Will negates
You are able to change the attitude of a creature at a small level. Turning rage into annoyance, happiness into discomfort, or give a feeling of apathy to anyone that is not under a strong emotional influence. This can shift any creature’s attitude towards the party by 1 degree. From Hostile to Unfriendly to Indifferent to Friendly to Helpful, though this may only be used on any creature once per day.

Influence, Greater
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 4; Burn 0
You are able to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature, one time per day per creature.

Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 0
You are able create a single minor illusion that are purely visual as per the Silent Image spell, though the size of the illusion can be large or greater. This illusion requires a move action to maintain.

Sense Life
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 4; Burn 0
You are able to sense the presence of a living being by focusing on an area within 120’ of yourself. When activated, you are treated as under the influence of a See Invisible spell for anything within 30’ of the area you focus upon, though you must still have line of sight to actually see your target(s). This lasts for as long as you spend a standard action focusing on that area.

Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 3; Burn 0
You receive insights of the future. This grants you a +4 bonus on all initiative tests, for 1 minute per level. Accept 1 burn to have this effect last until the next time you recover burn.

Enhanced Athleticism
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 1; Burn 0
As the Air’s Leap talent. Additionally, you can add your levels in burn to all balance checks.

Greater Enhanced Athleticism
Element(s) astral; Type utility (Sp); Level 2; Burn 0
You gain the effects of the Endurance feat for 1 minute per level. While under this effect your running speed is equal to 5x your normal movement speed instead of 4. Accept 1 burn to have this effect last until the next time you recover burn.

Not all Kineticists develop their powers under the influence of dungeons and wilderness, where haphazard use of powers isn't bound to wrought collateral destruction. Their blasts have to be more precise, and they gain more use of utility talents than their kinetic peers.
Controlled Burn (Su): An urban kineticist reduces the amount of burn they can accept per round by one, starting at zero burn for the first 6 levels. They can still use burn from gather power or specializations that reduce burn to zero. This alters the burn class feature.

Urban Talents (Su): The urban kineticist focuses only on controlling their blast, not on the effects of their blasts. They do not get to learn any substance infusions, but learn their form infusions at 1st level, and every 4 levels thereafter starting at 5th level. After first level, all form infusions are treated as one level lower for determining if they can be learned. Unlike other kineticists, they gain their utility wild talents at every level in which they do not gain an infusion talent from this class feature. This alters the infusions and wild talents class features.

Extended Form (Su): At 5th level the urban kineticist may use the extended form infusion along with any other form infusion, except for the extreme range infusion, but must pay the additional 1 point of burn for using the extended form infusion, though this cost may be offset by the infusion specialization class feature as normal. She must still have learned the extended form infusion to benefit from this feature.

Damage for Defense (Su): When expanding into a new element, the urban kineticist does not learn any composite blasts, nor may she learn them at a later time. She does however gain the expanded defense of the new element. This alters the Expanded Element class feature.

Extreme Form (Su): At 16th level the urban kineticist may use the extreme form infusion when using any other form infusion. Otherwise this works as the extended form class feature but with the cost being 2 burn. This replaces the composite specialization class feature.

Before using this, please understand that it is intentionally weaker than the base class. No use of burn for the first 6 levels is huge, and some of the very best infusions are substance (such as Magnetic, my personal favorite). Do not use this archetype lightly.

I built it because I found it annoying just how many "Extra Wild Talent" feats I have to take to feel complete. This also allows me to create an Aether Kineticist who can Foe Throw up to 120' away (or 480' later). The reduced burn-per-turn is an important balancing factor in that it prevents you from combining many infusions too early.

So, I can Gather Power (no move) for the 1st 6 levels to hit something more than 30' away. At 5th level (infusion spec) I can either do this without gathering power, or foe-throw for 2 burn with 1 burn offset by specialization and 1 burn offset by gather power. At 6th level (can finally use a burn per turn) I don't need to gather power to use foe-throw, or if I use foe-throw, I can throw them up to 120' away (with gather power, and spending 1 burn). Etc, etc...

My thanks to everyone who helped me do the calculations and corrected my many mistakes in playing the game and class. If anyone sees any mistakes, please feel free to holler at me here. :) ng

As I mentioned in my Telekinetic Guide thread, I've been analyzing numerically, the damage of the Kineticist. When I first made my Kineticist, I went more with gut feeling than numbers, and evaluated it as "awesome" damage. With numbers, my following comments may seem less than raving, but it is not intended as a tear-down of the class. Not only is this the only class I'll ever play again (in PF anyhows), I still rate it as 5-stars in all regards.

That being said, and we measured DPRs for all sorts of classes/characters to try and get an "average" in damage output, at all 20 levels (we're programmers, so we wrote a php class to do this, then pumped it with different character builds).

It's obviously not fool-proof, but it gave us an idea of the "average" dpr we should be expecting for any class that focuses on doing damage, -but- without using limited resources (so avoiding Smite Evil, Rage, Etc...) or situational (Preferred domain, sneak attack, etc)

Here's the rounded averages per level (basic full-attack actions, no magic):
1) 5
2) 6
3) 8
4) 10
5) 12
6) 15
7) 20
8) 40 (Boots of Speed Boost)
9) 50
10) 55
11) 65
12) 70
13) 80
14) 90
15) 100
16) 110
17) 120
18) 140
19) 150
20) 175

Note: Some of these numbers are deflated due to evaluating 2-handed/2-weapon along with sword-n-boards. Without Sword and Boards, the DPR was +10(80) by level 12, +20(110) by level 15 and +25(200) by level 20.

Then, using Kineticist (no burn, but move-action to Gather)... we have the following DPR
** DPR vs AC of Level+14. Starting Dex/Con = 17 each.
(##%) is percent chance to hit AC of Level+14 with a physical blast.

1) (40%) 3,15 = -2
2) (40%) 3,15 = -3
3) (45%) 7 = -1
4) (45%) 7,5 = -2.5
5) (40%) 12,6 = +0.5 (Maximize Boost)
6) (55%) 20,4 = +5 (+2Con/Dex, Belt Physical Might +2)
7) (55%) 25,2 = +5
8) (60%) 27,3 = -13 (No Boots of Speed Boost)
9) (60%) 33,15 = -16
10) (65%) 36,4 = -19 (Belt +4)
11) (65%) 42.7 = -22
12) (70%) 48.75 = -21 (Con4, Dex2) // Note: (Dex4, Con2) has slightly better DPR, but not enough to be worth the lower Con.
13) (70%) 54 = -26 (Belt +6)
14) (70%) 54 = -36
15) (75%) 66.4 = -33
16) (85%) 75.6 = -35 (Con4, Dex6) // Note: (Con6, Dex4 has a much lower DPR)
17) (80%) 76.5 = -43
18) (85%) 83.7 = -56
19) (85%) 124.2 = -26 (Maximize + Empower, -2 for SuperCharge, -1 for Metakinetic Master)
20) (85%) 124.2 = -51

We come out almost exactly even with a non-fighter, melee type using a sword-n-board build.

The reason I show this is 2-fold. 1) Seems a waste to not share these findings so people can compare their builds with what the "average" should be at a given level, and I'm hoping people collaborate a bit to fine-tune these numbers for precision purposes... and 2) Because in my guide, I want to give an honest evaluation of how the class compares to others for damage, so they don't feel like they did something wrong when building the character. Throwing the same numbers together, I also evaluate how important (for the TKer) that stealth and invisibility are, for the obvious +4 (+20%) to hit (+2 and an average +2 from targeting flat-footed instead of base AC) which by level 16 gives you a 95% chance to hit (2+) even without using touch-ac, and gives about roughly a 10% boost to DPR.

I'm also seeing why I always thought it was super easy to hit with my blasts since I started testing at level 8, which (with my high use of stealth) often took my 60% chance to hit up to 80%.

So... do my numbers seem off to anyone? We seem to have the absolute best "to hit" in the game, which I guess is kinda required when you're a 1-hit per-round build, low end on the DPR despite that. This seems to me to imply that a guide should have players focus on effects more than damage...

After lengthy discussions, I'm thinking instead of some monk/druid hybrid which risks balancing issues, to just add in some Ki Powers for the player.

I have 2 Ki Powers that -mostly- simulates what he wants without requiring him to morph into Dire Tiger.

Ki Bite - Gain a Bite (1d6) Attack with a full strength bonus added to damage. Spend 1 Ki to have this effect for 1 minute per level. Must be 8th level to take this power.

Ki Jaw - Prerequisite: Ki Bite. Spend 1 from your Ki Pool to double the dice for any natural attack. This effect lasts for 1 minute per level.

Also thinking of simulating Pounce (natural attacks only) as a Ki power... It seems fair to me, basically granting an additional natural attack with his 2 claw attacks, to stack with his Flurry of Blows (albeit at -5 to attacks). And a "Strong Jaw" spell at the cost of 2 ki.

His goal is a whirlwind of death (how many attacks can you squeeze into a round). This puts him at a couple of attacks higher than Greater Two Weapon Fighting, but without the bonus Critical that Rapiers get (which I -think- balances out evenly). And while true that TWF requires 3 feats to do fully, he'll undoubtedly have to spend a lot of feats getting the Ki Pool necessary to do this multiple times a day, as well as fuel his other powers...

House Rule: Catfolk Monks can take Guardian Feline as a Ki Power at 8th level.

I want to maximize my natural attacks and having already gotten to Dire Tiger with the aforementioned house rule, and am wondering what to do next. I have a Helm of the Mammoth (So more of a Dire Sabretooth), and Agile Amulet of Might Fists (very high Dex). So a Pounce'd: Gore, Bite (Grab), Claw (Grab), Claw (Grab), Rake.

Is there a reason to stay in the Monk Class? I was thinking of going War Priest (Sacred Claws, which I -think- would also apply to the Rake), or maybe Fighter for the feats (or maybe dip a lot for all the classes that give multiple feats at 1st level). I realize there's the Bear Fisted Fighting guide, but it's a bit out-dated with Unchained... and the latest comments suggest that it shouldn't be used with Unchained. Are there any suggestions here?

I have a player that wants to play half unchained-monk, half druid... seemed like a good opportunity to conjure up a Monk/Druid hybrid class... any suggestions?

Obviously he's not that into the Druid spells, but a way to Dire Tiger into a Flurry of Blows... pounce/rake/grab...

My initial thoughts are to straight up replace Ki Pool/Ki Powers with Wild Shape (both are level 4's, so that's pretty straightforward). But Monk Powers are more equivalent to Druid Spells, so I'm afraid I'm taking a bit much here...

Guessing I'd have to rewrite Flurry of Blows to work with Natural Weapons. Basically letting you "add" an extra Attack to one of your Natural attacks at 1st and 11th levels, and granting Improved Natural Attack feat to the class at various levels...?


Your deity helps you keep your Oaths, giving you the tools needed to fulfill them.

Prerequisite: You may only take the Greater Oathbound archetype if you have the Oathbound Archetype as well.

Mercy is for the Weak: Anytime you would gain a Mercy, you instead gain +1 healing per die rolled from using the Lay on Hands class power; this does not stack with other healing bonuses, such as that given by Fey Foundling.

After 5th level you may choose to gain a Divine Bond, rather than the +1 heal per die rolled, the next time you would otherwise gain a Mercy. This allows you to have both Divine Bonds, a mount and a weapon. If you do not gain a Divine Bond, due to another Archetype for example, you may not gain a Divine Bond in this manner.

If you have an Oath that replaces one or more of your Mercies, you may not replace the features given to you in place of mercies for the healing bonus. This replaces the mercies class feature, although you may take this Archetype with any Oath that alters the mercy class feature.

Couple of questions...

Some of the racial powers state:
"Each additional time you take this trait, increase its cost by 1 RP"

Does this mean each level is +1 more expensive than the previous level? Ie: Buy it at 2RP, and buying it again means the 2nd purchase is 3RP, and buying it again is 4RP (so 3x is a total of 9RP)

Or does it mean just +1 to the total, so 2x is a total of (2RP+1RP+1RP=4RP)?

Flight states that every additional 2RP spent increases the maneuverability/speed. But flight is a 4RP cost. So, does this mean that everytime you "upgrade" flight (at 4RP) you get +2 maneuverability, +20 speed? Or do you pay 2RP per upgrade which, in an Advanced Race game, where you are limited to 4 traits per category, spending a total of (4+2+2+2=10) 10RP maxxes out your Movement traits? One way caps at Perfect/90', the other at Good/60'.

I'm starting up a new campaign, and as part of the process, I want to make sure that players have -exactly- the character that they want to play. I've already had them describe the character (their most ideal character, without mentioning any class/race) and 8 scenarios with them explaining how this character would handle the scenario.

We are currently working on classes, because I intend to house rule things in a manner that they can play their ideal character (hence the recent "Temporal Bard" thread, for the guy who wants to play a highly charismatic time traveller).

I'm also thinking of letting them home-brew their own races, and whatever they home-brew, making sure that their creation is the 'standard' for that race. I will force them to pick an existing race and modify it, but only if it's a thematic change...

I've never let people home-brew races before, and never had the pleasure of playing in a game with a home-brew race, so first thing I'm asking the community is, if there's anything I need to make sure to avoid?

My intent is to allow them to start with an 12RP race, and allow them to "evolve" (something that won't be so common amongst the races in game) by 1RP per level (2RP at 2nd level).

For example, having tested this as if I was the player instead of the GM, I was thinking of taking the Sylph Race, 3 points into Outsider (Air), 5 points into Sneaky (+4 Stealth) and 4 points into Flight (Clumsy/30'). Each 4 levels, add another level of flight so he has the max flight by level 12. (Can't imagine the game would go past level 12, but if it does, that shouldn't be a problem).

I realize the guy playing the catfolk will likely jump on a chance to maximize natural attacks, but since thematic is a thing, he obviously would be limited to claws and a bite at best, maybe a slapping tail...

Seem fair? Or is there a reason people don't let players create their own races? :P

A Temporal Bard has learned to create temporal distortions through using a very precise sound frequency. This is typically done through a very eerie sounding whistling noise they make with their lips, or a wind instrument. Although they are skilled in effecting time, their effects on the living is greatly hindered as their performances are seen as creepy and at times even nauseating if not downright frightful.

Performances (Ex):
The bard loses all access to other Bard performances, but picks up the following performances.
Slow time (Su): The temporal bard may whistle a tune that slows down time for everyone other than herself. Add 10' plus 10' per 5 bard levels to her move speed while whistling.
Swift Movement (Su): The temporal bard gains an additional move action while under the effects of this performance.
Push through Time (Sp): For the duration of this performance, beginning at 3rd level, make a melee touch attack to send an opponent forward through time. The target disappears for a number of rounds equal to half the bard level of the temporal bard, and then reappears in the same exact square he disappeared from at the end of the bard's turn on that round. This attack deals no damage, and no effect on the creature happens during those rounds. This may also be used on a willing target, allowing you to push them through time, past a battle, to receive medical attention.
Rewind Time (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the temporal bard may roll 2d20 on any one roll per round and take the highest result.
Speed Time (Su): Beginning at 7th level the temporal bard may act as if under the effects of the Haste spell.
Flicker through Time (Sp): Beginning at 7th level the bard may choose to be under the effects of the Blink spell while using this performance.
Time Hop (Su): At 7th level, the bard can teleport rather than use its land speed. This is done by stopping time and moving to the next location, thus the temporal bard must have line of effect to the location he is teleporting to. Due to actually traversing the distance, anything that would impede movement, such as difficult terrain, reduces the distance teleported.
Insightful Battlement (Su): The temporal bard is able to see things moments before they happen, giving him time to prepare for them. This gives him the opportunity to use his mind in place of his physical characteristics in many situations. Beginning at 2nd level, the temporal bard may use his Int bonus in place of his Dex bonus for dodge AC and Reflex saves, he may also use his Int bonus in place of his Strength for melee attacks. Additionally, the temporal bard rolls all initiative rolls with 2d20 and takes the highest roll. This replaces versatile performance.
Stretched Performances (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the temporal bard may extend his performance to one additional willing subject, within 5' of the bard. At the beginning of each of the bard's rounds, the other subject must be within 5' of the bard or the effect on the other subject is cancelled. This replaces spells and orisons.
Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level, a temporal bard gains the Evasion class feature as the Rogue.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) At 5th level, a temporal bard gains the Uncanny Dodge class feature as the Rogue.
Merged Performances (Su): When doing a performance, beginning at 7th level, the temporal bard may choose to also be under the effect of either Slow Time or Swift Movement for the duration of the performance, in addition to being under the effects of his current performance. Doing this prevents doing a performance as a move action. At 13th level, a temporal bard may choose to be under the effects of both mentioned performances in addition to the effects of the current performance, though this requires a Standard Action to activate rather than a Swift action.

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Writing up some Feats that I think would help Kineticists without unbalancing them... Seem fair? Anything else we should hope to see?

Skilled Infusionist
You can learn some Infusion Wild Talents sooner than others of your class.
Prerequisite: Kineticist level 3 or higher.
Benefit: Treat your Kineticist level as 1 higher for the purpose of qualifying for Infusion Wild Talents **Get those pesky level 2 talents at 3rd instead of 5th

Expanded Element
You gain a talent of your choice.
Prerequisite: Either 7th or 15th kineticist level.
Benefit: When expanding into a new element, you gain a single talent from a previously known element if you would otherwise qualify for it. This must be an infusion talent or utility talent. **Basically Extra Wild Talent without the "2 levels lower".

Foe Hurl
Your ability at tossing opponents is not restricted by form.
Prerequisite: Foe Throw infusion wild talent, and either Extended or Extreme infusion.
Benefit: When using Foe Throw, the range you can toss an enemy is 120' if you have the Extended Range infusion, or 480' if you have the Extreme Range infusion. You are still limited to 30' for selecting your target to throw.

As a continuation to my current project of categorizing just how powerful each martial class can be in DPR, I'm attempting to expand into Cavalier next. Does anyone have a level-20 build, with each level advancements listed, they believe is the most powerful a Cavalier can achieve? Otherwise, any advise on how best to combine 'specific' class feature/feat combinations that are more effective? I know the basics, I have the guides, so I don't need a reiteration of things all martials already know. I'm looking either for builds (both/either archer/melee) or things that those of us who have played martials, but never a cavalier, may have missed.

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As part of my project to categorize all the best builds, starting with high DPR Martials from each of the martial classes, I'm beginning with the Barbarian. I played a Sylph Urban Barbarian for awhile (don't ask :P), and while reading the guides, realized the importance of Come and Get Me at level 12. Also the importance of an Invulnerable archetype. However, I'm no expert on the class...

Anyone care to help me with the ultimate DPR build for the class? How to best maximize the come-and-get-me power? If there are any ranged-attack builds that would be interesting? Best feats? Magic Items? Traits?

Please don't recommend I go look at the Guides, I do know the guides pretty well, but they are generalized and may lack any special combinations that hard-core barbarian players may have come across that boosted DPR more than expected. I'm specifically looking to see just how much damage one can output as a barbarian at any given level. :) If I don't get any input, I'll just assume that the guides are solid enough and I'll add a basic Barbarian to the list using the (according to the guide) best options listed in the guides, and try to calculate the DPRs accurately on my own, per level.

Up until now I've used what I called an "Evolving Magic Items" houserule, which basically auto-upgrades magic items. If your wish-list, which I have players fill out as part of their character creation process, has a +5 Fortification Greater Shadow Mithral Chainmail, I throw in a +1 mithral chainmail at some point, and when they gain certain levels, the bonus increases, or a property is added on.

Typically, this means far fewer treasure troves of magic items in the world, and a consistent happiness for the players who look forward to going up a level (usually a level in which the class doesn't have the most impressive upgrade going on) to achieve a new power.

However, I've noticed that +5 <insert armour) +5 <insert weapon>, +5 Cloak of Resistance, and +6/+6 Stat boost (I limit to 2 stats in my games) are always on everyone's lists... as they should be.

So, what do you think of a new houserule in which there are no enhancement modifiers at all? So no Cloak of Resistance, and the only reason for a magic armour/weapon is for the purpose of special abilities.

What else needs modifying to make this balanced? Ie: Paladin Weapon needs mod'd to only allow for special abilities on their summoned blade.

Also, rather than grant stat boost items, I'm thinking +1 Stat per level instead of per 4 levels. Stat boosts seem pretty important to players, and while I'm ok with just removing stat boost items entirely, save for size-mods, etc... I don't think it'd be unbalancing to have stat increases per-level.

The overall result is hopefully a lesser dependence on magic items, and a much wider variety amongst what are otherwise very varying characters.

Can anyone see any problems with these ideas?

The Extra Wild Talent feat says you can take any infusion or non-infusion wild talent, just not a blast or defense wild talent.

Does this mean you can not take the "Expanded Defense" Utility Wild Talent? Or was the thought that you can't just go taking any blast/defense wild talent to prevent people from taking off-element talents (since normal blasts and defense talents don't list a prerequisite)?

I ask because Hero Lab seems to think we can't take Expanded Defense with our feat. :/

In various threads I'm often told how un-optimized the characters in my games are for damage-per-round. The guides, while interesting, don't actually show you how optimized you can be. I would like to propose that we make a compilation of the most optimized for DPR per class which is clearly marked for each level's advancement (so if you're a level 8 character, you can compare yourself to the optimized at level 8). Guides are great, but actually seeing the character sheet of what it -could- be would be far more interesting for anyone actually wanting a guide (especially if reasons for selections are clearly stated in the process).

While I'm not personally interested in having a high DPR character, I'm curious just how far behind the 'best' I lag. I also realize that not all classes are about damage output, rather depending on high DPR classes to do the damage while they do the battlefield control, and obviously I mean BFC in this as well.

Similarly, things like Summons, which people claim are the best way to do magic, explaining how it's better...

Anyone care to chip in on the project?

Hey all, is there any way to make this Wild Talent worth getting? At its very best, how does it fare against a monk? I have a very high Dex, Weapon Finesse, and am thinking of taking Improved Unarmed and the Fist, but want to make sure I'm getting the most out of it if I do this.

For my TK guide, I'm needing to get an idea/feel for which infusions works best for someone wanting to melee as a Kineticist.

Earth and Aether:

Bowling: Trip Maneuver vs CMB Roll
Entangling: Reflex Negates 1 minute of Entanglement, can Escape Artist out.
Pushing: Push those in melee away 5' (AoO?)

Those are the only options from what I can see, and I kinda think Pushing is the best of the 3?

What about Air, Fire or Water?


Brillant: Light?
Burning: Additional damage per turn <-- Seems best?
Flash: 1 round Blinded
Unravelling: Dispel Magic

Cold: (practically useless)

Chilling: 1 round staggered. <-- Best of 1

Air: (practically useless)

Gusting: Gust of Wind <-- Best of 2?
Thundering: 1 round deafened

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These are the 'cards' I've used for my own character, feel free to copy them if you want to use something similar. I'll have pre-configured ones included on my TK guide as well, once it's completed.

Kinetic Blast Spreadsheet

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I in no way want to take the wind away from N.Jolly's awesome Kineticist guide, it's great work and deserves a spotlight. However, my great interest in it has been, not because I need help with the class, but because I've been working on my own guide. Unlike Jolly, I don't think the elements should all be in the same guide. I had already started my own guide before I saw that Jolly was doing one, but I'm going much much much slower... (don't even expect many changes over the weekend, I need to evaluate in tests different things before I open my mouth).

If anyone's interested in input'ing on my much more bland guide (I'll decorate it after I see how much space I have for images per page), you can find it here:

Aether Kineticist Guide

I'm only just now moving onto the Talents, and haven't even considered Feats or Magic items yet... I feel that, only in this way, can you truly convey how to intermix the elements, and just how different the different elements are played. After all, as Mark said, each element has its own playstyle, such as 'tactical' for aether. To lump them into a single guide does a disfavor (in my opinion) to potential optimization.

Also, my apologies for just how empty it is... I'm trying to be as thorough as possible and am really only doing this on limited spare time, throwing things in as I experience them in our weekly game-play.

So, one of our players is wanting a more perception based Ranger, based more on the fantasy stories they are based off of, such as Aragorn. His problem is all the spell-casting, and not enough of the awareness. After a bit of discussion, here's something I proposed to him, and he seems to like the idea. Thought I'd share again. :)

Sense of Nature (Su): A warden is able to, at will, detect magic and read magic, as the spells. A 3rd level warden is more attuned to hidden passageways. Coming within 30' of a secret door allows her a perception roll to notice. The warden also gains a +2 to all perception checks, which increases by +2 at 8th level and every 5 levels thereafter. This replaces the favored enemy and favored terrain class feature.

Scryer of Nature (Sp): Beginning at 4th level a warden gains a number of spell points equal to 1/2 her level plus her Wis Modifier. Using these, she can spend a point to use See Invisibility. At 7th level, she can use these points to access Clairaudience/Clairvoyance at a cost of 2 spell points. At 10th level she gains access to Arcane Eye at a cost of 3 spell points. Finally, at level 13 she can use 4 spell points to access Prying Eyes. These are spell-like abilities, not actual spell casting, so no somantic, verbal nor material components are required to use this feature. The duration for these effects is equal to 1 minute per level. This replaces the spells class feature.

In the cosmology of the known planes, the material plane upon which mankind resides is surrounded and protected by the transitive astral, ethereal and shadow planes. Beyond that are the elemental planes, from which the kinetics draws their power, creating portals through the ethereal plane. Whereas kineticists create portals that draw from the elements beyond, an ethereal warrior instead becomes a portal to the ethereal, and eventually, even the elemental planes beyond.

When a person, oft through introspection, realises that the pathways can go in both direction, they often find themselves drawn to this class to perfect their body's ability to transcend the material plane. This is done through rigorous martial training as well as mental exercises.

Alignment: There are no alignment restrictions to this class.
Hit Dice: d8

To qualify to become an Ethereal Warrior, a character must fulfil all of the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Special: There must be an elemental theme to the character or class. This can be an Elemental Focus, Domain, School, or just the theme of the character, such as a monk who focuses on air through elemental fists, and wind and lightning stances.

Level | BAB | Fort. | Rflx. | Will. | Special
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
1st .. | +1 . | +1 . | +1 . | +0 . | Burn, Continued Progression
2nd . | +2 . | +1 . | +1 . | +1 . | Wild Talent
3rd .. | +3 . | +2 . | +2 . | +1 . |
4th .. | +4 . | +2 . | +2 . | +1 . | Wild Talent
5th .. | +5 . | +3 . | +3 . | +2 . |
6th .. | +6 . | +3 . | +3 . | +2 . | Wild Talent
7th .. | +7 . | +4 . | +4 . | +2 . |
8th .. | +8 . | +4 . | +4 . | +3 . | Wild Talent
9th .. | +9 . | +5 . | +5 . | +3 . |
10t .. | +10 | +5 . | +5 . | +3 . | Wild Talent

Class Skills
The ethereal warrior's class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Knowledge (Planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), and Stealth (Dex).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4+Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are features of the ethereal warrior's prestige class.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Ethereal warriors are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Ethereal warriors are proficient with light and medium armours but not with shields.

Burn (Ex): Ethereal warriors can use the Burn class feature of the kineticist class, with the exception that the max burn an ethereal warrior can accept is equal to her Con modifier. If the character already has Burn as a class feature, she may add to her max burn by 1 for every 2 full levels she has in the ethereal warrior class, to a maximum bonus equal to half her Con modifier. The ethereal warrior's level stacks with the level of all other classes when determining how much burn they can accept per round. Otherwise the max burn they can accept per round is equal 1. This increases to 2 at 5th level, and 3 at 10th level.

Continued Progression: When calculating either the spells per day of a psychic magic class, or the damage of wild talent simple or composite blasts, the ethereal warrior may add her levels in this class to the psychic magic class(es) and the kineticist class.

Wild Talent: An ethereal warrior can use ethereal wild talents, magical abilities similar to spells but drawn from the ethereal warrior's innate psychic talent and usable at will. Every wild talent has an effective spell level, and an ethereal warrior can only select a wild talent if her ethereal warrior level is at least double the wild talent's effective spell level. All wild talents are labelled as either (Sp) or (Su).
She gains 1 wild talent at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter from the following list.

Basic Etherealkinesis (Sp):
Level: 1; Burn: 0;
You are able to go Ethereal for a very brief moment, however you can only do this with up to your Con Modifier * 2 pounds of equipment at a time, items which exceed this weight fall to the ground. You may select which items, within the weight limit, stays with you when you use this power. While ideal for slipping out of bonds, it also has a tendency to slip you out of your armour as well.

Ethereal Vision (Su):
Level: 1; Burn: 0
You may, shift your vision to the ethereal plane. This allows you to see through mist and fog (including fog cloud and similar magic). During this time, your eyes take on a nearly translucent appearance which bystanders will find very disturbing, causing a -2 to any future diplomacy rolls in dealing with them.

Ghost Touch, Weapons (Sp):
Level 1; Burn 0
You may give your melee weapon the Ghost Touch special weapon ability as part of a melee attack action, a charge action, or a melee full-attack action. If you spend 1 Burn, this ability will remain on your weapon for a number of minutes equal to your Con modifier, or until the weapon leaves your possession.

Ghost Touch, Armour (Sp):
Level 2; Burn 1
A single piece of armour that you are wearing uses both its enhancement bonus and ac against both incorporeal and corporeal attacks. The effect lasts until the end of your next turn. You may spend an additional burn to extend the duration until the next time you recover from your current burn levels.

Ethereal Vision, Improved (Su):
Level 2; Burn: 0; Requisite: Ethereal Vision
You can look through up to 6 inches of non-magical material with your ethereal vision. This ability is blocked if there is anything magical, such as a ward or barrier, between you and where you are trying to look, unless the magic is your own. The material must be within close range to you, and you are limited to a number of minutes per day equal to your level plus Con mod. Trying to use this talent longer than allowed gives you the blinded effect until your recover from lost burn. When using this talent, your eyes take on a nearly translucent appearance which bystanders will find very disturbing, causing a -2 to any future diplomacy rolls in dealing with them.

Step Through (Sp):
Level 2; Burn: 1; Requisite: Basic Etherealkinesis
The duration of basic etherealkinesis expands for you, allowing you time to step through a wall, door or other obstacle. Moving still requires expending a move action to do so, and you move at 1/4th your normal speed for that turn. During this time, you do draw attacks of opportunity when moving, if applicable, but you are considered incorporeal for those attacks.
Upon stopping, or pausing a move action, this effect ends. If you are within an object at the time, you get shunted back to your starting location.

Ghosting (Sp):
Level 2; Burn: 1; Requisite: Basic Etherealkinesis
Until the end of your next turn, you are mostly ethereal, giving you a defensive DR 10/Magic. You can extend this to a number of minutes equal to your Con Modifier with an extra point of burn.

Wraithing (Sp):
Level 3; Burn: 2; Requisite: Step Through or Ghosting
Until the end of your next turn, you are ethereal and unable to be hit by physical attacks. You can also not in any way affect the material plane while in this state. You can however walk through walls, doors and other obstacles with relative ease, at half your usual movement speed.

Ethereal Vision, Greater (Su):
Level 3; Burn 0; Requisite: Ethereal Vision, Improved
When using your Ethereal Vision, you can attempt to see through magical barriers by rolling against the DC of the magic using your Fort in place of Will. You also gain unlimited use of your ethereal vision, though you still suffer from the disturbing appearance your eyes cause.

Ethereal Weapon (Sp):
Level: 3; Burn 1; Requisite: Ghost Touch, Weapons
When you apply your Ghost Touch to a melee weapon, you can also ignore non-magical armour, including natural armour, with your weapon. If the armour is magical, it does not get any enhancement bonus for the purpose of any attacks you use with this weapon. You can extend the duration of this talent to a number of minutes equal to your Con modifier, or until the weapon leaves your possession, by spending an additional burn level.

Ethereal Archery (Sp):
Level 4; Burn: 1
You may treat a missile from a ranged weapon, or a thrown weapon, as having the Ghost Touch weapon quality. If shot or thrown at a corporeal creature, you may ignore any non-magical armour, or ignore the enhancement of any magic armours they are wearing.

Ethereal Jaunt (Sp):
Level 4; Burn 2; Requisite: Wraithing
You are under the effects of the Ethereal Jaunt spell for a number of rounds equal to your ethereal warrior level plus Con modifier.

Ethereal Jaunt, Greater (Sp):
Level 5; Burn: 3; Requisite: Ethereal Jaunt
You are under the effects of an Ethereal Jaunt, except your vision is not limited to 60' and it lasts for a number of minutes equal to your ethereal warrior level plus Con modifier.

Planar Travel (Sp):
Level 5; Burn 3
You are able to transfer yourself and a number of people equal to your Con modifier, to one of the elemental planes as if using the Plane Shift spell.

I'm thinking of making a Prestige Class that will work similarly to the Dragon Disciple, but be to Kineticists what the Dragon Disciple is to Sorcerers.

I was originally thinking of doing, as the Dragon Disciple, it based on the idea of progeny... however, unlike the Dragon, there's already a system for Genie progeny (ARG, Ifrit, Sylph, Oreads, Undines). So the idea isn't progeny, or even genies, but turning into elemental entities that are natural to the Ethereal Plane (from whence the Kineticist powers come). Not limited in any way to Kineticist, just obvious that they are the intended target.

So far my only real ideas are that I want the player to slowly become Ethereal (so maybe some Windy Escape/DR tricks, brief stints to walk through walls, etc... with Ethereal Jaunt being an at-will ability at higher levels, possibly requiring burn). And of course, the ability to turn into the Elemental as per the spells Elemental Body I & II

Obviously I'd want to make sure that Kineticist kept upgrading the damage total of their Kinetic Blast, and possibly even pick up some more Talents along the way... And just like the Dragon Disciple, some attribute bonuses (perhaps fitting for the element they're attuned to?), but not Con, just as the DD don't get Cha.

Anyone have any ideas they'd want to throw in?

I was re-reading the rules of the Kineticist before game-play next week, and realized that I had perhaps mis-understood something...

Infusion Specialization says it only reduces the cost of combined infusions (or single infusion of course), not Metakinesis? So, you can't reduce the burn from either Empowering or Maximizing, right?

GM opted against my Wings of Air idea, but after some discussion of where precisely I wanted to go with the character, we came up with a hybrid archetype. I thought I'd share since I'm even more excited about this than my Telekineticist! :D

If this seems at all over-powered, please help me balance it some. I'm pretty sure we stripped away enough of the initial power to make it work in a balanced way, but I'm not an expert. After all, I haven't really made a character in years and have been playing a Sylph Air Wizard almost excusively (with some spurts of the testplaying of the Kineticist of course).

Aetherialist wrote:

The following racial archetype is available to sylphs.

Aetherialist (Kineticist)
While most kineticist concentrate on their psychic control of their element(s), an aetherialist spends less effort on expanding their power, and more on doing what capricious, secretive sylphs do; being sneaky and curious. Thus, having a limited access to kinetic elements, they spend a portion of their time practicing getting in and out of trouble. An aetherialist has the following class features.

Class Skills: An aetherialist loses the Intimidate and Heal skills, and gains Sleight of Hand, Disable Device and Fly to his list of class skills.

Airy Step: The Airy Step feat that sylphs can gain can be used as a prerequisite to the Wings of Air Wild Talent. If the sylph has this feat, he is considered to meet the prerequisites for that talent, although he must still have Air as an elemental focus to take this Wild Talent as well as meet any level requirements.

Elemental Focus (Su): At 1st level an aetherialist must choose either air or aether as his element of focus. This choice does not affect the list of additional class skills, but in all other respects works as the class feature.

Burn (Ex): Aetherialists can accept two fewer burn than a kineticist, having a maximum burn of 1 + her Constitution modifier. Otherwise Burn works the same as the class feature.

Trapfinding: An aetherialist adds 1/3 her level to Perception skill checks made to detect traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). An aetherialist can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps. This replaces the Gather Power class feature.

Extended Range: An aetherialist automatically gains the Extended Range infusion at 1st level. This is the only infusion the aetherialist gains, and she may not gain other infusions even from feats. This replaces the infusion gained at 1st level.

Evasion (Ex): As the rogue feature of the same name. This replaces the infusion gained at 3rd level.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): As the rogue feature of the same name. This replaces the infusion gained at 5th level.

Soft Burn (Ex): At 5th level, once per day, or until burn is removed, an aetherialist reduces the burn cost of her original element's defense by 1. This replaces the Internal Buffer class feature.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): As the rogue feature of the same name. This replaces the infusion gained at 5th level.

Expanded Element (Su): When selecting an expanded element, an aetherialist is limited to either aether or air. If she chooses the element that she does not currently have focus on, she gains the elemental defense of that element instead of any composite blast. She does not gain any composite blasts. Otherwise this feature works the same as the class feature with the exception that she can not gain an infusion for choosing the same element.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): As the rogue class feature, but the aetherialist uses her aetherialist levels to determine her rogue level, with a -2 penalty. Thus, as a 9th level aetherialist, she would be treated as a 7th level rogue for purpose of this feature. This replaces the 9th level infusion class feature.

Rogue Talents: As the rogue feature, but can only learn new talents at levels 11, 13, 17 and 19. This replaces the 11th and 13th level infusion and Supercharge class features.

Advanced Rogue Talents: As the rogue feature, Advanced Talents, but can only replace Rogue Talents gained at levels 17 or 19. This replaces the level 17 and 19 infusion class feature.

Fey Talent: At 20th level, the aetherialist can accept 1 point of burn to use any Rogue Talent or rogue Advanced Talent which she does not have. This effect lasts for a maximum of 2 rounds. By accepting 2 burn, she may use the talent until her burn is removed. This replaces the Omnikinesis class feature.

Is there any reasonable class to multi or dip into for a Kineticist? I'm not really interested in much after 12th level, and am wondering if I should stick with it, or branch out. Guessing there are no Prestige Classes for a Kineticist. :/

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At some point, someone is going to make a Kineticist Optimization Guide, and that someone won't be me, and that someone likely won't know -all- the Elements well enough to make a complete guide, so I thought I'd post some ideas for that optimization guide based on my own character. :)

I'll skip the obvious stuff (non-lethal not stacking with lethal, starting the day with 3 burn after 5th level, etc) and just point out some Aether things of note.

I think the most important use of the Telekineticist is as the Utility Rogue character. No matter how much you enhance your Kinetic Blast, it's still just a single once-per-turn attack that can't Cleave, go Two-Handed or stack with weapon feats in general. The problem is that an Aether build isn't really conducive towards party-assist either, which means the number of niche's one can fill while still playing something thematic to the player, is limited.

This is resolved if you're the "thief" of the party (especially if you have a party that lacks such a character). We're better than a Rogue at thievish things for a few reasons. Primarily, because we have ranged Disable/Sleight which doesn't accumulate a -5 DC like the Arcane Trickster does. We begin with Sleight as a class skill, so the Vagabond Child (Urban) is a very very important Trait to pick up (along with one of the Reactionary types for the bonus initiative). Now we steal and open/remove almost as well as a Rogue, except we'll get to do it from a nice/safe distance.

Attributes are already inclined towards that of a Thief, since Dexterity is as important to us as Con (and unlike a Rogue, we don't have Strength as an important attribute). For a Thief build though, I would put Dex first. Con is important, but if you know you're not going to focus on pouring damage, and knowing that most Burn is for enhancing the Blast that you're not built around, you're better off making sure you have the Rogue-ish Dexterity. The things you're lacking is Detecting of Traps and Disabling of Magic Traps (I'll address this a bit more down below when talking about magic items). My personal experience says that it's ok to share the work on the Detection of traps. Due to the rather low Wisdom most Rogues have, depending on the 1/2 level boost, I find that Wisdom based characters with the Perception skill as a class skill (wisdom based characters tend to find a way to enhance perception, even if it's not a class skill), found traps more often than Rogues. That, and Detect Magic is something nearly everyone seems to have, so magical traps are often more obvious to the magic users than to Rogues anyways.

So, high Dexterity as primary
Con can be 2nd, or even 3rd as long as it's at least a 14. You need at least 5 burn so you can have 3 burn for your Overflow, 1 for use, and one that you keep as a backup.
Int is important for the skills, and I would also recommend at least a 14. That's 6 skills per level (Perception, Sleight, Disable, Acrobats, Stealth, and eventually, Fly)
Strength is an obvious dump stat, which can be offset later with either Mulecords or Heavyload Belt if needed, but you might want to keep some Strength for your Chainmail Shirt later on.
Wisdom is not dumpable (Will is our weakness, and Perception is still important), so "extra" points go there.
Charisma is dumpable.

Sadly, you don't -really- get a choice on Wild Talents, although they make it look like you do. Infusions are really limited to Pushing, then Bowling (since obviously you're not wanting to get into melee). And while Utility seems more open, the choices are really Finesse (Your rogue ability), then Haul or Heal, and either Self-TK, Invis, or whichever one you didn't pick at 4th level. This can be resolved a bit by taking the Extra Wild Talent feat at 3rd level, gaining Heal/Haul. Personally, I take Haul as quickly as possible because lifting level*100 for free, or level*1000 for a burn... well, even a boulder-covered cave entrance isn't going to be a problem for you... muchless that gate which dropped down in front of you. (even a 20th level Wizard with Telekinesis can only lift as much as a 4th level telekineticist)

As for Feats, the Extra Wild Talent can be useful later on, but the rest of your feats can either go towards boosting your Blast(meh), or boosting your Thievery: Deft Hands, Stealthy, Skill Focus. Similarly, since you want to stay out of combat, Dodge/Mobility are good picks; as well as boosting Acrobatics (a class skill nonetheless) with skill focus (or Acrobatic) and magic items may allow you to move around without worrying about AoOs. Unlike other classes, you have the extra feats and item slots to focus on these things.

Items: Aside from the obvious for all Kineticists (Cloak of Resistance, Amulet of NA, Mithral Chainmail shadow/creeping, Arrowmaster's bracers/Bracers of Archery, dex/con belt, etc), the Thief/TK can focus items on boosting skills. Shoes for acrobatics and movement out of combat, gloves for boosting sleight/disable, but a really important and often forgotten is the Headband of Vast Intelligence. This is more important than a Con/Dex boost due to it adding your HD to any one skill of choice (2 skills at +4). Whereas a rogue needs to focus more on armour, a good weapon, etc... you can aim for one of these. This offsets your weaknesses in skill, both in perception and in disabling of devices. There are no darker bluer items for a TK/thief to take in my opinion.

So, to whomever shall one day make the optimized kineticist document, hope this helps some. :) I can't imagine a more effective thief than one who can turn invis at will, can fly anywhere, and can steal things without being there, or open traps without endangering anyone.

I'm sacrificing my current E6 character for a base level 6 character.
I went with a very "rogue" feel to the character, hoping he can fill the roll without the sneak attacks.

Numbers are calculated on the assumption I do 3 burn every morning for my Force Ward.

Of note: One House Rule - Wings of Air in place of Self Telekinesis.

Strength: 7
Constitution: 18
Dexterity: 18
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 11

ArmourClass: 19 (21 - Breeze Kissed)
- FlatFooted: 14 (16)
- Touch: 15 (17)

Fortitude: +9
Reflexes: +9
Willpower: +2

HP: (56) 53 (+15 TmpHP)
Initiative: +6

CMB: +0 (+8)
CMD: 14

Move: 30’
- Fly: 60’(Good)

Common, Elven
Auran, Ignem
Aquan, Terram

MAX BURN: 7 (4 after Ward)

Acrobatics (5): +12
Disable Device (6): +16
Escape Artist (5): +11
Fly (6): +17
Perception (5): +8
Sleight of Hand (5): +12
Stealth (6): +24
Use Magic Device (5): +8

1) Airy Step
3) Stealthy
5) Wings of Air

Vagabond Child (Urban)
Elven Reflexes (Adopted)

Breeze Kissed
Whispering Wind

GEAR (600 Gp) [16,000 Starting]
Burglar’s Bracers
Cloak of the Elvenkind
Handy Haversack
Hat of Disguise
Headband of +2 Int (Stealth)
Heavyload Belt

+1 Mithral Chainmail Shirt

Extended Range

Basic Telekinesis
Telekinetic Finesse
Telekinetic Haul
Wings of Air

Kinetic Blast (Telekinetic)[/b]
Ranged Attack vs AC
Action: Standard
Range: 120’
Attack: +11 (BAB + Burn + Dex)
Damage: 3d6+13
(13 = ½ Level + ConMod + Burn*2)

Force Ward (Telekinetic)
Start each day with 3 Burn (-3HP) to have 15 Tmp HP.
Recover lost TMP at 2/minute.

Action: Standard
As Mage Hand, 600lbs at a range of 160’. Move item(s) at 30’/Rnd. Incl: Magic items, liquids, collection of items. Open/Close Cantrip included.

Telekinetic Finesse
Use Disable Device and Sleight of Hand from a range of 40’

Fly with Good (+4) Maneuverability and bonus to Fly rolls equal to half level.

Empowered Blast
Take 1 burn to multiply Kinetic Blast damage by 1.5. Declare before rolling to hit.

Favored Class: Hp, Hp, Hp, Hp, Hp, Skill Point

Seems ok?

Can anyone help me word this perfectly for my GM please? Basically I want a feat that will allow a Sylph (racial check) to replace Self Telekinesis with Wings of Air. My wording feels awkward to me...

Wings of Air
You replace your Self Telekinesis with Wings of Air.
Prerequisites: Sylph. Kineticist level 6 with Elemental Focus of Aether. Self Telekinesis, Telekinetic Finesse and Telekinetic Haul. Special.
Benefit: You may replace Self Telekinesis with the Wings of Air Wild Talent without needing to meet the prerequisites for the Talent. If you have an Expanded Element, it must already be Air for you to take this Feat. If you don't yet have an Expanded Element, when selecting your Expanded Element you must select Air.

I got the idea stuck in my head when commenting on The Rider thread, and cant get it out, so started working on it a bit. I am of the opinion that in most dragon stories, the protagonist who usually rides the Dragon is an unexpected individual, never the person who has trained, is a veteran, etc... Its the street rat, or the orphan boy, or something other that would never have either studied magic nor martial training.

So was trying to build the class with a Summoner base, but realized I would have to give up spells, which is too big a thing to give up... Then it hit me to replace the spells with Rogue Talents, and the inkling of anidea formed. Here is what I have so far...

Medium BAB, as per the rogue class.
Good reflex saves, but low Will and Fort saves.
Allow all simple weapons, plus rapier, short sword, short bow and light crossbow.
Allow ligt armour, but no shield.
Skills as rogue, without Knowledge skills?

Rogue talents beginning at 3rd level, though they may forego a single rogue talent to pick up either Evasion or Uncanny Dodge. Continued talent progression every other level after third, treating his dragonborne level as rogue level to qualify for talents.

Their dragon would of course start out as a hatchling, medium sized quadruped, at first level. Unlike the Eidolen, dead is dead... If the dragon dies, and is not resurrected, the players level in Dragonborn become rogue levels.

Beginning at first level, the dragon gains evolutions that are predetermined. First level, he has claws, tail, and tail swipe.
Third level he gaines a breath weapon, element chosen by the player, and basic magic.
Fifth level he gains immunity to the element of his breath, and minor magic.
Seventh level his attacks are magic, and he gains major magic.
Ninth level he gains Flight and is Large.
Eleventh level he gains Wing Buffet and Ultimat Magic
thirteenth level he gains frightful presence
Fifteenth level he gains Spell Resistance
Seventeenth level he gains Blind Sens
Ninteenth level he gains damage resistance.

Life linked, as per the summoner feature is gained at 2nd level,.

Bond Sense is gained at 4th level, but only if the dragon is within LoS

Shield Ally is gained at 6th level

The Test... I have this bizarre idea that forces the player to be without his Dragon for a whle level at 8th level. The dragon disappears to go feed and grow, his wings are starting to work, and he needs time off, not only for himself, but to make sure his friend/partner isnt dependent on him.

Anyhows, still a work in progress, both in ideas and formatting of course... But wanted to post it up in case anyone had some interesting ideas I could mesh into this...

He feels weak so far, heavily dependent on the dragon which admittedly, has far more evolutions than an eidolen of equivalent levels, but no control over those evolution. He will need something to up his bab a bit, not figured that out yet...

Below I offer the 1st archetype for my new favorite class. My only personal problem with the new class, was that it did too much, and focused too much, on damage when I just don't see telekinetic being a "blast-em" type of class. I think it's great for all the other elements, and am loving my Electric blast for its damage, but it felt wrong telekinetically.

As such, I modified the blast of this new archetype to use Combat Maneuvers with basically half-damage for when you want to include damage into the applicable maneuver.

Balance Comparison wrote:
  • Sunder as a possible ranged maneuver, albeit not til after other telekineticist would have a chance to have the Telekinetic Maneuver wild talent.
  • Earlier access to some of the most thematic combat maneuvers.
  • Extra talent slot since Telekinetic Maneuvers is no longer needed or an option.


  • Damage is the primary loss, gaining a bonus d6+1 every 4th level instead of every 2nd.
  • Have to potentially wait 1 additional level before gaining Grapple

Of note... I used Dexterity instead of Constitution for the CMB in order to avoid a single-attribute based class.

Telekinetic Hand
Not all kineticist who choose the Aether element are as focused on damage as the classic telekineticist. Many focus more on the maneuvers they can make with their kinetic control at the expense of the damage they could otherwise do, making them not only interesting team members, but also battlefield controllers.

Simple Blasts: A telekinetic hand has access to the following simple blast wild talent in place of Telekinetic Blast, but which meets any Telekinetic Blast prerequisites in infusion wild talents:

Telekinetic Maneuver (Sp): You can perform combat maneuvers against your foes using your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier. Using these maneuvers only invokes an attack of opportunity if you are within someone's treat range. You must have both hands available in order to use these maneuvers, otherwise you lose your Dexterity modifier from your CMB.

At 1st level you gain the ability to trip your opponent. The opponent can not be larger than size large. If you fail the attempt by more than 10, you are not knocked prone.

At 3rd level you add steal to the list of maneuvers you can perform with this feature, if you have the Telekinetic Finesse wild talent. Opponents in combat are not automatically aware of the steal attempt and must make a perception check to notice as if out of combat.

At 5th level, you can disarm as well, as a maneuver from this feature, if you have the Telekinetic Finesse wild talent. You do not suffer the -4 to your roll for being unarmed.

At 7th level you can add dirty trick to your repertoire of maneuvers that you can do with this feature, if you have the Telekinetic Finesse wild talent. Deafened and sickened are removed from the possible list of effects you can cause with this maneuver.

At 9th level, you are able to reposition your opponents as a maneuver from this feature, if you have the Telekinetic Haul wild talent.

At 11th level you are also able to grapple with opponents with this feature, if you have the Telekinetic Haul wild talent. Movement is limited to your Dexterity modifier minus their Strength modifier times 5, with a minimum movement of 0. Other actions of grapple apply as if using the Telekinesis spell.

At 13th level you are able to sunder an opponent's weapon or armor with this feature, if you have the Telekinetic Haul wild talent. Such attempts to either rip the armor off of a target or snap a weapon in half are at a -2 to your CMB, but you may add half your Kineticist level to the damage.

On a successful trip, grapple, reposition or sunder maneuver, in addition to the effect of the maneuver, they, or the target of the sunder, if using the sunder maneuver, take 1d6 + your Constitution modifier in damage. This damage increases by 1d6 + 1 at 4th level and every 4 levels after.

Wild Talents: Telekinetic hands do not receive the Telekinetic Maneuver wild talent as part of their selection of wild talents.

Many Throw: Lashing out with a telekinetic blast is far easier than a controlled maneuver. To attempt using this wild talent, you must pay an extra burn for every target over the 2nd. Otherwise the talent works as described, allowing for multiple combat maneuvers to be performed at the same time.

Of note: In our game, this is just another "simple blast" of the Aether element (much as other classes have multiple blasts). I made it as an archetype purely to remove the "Telekinetic Maneuvers" which is part of what this over-rides, and modify the "Many Throw" Wild Talents. So, while in our game you could, at 7th level, have both Aether blasts, that's not so in this form unless someone can think of a better way to do this. :/

Our first Kineticist house rule just got Ok'd by the GM. My suggestion, which he ok'd, was that rather than a 7th and 15th level Wild Talent, we'd start with 3 talents at 1st level. 1 must be an Infusion, and 1 must be an Other. The purpose being to make the lowest levels somewhat interesting without messing up the overall balance.

So, the new progression is 3 Wild Talents at 1st level, and 1 additional Wild Talent on every even-numbered level, starting at 2nd.

My argument was basically that the Infusion Burn costs balance the number of starting Talents, which means that most people will likely do 2 "Other" Wild Talents since they can't really use 2 Infusions at once at low levels. Though they may do a Form Infusion and a Substance Infusion (which really sounds like another way of saying "shooting up with heroine" :P), they just couldn't power them both at the same time.

At 1st through 5th level, my character now feels like he has some "Utility" he can offer the group, more than a single blast every turn...

End result at level 15+ is the same number of Talents, so aside from some extra utility at the lower levels, the balance remains the same.


Game starts in about 3 hours, 2nd test. I've decided this time to forego really doing much in regards to my "Blast" after yesterday, so have modified my character slightly. Here is what he looks like right now. Looking for advise on how to play the mechanics of it. Mostly I plan to focus on the stealthy aspect of the character and use the Kinetic Cover to help our pretty stealthy party (everyone has high stealth except for the Paladin) to remain hidden. And use Telekinetic Haul to modify the battle field some.

8th level Sylph (Breeze Kissed/Whispering Wind traits) Telekinetic.

Str: 8, Dex: 16 (20), Con: 18 (22), Int: 14, Wis: 8, Cha: 10.

Fly, Sleight of Hand, Stealth and Perception all at +8

Feats: Airy Step, Wings of Air (GM Approved for level), 2 bonus Wild Talents.

Armour: +4 Mithral Chain Shirt with "Shadow, Improved", +4 Cloak of Resistance
Gear: +4 Belt of Physical Might (Con, Dex), Gloves of Larceny, Ring of Speedy Movement (Fly) (Increases natural or supernatural speeds by +30 as Expeditious Retreat, but works on any 1 movement type, in this case, "Fly")

Kineticist: Expanded Element (Air/Electric Blast), Extended/Extreme Range, Kinetic Cover, Kinetic Healer, Light Touch, Telekinetic Finesse, Telekinetic Haul.

I have no real defense other than stealth with an AC of 15 in a party where the average and medium of the others is 23. 2nd lowest is an Archelogist Illusionist with a 17, but with a bunch of defensive style spells like Blur, Mirror Image, etc... 1x AC 17, 2x 23, 1x 24, 1x 28.

I really think our defense needs something more... if nothing more than free Medium Armor proficiency. Or maybe a 2nd "high" save since Willpower should be higher in my opinion... Admittedly, my low Wisdom has me with a +1 to will saves as opposed to my +11 and +12 in the others... :P

Anyhows, back to point, will try not to kill myself with Burn this time. :P My Extreme Range is "free", so only have to pay for Empower.

Am I correct that Empower is not something you can offset the burn cost with accumulating the energy, since it's not a Wild Talent?

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