Skrayper's page

This whole thread sounds like a case study in arrogance.

I'm looking for ways to make Good Hope better for everyone (not just feats that boost my own bonus from it). Being a morale bonus, it can stack with Bardic Inspiration so it is of particular interest to me.

So far I've found a trait, Rousing Courage:

Rousing Courage

Source Divine Anthology pg. 16
Category Religion
Requirement(s) Andradd
A dwarven warrior’s simple act of courage in Angradd’s name inspired you during one of your first battles. Now, you strive to be equally inspiring to others. Once per day, when you generate an effect that grants a morale bonus, increase that bonus by 1 for all creatures affected.

Is there anything else that improves the bonus from Good Hope? I could have sworn there was an item or a feat that boosted morale bonuses that come from you, but for the life of me cannot find it.

Again, for the sake of creatures that for all intents and purposes are not in initiative, I would allow a partial charge as part of someone entering combat mid-initiative from surprise, because that is the equivalent of them only having that one standard action readied, if it were in a real surprise round.

But, yes, dropping down can be as simple as a 5ft step off a ledge and therefore a free action. It does require you to be more or less directly overtop of someone, but along a city alleyway, tree-canopied road, or even complex cavern system, that's not too improbable.

Technically 5-foot steps aren't "free actions" - they're more like shortened move actions that allow for full-round attacks, but you can't 5-foot step, attack once, then take a full move.

That said, Ryze is 100% correct. Per the rules:

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement.

Falling is a kind of movement. It may not require specific locomotion or physical effort on your part, but it is voluntary and on your turn (as opposed to, say, something else forcing you to move - though not sure how that would happen on your turn aside from frighten/panic and even then that's still your movement, you're just compelled - not forced - to do it).

Think of it another way.

I have a character that has the Angel Wings feat. I start off 510 feet up in the air. I use a swift action to grant my weapon reach (or maybe I just have a reach weapon).

I drop 500 feet. I haven't "moved" yet, and making a fly check on its own doesn't use an action, so I get an attack, then make the DC 20 check (at 12th level Swashbuckler, my fly is is already higher than 20) and fly straight back up. I'm 20 feet above my target, and next round I get a haste cast on me. I drop, full round attack, then fly 50 feet up. Rinse, repeat. Take vital strike, because I feel like doing more damage.

AoO? Not with my parry. Good freaking luck.

Hope you're built to be really good with ranged attacks. Those levels of Virtuous Bravo and ring of evasion, plus Cut and Smash from the air - any outdoor encounter, I'm practically invincible.

Or perhaps just stop 10 feet above my target. Full round attack despite starting the round nearly two football fields above my target.

All because falling is a free action.

Bouncing around and noting the lack of new 1E posts, I thought it must be because everyone was in the 2E forums... but instead those forums are practically empty.
:/

Outsiders are literally forged of plane stuff which is made from countless(trillions? Literally uncountable) petitioners evaporating into their destination of judgement.

I'm not sure I agree. You can play as an Aasimar who was born and raised on the material plane; you're still technically an "outsider" if you don't select a particular racial trait. They are stated as being at least partially composed of the essence, but they may not be fully composed of it.

Arueshalae is a strange product of a deity literally forcing change on an outsider. What jives me the wrong way is that a "redeemed/fallen" outsider looks the same. I would think the physical manifestation of concentrated lust/evil/totally not mindrape would take on a different appearance once redeemed since I would hope they no longer are made up of that stuff. Outsider's forms and soul being one and the same and all.

That's fair, but it should be noted that she caused Arueshalae to remember her mortal self; she did not directly alter the being's alignment or forcibly change her mind.

A real world parallel would be to help someone regain their memory after severe trauma, even though that may make the person you are currently interacting with change.

Nocticula being the Ur-succubus and being one of the few examples of redemption strikes me as unlikely. It would be more believable had she been a figure of legend long past and a newer succubi demon lord finding redemption.

I see what you are saying, but at the same time that meant she had way more time to claw her way back up.

Not to mention that she's Chaotic Neutral. It's not like she went all the way to Lawful Good or anything.

Skrayper wrote:

Ehhh... the idea of fallen angels is prevalent in both myth and religion, in RPGs and the real world. Why would evil be hard coded into their being but good be something that one could falter at?

Because Outsiders are their alignment. The essence of that alignment made manifest into a corporeal creature. Outsiders don't have a soul separate from their body, their body is their soul.

The supposed immutability of it makes falling or rising more significant. In theory.

I know there's fallen angels in Pathfinder. In fact, you can find them more often because turning good outsiders evil to fight PCs is a good way to use that part of the bestiary. I don't know of any particular story significant ones.

If it seems easier to fall than to rise, that's...I dunno man. Being good is hard or something. Falling angels is not my area of interest.

It's fair that it isn't in your field of interest, just a point that I'm making that angels are both outsiders and are capable of abandoning their alignment. It's harder to go a different direction, which is why we have exactly two specific examples that I know of, while fallen angels are just listed as a common event.

Skrayper wrote:

Basically, all Succubi - including Nocticula - were originally mortals. Redemption would be incredibly difficult, considering their nature, but not impossible. Nocticula was simply the first succubus, and therefor was originally a mortal. She may not remember her mortal life, but she wasn't always a spawn of the Abyss.

By that logic all demon lords were once people. Sure. I guess. I'm not saying that the others can't be redeemed if they wanted to. Just that its hard. Outsiders changing alignments should be rare.

Though, I don't think that a succubus is actually a 1 to 1 conversion of a lustful soul. Dretches and other lower demons fight and consume each other so any one demon is probably comprised of many fragments of souls. Is this borne out by any reading of the rules or lore? Depending on how reads the plurality of that succubus entry you quoted earlier, maybe.

Why would that make all demon lords people? You can ascend to become a demon lord (as Nocticula did), so you could either be a fallen mortal (just like there gods that were formerly mortals) or a demon started off as a demon.

It should be noted that Paizo treats Demon Lords as being mostly ascended demons, but others can become Demon Lords as well.

Rarely, non-demons can become demon lords. The majority of non-demons who make this transition are ascended qlippoth, but in even rarer cases, a powerful non-native of the Abyss can attract the plane’s attention and make the transition to nascent demon lord.

As for the Succubus entry, that's from Paizo. It could mean all succubi, but it at least means SOME succubi. That lends credence to the paths made for redemption I pointed out. We know for a fact that's Arueshalae’s origin; I admit to speculation if it also applies to Nocticula.

So one of the tables I run has used the Synchrony device at the end of Ruins of Azlant to blow up Tar-Baphon’s (whispering tyrant) Ise of Terror.

Due to the number of tables I run and the tables being connected in a group cannon, the Ruins of Azlant was run after Tyrants grasp.

As such it was relatively known that Tar-baphon the Whispering tyrant had escaped. Some of the players where refugees looking for a new life, and all the players were shades Lawful/Chaotic/Neutral Neutral aligned.

So at the end of the adventure they have this Synchrony Device Nuke and decide to stick it to the undead king.
After a lot of stupid high rolls, they reprogram it, fill it up with positive energy, and send it off to detonate in the center of the Isle of Terror. Killing all undead and possibly every one in the surrounding nations.

So I am looking for ideas for repercussions and story hooks, to continue their off canon campaign.

Tldr: Players Nuked Tar-Baphon’s (whispering tyrant) Isle of Terror and I am looking for story ideas.

This reminds me of a letter I saw in Dragon Magazine (or possibly Dungeon) ages ago.

A player wrote in, asking much EXP his party got because they "destroyed the planet" (I cannot recall if this was Faerun, Greyhawk, or another setting). Basically it led to people writing in saying that their own (insert absurdly powerful character here) would have stopped it. Level 40, 50, 150, whatever. Of course, the folks at TSR were dumbfounded that people thought the system let you go that high.

But yeah, the "nuke a game setting" always reminds me of that story.

Good luck, btw.

As the title asks, I'm curious what instruments peoples bards play? I have never played a bard, But I want to and I'm thinking of having my potential bard play a swedish Nyckelharpa (16 stringed keyed fiddle).

What about everyone else? What instruments do your bards play?

Violin or Fiddle, with ranks in Dance as well.

Because Lindsey Stirling.

This is one reason I've theory-crafted so many spellcasters that get familiars and give those familiars the Valet archetype. Sage is more optimal, if you want your PC to have a wand-jockey; Figment has that whole "comes back every 24 hours" thing. Valet has a lot of interesting powers that, outside of downtime may not really come into play.

However, a Valet also gets Prestidigitation at will.

If I got to play one of these casters, I'd have the Valet familiar constantly doing things like changing their hair color, creating confetti, streamers or a brief fanfare noise any time they enter a room, or making a slight breeze and faint mist so that the caster looks that much more majestic when casting spells.

In one of our campaigns, my Warpriest has a cohort (not optimal for a Cha-dump-stat class, but it was fun) that is essentially their Arcane crafting wife with a valet familiar. I decided, however, that they've been married the entire time and she was tired of hearing about his exploits and wanted to come along. So she's built for crafting but insists on adventuring with him too.

You've given me some wonderful ideas to do with her valet familiar. :)

(Plus he was the group crafter before this, and with her arrival I like to play up him being a bit jealous at her crafting ability - both are dwarves - and while his charisma is terrible (5) hers isn't bad at all (12) - so when they are RP'ing together, he's usually the grumpy, sour one while she will be energetic and willing to talk to people in a much more friendly manner)

(The party STILL hasn't figured out how on earth they ended up together. :) )

Both of those sound amazing :) I would have loved to been in that game (the one with the Hand) :)

I know someone has thought about taking the Dimension Door feats... and there's a spell I would love to use (though none of my builds can) called Bladed Dash. Mostly because I love the idea of just running by and slashing a ton of enemies, even if it isn't the greatest action economy. :)

Buying flying carpets.

Buying thousands of Liquid Blades to supply slave rebellions in neighboring territories.

Buying/making defenses for random villages they pass through.

Buying/making taverns/bars/brothels in villages they frequent when the entertainment is not up to their standards for downtime.

My goal for my character is build a tavern that we (the party) can keep coming back to. That has been a huge goal of mine - since several levels ago (hard to get back to town and get it started).

Love the idea though, honestly.

Thank you.

So the effect of "deals ...as if it were a weapon of X size categories larger", such as Lead Blade spell, Bashing, shield spikes, can not be increase the damage roll of Sacred Weapon.

While the effect of "changes the creature's size category to the next larger one",such as Enlarge Person, can increase the damage roll of Sacred Weapon.

Exactly!

Which is why enlarge person is such a good spell for a warpriest. Especially a Dwarven one, which gets to be considered large while only being about 7 feet tall.

Archetypes and hybrid classes can be a bit much for new players, they might offer some fun options to players who worry that getting saddled with a set role will suck. Show someone Investigator as an option over Rogue, or Bard with an archetype or trait that lets them disable devices. Phoenix Bloodline so that they can play a sorcerer that heals with fireballs. Even though they have experience with 2nd Ed and 5th Ed, none of these are really options and will get a chance to show what all Pathfinder can REALLY do in comparison.

I'd also tell them that it's not an issue, in these initial games, that if they want to change things about their characters (i.e. "I didn't even know that was an option!") later on, that would be fine so long as it isn't absurd. Normally changing traits is frowned upon after character creation, but when that new I don't see an issue with it so long as they're not trying to change things constantly. There's just so many resources out there for Pathfinder 1st Edition...

Skrayper, look at the Primalist archtype. That's the one that removed his "Arcane Bloodrage", because he took the Rage Powers at 4th...so the question became, would he be able to get Greater Arcane Bloodrage at 8th if he didn't have Arcane Bloodrage.

I still think he WOULD get it, but its murky...

It doesn't replace it, it alters bloodline powers instead. It has no effect on bloodrage.

Primal Choices: At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers. If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites. Any other prerequisites for a rage power must be met before a primalist can choose it. This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements.

This ability alters the bloodline class feature.

It doesn't affect those bloodrage powers at all. It alters this portion of bloodline:

The bloodrager gains bloodline powers at 1st level, 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter. The bloodline powers a bloodrager gains are described in his chosen bloodline. For all spell-like bloodline powers, treat the character’s bloodrager level as the caster level.

It can be used in conjunction with bloodrage, but that's it. No need to fret. They're losing the 1st level power to get the option for rage powers.

Well, Greater Bane as opposed to regular Bane is in the description:

Greater Bane (Su)

At 12th level, whenever an inquisitor uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the weapon against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6.

Emphasis on the word "to" at the end. That implies that the bonus dice is increased from 2d6 TO 4d6. If it said "by", then it would jump from 2d6 to 6d6.

Improved Spell Combat

At 8th level, the magus’s ability to cast spells and make melee attacks improves. When using the spell combat ability, the magus receives a +2 circumstance bonus on concentration checks, in addition to any bonus granted by taking an additional penalty on the attack roll.

This is an improvement over the original power.

Greater Shield Ally

At 12th level, whenever an ally is within an eidolon’s reach, the ally receives a +2 shield bonus to its Armor Class and a +2 circumstance bonus on its saving throws. If this ally is the summoner, these bonuses increase to +4. This bonus does not apply if the eidolon is grappled, helpless, paralyzed, stunned, or unconscious.

In each of these cases, it improves upon the original ability - so to answer your question, both exist. The Greater versions just tack on additional effects to the already existing ability, or in these three examples:

1. An extra 2d6 damage on top of what you are already getting
2. An extra +2 on concentration checks
3. An extra +2/+4 bonus to AC and Saving Throws for the eidolon

All of those add more to the original ability, but not replace it. So you technically have both.

To answer your original question though:
If you don't have the base version anymore (taking an archtype that drops it), then it can be presumed you're losing the greater versions as well as the base versions no longer exist for you to improve. I imagine all archtypes with powers like these (where the greater version simply adds to the existing base power) already include "This replaces..." for each.

There isn't a good explanation. Either you go with DeathlessOne's take that the pageant is specifically limited to faking being of high rank (despite the text not really supporting that) or else you have a weird and also overpowered ability that your lies are all true.

I would say it's just as logical as versatile performance.

Some make perfect sense (Wind for Handle Animal, for example) but others are complete nonsense when you try to apply logic outside of "it's magic" to the situation (like being able to tell when people are lying because you're really good at singing, or being very intimidating because you can play the piano).

I'd say there are still some limitations, IMHO.

First, you still shouldn't be able to use it on a knowledge skill in which you have no ranks.

Second, it's useless on craft skills for actually making things (as it only lasts for 10 minutes - you'd need 480 rounds of performance to last the 8 hours to craft something. Useful for repairs, not actual crafting.

Third, if you're a normal bard and not one with an altered version of performance, you have to have a lot of rounds before this is worth it. Great for identifying magical items, but otherwise you'll be using those to buff your party more so than using it up on skill checks.

How about a Fighter with a 6 Con. They rush into battle ... and they're down. Again.

Or especially a Paladin, thanks to that immunity to fear.

"For the love of Moradin!"

Whole party:

"No, please stop. PLEASE STOP... and he's down."

Well, I'll get Dazzling Display by 3rd currently. That said, going the route of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler would actually work really well as the character. I'd lose a couple of skill points, but I would get a lot of panache points with my stat block. Plus it actually works really well with my character concept. Thanks for pointing it out :)

Natural lycanthropy allows you to change at will (being born with it). The curse is specifically for those who get it from a bite:

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su)

A natural lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target with lycanthropy (Fortitude DC 15 negates). If the victim’s size is not within one size category of the lycanthrope, this ability has no effect.

That leads to the following:

An afflicted lycanthrope can assume animal or hybrid form as a full-round action by making a DC 15 Constitution check, or humanoid form as a full-round action by making a DC 20 Constitution check. On nights when the full moon is visible, an afflicted lycanthrope gains a +5 morale bonus to Constitution checks made to assume animal or hybrid form, but a –5 penalty to Constitution checks made to assume humanoid form. An afflicted lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form automatically with the next sunrise, or after 8 hours of rest, whichever comes first.

And:

A creature that catches lycanthropy becomes an afflicted lycanthrope, but shows no symptoms (and does not gain any of the template’s adjustments or abilities) until the night of the next full moon, when the victim involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity. The character remains in animal form until the next dawn and remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he makes a DC 20 Will save, in which case he becomes aware of his condition.

I am in a game that has us at 17th level (tail end of a campaign), and was looking at Oracle builds (currently playing a Mystic Theurge in that game, but getting a sensation of spell overload - I don't remember, but I think I'm prepping about 70 or spells a day. It can be maddening trying to manage).

So, we really need the healing (aside from my Theurge, the only other true healing is a Witch and a Paladin, so high level Restoration and "Get out of death" spells are limited).

Trying to make an interesting concept, I was noting the Heavens Oracle (we're limited to Core RPG and APG only), and the Awesome Display power.

If I'm reading everything correctly, then an Oracle with the following build:

Relevant stats:
CHA 32 (18 base +2 human + 4 from leveling + 6 headband + 2 from tome)

Relevant feats:
Spell Focus: Illusion
Greater Spell Focus: Illusion
Spell Penetration
Heighten Spell
(Insert 2 more metamagic feats)
Spell Perfection: Color Spray

Relevant Equipment:
Headband of Charisma +6
Metamagic Rod Lesser - Quicken
Metamagic Rod Lesser - Widen
Metamagic Rod Lesser - Persistent

(I understand that the Heighten effect may cause the spell to count as 9th level for this purpose and therefor would require a Greater Metamagic Rod, in which case I would probably only go with Widen or Persistent)

If I am understanding the numbers correctly, then in theory you could Heighten the Color Spray to 9th level while using a 1st level slot, then the spell's effective stats are:

Save DC: 34 Will = 10 + 9 (spell level) + 11 (ability modifier) + 1 (Spell Focus: Illusion) + 1 (Greater Spell Focus: Illusion) + 2 (Spell Perfection: Color Spray)

HDs affected:
13 HD or less: The creature is unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round. (Only living creatures are knocked unconscious.)

14 or 15 HD: The creature is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, then stunned for 1 round.

16 or more HD: The creature is stunned for 1 round.

All of this coupled with using either the Persistent (forcing two saving throw rolls) or Widen (getting a larger number of targets), but with the number of 1st level spells an Oracle can cast (and not many other uses for slots that low), it seems like it would be a pretty effective crowd control. A human could also take Spell Perfection: Rainbow Pattern, to keep the Save DC incredibly high.

This also feels like it makes the Dweller in the Darkness Revelation more worth it, as the Weird effect (9th level spell) would have a Save DC of 32.

I'm not interested in trying to out damage the Fighter, Inquisitor, and Paladin in our party. We're pretty large for a group:
Fighter
Wizard (Conjuration/Summoning Build)
Paladin
Witch
Inquisitor

My character, the Mystic Theurge, is Cleric 4/Wizard 3/Theurge 10 (I wanted to see what the build was like). I end up handling a lot of the bigger heals (Heal, Breath of Life, Restoration, Greater Restoration), but my arcane side is almost purely buffs at this stage.

I considered going Life Oracle and just make the healing absurdly powerful, but worry that would leave me a bit bored in combat. Maybe not, but still.

I'm open to other builds and suggestions as well.

Thanks!