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Am I missing something in how this feat works or how skills work? Could you not just keep rolling until you have enough successes to heal everyone to full once you are out of combat? Should there not be a limit to how often one can gain the benefit of the feat or is there a rule interaction that I'm missing that covers this?
With no word from on high about a fix for this busted archetype, I need to come up with something. The suggestion without resorting to homebrew,the Ranged Study feat, doesn't work well if you expect to change guns. Which, as I'll be playing Iron Gods, I do. I don't think it would be balanced to just change study and strike without cost because it eliminates some of the MAD built in to the class. I think the simplest solution is to add reduced spellcasting and reduce the number of extracts prepared per day by one and then allow the study and strike abilities to be used at range within 30'. Thoughts?
I was just informed that we're offering a 50% discount on our books at the d20PFSRD store! Plus, spend $20 in their store and get any d20PFSRD Publishing pdf free! What a great time to get our Oracle, Witch, or Gunslinger book. Blast enemies into their constituent atoms with the warlock! Commune with Haitain Voudoun-inspired loa with the sèvitè! Build a plasma shooting, grenade launching, super gun into your arm with the gungineer!
Hi, everyone! I think the Dragon Disciple PrC is very cool. I really like the idea of heightening the influence your bloodline choice has on your character. I think it's a shame that similar PrC's for other bloodlines have never been written. So I'm doing it for our upcoming book. I already wrote one for the nanite bloodline. What's your favorite bloodline? What would you love to see get the same treatment?
So Malwing's review of Into the Breach: Gunslinger mentions that there's a lot of room in the game for more modifications for the Gungineer's named gun. He's right. I held myself back because of space considerations but since we have a blog, there's no reason not to release a free expansion. So what do you want in a gun? The gungineer is a high-technology-meets-fantasy concept so there's a ton of stuff we can do. If an idea is too out there for some people, they can always pick another. So throw out some ideas! Low cost mods already include things like a bayonet, canted ironsights, compensator or reflex sight. Medium cost mods are elemental converters, alchemical power sources, mithral barrel, or a gun gauntlet. The highest cost mods allow you to integrate the gun into your hand, attach a multi-spectrum analyzer, or use the nuclear power of fusion to ash your foes. So you can see that there's diversity. What else would you want to see? I'm already going to add an enhanced bayonet option (I'm thinking chain saw to make Marcus Fenix happy). What else would you want to do to your gun given unlimited freedom?
I'm pleased to announce that the newest addition to the Into the Breach line is coming. This book marked my first go at lead developer and we developed with an eye towards expanding this great class into new areas. There's a black powder knight who aims to tank and save his buddies. The boltslinger, to bring grit mechanics to games without guns, the bombard blade which fans of Final Fantasy will recognize immediately, an aquatic archetype, and four more archetypes too! Three new prestige classes combine your gunslinger with wicked necromancy, terrible hexes, or martial arts katas. I'm very proud of the new alternate class I wrote for this book called the Gungineer. A gungineer builds his own weapon with a point system similar to that of the summoner's eidolon. Start with an elongated barrel and reflex sight and work your way up to gauntlet mounted flechette launcher. Once you get to a high enough level the magnetic accelerator or fusion bottle might be up your alley. You can even integrate the gun directly into your arm! Mad science meets big bangs in the gungineer! I'm looking for one or maybe two people who will be able to read the book and write a review for the three main sales sites. If you can resolve to make that happen within a couple days of receiving your free copy, please PM me with your email address. First come, first served!
We're offering a bundle deal on Into the Breach books The Oracle and The Witch! You get two bucks off and a bunch of new toys for your spell casters! --- Opinion time: How do you guys feel about bundles like this? I had the idea that we might offer a bundle every time we release a new book that includes that book and our previous release. So the next one would be Witch and (spoiler alert) Gunslinger. After that Gunslinger and whatever's next (you won't get our whole release schedule out of me, scallywags!) and so on. Does that sound appealing or a waste of time? Would you rather see bundles with more of a theme? Bigger bundles with bigger savings?
The witch is coming! The first 10 people to PM me with their email address can get a free reviewer copy of the book! We'd really appreciate your honest review if you get one of these but obviously I'm not going to hunt you down if you get a copy and don't write a review. Probably. I'm really excited about this book. Nearly thirty pages of witch goodness including 11 archetypes, 2 prestige classes, new hexes, patrons, and feats and a brand new alternate class, the Sèvitè, written by yours truly. Sèvitè can be translated as "servant of the spirits" and is based on Haitian Voudoun. It's kind of an interesting story behind it, too. Frank Gori, the publisher, brought me on as mechanics and balance editor after our Oracle book (available now!). He was impressed by my ability to beat the hell out of his work, I think. I had never really thought I had the creative spark to really write like this. But bring my system mastery and skill with simple(ish) statistics into play and I can contribute. I was about to go to bed one night after editing submissions for the book and the word "loa" pops into my head. I must have known the word form something. Fiction maybe? Was it ever mentioned in True Blood (my wife loves that show)? But the word pops into my head unbidden and I just have to look it up. So I lay there in bed reading about Haitian Voudoun and loa on my phone. I just had to write about it. I started the next day and never looked back. I've written an alternate class or archetype for all the books we've been working on since. I found my creative spark all thanks to the loa. As a class, I think it's pretty interesting, too (though I admit to being biased). At 1st, 2nd and every few levels thereafter you gain a loa. The loa grants you spell-like abilities usable a few times per day and another option: being ridden. Being ridden or possessed by a loa is believed to happen in Voudoun. When the sèvitè is ridden she loses access to her skills, spells, and the SLA's granted by other loa but gains new powers. An example is below:
This can also be a really cool RP opportunity if you want to play the possession to the hilt and have your sèvitè act or speak differently while possessed by the loa. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the sèvitè and the rest of the book.
Coming to Paizo and other sellers soon! Flying Pincushion may be new to you but I hope you'll give us a shot. We're different from many publishers because of our community-based approach to development. I'm a ScrumMaster in regular life and I try to bring the agile approach to our work. We all write together and edit together and work together so that each archetype, mystery, or whatever is as great as it can be. Anyways, I hope you'll try Into the Breach: The Oracle. If Oracle isn't your thing, the Into the Breach series will be continuing with Witch soon and Gunslinger after that.
I did a search and read several threads but the answers weren't always complete and there was disagreement on some points. Plus a lot were old, going all the way back to 2009. So here we go. I want a druid that rides an allosaurus. Because that is essentially the definition of awesome. It seems that, in large part, the mounted combat rules were developed without much thought given to the mount itself and therein lies a lot of my confusion. Because I really care about what my super awesome mount does. 1. Who's charging and does it matter? If my druid, mounted on the allosaurus, charges does the allosaurus get to pounce? If my allosaurus charges does the druid get to use Spirited Charge? Or are they both charging? 2. The allosaurus will probably have Improved Overrun, Greater Overrun, and maybe Elephant Stomp. If they charge do we both have to overrun the target of the charge? Or can the allosaurus overrun and the druid spirited charges? Does the druid provoke an AoO because he doesn't have Improved Overrun? 3. If the druid takes the feat Aspect of the Beast to get claws, does it work with Spirited Charge? Spirited Charge specifically says melee weapon. Are claws in that category or does it need to be a wielded weapon? I'm sure I'm forgetting something but that'll do to start us off.
I don't know about you but language around my table can get a little salty. Well, I was reading the Petrovich books (first three are available as a Kindle collection for like $9 and they're really good. Petrovich swears in his native tongue somewhere between always and constantly and I thought it would be great fun to have Nadya curse like a sailor when she's not at home with her kids. So here's a big list of Russian swear words. WARNING: This has foul language in not one but two languages. If that's the kind of thing that offends you, don't look. If it sounds fun, here you go.
The text reads:
How does the work with Animate Dead and Lesser Animate Dead? Can you make a large creature medium to target it with Lesser Animate Dead? How will that change it's stats? Can you add claws, raise it and change a zombie's slam into a claw attack, essentially allowing it to do slashing damage? Could you add wings and let your new zombie fly? This just came up in our last game. The necromancer raised a giant weasel with Lesser Animate Dead by first using Sculpt Corpse to make it medium. I'm the GM and I ruled on the fly that I'd allow it this time and apply the young template to the resulting zombie to adjust it's stats for its new size. But I'm not sure I should allow it again because of that last line, "Any spell or effect that targets the corpse (such as speak with dead or raise dead) treats it as if it still had its original appearance."
So one of my players is a corpse animating necromancer (or he will be once he gets level 2 and 3 spells). Help me with this process. Example 1: Cast Animate Dead on a pile of five dead human Fighters all level 5 to make zombies. They lose all of their HD except 1 and gain 1 for being medium. So no matter how powerful a human or other humanoid is, they are only ever 2 HD? Total of 10 HD for issues of how many can be controlled. Since they were fighters they are capable of using any simply or martial weapon you put in their hands? Example 2: Cast Animate Dead and Remove Paralysis on the pile of five level 5 human fighters to make fast zombies. Still each 2HD and still a total of 10HD, yes? Example 3: Strip the flesh from those level 5 human Fighters to make Skeletons. Cast Animate Dead. Same thing happens and they lose all their HD but 1 but add 1 for being medium. Still proficient with simple and martial weapons you give them. Example 4: Same as 3 but decide to make burning skeletons. No extra spell to be cast but counts as 20HD for control, yes? Example 5: Cast Animate Dead on the corpse of a Young White Dragon. It has 7HD and is medium. It loses no HD but adds one for being medium, though they change from d12's to d8's. Question 1: So casting Animate Dead on humans is mostly retarded, right? They lose most benefits and are only useful if you have spare magic weapons (and can't or won't sell them). Even then with only two HD they're pretty much guaranteed to get dropped by the first attack that hits them in latter levels. Question 2: When you add the 4HD from the Undead Master feat, is that before or after you multiply your caster level by 4?
I'm going to try to keep a game log here. Hopefully, it will keep our history coherent in my brain and if it helps someone else GM'ing the AP then that's just icing. Bit of background for readers, I have a small group; it's just me and two players. To shore up weak links my two players are gestalt. Ymir is a Winter Witch/Evoker Wizard. He's a member of the Pathfinder Society that has headed into Taldor to investigate the tales of strange wintry effects. Tholomin is a black-blooded Oracle of Bones/ Sacred Necromancer (from Zombie Sky Press). He has a big hulking monster a la Frankenstein. He's a disowned son of a noble turned traveling physician. He's plying his trade in town. The story opened with a descriptive "cinematic." Camera overhead sweeping over the frozen wastes of Irissen, moving south and east into warmer lands but flying over or past pockets of unseasonable cold. I did this to give the players a a sense of the scope of the problem once they find the winter portal in Taldor. Hopefully they'll connect the dots and realize that they're everywhere. Rather than wait around for the PC's to discover rumor's about Yuln and considering that one was a doctor and would certainly have already treated and spoken to him, I had him stumble into the town square when both PC's were there. The PC's hustled off to the massacre site. Cleverly, they immediately split the party. Ymir went to check out the wrecked carriage and Tholomin went to the one that he would soon find stuffed with zombies. You know what is not challenging to an Oracle of Bones with the Undead Servitude revelation? Zombies. One Channel later and he had two obedient and friendly zombies. Our necromancer is not one to take risks when he has perfectly good dead things to do it for him. He ordered a zombie to check the buried chest and casually watched a log send the zombie flying Ewok style. Thanks to its DR, the zombie got right back up with only a few large pieces of wood jutting from its rotting flesh. It didn't seem to bother the zombie so Tholomin decided to leave the shards of wood there rather than get his hands yucky. As the snows in the Borderwood deepened, Tholomin had a zombie and his monster walk in front to break the snow a bit for the living bodies behind. A zombie was incapacitated and dragged under a snow bank by the Tatzylwyrm (I used a suggestion in the GM thread to have it burrow in deep snow rather than climb) but not before the monster landed a critical hit on the wyrm severely injuring it. It settled it's future meal under the snows and went out for more, pouncing on the monster who casually caved in its skull. We only had a couple hours to play so that was it for the first session. Ymir is somewhat uncomfortable with Tholomin's necromancy and a nifty philosophical debate on the merits of (possibly) evil things being done for the greater good was fun. However, while I think that might be fun in the beginning I don't think I want it to be a running theme. I'd rather they were friends as well as allies and not constantly debating or bickering about tactics or use of necromancy. Ymir's player brought it up before I even had a chance to, which was good. Hopefully, he'll find an organic way to make the character come to terms with it. If not, I think having Nadya take Tholomin's side will help. She'd raise a thousand dead if it would have saved her daughter, Thora, and I don't think she'd be afraid to say so. Between work and kids we only get to play every other week for the most part so tune in in two weeks (if you care) for a full session. I suspect we'll get though the lodge and maybe even the winter portal then.
So, I've always understood a monster's spells or SLA's to be like a sorcerer's spells. If it says: 1/day: Freedom of Movement, Ice Storm I've always believed it could cast one or the other. Then I'm reading Reign of Winter. And in it, the tactics section suggests that the enemy casts Freedom of Movement before combat and Ice Storm on his first turn. What the what, ya'll?
So this spell is confusing. Your unarmed strikes release blasts of energy in the form of bolts of fire or glowing red crows, which fly instantaneously to strike your target. You can make unarmed strike or flurry of blows attacks against the target as if it were in your threatened area; each successful attack deals damage as if you had hit it with your unarmed strike, except half the damage is fire and half is negative energy (this negative energy does not heal undead). For example, if you are a 14th-level monk, you can use a flurry of blows to attack five times, creating one energy crow for each successful attack against the target, and dealing 2d6 points of damage (plus appropriate unarmed strike modifiers) with each crow. The casting time is 1 round and the duration is instantaneous. How does this spell play out? You cast it one turn and the next turn you can flurry once with this spell afterwards? Can you make the unarmed attacks as part of the casting? What happens if you cast it on an ally?
After spending several hours running the Arena's of Doom and several more thinking about what I've learned, I'd like to propose a few changes to the class that I think would make it more interesting and playable. Right now, I judge it to be somewhat interesting but not terribly playable. These changes might fix that. Gunslinger's Care: Somewhere in the low-mid levels an ability to reduce misfire chances by 1 (minimum 0) would be nice. My objections to the onus of misfires for the Gunslinger class has been vocal but I think it bears repeating. Right now, the Gunslinger suffers from action economy issues clearing jams, the chance of destroying his beloved and expensive weapon, and the need to always keep Grit on hand to clear jams or prevent an explosion. In addition to needing to keep one Grit in the bank for the abilities which require it, this means that Gunslingers will rarely have much Grit to use on other abilities. Which brings me to my next point... More Grit: They just don't have enough right now to use all their cool abilities and prevent trouble. I'd rather see an amount similar to the Ki Pool without a recharge mechanic or somewhere in between that and what we have now. Gun Training: For those of us with a very specific idea of how our PC uses a gun, Gun Training can be useless after the the first time you get it. Roland takes Gun Training for the Pepperbox and level 5 and never needs it again. I suppose it's possible that he might get it for the Dragon Pistol or Blunderbuss at 9, but equally possible that he wouldn't. Gun Training after that is definitely not going to be very useful. I suggest that Gun Training have some options. 1) As written. 2) Add +1 to damage with a weapon you already have Gun Training with. 3) Add +1 to hit with a weapon you already have Gun Training with. This change would also give an opportunity to include Gun Training Feats. For example: Keen Shot (Gun Training)
Cool and fun and great for those of us who want to focus on a specific gun. Everloaded weapon enchantment: Gunsmith is a great help in reducing the cost of ammo, which I find to be greatly out of proportion to the effectiveness of a gun. A simple +2 or so enchantment that ensured that there was always a standard bullet in your gun. You would still get use out of Rapid Reload and Lightning Reload when using special Alchemical Cartridges, which more and more are seeming like they will be a very important part of this class moving forward. More Weapon Customization: I'd like to see some options to modify weapons from an engineering standpoint. This would be an extension of the Gunsmith class ability and similar to Wizard's enchantments but Ex instead. I'm sure you guys can think of some cool things. How about steam power so you don't have to pay for powder? Flechette launching that makes the gun do P and S instead of B and P. Right now, it doesn't seem like the gun is a terribly special weapon in any way other than resolving vs touch AC and blowing up in your hand. I think the gun would be way more interesting if the Gunslinger could really make it his. The way every Summoner's Eidolon can be different except make it cost cash and time. Maybe this idea gets too close to steampunk, too close to modern stuff. Maybe include it as an optional sidebar? I think it would be really neat, though. --- I think those are the main things I'd like to see moving forward. I'll be back in here if I think of something or forgot something but I think these ideas get this class on track to be among the most cool and interesting around.
Human Gunslinger 11 “Roland”
Feats
Gear (82,000)
Init +9 AC 33 (7dex+9armor+1nat+1def+1dodge+4 shield)
CMB +11
Grit 3 103hp Fort 12 (7+3res+2con)
Pistol
It’s less impressive than the old version but I’m still calling that last one Bulletstorm. --- CR8 – Hydrodaemon (Bestiary 2)
Roland takes a 5’ step and bullet storms again. After the first two shots, one barrel is loaded with Lightning Reload and the others with Paper Cartridges. Four hits (8,11,6,10). The four normal hits deal 38 (26 remains).
Roland blasts away again (19,19,6,5) and he hits thrice for 26 damage killing the Hydrodaemon. --- YD’s Notes: OK, so that took a little longer because Roland gets fewer shots off with Bulletstorm without a second gun. However, having that hand utilizing a Darkwood Shield tossed his AC through the roof so that’s nice. I went over this fight in my head and it went faster when I did it that way and when I set out to write it out it took longer. That's because I forgot my pickle! If I had been using Deadshot instead of Rapid Shot I would have had a lot less damage negated by DR making the fight go quicker. So that would have been nice. What if Roland had a Revolver? Reliable goes out the window for Keen and that would save on bullets when the crits occur, I guess. Gold cost for crafting ammo? 8.8g in bullets and 24g in paper cartridges (32.8g total) vs 90g for metal cartridges because of the lowered number of shots needed due to the Keen crit on the last round. --- 2x CR 9 – Frost Giants Initiative will go Frost Giant 1, Roland, Frost Giant 2. Frost Giant 1 throws his boulder. Natural 20 with another 20 to confirm. 38 damage (65 remains). Frost Giant 1 moves forward 35’ to stand to the gunslinger’s left 5’ away (so as to not provoke an AoO) drawing his sword as he goes.
Roland uses Rapid Shot in conjunction with Deadly Aim and Lightning Reload and fires at Frost Giant 2 and hits thrice (7,5,1,4) but the miss is a misfire! The shots that connect deal 73 damage (60 remains). Bleeding shot hits Frost Giant 2 for 7 per turn.
Roland uses a Grit to clear his gun as a move action and Lightning Reload to swift action a bullet into his gun. His shot connects (3) and he deals 26 damage (27 remains).
Roland doesn’t use Rapid Shot this time and fires the two shots that he’d need to rip this giant up (18,18) dealing 46 damage. --- YD’s Notes: So the really good news here is that Roland actually lived through the fight this time. That’s mostly because Roland is not using TWF and has a shield instead. Having Lightning Reload as part of normal Deed progression and cartridges allowed Roland to take a different Signature Deed for free/cheap bleeding. I definitely like that and it was fun to use. Fun fact: you know how in the level 6 playtest I said “Misfires suck because if I rolled a 1 and a 4 in succession my gun would blow up in my face? Guess what? I rolled a 1 and a bloody 4. Luckily, the gun has the Reliable property and I didn’t remember to roll 4 shots in the round before so that chamber wasn’t loaded with a paper cartridge. But if it had been? Boom, that’s 20,000g worth of crushing despair. Well, technically just a burned Grit for Expert Loading but you get the point. And, yes, I recognize that I probably should have stopped rolling at that misfire but it seemed like a good idea at the time. So, what if Roland had a revolver? Well, as we noted before, it definitely costs more. Additionally, without a misfire to clear, Roland would have killed Frost Giant 2 before he got a chance to actually connect with his axe. Saving myself 22 damage is certainly worth the cost. --- Further thoughts: So, I realized that Gun Training is awesome at 5th level and then kind of sucks for some PCs. I like Roland with a pistol. If it weren't for the feat tax and serious to hit penalties, I'd be spending my gold on another pistol, not a blunderbuss or musket. It would be nice if Gun Training had the option to get better at one gun instead of getting ok with a bunch of guns. Startling Shot may be a little overpowered right now. Perhaps it would be better if the opponent was only flatfooted against the Gunslinger's attacks. Presumably, the fellow can still react normally when an axe is being swung at his head, right? Next up for a Hard Difficulty encounter is no fewer than three fricken Jyoti. Wish our intrepid hero luck!
I've used all the same rolls as I did previously in this test whenever possible and resolved the rolls according to the new Gunslinger. Human Gunslinger 6 “Roland” Str 10
Feats
Deeds
Gear (16,000)
Init +8 AC 23
CMB +0
Grit 2 58hp Fort 8
Pistol
CR 3 – Wight Wight wins Initiative. Roland is angry as he’s worked very hard on a nice initiative score. Moves forward 30’ and attacks but misses (11).
YD’s Notes: Roland killed the Wight a round earlier this time because of Deadly Aim. Although this makes no functional difference as the Wight was unable to hit the old Roland, it’s still a nice thing. --- CR 4 – Phycomid (Bestiary 2) Roland wins initiative. He shoots twice with Deadly Aim (8,2) and hits dealing 19 damage (20 remains). The second shot misfires
Roland Quick Clears the Pepperbox with a Grit point as a move action and shoots again with Deadly Aim (6) and hits for 15 damage (5 remains). He takes a 5’ step back.
Roland fires without Deadly Aim since the Phycomid is so shredded (18,4). Both are hits dealing 13 and 9 damage killing the plant. YD’s Notes: The fight took the same amount of time, though Roland took less damage but only because I calculated a hit from the Phycomid wrong last time. Otherwise the fight went pretty much the same. When I misfired, I was worried, but Quick Clear lets you move on pretty much without pause. Pretty cool. --- Roland accepts a CLW from the sideline cleric for 11 hp bringing his total to 58. --- CR 5 – Large Lightning Elemental (Bestiary 2) [Note: I have the option here of running flyby attacks every turn or attacking up close. Since Roland’s readied attacks to shoot the flying elemental will hit 95% of the time, better than the Elemental, and the fact that B2 describes these monsters are suicidally aggressive, I’ve opted for the latter approach.] Lightning Elemental wins initiative. Moves forward 30’ and attacks (14) for a hit. Deals 6 damage (52 remain).
The Lightning Elemental full attacks (4,4) missing twice.
Lightning Elemental full attacks again (12,17) for two hits. The hits deal 9 and 14 damage (29 remains).
Lightning Elemental full attacks (20,12) and the crit confirms (10). The Lightning Elemental deals 30 damage. Roland can still not make it to the Dark Tower. --- Analysis Time OK, so some stuff is good and some not so much. The pepperbox was great and I really like the Alchemical Cartridges, though I didn't get to use them this time. I might have tried a Flare Cartridge if I'd thought of it but the extra misfire chance would have just made me misfire that much earlier. Deft Shootist is great. It's really nice not to have to worry about AoO's all the time. I liked that. Quick Clear works great and it's the only silver lining in the horrible misfire crapstorm. I hate misfires. I hate them so much. The Gunslinger is not so amazing that his weapon needs to suck that bad. And it sucks exactly that bad. The Gunslinger needs to be able to make attacks without constant worry that two low rolls in a row will make his gun explode. That shouldn't happen. At all. Look above to where I rolled a 3 and a 6 on a full attack. Now pretend I had used a flare cartridge. And instead of a 6 I rolled a 4. My gun just exploded. That's ridiculous. Everyone else can miss badly without their face getting filled with shrapnel. I will not be able to bring myself to play this class with misfires as written. "But, YD," you say, "Gunslingers must have a negative to balance the fact that their weapon goes against touch AC." No, they really don't. Maybe some schmuck using a gun does, but not the Gunslinger. People will absolutely still play bow-using classes. The Ranger has access to more skills, an animal companion, favored enemy, and spells. That's better. Fighters will have Weapon Training and enough feats to make up for the better to hit chance of the Gunslinger and the damage bonus of Gun Training. And both of these classes never run the risk of their bow exploding in their face. Later on, when more iteratives will require more reloading even with the Pepperbox (wasn't it called a pepperpot?), the use of paper cartridges will be necessary. At that point, the Pepperbox will be missfinring on fully 15% of its attacks. It will cost more because you'll use so many paper cartridges, but it's almost worth using a pistol to shave 5% off the misfire rate. In the end, the cost in ammo will probably be markedly less than the cost of replace a +3 Pepperbox. Which brings me to a question. If I declare that I am making a full attack and the first die comes up a misfire, can I cancel the rest of the attacks? If I only shoot once because of this change, does that make it a standard action allowing me to Quick Clear the jam or does it remain a full round action? --- Other changes: Thank you so much for adopting the suggestion that I, among others, made and giving the Gunslinger crafting ability out of the gate. The reduction in cost is excellent. I think that there is slightly too little Grit available to the Gunslinger. Currently, I feel I always need to keep two Grit available to Quick Clear a jam and to keep one around for Deft Shootist. Just Making it 1+Wis mod would allow me to use things like Deadeye and Dead Shot with more confidence. I'm glad to see Utility Shot earlier in the progression. While such an ability is unlikely to see use in the Arena, I can see where I might use them in normal gameplay. Dead shot is somewhat confusing. If I have 20 Dex and use it with a +1 flaming pistol and hit twice is it 2d8+2d6+12? The bit about "extra damage from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed" is confusing to me. Otherwise, this is a great ability for dealing with pesky DR. I like Targeting and do not find it to be overpowered compared to the abilities of classes typically seen as "top tier." Lightning Reload is good to see in the normal progression of abilities but seems useless for pistol wielders as using an Alchemical cartridge with Rapid Reload is already a free action. Perhaps they ought to be able to load two barrels with this deed? Evasive, Menacing Shot, and Slinger's Luck (I believe it should be 'Slinger's) are all great and appropriate for 15th level abilities. I think Menacing Shot should probably use Wisdom instead of Cha, though. The DC for that will be pitifully low for most Gunslingers. It still seems that pistols are considered one handed weapons for the purposes of TWF. This makes it very difficult to use two pistols as is so common in popular culture. That's disappointing. At the very least, the coat pistol should be treated as light.
So here's Metal Cartridge from the doc:
And here's Revolver:
It sounds from Metal Cartridge that all 6 shots of the Revolver would be reloaded with a single action and that all 6 shots cost only 20g. But the revolver says that it takes a Metal Cartridge in each of the six chambers.
After running all three UC playtest classes through their paces in Arenas of Doom I wanted to collect all my thoughts in one place. A Note to Developers:
Gunslinger
Roland's biggest problem in his time in the Arena was reloading time and provoking attacks of opportunity. If we're meant to use guns nearly exclusively it would be really nice to have the ability to reload faster and provoke less. On the other hand, if they're meant to switch to melee like the classic musketeer, they should have some abilities which benefit that. Guns and ammo are cost prohibitive. This is a good thing. It provides a goos barrier to entry so that not every PC in the game has a gun. That's cool. But a crafting and engineering aspect to the class could make each Gunslinger more unique and remove the barrier to entry that shouldn't exist for the class these guns are meant to most benefit. In the next version of the playtest I hope to see some additional guns but I'd also like to see two essential questions answered. First, do guns within their first range increment, the touch increment bypass DR? This line "Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks" leads to some confusion. Second, are pistols, like hand crossbows, considered light in the off hand? It's somewhat hard to give accurate testing. Ninja
But the Ninja says "Screw you!" to that paradigm and walks on water, walls, and air in his search for asses to kick. That's pretty awesome. I see a lot of people with balance concerns, particularly about Invisible Blade. While it may need to be toned down in duration to 1/2 level, I don't want it to be too watered down. It's really pretty balanced against classes like the Inquisitor and Bard, even its better than the Rogue. That last bit isn't saying much since the Rogue is kind of anemic. Kato did a ton of damage and could use a ki point in clutch situations to do even more. His defenses were nothing special but once he got to be invisible every bloody fight it didn't matter much. I got Shadow Clone for him and never used it. I think that was mainly a function of the Arena style, though. In actual play, I can imagine plenty of times when Kato would have a spare standard action. I do, however, find it interesting that it is a standard action instead of the swift action for invisibility. Seems odd in retrospect though I didn't think of it until now. In any case, Shadow Clone seems to kind of go out the window once the Ninja can use Greater Invisibility. Perhaps make it a swift action? Or add an extra benefit after 10th level to keep it worth its ki point cost. Maybe it could confuse the targeting of spell casters causing a 50% chance that the spell has no effect against the Ninja. This would cause all the duplicates to fizzle as well. In conclusion, please don't beat the Ninja too much with the nerf stick. Some may call this power creep but I just consider it redressing the balance. Samurai
1. 4 skills per level is nice. One thing that I've noticed recently is how much more well rounded a character is with more skills. You get to participate more out of combat with knowledge and social skills and can be the party's go to guy for swimming or climbing or what have you. 2. The challenge mechanic works really well for my idea of a Samurai with duels and honorable combat and whatnot. I dig it. However, the Ronin's challenge is really weak compared to other Orders. I don't think that's appropriate. Just because they have a bit more roleplaying flexibility doesn't necessitate a mechanical penalty. The Wizard is arguably the most powerful class in the game but has no roleplaying restrictions at all. 3. The horse. Huh. So, I don't really picture Samurai on horses much. Or ever. But this too can be an advantage. One thing I do picture is anime characters on straight ridiculous mounts. Chocobo's, dinosaurs, and all that crap. That could be cool. Plus, it's a different way to play and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I really liked Resolve and felt it added a valuable bit of toughness to the class. So often, the only classes you really feel can survive the nasty magic being thrown at them are those with silly good saves like the Monk and Paladin and, to a lesser extent, the classes with two good saves especially when the bad save is bolstered by a key stat as it is with Rangers. But Resolve is a big help making the class durable. Especially in conjunction with the Ronin abilities Without Master and Self-Reliant (that hyphen is there on purpose and should be in the document, too). Finally, I hear some talk about trying to remove the shield proficiency from the Samurai. I think that's trying too hard at a historical context that doesn't exist in Golarion. If you don't think your Samurai should use a shield don't. But don't take options away from everyone else.
OK, so I screwed up the encounter design for the level 6 Arena of Double Doom. This time it will go right. The APL here is 10 because they are fewer than 4 players. The first encounter will be Easy (APL-1), then Average (APL), and so one. The number of enemies 1-3 will be randomized each encounter and the CR adjusted appropriately. Level 6 Human Ninja “Kato”
Feats
Ninja Tricks
Ki Points 9 Gear (82,000)
80hp AC 25 (9armor+2dex+1dodge+2def+1nat)
CMB +15
Fort 9 (3+1con+2feat+3res)
Initiative +2 Katana
--- Level 1 Fighter/ 10 Samurai Half-Orc Ronin Samurai “Sam”
Feats
Resolve 5/day Gear (82,000)
103hp AC 27 (9armor+3dex+2shield+2def+1nat)
Fort 12 (7+2con+3res)
Init +3 Katana
Ride Skill 17 Sam’s Trusty Horse “Horace”
Feats
HP 63 AC 28 (7armor+3dex+8nat+1dodge-1size)
Fort 9
Bite+10 d4+5, 2 hooves +11 d8+5
--- So that's that. I'll get the first encounter going as soon as I can. It will be a single CR 10 Bebilith. Let me know if you see anything wrong, screwy, or stupid with the PCs above and I'll make edits before we start fighting.
Not everyone is as good a game designer as Jason Bulmahn. It can be confusing to figure out what's a fair, balanced mount option for the Samurai/Cavalier. I'd like there to be a side bar or something to give some guidelines on what is balanced when. Large Cat animal companions are obviously powerful because of their Grab and Pounce abilities. Is there a level at which this is an appropriate and balanced mount? What about a Rhinoceros or Tyrannosaurus?
So, normal Arena rules apply but I’m going to also randomize how many foes they will face. On a d3, a 1 will be a single CR6, a 2 will be two CR5s and a 3 will be three CR4s. After each fight the CR’s of the various options will increase by one as normal. Level 6 Human Ninja “Kato”
Feats
Ninja Tricks
Gear (16,000)
45hp AC 21 (6armor+2dex+1dodge+1def+1nat)
CMB +9
Fort 5
Initiative +2 Katana
--- Level 1 Fighter/ 5 Samurai Half-Orc Ronin Samurai “Sam”
Feats
Resolve 3 Gear (16,000)
58hp AC 22
Fort 8
Init +3 Katana
Katana & Spiked Shield
Ride Skill 12 Sam’s Trusty Horse “Horace”
Feats
HP 30 AC 22 (3armor+2dex+6nat+1dodge)
Fort 6
Bite+7 d4+4, 2 hooves+8 d8+4 --- A 2 is rolled so our heroes will face two CR5-Ice Golems Initiative Order will go Sam, Golems, Kato.
Ice Golem 1 takes a 5’ step and attacks (randomized at first) the horse, Horace. One hit threatens (20,9) and confirms (15). Sam tries a DC 29 Ride check to negate the crit but fails (6). Horace takes 18 damage (12 remains). Ice Golem 2 takes a 5’ Step and uses Ice Breath. Sam and Horace both make their save taking 3 damage each. (Horace 15, Sam 55). Kato charges 35’ and power attacks Ice Golem 1. Unfortunately, he can’t get into a flanking position. But soon. Soon. Kato hits (6) and deals 16 damage (37 remains). Sam 5’ steps to flank Ice Golem 1 and full attacks with sword and shield. Nothing hits the golem, though (1,6,4). Horace rears up and lays into the Golem (8,7,10) hitting with everything. At least one of them is paying attention. Horace deals 9 damage (28 remains). Ice Golem 1 goes after Kato because of the serious damage dealt to him and hits once (2,20). The threat does not confirm (2). The Golem deals 11 damage (34 remains). Ice Golem 2 takes a 5’ Step and attacks Kato (randomized again), hitting once (11,8) and dealing 6 damage (28 remains for Kato). Kato attacks Ice Golem 1 but rolls a 1, missing. I’d like to burn ki to add an extra attack here but I’m not sure it’s legal. Sam attacks Ice Golem 1 hitting (17,16,7) and dealing 20 damage (8 remains). Horace hits once and deals 7 damage (1 remains). He 5’ steps to set up the flank for Kato on Golem 2. Golem 1 attacks Sam and hits once (20,3) but cannot confirm (4). Its slam deals 11 damage (47 remains for Sam). Golem 2 continues to beat at Kato and hits once (14,4) dealing 10 damage (18 remains). Kato attacks Golem 2 using a Ki point for an extra attack. This fight has lasted too long and it’s wearing on everyone. He still only hits once (1,6). Kato could take lessons from Horace or a tree. He is a depressing Ninja. He deals 24 damage to Golem 2 (29 remains). Sam swings on Golem 1 to drop it and hits once with his sword (1,16) dropping the construct. His shield hits Golem 2 (12) for 4 damage (25 remains). Horace attacks Golem two and bite and hoofs him (13,17,3) for 9 damage (16 remains) Golem 2 attacks Kato again and hits twice (14,17) dealing 22 damage and knocking Kato unconscious. Sam unloads on the Golem hitting thrice (6,11,12) dealing 26 damage killing the Golem. --- So that was unfortunate. The good guys got a lot of 1’s while the golems got a lot of 20’s, even if they couldn’t confirm much. The DR made the golems tough to kill, too. This was a hard difficulty encounter according to encounter rules so maybe it’s not that surprising that one died and everyone was beat to hell. I should have probably been more aggressive with my use of class abilities but I didn’t want to blow my whole wad before getting very far in the arena. It wasn’t until afterwards that I thought to check the difficulty level of the fight. Oops. With a use of Vanishing Trick and a Challenge, this fight would have definitely gone better. Still, I hope someone learned something good from this other than how do design an encounter better, which was my lesson for the day.
Human Gunslinger 11 “Roland”
Feats
Gear (82,000)
Init +9 AC 28 (7dex+9armor+1nat+1def)
CMB +11
Grit 3 103hp Fort 11 (3+3res+2con+3tough)
Pistol
--- CR8 – Hydrodaemon (Bestiary 2)
Roland bullet storms again, fighting defensively. AoO is a miss (4). Five hits (8,11,6,10,20) and the crit confirms (4). The four normal hits deal 59. The crit deal 34 damage. The Hydrodaemon is obliterated. --- So, that was actually fun. Sad that it took until level 11 to make it fun. So making full attacks is where its at. Finally getting to be a bad ass makes the class cool. It would be excellent if we could find a way to do that earlier. It was also pretty nice to be able to use some of the Deeds. Covering Shot is much more handy than I gave it credit for. I had forgotten just how many penalties are associated with the entangled condition. I really didn't need to use Bleeding Shot but I figured what the hell, get it in there. Luck favored my action and recovered me the grit point for that. --- Up next is a Greater Ice Elemental. I cannot seem to do an Arena playtest without an elemental in it. And they're always hard as hell.
Also, I can't believe I didn't notice at first that Perception isn't a class skill for Gunslingers. That's ridiculous. Go watch The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly again. Do you think Eastwood's ice blue eyes don't deserve Perception as a class skill? Rooster Cogburn of True Grit only had one eye and noticed more than a Gunslinger would. Roland of The Dark Tower was described as having "bomber's eyes" so frequently I got sick of it. Yet another reason this class should be based off the Ranger.
For those of you unfamiliar with the YuenglingDragon Arenas of Various and Sundry Dooms(TM), this is how it goes. I make a PC and run it through the Arena fighting one randomly determined monster per round. Between fights he may drink a potion of CLW of which he has 5 and even be healed by Clarice the Sideline Cleric who will give him 2 CLW and 1 CMW. In this Arena, the Gunslinger's pistols will be assumed to be reloaded between fights. Human Gunslinger 5 “Roland”
Feats
Deeds
Gear (10,500)
Init +7 AC 20
Fort 5
Pistol
Bayonet
Roland takes a 5’ step back and shoots with one pistol (20), drops it, and quick draws the other shooting with it as well (3). Crit confirms (10) and that Wight is screwed. Crit deals 12+36=48 and the other shot deals 13 damage. Interestingly, if I hadn’t rolled a crit, I would have been 2 damage short of killing the Wight but the Wight would still not have hit in the second round. Edit: Did I do that right with dropping and quick drawing the pistols? Seems like it should be legal.
So a +1 weapon requires 1000 gold in raw materials. What constitutes raw materials for this? Do you have to have the gold to buy random stuff like virginal blood and newt's eyes, which implies the necessity of a town or city where these sorts of things are stockpiled for the inevitable adventurer. Does some part of the value of +1 armor or a different +1 weapon constitute raw materials? Some part of the value of a non-magical but still pricey jade figurine?
Human Magus 12
Traits
Feats
Arcane Pool: 11=6+5 Arcana
Equipment (108k)
HP 87 AC 30
Init +11 BAB +9/+4 Full Attack
Spells 1st (7)
2nd (6)
3rd (5)
4th (4)
--- CR9 – Nessian Warhound
--- Well, that was ridiculous. I felt kind of bad about the whole thing. In all fairness, though, it was a good example of the nice variety of the Magus list. Chill Shield would have been really useful if the thing had ever hit me. ---
So I realized when we were discussing PrC options for the Magus that there isn't much of interest after level 11 for the Magus. Some people might want Heavy Armor, but it's not a big draw for Dex builds or anyone else that wants to maintain 30' base speed. Let me get one thing out of the way, though. I love the Magus and it will be my next PC. This thread isn't meant to bash the Magus at all. Looking at other comparable classes after level 11, the Inquisitor gets better Judgments and more of them, Greater Bane, Exploit Weakness, Third Judgment, and Slayer. The Bard gets better at all the big buffs he rocks, Inspire Heroics, and Frightening Tune. The Magus needs something to keep people in the class after level 11 or 12 in my opinion. Something around level 14 or 15, probably. Early enough to get in the AP's but late enough that it can be pretty powerful. Right now I feel like it hearkens back a bit to 3.5 when eventually everything got a PrC. Certainly not as bad as it was but it's just the feeling I get. I don't know what it should be. Maybe an increase in damage caps for low level spells? Something that would make Shocking Grasp and Ultimate Magic touch spells from the level 1-2 lists good again in the latter levels. Thanks for reading.
Why can't you use some points to uses the day-limited Arcana more? Something like 2 points for the second usage, 3 points for the third, and so on. I was thinking about this last night and the power level doesn't seem off the charts, it might even be underpowered after Improved Pool Spell. Before level 11, the two points you'd uses to get an extra use of Empower for, say, Scorching Ray could be used to get another whole Scorching Ray. After 11, it's worth 2 additional Scorching Rays. Of course, by 11 you can cast Ball Lightning and whatnot, but Scorching Ray is probably going to do more damage on average since it doesn't allow a save. Am I missing some reason why it would be unbalanced to allow a Magus to choose a bit more quality over quantity?
Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. Now, I say that if you can do any action that requires one hand to perform, you can make a full attack with a one handed or light weapon. My GM says that because later, in the section where it gives examples of actions, it says "an attack" you can only make one attack. Thoughts on who is right?
Human Magus 8
Traits
Feats
Arcane Pool: 7 Arcana
Equipment (33k)
HP 59
Fort 9
Init +6
Full Attack
Spells
2nd
3rd
The rules will be the same as in my Magus v1 Arena of Doom. One randomly determined monster from each CR from 4 until death. Between fights the Magus can use a Pearl of Power or drink a potion. He may also take advantage of healing from sideline cleric (3x CLW, 3x CMW, 2x CSW). CR4 – Sea Hag
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CR5 – Mummy
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CR6 – Will o’ Wisp
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Thoughts so Far:
More to come later. Must sleep eventually. Coming up next is a Warmonger Devil! Will our hero survive? Probably not! That thing has a trident!
I had really hoped to be able to use these two things together but I'm pretty disappointed in the system. Although it has the capability to make nearly all the words into touches and rays almost all have saves, too. At this point it also has an insufficient number of buffs to make a Magus who is a buff specialist. Sad times.
So only the 0-level spells and a couple other spells allow no saving throw when they're a ray or touch spell, unlike a lot of rays and touches. Was this an oversight or included for balance? Pathfinder currently lacks a high number of these types of spells but this doesn't really add to that number if it allows you to fail twice and no one uses those options.
So I want to do a test of a Magus with Words of Power on Monday or Tuesday so I thought a baseline performance ought to be created. I realize that this board is no longer really monitored by Devs but that's ok since this is mainly for me until I refer to it for next weeks release of Words of Power. The rules for the arena are this: There will be a fight randomly chosen from among the monsters of CR4 through death. The combatants will be chosen by a random number generator from the Monster DB at d20PFSRD. Between each fight, the Magus will be able to use one of his CLW potions or a Pearl of Power. Our intrepid hero may also make use of the party healer at this time and receive healing. He has 2 Cure Light, 2 Cure Mod, and 2 Cure Serious available to him. If he makes it past CR 8 I might give him a Cure Critical or two. These will be cast by a level 8 Cleric. Human Magus 8
Traits
[I realize that these are not totally optimized but it's the Magus I'll probably play and represents a bit of balance between social and combat optimization] Feats
Arcana
Equipment (33k)
HP 59
Fort 8
Init +6 BAB +6/+1 Full Attack +17/+12 d8+12 (2-handed)/d8+14(2-handed +Arcane Strike)/d8+9 (1-handed)/d8+11 (1-handed + Arcane Strike) Spells 1st
2nd
3rd
On to the fight! CR 4 – Algoid from the Tome of Horrors
So, the Magus was pretty good, dealt decent damage with and without Spell Combat. I thought the unholy pummeling I got from the Algoid (I accidentally did damage for the animated tree, which is why it did so much) was going to be my downfall but it was the Hold Person that got me.) The Magus I built has a slight Will save issue, though my save would have to be really high to overcome the crap rolls there. Edit: Frak. Just spotted another mistake. Arcane Weapon should have boosted the sword to +4. Not that it would have made much of a difference but still...
Break Enchantment reads:
Feeblemind reads: Target creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them. The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind. A creature that can cast arcane spells, such as a sorcerer or a wizard, takes a -4 penalty on its saving throw. So by the RAW of Feeblemind, Break Enchantment does not work. However, it is a 5th level spell that is not affected by Dispel so Break Enchantment would seem to work. Is this a case of the specific overruling the general or an oversight?
Right now the group is shaping up to be Hungry Ghost Monk, Life Oracle, Two-hander Ranger, and me. This is subject to change since we're about 4 weeks out from starting. I am using an 20 Point buy but hoping for a 25 so I can boost Str some. Human Magus 1
Traits
Feats
Arcana
Thoughts? Running a Scimitar and making room for Dervish Dance would probably be more ideal but I'm playing a Falchion wielding Paladin right now and I feel like I'd be doing too much of the same thing if I did scimitar. Not totally against it if someone can convince me, though I'm sure my GM will give me sh*t about being a powergamer. Whatever. I will fight him. Is Hasted Assault a trap? Seems by then I ought to just cast haste, right?
Note: This is not a post meant to antagonize or bother the good folks on Paizo. I'm merely hoping for info. So where is the rest of the playtest? It's been over a month since the Magus playtest ended (10/4) and no Words of Power and no new Magus build to throw into the grinder. So what's up? Paizo Halloween party still have you guys hung over? Zombies? Giant cheese wheel a la Andrew Jackson?
Searched but didn't find this addressed anywhere else. The Beast Totem rage power states: While raging, the barbarian gains a +1 natural armor bonus. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the barbarian has attained. A barbarian must have the lesser beast totem rage power to select this rage power. A barbarian must be at least 6th level to select this rage power. So once you get it at 6th level, you have already attained four levels also. So doesn't this bonus start at +2? If so why write it that way (rather than as "+1 for every four levels after 6th") unless the last sentence regarding 6th level was for total character level and the second sentence referred to Barbarian levels only. Am I missing something?
Anyone ever play an Arcane Warrior in Dragon Age? Basically, the class sacrifices some of its mana, its potential to cast spells, to power "sustained abilities." These abilities increase armor, defense, elemental resistance, etc. Is there a way we could make this work for the Magus? The Magus Arcana as written are neat but require too much in continuing resources. If we cut down on this by sacrificing spell slots for longer term benefits they'd be much more used, I think. Would it be possible to stop the benefit to free up a spell slot later? If it took, say, a minute so it wasn't something you did in combat and such? I had a similar idea when I was reading "The Warded Man". Good book, by the way. Would the Magus at all benefit from permanently surrendering spell slots for permanent benefits like wards? Sort of like the old Tattooed Monk.
I didn't see anything in my admittedly cursory search of the site but hopefully I'm not asking something that has been asked recently. How do you drawn a Wall like Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier? Should it be along a line on a grid or can it go down the middle of squares? Or either? The section in the two spells mentioned above that describe how to deal with a creature through whom the wall passes seems to imply the latter but could just be included for Large and larger creatures.
Last night we fought a dragon with SR 27. Three or four spells (half with the benefit of Spell Penetration) bounced off the Spell Resistance before a hasted full attack from a smiting Paladin (me) brought it down. Are there good spells to use in this situation that bypass SR? Items other than the Ioun Stone that increases caster level that would be handy? Is the best thing to do to just buff the hell out of anyone with armor and a decent BAB until the bad guy is dead and the casters can stop cowering? Black Tentacles is one I know of. It of obviously limited use against a huge Dragon, though. We asked later and I don't recall the exact number but its CMD was approximately through the frakking roof.
In undead traits:
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Ghostbane Dirge requires a fortitude save to negate. It doesn't specify that it is harmless. Incorporeal undead are therefore immune to this effect. I am not aware of any incorporeal creatures that are not undead except for one outsider. What's the deal?
Ok that was weird. Lets see if it like this post this time... I should preface this by describing our part and game. When we started Crimson Throne, it was just my brother and I and our buddy the GM starting something fun to do on the side when we couldn't get a PFS group together. So because it was just two PC's we decided on a gestalt group with 30 point buys. Then my brother's wife decided to join us so we have three lvl 11 gestalt characters. Me Inquisitor/Paladin, brother, Cleric/Ranger (archery path), sister-in-law Druid/Rogue. So anyway, I was thinking that I didn't get much out of Paladin anymore. I just got Aura of Justice for shock and awe, I get better spells from my Inquisitor half, and really all I'm doing now is getting better LoH and more time on my divine bonded falchion (plus one more use per day in a couple levels). I thought maybe if I switched to Crusader I'd get better things to do with my standard actions (right now its either just power attack or improved overrun) and the Martial Spirit Stance (heals 2hp with every successful melee attack) will probably counteract the loss of more LoH. Throwing off any status effect on me once I get Zealous Surge is pretty good, too. Should I manage to get to 17th level in this campaign I'd even get another (albeit weaker) Smite. What do you think?
first of all, there is a rules forum if you scroll a bit further down. A mod will probably move this there later. As to your question, cleave and two weapon fighting do not interact. A cleave attack is a separate standard action that is done with only one weapon. A two weapon cleave feat would be neat and something you gys could brew up with your DM's permission. Edit: Where the devil did the question go?
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