Pageant of the Peacock: How do you describe it in game.


Advice


I keep looking at this ability, since it's both potent and bizarre, and I'm not sure how to explain it as it happens. I see that it defaults to a supernatural effect, which helps somewhat, but that's all I got. Is the character effectively b@!#*$~&ting his way to the truth? Are they channeling some secret knowledge encoded in the dance? Are they just assuming authority and being granted it?

As it stands, I'd just treat it as the person acting like they know what they're doing so well that they land on the truth due to all other possible deceptions being less convincing. I'm curious how others have managed it though.


I'm not sure what the problem is. You are using dance/body language to make yourself appear to be something you aren't (namely a person of higher status/station) and effecting the illusion of certain lineage or noble breeding stock. It is both acting and/or dance that is being used.

Outside the scope of doing exactly that, the masterpiece has very little use. As far as using it within the game, it seems that the character is merely using their own inner resources (namely performance rounds) to mimic behavior they've seen before and supernaturally enhance it 'somehow' to seem convincing. It is not likely effecting others, just themselves, which plays into the bonus during their roll, rather than allowing a saving throw against the effect.


Pageant of the Peacock wrote:
By gracefully weaving your body through subtle forms and postures you can convince others of your breeding, eloquence, and refinement. For the duration of the effect, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on Bluff checks, and may attempt a Bluff check in place of an Intelligence check or Intelligence-based skill check. The subtle changes in your movements also confer a +4 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks to appear to be someone of a higher station (an aristocrat, merchant prince, or even a queen).

The bonus to bluff and disguise are obvious, the problem is probably justifying how a bluff check replaces an int skill roll. Saying "The sky is purple" and getting someone to believe that the sky is purple (for a time) with Bluff is one thing. But if you roll a Pageant of the Peacock/know:nature(int skill) bluff check, the sky is NOT purple no matter how much you bluff it is purple. IMO the magic of the PoP just lets the appropriate knowledge come to your subconscious and you bluff with the truth.

You might try searching "Pageant of the Peacock", it looks like this is a question that has come up a few times.


But the sky is normally purple! Half the light is violet. It's just that the human eye is tuned to blue light more than violet and sees the blue/violet mix as just blue.


I've been poking through such threads. They seem to get overwhelmed by folks who are very angry about the ability existing and rationalizing away the actual effect, rather than describing it.


DeathlessOne wrote:

I'm not sure what the problem is. You are using dance/body language to make yourself appear to be something you aren't (namely a person of higher status/station) and effecting the illusion of certain lineage or noble breeding stock. It is both acting and/or dance that is being used.

Outside the scope of doing exactly that, the masterpiece has very little use. As far as using it within the game, it seems that the character is merely using their own inner resources (namely performance rounds) to mimic behavior they've seen before and supernaturally enhance it 'somehow' to seem convincing. It is not likely effecting others, just themselves, which plays into the bonus during their roll, rather than allowing a saving throw against the effect.

Very little use?

You may have skipped over the part where you can make bluff checks with a +4 bonus instead of any int based skill check. Of which there are many.

I'd say this ones overpowered once you actually read it

Grand Lodge

The problem is that mechanically, the masterpiece has a very low cost for what amounts to be a big benefit. Ultimately there's enough bardic performance rounds that the pool is unlikely to be completely used, so that allows the piece to be used during most of the adventuring time at one point. It reinforces the potential SADness of the class and it amounts to the same as giving more skill points to someone who already has a lot.

I won't exaggerate much when I'll be saying that a 14-int human bard has 9 SP/level, and the masterpiece giving out maybe an extra 3, all the while decently fighting if mainly built dex or str and being better than any class on int-based checks on most of the cases.

That's why I banned it from my home games, and I would expect many other GMs to do the same. No wonder why many are angry even at simply hearing/reading from the name.

All of this regardless of any (even justified) RP reasons for it.


Cavall wrote:

Very little use?

You may have skipped over the part where you can make bluff checks with a +4 bonus instead of any int based skill check. Of which there are many.

I'd say this ones overpowered once you actually read it

Yes, very little use. The situations it would be useful in are fairly narrow. If you are talented enough to be able to convince a DM that EVERY time you need to make a bluff check, you are pretending to be someone of a higher station/status and that such an instance of being perceived as one would be helpful to your situation, then you will get more mileage out of the ability than most. The ability is not a "blanket-catch-all" bonus to bluff checks. Some bluffs aren't believable regardless of how well you roll, and that is determined by the DM.


Again, how are you missing the fact you can make a knowledge roll using bluff with a +4 bonus?
Or any int based skill check or int based roll? Spell craft. Appraise. Knowledge. All of them.

The bluff IS a blanket bonus. The DISGUISE bonus is specific. It's written right into it.

You're not reading the masterpiece correctly and it's been copied to this thread.


No, I am taking a very specific reading of the ability that does not allow it be abused in the manner you seem to think it applies. Yes, you can make a knowledge check, using bluff, with a +4 bonus. Yes, you can also use any int based skill check or int based roll using the bluff skill. No, you can't use it at any time or anywhere. You can only do so while trying to "convince others of your breeding, eloquence, and refinement" while using the power of this masterpiece.

You can disagree with me all you want. The masterpiece has specific and limited use. If you want to use the ability differently, do so at your own table and deal with the consequences of that decision.

Grand Lodge

Everyone reads it the way personally wanted, anyway. Nobody can claim one reading is the truth, and the others are wrong.

Opinion from a Paizo official, nothing below it will definitely decide.


All the "I don't think it works like that" aside. I'd still like advice on how to describe the effect with the assumption that using your bluff in place of intelligence checks gives you the effect of an intelligence check rather than a bluff check. There's more than enough discussions on the other end of the topic in the rules section.


"The *Duke Fakery of Notarealplace* gestures as if to brush your rustic ideas aside. "Of course everybody just knows that the finest wines come from the south coast of Marinteau (which everybody of course knows) but not many are privy to their special stocks". He rolls his eyes and stares at the ceiling. "There is a pink flowered variety of the great red sundew (bluffed knowledge: nature) that makes an absurdly delicate chianti, but unless it's fermented with yeast collected in early May, the flavor fades within the first year of aging (bluffed profession: brewer). In Notarealplace, we always get the first casks - Baron Whatever, the boor, thinks he gets the good stuff" (bluffed knowledge: nobility). The *duke* turns to look at you plainly. "Will that be all? Perhaps you could fetch me something worth drinking?" His gaze shifts to study the fingernails of his left hand".


EldonGuyre wrote:
**snip**

This is the right of it. It just so happens that the information you glean from such successful bluff checks in place of actual knowledge checks is being provided supernaturally correct. You may not ACTUALLY know what you are saying is correct, but the correct information is coming from your lips either way. The bardic lore is part magic (well, a lot magic) and based on little tidbits that have been heard, seen, and relayed that the bard has managed to remember, even at a subconscious level. This masterpiece is simply that taken to a (literal) supernatural level, actually channeling the temperament, stance, and intrinsic mannerisms of someone of 'higher station/status'. How well you do obviously relies on the dice.

I see nothing wrong with these particular ability used in the manner described. A flat replacement for knowledge and int based skills? Yeah, I see lots of wrong there and I don't hesitate to state it.

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