^Going for the diversified Favored Enemy bonus hurts you if you do manage to get to cast Instant Enemy.
{. . .}
Target one creature that is not your favored enemy.
{. . .}
This means that if a creature falls into one of your wimpier Favored Enemy bonuses, you can't use this spell to bump it up to max.
In contrast, Terrain Bond is at least a little bit useful unless you are in your most Favored Terrain, because it explicitly lets you treat the terrain you are in as your most Favored Terrain (which will work even if the terrain you are in would normally be one of your wimpier Favored Terrains).
Ranger gaining bonuses from knowledge checks could be a fun mechanic, for sure. Maybe give them the inquisitor treatment where they can use Wis for knowledge checks instead of Int.
dot
Instant Enemy does not come online until 10th level. A lot of games don’t get too much higher of a level, so focusing on a single enemy is rarely going to be that good of an idea.
/.../
Have a lot of medium bonuses instead of a two maxed out will usually give better results.
10th level is coincidentally also exactly when you make the choice of +2/+2/+6 or +2/+4/+4. So before level 10 you don't actually make any decision about spreading out your bonuses or not. And the issue about spreading out the bonuses is that other classes' accuracy steroids will catch up if you do so, making your FE just a more limited version of those.
A +4/+4/+2 spread at level 10 means that the Slayer (or Inquisitor) is just 1 point behind your maximum but much more flexible.
A +4/+4/+4/+2 spread at level 15 as a Ranger just means being on par with their accuracy boost, but way behind if you're not fighting your FE.
This is why Rangers trend towards stacking bonuses.
I don't doubt that your NPC sheriff was capable. But he was put by you, the GM, in a location where his prioritized Favored Terrain and Favored Enemy will always be highly relevant. PCs don't have that advantage.
===
Re: Combat Styles
I'm aware that there have been additions, and some styles are better than others (as mentioned), but generally they don't allow you to meaningfully cheat prerequisites. Let's take a closer look at the Cayden style:
2nd: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Weapon Finesse.
6th: Improved Disarm and Lunge.
10th: Disarming Strike and Improved Critical (rapier).
The bolded feats are those you already fulfilled the prerequisites for, making them equivalent to bonus combat feats if you actually wanted those feats.
Improved Disarm at lv 6 is actually pretty late, a Fighter can at this level pick up Greater Disarm. If you wanted to focus on disarm, chances are you've already taken Imp Disarm before lv 6 (qualifying through Dirty Fighting nowadays), making it worse than a bonus combat feat as you must retrain to make use of it. Furthermore, if you wanted to keep branching out in the disarm feats (like taking Wrist Grab) then cheating the Int 13 prerequisite or Combat Expertise doesn't help you at all.
And the value of cheating prerequisites of Disarming Strike at level 10 is inversely proportional to how much you've already invested in disarm. Which you've likely done if you choose a combat style based on disarm.
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Instant Enemy is a third level spell that only affects a single creature. It is more of a boss killer than a general combat spell. A 20th level ranger only gets 3+ WIS bonus 3rd level spells. That means the ranger is not going to have very many of them. You could use items to gain more, but that is going to be expensive a 3rd level pearl of power costs 9,000 GP. A wand of instant enemy goes for 15,750 GP. This means a ranger will have a very limited number of instant enemies spells available.
The real value of favored enemy is not as being able to take down the boss. It is being able to mow down large number of creatures. It is actually weaker than the buffs of a lot of other martial classes. A paladins smite evil is a lot more powerful, but it can only be used a very limited number of times per day. Favored enemy on the other hand applies vs every creature of the type. It also applies to a number of skills, so has a lot more uses. I ran an undead heavy campaign with both a paladin and a ranger in it. The campaign also included a decent number of evil outsiders. The ranger boosted both undead and evil outsiders. The paladin could take out the really tough opponents but was fairly easy to overwhelm with numbers. The ranger on the other hand took out way more creatures.
A 20th level ranger only gets 3+ WIS bonus 3rd level spells. That means the ranger is not going to have very many of them.
What game are you playing that is getting you 3+Wis bonus spells? That is a massive amount of bonus 3rd level spells and WAY MORE than a ranger actually gets by a long shot… i assume you meant to say 3+ bonus spells based on WIS…
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Yes, I am talking about 3 spells plus a number equal to your WIS bonus in 3rd level spells. The WIS bonus is a variable that you can replace with your actual WIS bonus.
I like the idea of the Ranger getting wisdom mod on knowledge skills.
I think all casters(9th, 6th, and 4th) should get +3 spell slots and maybe a few more 2nd and 3rd level spells slots. All casting classes should get cantrips.
I think cantrips should do more damage and all casting classes should get at least a few damaging dealing ones. Like bards could get a sonic based one, clerics could get alignment based ones, etc.
I like armor training for fighters though I think the play test version increased AC.
As for weapon training, I like the fact the bonuses are added to weapon groups but it could have used more. Like special abilities/skills/techniques with those weapons.
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I’ve toyed with a homebrew class inspired by the Red Mage from final fantasy, the idea would be that they’re a 4th level spellcaster but they get a ton of spells per day and scaling cantrips. Their main gimmick was going to be doublecast, where instead of gaining access to 5th, 6th, and etc spell slots they could instead cast two spells with a total level up to 5th as a full round action. So even with increased spells per day you could nova through your spellcasts if you weren’t careful.
But seriously, Ranger is a highly versatile class and easily the best class at actually surviving period. It is unreasonable to see how versatile Ranger is and in the same breath say that its a bad class because "slayer is more focused on killing things". Of course the class basixa3lly named "killer" is going to be better at killing than a class basically named "explorer".
I'll bite. How is the Ranger "easily the best class at actually surviving?"
As for "spending feats on animal companion makes you worse". What? The feats gotten for that type of build are the teamwork feats universally regarded as the most powerful way to play the game. That is before even considering that they released even better teamwork feats for companions (the Beastmaster and Linorn Hunter styles).
Feats and gold. And I said it's cutting into your competence. I'd avoid quotation marks when you're paraphrasing to that extent. Losing ~30% of your wealth and dedicating entire feat chains to a companion right when it starts to fall off gives diminishing returns.
From a glance it would be quite hard to squeeze in Beastmaster Style as a ranger. Boon Companion at lv 5, followed by four feats that must be taken with your even-level character feats as you don't get free rein bonus combat feats.
I’ve toyed with a homebrew class inspired by the Red Mage from final fantasy, the idea would be that they’re a 4th level spellcaster but they get a ton of spells per day and scaling cantrips. Their main gimmick was going to be doublecast, where instead of gaining access to 5th, 6th, and etc spell slots they could instead cast two spells with a total level up to 5th as a full round action. So even with increased spells per day you could nova through your spellcasts if you weren’t careful.
Not sure that connects to this topic, but people have made red mage classes.
https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/core-classes/red-mage/
Of course, Paizo would have too many legal headaches to ever try to release a red mage officially.
But seriously, Ranger is a highly versatile class and easily the best class at actually surviving period. It is unreasonable to see how versatile Ranger is and in the same breath say that its a bad class because "slayer is more focused on killing things". Of course the class basically named "killer" is going to be better at killing than a class basically named "explorer".I'll bite. How is the Ranger "easily the best class at actually surviving?"
Depends on what you mean by "surviving". If just living through a fight, then I feel paladin has a pretty good claim to that. If it's living off the land, ranger is good at that, though the druid can be at least as good if built for it.
Even in the worst cases, it's not like the damage difference between ranger and slayer is that large. The slayer is mostly just more reliable, where the ranger has to rely more on circumstances or abilities limited to a few times per day. But really, not every fight is meant to be that eventful. A good ranger will know when is the right time to use his spells to their best effect.
An animal companion is both offense and defense though. Sure they can dish out some decent damage, but also they can help distribute the incoming damage, making your whole party more likely to survive.
Boon Companion at lv 5, followed by four feats that must be taken with your even-level character feats as you don't get free rein bonus combat feats.
*odd
Whoops.Depends on what you mean by "surviving". If just living through a fight, then I feel paladin has a pretty good claim to that. If it's living off the land, ranger is good at that, though the druid can be at least as good if built for it.
The druid has the ranger beat imo if we're talking surviving in a wasteland. The hunter as well. Getting bonuses to Survival is cool I guess, but the ranger isn't particularly better at "surviving" than a barbarian with an equivalent survival skill bonus. The DCs are very low, too, so not much you can do with a +40 survival bonus that someone with a +15 bonus can't. (Not referring to tracking, just "surviving".)
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I would rate rangers better at living of the land than druids. They have two extra skill points and stealth as a class skill. Favored terrain can boost up a lot of those skills even higher. They also have proficiency in martial weapons, specifically bows. Rangers also have good reflex saves so will do better against hazards that require a reflex save. At third level they get endurance for free without having to spend a feat. Tracking also gives them an advantage in hunting. If they take favored enemy animal their hunting ability gets a huge boost.
Druids do get spells earlier including some useful 0 level spells. With create water a druid will never have to worry about finding water, purify food and water means they can stretch out food longer, know direction can prevent them from getting lost. Their higher-level spells can also be useful but are often used for combat meaning they may not always be able to have what they need. Rangers usually have less spell casting, and it is less effective in combat. So, in some cases the ranger may have more utility spells memorized than a druid.
The hunter is actually the best at living off the land. It has all the advantages of the ranger except favored terrain and getting endurance as a free feat. They have better spell casting than the ranger, but less than the druid. But they have access to both spell lists and use the lower of the two to determine the spell level. This means they often gain spells of 1st through 4th level as lower-level spells than the druid would.
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The problem with hunter is that it has a limited number of spells known. And many of those probably are going to be combat focused. The ranger and druid can just swap what spells they need after only one day in the wilderness.
At first level, the druid can feed the party with good berry. A hunter is unlikely to have ever learned that spell even if they technically could.
I would rate rangers better at living of the land than druids. They have two extra skill points and stealth as a class skill. Favored terrain can boost up a lot of those skills even higher. They also have proficiency in martial weapons, specifically bows. Rangers also have good reflex saves so will do better against hazards that require a reflex save. At third level they get endurance for free without having to spend a feat. Tracking also gives them an advantage in hunting. If they take favored enemy animal their hunting ability gets a huge boost.
Druids do get spells earlier including some useful 0 level spells. With create water a druid will never have to worry about finding water, purify food and water means they can stretch out food longer, know direction can prevent them from getting lost. Their higher-level spells can also be useful but are often used for combat meaning they may not always be able to have what they need. Rangers usually have less spell casting, and it is less effective in combat. So, in some cases the ranger may have more utility spells memorized than a druid.
The hunter is actually the best at living off the land. It has all the advantages of the ranger except favored terrain and getting endurance as a free feat. They have better spell casting than the ranger, but less than the druid. But they have access to both spell lists and use the lower of the two to determine the spell level. This means they often gain spells of 1st through 4th level as lower-level spells than the druid would.
create water as a cantrip and goodberry as a 1st level spell makes "living off the land" trivially easy
While spells like create water and goodberry will allow you to survive it is not really living off the land. It is more living of off magic. They also don’t do much for about finding and constructing shelter or dealing with the elements. There are of course spells that can help with those things, but if the druid uses all his spells for survival, it does not leave him much for dealing with other challenges especially combat. Both the ranger and hunter have better combat ability than the druid, so they don’t need to use magic for combat as much. All three classes are extremely good at this, but I think the edge goes to the hunter.
I was talking about the spell list and mechanics in general, more in the context of martial and 4th level casters. Obviously Druids are going to be better. Hunter is questionable, since its just better at animal handling.
Hide in plain sight, quarry, terrain mastery, ranger spells, etc. The ranger is layers upon layers of ways to overcome dangerous terrain that other classes straight up lack (baring again baring Druid).
Ah, I see. If I understand you correctly you're actually describing some kind of scout. Limiting it to martial and 4th level casters will surely give the Ranger an edge, but that didn't appear in your previous post. "Surviving" gave me a different impression.
====
Returning to the topic at hand, the Ranger's Combat Style are antiquated and the class suffers for it. If people are only choosing the same three-four Combat Styles because the remaining 90% are worse than simply having bonus combat feats then that means there's an issue. With very few exceptions, the Combat Styles no longer encourages build versatility but instead stifles it.
You can't get different feat paths online fast because you lack free combat feats. This has been much more apparent when the feat pool increased a hundredfold.
(I.e. Beastmaster Style or something similar)
You can't build on top of your existing feats without fulfilling the prerequisites, which negates the advantage of circumventing feats.
(I.e. Needing IUS for grapple feats even though you originally cheated the IUS prereq)
Proposed ranger builds are much more incestuous than other classes' because of the rigidness of the Combat Styles.
(I.e. You won't take Shield Snag instead of Shield Slam, and certain Combat Styles can be "solved" with an obvious best choice for each level)
There are some few, precious, Combat Styles that lets you meaningfully cheat either level or feat prerequisites. But for the rest I'd prefer just having bonus combat feats, thank you. I don't have a solution to these (perceived) issues, but I will say that they exist.
Would love for a Unchained Sorcerer to having a choice of bloodline powers like the Oracle has for revelations. I would say around 7 for the class plus the "extra feat". Or at least had bloodline powers at level 6 and 12 in addition to 1st, 3rd, 9th, 15th, and 20th. Another option could have them keep the original bloodline powers and add 4-7 "bloodline boons" at various levels. Bloodline boons could add more abilities that fit the bloodline, abilities that add extra uses or enhance existing bloodline powers, or just add generic abilities like darkvision, energy resistance 5, etc.
Change bloodline skills to add more class skills of your choice as an option and gain free skill ranks in one of your bloodline skills.
I completely get the (earlier) argument about early-level Wizard survivability... but I'm not sure that the number of Magic Missile spells you could cast at 1st level is a worthwhile talking point. Unless you're going solo as a Wizard, such a character has VERY worthwhile spells that, in conjunction with low saving throws at early levels, allow you to take out of the combat one or more creatures per round--both at range and up close.
I was referring to the legal issues with Square-Enix. It's more of a trademark than a copyright problem.
You can have a character named Mario. But if you make that character a short Italian plumber who rescues princesses, then you are getting into legal issues.
You can have a character named a red mage. But if that class combines attack and healing spells while being ok at weapons, then you are getting into legal issues.
Just to keep the conversation moving, this is the level 1 abilities that I grant to Fighters in my personal "unchained" remake of the class.
At first level, every day the Fighter can spend one hour in meditative training. When they do so they can choose to learn a new combat feat in place of a combat feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the combat feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. Additionally, the old feat cannot be an Effortless Feat (one that the Fighter obtained from their Effortless Training Class Feature). A fighter can only change one feat each day in this manner.
Adrenaline Surge (Ex):
At 1st level, a Fighter learns that movement is life upon a battlefield. As a free action a Fighter can take an additional move action during their turn. When they take this additional move action the Fighter becomes fatigued at the beginning of their next turn for 2 rounds. If the Fighter is already fatigued, they become Exhausted instead for 2 rounds. An Exhausted fighter may not use Adrenaline Surge, and a Fighter may not use Adrenaline Surge two rounds in a row.
The Fighter may not use Adrenaline Surge to attempt a skill check unless the skill is a Fighter Class Skill and would only take a move action to complete. The fighter may not combine the additional move action from this ability with their normal standard action in order to take a full round/one round action.
Go For the Eyes (Ex):
At 1st level the Fighter can spend a move action to steady their aim and pick out an exposed soft location, armored seem, or joint that they can strike. The next attack the fighter attempts until the end of their next turn targets touch AC. When using this ability with a Ranged attack the target must be within the first range increment.
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^Sounds nice, but where should I be looking for Effortless Training (must be another Fighter Unchained addition)?
^Sounds nice, but where should I be looking for Effortless Training (must be another Fighter Unchained addition)?
Yeah, its a work in progress. I have chassis done pending testing but I haven't developed the talents yet. Its kinda hard to think up cool things that are fighter specific that don't lean into all the stuff more associated with Rangers, Barbarians, Knights (Cav/Samurai), Rogues, Monks, Paladins, and the like. So I ended up thinking of a more "Career Soldier" kind of fellow. I'm sure at least something here could be wildly broken, but its not like everything Paizo has released as a 1st party thing has been perfectly balanced. So yeah, much testing required and I need to write out like 30 talents when I get the time and creative energy.
Starting at 2nd level, a Fighter’s talent for rapidly learning new abilities grants them intuitive understanding of any advanced ability they could learn. Whenever a Fighter gains a Fighter Level and meets all the qualifications for certain feats, they learn them automatically without needing to select those feats manually. Mark these feats as Effortless Feats on their character sheet. The Fighter must meet all prerequisites for the feat to learn it in this manner without the assistance of spells or abilities, only permanent magical items with a constant effect (such as a Belt of Strength) may assist a Fighter in meeting these qualifications.
The Feats the Fighter may learn through Effortless Training include all combat feats with “Improved” and “Greater” in their names. This means Fighters automatically gain Improved Initiative and Improved Unarmed Strike as bonus feats at level 2.
Armor Training (Ex):
Starting at 2rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –5 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +5 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 6th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
FIghter’s Techniques (Ex):
As a Fighter gains experience, they perfect a series of advanced techniques to represent their experience and mastery of combat feats. Starting at 2nd level, a Fighter gains one Fighter Technique. They gain an additional Fighter Technique for every 2 levels of Fighter attained after 2nd level. Fighters may only select techniques for which they meet all the prerequisites. A Fighter cannot select an individual technique more than once unless otherwise specified. The saving throws of Fighter talents are 10 + ½ their Fighter level + Constitution Modifier.
Fighter’s Stamina (Ex):
At 3th level a Fighter knows how to push themselves beyond their physical limits. As long as the Fighter got 8 hours of sleep (or the equivalent amount of rest from magical sources) they can spend a swift action to remove the Fatigued condition from themselves. Additionally, as long as the Fighter could use Fighter’s Stamina they no longer take non-lethal damage from Hustling or Forced Marches.
Weapon Training (Ex):
Starting at 4th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.
Every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th), the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each.
Additionally whenever the Fighter gains a feat that requires selecting a single weapon, and they choose a weapon from within their chosen weapon group, then the Fighter is treated as having the selected feats for all the weapons in the associated weapon group that are legal choices for those feats. The fighter is also considered to have those feats with these weapons for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
Relentless Assault
At 5th level, a Fighter learns to go the extra ten percent above and beyond their foes. As a free action a Fighter can take an additional standard action during their turn. When they take this additional standard action the Fighter becomes staggered at the beginning of their next turn for 1 round. If the Fighter is already staggered, they become dazed instead for 1 round. The Fighter cannot use Relentless Assault two turns in a row.
Unlike a normal standard action, there are restrictions on the types of actions a Fighter can take with the standard action granted by this ability. The Fighter may not use this additional standard action to cast spells, activate the class abilities of other classes, or attempt skill checks unless the skill in question is a Fighter Class Skill that takes a standard action to complete. Fighters with racial spell-like abilities may still cast those spells with the additional standard action. Additionally, the fighter may not combine this additional standard action with their normal move action or with Adrenaline Rush in order to take a full round/one round action.
Enhanced Stamina (Ex):
At 7th level a Fighter’s physical limits are only a matter of their determination. As long as the Fighter got 8 hours of sleep (or the equivalent amount of rest from magical sources) and are not at exactly 0 HP they can spend a swift action to remove the Staggered condition from themselves. Additionally, as long as the Fighter could use Enhanced Stamina they are immune to disease and the sickened condition.
The Secrets of Steel
At 9th level a Fighter has learned how to channel a magical weapon or armor’s potential into different aspects. Each day while spending an hour in meditative training, the Fighter can freely redistribute the enhancements and properties of any magical weapon, armor, shield, or piece of ammunition they possess for 24 hours. For example, a Fighter could alter the properties of a +2 Shocking Keen Scimitar into a +4 Scimitar, or a +2 Flaming Fey Bane Scimitar. The magical item must retain at least +1 to its Enhancement bonus and a Fighter cannot ever move Enhancements from one item to another. The Fighter may meditate on both Intensive Training and The Secrets of Steel at the same time. Any item modified by The Secrets of Steel only retains its new properties while wielded by the Fighter. If the Fighter is disarmed or otherwise drops the weapon it reverts to its original enhancements and properties; but, it regains the newly selected ones from The Secrets of Steel if the Fighter picks it back up.
Bonafide Veteran
At 11th level a Fighter has seen it all, and then some. The Fighter becomes immune to fear effects and can spend a swift action rallying their allies. This grants them the same benefits as if the Fighter had cast “Remove Fear” on all allied characters within 30 ft using their Fighter level as their caster level.
Exploit Weakness
At 13th level a Fighter understands how to exploit the strange way time seems to stretch during combat. Whenever a Fighter uses Go For the Eyes they can spend a standard action to extend the benefits to all attacks they make until the beginning of their next turn. When they do this, they become fatigued for 2 rounds at the beginning of their next turn. If the Fighter is already fatigued they become Exhausted instead for 2 rounds. If the Fighter used Adrenaline Surge in the same round as Exploit Weakness they automatically become Exhausted at the beginning of their next turn for 2 rounds.
Endless Stamina (Ex):
At 15th level, a Fighter can push themselves even further beyond mortal limits. As long as the Fighter got 8 hours of sleep (or the equivalent amount of rest from magical sources) they can spend a swift action to remove the Exhausted condition from themselves. The Fighter becomes immune to nonlethal damage from environmental or magical sources and additionally, as long as they are wearing armor, becomes immune to nonlethal damage from weapon attacks.
Invoke the Deeper Secrets
At 17th level any number of times during a day the Fighter can spend a full round action to redistribute the properties and enhancements on any number of magical weapons, armor, shields, or ammunition they possess as if they had spent an hour using The Secrets of Steel.
No Time to Bleed
At 19th level a Fighter can throw their body completely into the fight response to stave off their bodily responses. A Fighter becomes immune to bleed damage (including Ability Bleed) and the nauseated condition. Additionally they can spend a standard action rallying their allies, this grants them the same benefits as if the Fighter had cast “Remove Sickness” on all allied characters within 30 ft using their Fighter level as their caster level.
Storm of Fire and Steel (Ex):
At 20th level, a Fighter may combine both Relentless Assault and Adrenaline Surge together in order to destroy their foes in a flurry of impossibly fast strikes. While using both Relentless Assault and Adrenaline Surge in the same turn, the Fighter may choose to combine the move action granted by Relentless Assault and the Standard granted by Adrenaline Surge to take any full round or one round action as a free action during their turn (except to cast spells, activate the class abilities of other classes, or attempt skill checks unless the skill in question is a Fighter Class Skill that takes a full round or one round action to complete). Fighters with racial spell-like abilities may still cast those spells with the additional full round action. The Fighter still suffers the usual side effects for using Relentless Assault and Adrenaline Surge.
Fighters can already fight. They don't need much, or maybe even any, help in fighting. They need help with things that aren't fighting. Start with skill points, some way to bolster will saves and something to help them move about at high levels where full attacks become properly important.
I understand the idea behind a good portion of it. But all of it together is the equivalent of just giving fighters everything and the kitchen sink. Not even casters can do absolutely everything.
Yeah, casters can only: turn their skin to stone, heal wounds, create clouds of gas that are literal war crimes, call upon divine entities to answer the questions or fight for them, travel fast distances in mere moments, pull information from thin air, read people's thoughts, mind control people, call down fire and lightning from the sky, create images that aren't there, imitate other spells with shadows, overload people's senses with flashing lights, raise the dead, transform lead into gold, and become giant terrible monsters through polymorph.
Magic is useful both inside of combat, during travel, during exploration, and is capable of massively boosting skill checks to the point where someone with magic will do better than someone without magic at whatever they are attempting to accomplish. Yes, magic has limits. Prepared spellcasters need to know what is going on ahead of time (mostly) and spontaneous spellcasters are limited because they need to select general spells rather than specific ones; and both are limited by their spell slots. However, its not like every caster has opposition schools either. Wizards have to pick two schools to be worse at, but Arcanists, Witches, Shamans, Druids, and Clerics are all 9th level prepared spellcasters who can literally do absolutely everything. Shaman's whole class identity is "jack of all trades". Spontaneous spellcasters need to focus a little bit more, but can freely pick from their tool box as the day goes by and aren't punished for grabbing spells outside their area of focus. The battlefield controller Sorcerer can still pick up Fly, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and their black tentacles and dazing fireballs don't become less potent as a result.
So I don't personally mind when my players without spellcasting get to do cool things despite their lack of magic. Because whatever cool stuff I give them is still less likely to matter than the Stinking Cloud that gets thrown on turn 1 of the fight and results in failed saving throws. So, call it free stuff if you like, I call it class features. Classes get more of those when they can't snap their fingers and violate all the laws of thermodynamics at the same time.
That first paragraph was a little petty of me, but I hope it gets the point across. Having 6-9 levels of spell slots is dramatically more powerful than anything a martial character can hope to accomplish. The ideal solution to martial/caster disparity would be to give martial classes some manner of magical-like actions of their own but the whole point of martial classes in these fantasy type games is that some people don't want to be casting fireballs and raising the dead. Some people just want to be a soldier, so might as well let them be a cool soldier.
And, to restate, this needs playtested and probably nerfed several times. My Gunslinger rework is in the middle of playtesting and I've already learned a few painful lessons from that.
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One thing it does that would need smoothing out is give huge power jumps at certain levels, while others progress rather slowly.
Something in between this and the Pathfinder 1st Edition standard Fighter would be in order.
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All martial classes that do not have any spell casting should have 6+Int skill points.
Fighters should have Perception as a class skill.
Fighters should get a bonus to their will saves that is doubled vs fear effects.
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at a feat per weapon proficiency martial classes are way overpowered.
unchain them so they pick up 1 martial proficiency per level...
with a golf bag of weapons when do they have time for skills? Caddy, toss me a +3 disruptive shotel with the beer helmet for this dessert wraith!
stop the abuse of the front loaded every weapon class!
;^)
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The point of Pathfinder Unchained was to fix things that were so bad they needed a complete rework of the class. The core rogue was so bad that when someone would ask for advice on the forums the overwhelming answer was to play something else. The Monk was not quite as bad, but it was still a struggle to create a viable character. Flurry of Blows was called Flurry of misses. The barbarian problem was that too often a barbarian ended up dead after winning a fight. The summoner was in all honesty too powerful so was intentional nerfed to bring it more in line with other classes.
Pathfinder Unchained was not designed to fix every minor issue with the classes. In a lot of cases these issues were addressed in other books, often it was a feat or something similar. Armed Bravery takes care of a fighter weak will save. The feat Cunning from Villain Codex can give you an extra skill point per level. You can use traits to get nearly any skill as a class skill. The weapon and armor mastery books give fighters a lot of options to make them unique.
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--I have rage as a mechanic that gives me more decisions. I like making decisions.
I concur with everything in this post. But especially with this line in particular. If your class doesn't let you say "I use/cast/activate X" with a class feature its not a good class. Phrases like "I rage", "I sneak attack", "I flurry of blows", "I smite evil", "I cast fireball" are all iconic player moments that feel really good. They're decision points and making decisions is fun. The core fighter does not have a single class feature that you as the player interact with on a moment to moment basis. Its all static numeric increases.
WMH and AMH both helped out with this a little bit, but without advanced weapon/armor training (and even with most of them, honestly nearly all of them are just more numeric bonuses) you don't ever decide to use a class feature as a fighter. They're just all on all the time. Sure big numbers are fun, but you can get bigger numbers by raging or smiting or sneak attacking. So all core Fighter has going for it is extremely consistent above average statistics which is...not especially exciting.
Active/Reactive class abilities >>>>>> Passive Numeric Bonuses
PS: Yeah, Bloodrager is a great martial class, especially for beginners. Rage + Bloodline + Spells + Actual Class Skills is a wonderful combination to make your player feel impactful.
If your class doesn't let you say "I use/cast/activate X" with a class feature its not a good class.
That's just your opinion man. But more seriously, the game is a diverse audience. And some of that audience needs a "simpler" option. There needs to be a class that just works without having to fiddle with doodads. Fighter is mostly that class. Just because the class isn't fun for you doesn't mean that it isn't serving a purpose for other people.
I refer you to the following which I also agree with.
Also, stop treating fighters as a class for beginners. They are one of the hardest things to build properly, selecting the correct feats requires a considerable degree of system mastery.
Its cool that people enjoy the current Fighter and that you can even build them to be effective. But simple does not mean easy, or good.
Honestly, I have a homebrew class that is much simpler than the fighter. Because there should be a simpler class. But comparing existing class to class, fighter is about the simplest, with some of its archetypes being even simpler.
The point of Pathfinder Unchained was to fix things that were so bad they needed a complete rework of the class. {. . .}
I wouldn't call the Pathfinder Unchained classes complete reworks -- they are still extremely recognizable as derived from their originals, even if you're not paying attention to the class name or flavor text when you read the Unchained class description.
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The eidolon was pretty close to reworked. So reworked that parts of it didn’t make sense and led to issues with later additions.
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The point of Pathfinder Unchained was to fix things that were so bad they needed a complete rework of the class. {. . .}I wouldn't call the Pathfinder Unchained classes complete reworks
I think this is just semantics. Would "revise" work better? "Reshape?" "Revamp?" I think Mysterious Stranger's point still stands.
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Just because something is obviously derived from something does not mean it was not reworked. The pathfinder rouge is obviously derived from the 1st edition AD&D thief.
Rewritten would have been a better term.