Feats You Think Are Awesome!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Dragon78 wrote:
Does anyone use story feats?

I thought about listing a few, but thought they may be too niche.


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Dragon78 wrote:
Does anyone use story feats?

I hand them out as rewards for risky roleplay. A PC challenging a bunch of high CR enemies into single combat and winning gets the appropriate feat for free.


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I gave them out at the start of a campaign for free for all the pcs based on their backgrounds. :)

Silver Crusade

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It's the cheesiest, but Nature Soul into Animal Ally with Boon Companion while taking the Small Cat option. With an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist, the damage from it's claw/claw/bite/trip is close to scaling with a 3/4 martial.

But with Boon Companion or a class that grants the Small Cat as an option, it's been ruled that even in PFS the Animal Companion can advance beyond your character level up to the point that it's Hit Die exceeds your character level by 1. At 7th level you then have the fluffiest, fiercest full fledged front liner.


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I had an oracle of life get that "heal 1000 hp but deduct al ldamage you do from that" story feat. was fun and potent
---------------

That force bullet feat line is one of my favorites. Particulary if you can swing it on a class with implements. just drips flavor. and moderatelly useful.


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Oli Ironbar wrote:

It's the cheesiest, but Nature Soul into Animal Ally with Boon Companion while taking the Small Cat option. With an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist, the damage from it's claw/claw/bite/trip is close to scaling with a 3/4 martial.

But with Boon Companion or a class that grants the Small Cat as an option, it's been ruled that even in PFS the Animal Companion can advance beyond your character level up to the point that it's Hit Die exceeds your character level by 1. At 7th level you then have the fluffiest, fiercest full fledged front liner.

Somebody must really hate Commoners . . . .

* * * * * * * *

Story Feats: I had built a Wizard for Rise of the Runelords with the Accursed Story Feat reskinned for a Vampiric instead of Fiendish curse. If you fulfill this Story Feat specifications, the Spell Resistance that it gives you not only grows, but also lets through Harmless spells. I don't think that's the only Spell Resistance that lets through harmless spells without your needing to spend an action, but I can't think of another example off the top of my head. (And yes, I know that build has a mistake in it -- not supposed to be able to combine Thassilonian Specialist with an Arcane Subschool, since they are both archetypes in all but name, and both modify Arcane School.) Never got to play him, although he was adapted for a Rise of the Runelords Campaign that lasted an amazingly short time.


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Oli Ironbar wrote:

It's the cheesiest, but Nature Soul into Animal Ally with Boon Companion while taking the Small Cat option. With an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist, the damage from it's claw/claw/bite/trip is close to scaling with a 3/4 martial.

But with Boon Companion or a class that grants the Small Cat as an option, it's been ruled that even in PFS the Animal Companion can advance beyond your character level up to the point that it's Hit Die exceeds your character level by 1. At 7th level you then have the fluffiest, fiercest full fledged front liner.

can you please link that ruling? (i would really like to find it, i have a ranger with that feat and if it work his companion get a +1 to level)

because as far as i know the feat itself say otherwise:

" The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level..."

unless you somehow can gain a level above your level?!?


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Dragon78 wrote:
Does anyone use story feats?

I like Wily Warrior on Imposter-Wary Human Fighters... 1/day you can use you ranks in Sense Motive in place of your

Enemy Cult, because I like to cults as a GM. And I like anything that helps the party against my shenanigans... that way I do not feel bad for said shenanigans.

Wretched Curator, this might have been mentioned already, but it is a glorious feat. You see, sometimes someone in a cult may want to hide their casting of Evil spells.

Eldritch Researcher... make your own spells and get rewarded for it, need I say more?

Innocent Blood... kill 250 noncombatants and get rewarded for it, need I say more?

Dynasty Founder, because some cults have ambition... and Cult Master Mesmerists already get Leadership for "free".

Concilator, because it's both easier and better than Call Truce with less baggage.


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zza ni wrote:
Oli Ironbar wrote:

It's the cheesiest, but Nature Soul into Animal Ally with Boon Companion while taking the Small Cat option. With an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist, the damage from it's claw/claw/bite/trip is close to scaling with a 3/4 martial.

But with Boon Companion or a class that grants the Small Cat as an option, it's been ruled that even in PFS the Animal Companion can advance beyond your character level up to the point that it's Hit Die exceeds your character level by 1. At 7th level you then have the fluffiest, fiercest full fledged front liner.

can you please link that ruling? (i would really like to find it, i have a ranger with that feat and if it work his companion get a +1 to level)

Well, here's the change that introduced a limit to your companion's effective level. It came in response to the busted "+1/2 Oracle level for one revelation" FCB that was later on changed to just +1/6.

However, this does not change how Boon Companion works since the feat introduces a max cap of Druid Level = Character Level.


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i did a small research on this after reading his post.

seem like back in 2010~ the feat had different words:

"..to a maximum bonus equal to your character level.."

which led people (who totally ignored the 'to a' words) who thought that since it's a bonus it stack no matter what (so you get a bonus of from +4 to maximum your level that add to your druid level).

it was since then changed to it's current wording.

Silver Crusade

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zza ni wrote:
Oli Ironbar wrote:

It's the cheesiest, but Nature Soul into Animal Ally with Boon Companion while taking the Small Cat option. With an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist, the damage from it's claw/claw/bite/trip is close to scaling with a 3/4 martial.

But with Boon Companion or a class that grants the Small Cat as an option, it's been ruled that even in PFS the Animal Companion can advance beyond your character level up to the point that it's Hit Die exceeds your character level by 1. At 7th level you then have the fluffiest, fiercest full fledged front liner.

can you please link that ruling? (i would really like to find it, i have a ranger with that feat and if it work his companion get a +1 to level)

because as far as i know the feat itself say otherwise:

" The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level..."

unless you somehow can gain a level above your level?!?

You caught a mistake I didn't see. You can't directly combine Animal Ally with Boon Companion, but you can combine them through a level in a class that grants an animal companion. The developer post has been noted above which allows the animal companion to advance faster than the PC.

Along the lines of that thread, a judicious reading of Boon Companion states that you must have the animal companion class feature first, which would mean that Boon Companion applies to the first level of Druid, Hunter, or whichever class level you take for the AnC class feature, which can only be taken after you already have a companion from Animal Ally.

An example: Bard 6 with Nature Soul and Animal Ally levels up and is now Bard 6/ Sacred Huntsmaster 1 with an animal companion at level 5 (7 levels -3 from AA +1 from Sacred Huntsmaster). If they choose Boon Companion as a feat, the math is now (7 levels -3) + (1 Sacred Huntsmaster + 4 Boon Companion) and has to be this way because Boon Companion only applies to the class feature that provides the AnC. You are then, through the feat, adding five levels of Sacred Huntsmaster on top of your original build. 

In short, for your effective Druid level you are Bard 6/ Sacred Huntsmaster 5 (minus 3 plus 1 from the actual level that grants an animal companion): , but your character levels are only Bard 6/Sacred Huntsmaster 1. 

The HD limit of PC level + 1 hasn't been exceeded in this example because the effective Druid Level for the companion is 9 and a level 9 companion has only 8 HD, but let's say at level 11 you are Bard 7/ Sacred Huntsmaster 4. Then, your effective Druid level is 16 (11 Character Level -3 + 4 Hunstmaster +4 Boon Companion) but your animal companion has 13 HD, which is one over the limit, so it's actual level can only be 15th because at 15th level it has 12 HD.

Leveling up further, you could go back to Bard (and get Dirge of Doom, my favorite performance when it's done on a bagpipe) and your effective Druid level and animal companion level would be back within the limits allowed, or you could keep with Sacred Huntsmaster and pick up the class features there with a continuing drop in the value of the Boon Companion feat -- which now that I think about it I should totally retrain out of and replace with Favored Animal Focus.

On the other hand, there is a clear and valid reasoning against cheese like this that could never be implemented through a rules clarification because it would override so many other clarifications that have been made:  Best Wall of Text Ever.

I lean towards the spirit of this and would gladly accept a GM's ruling that stacking so many animal companion levels beyond what a Druid could do is against the spirit of the game and takes away from the fun. On the other other hand, if a GM ever says 'bring it' Kitty is coming along for the ride!

Silver Crusade

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Somebody must really hate Commoners . . . .

To riff on Bruce Lee, I don't hate commoners, my claws hate commoners.

Inside joke about cats and commoners.


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zza ni wrote:

seem like back in 2010~ the feat had different words:

"..to a maximum bonus equal to your character level.."

which led people (who totally ignored the 'to a' words) who thought that since it's a bonus it stack no matter what (so you get a bonus of from +4 to maximum your level that add to your druid level).

It has nothing to do with ignoring stuff, RAW that version (from Seeker of Secrets) increases EDL by either four or your character level, whichever is lower, with no limit to the total EDL. The fault lies solely with the author because of his blatant misuse of the word "bonus".

Oli Ironbar wrote:
It's the cheesiest, but Nature Soul into Animal Ally with Boon Companion

RAW, Animal Ally does not let you qualify for Boon Companion, and indeed you can never qualify for both at the same time. The second sentence of Animal Ally also can't ever work RAW - which is kinda a good thing, because otherwise it would let e.g. a 10th level Druid with Animal Ally have a 17th level animal companion.


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Oli et al who like the multiclass cheese of exploiting Animal Ally and Boon Companion... why? Like, a Cohort can't ever be more than 2 levels lower than a PC, Eidolons and Familiars don't have this kind of potential, WHY would we think that Animal Companions should be this powerful?


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Oli et al who like the multiclass cheese of exploiting Animal Ally and Boon Companion... why? Like, a Cohort can't ever be more than 2 levels lower than a PC, Eidolons and Familiars don't have this kind of potential, WHY would we think that Animal Companions should be this powerful?

My thoughts, exactly.


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Oli et al who like the multiclass cheese of exploiting Animal Ally and Boon Companion... why? Like, a Cohort can't ever be more than 2 levels lower than a PC, Eidolons and Familiars don't have this kind of potential, WHY would we think that Animal Companions should be this powerful?

Sounds like you didn't follow the previously linked post. It is explicitly allowed for a 12th level character to have a companion with an effective druid level of 16.

The Boon Companion shenanigans wouldn't work though.


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A 12th level PC with a 16th level AC...? Who cares? The player with the companion already is likely out of balance with the other players without companions... if for nothing more than the time their turn takes. Lol. It doesn't really change that much, in my opinion.

Anyways, special shout out to all of the Divine Fighting Technique feats that have optional replacement options that allow the feat to be taken in place of specific class features. That is neat.


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I've always been a sucker for underdog PCs, builds that don't optimize the obvious or even "best" class abilities. Currently I'm trying to wrap my head around Energy Channel. In the process I came across Guided Hand.

I like this feat, but not because it's the most optimal option. When thinking about Energy Channel I thought about clerics and being Small size. Guided Hand means that your cleric could focus slightly harder on their Wis and ignore the fact that their Str is probably less than ideal. I wish there wasn't the Channel Smite prereq but I think there's a way to get that while still being Cleric.

Anyway, this kind of brings me back to the question as to why you NEED a L16 AC on your Character L12 PC. I like those underdogs; PCs that do more with sub-optimal builds. It feels, I don't know... wrong somehow to build a PC that could seriously compete in the DPR Olympics or whatever. I'm not saying this is wrong, lots of folks like playing this way and that's cool.

I'd just ask my own players at my tables, do you NEED it for your character to be successful in a campaign?


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
I'd just ask my own players at my tables, do you NEED it for your character to be successful in a campaign?

I often ask my players a similar question, and often tell them afterwards that all they NEED to be successful in a campaign is often already provided to them in their character class. Feats are just there to help you add a bit of versatility to your character and help offset some of the inherent randomness that relying on rolling dice brings into the game.

And I often point to one of my most recent characters that is quite capable of holding his own in combat and has only just recently (level 11) taken his first combat feat (Pummeling Style). The character is a venerable aasimar barbarian that started gameplay with (modified) stats of Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 16. He had an armor class of 10, no armor, used a quarterstaff and didn't (couldn't) rage effectively because I self-limited his use of the ability to dire situations. His first level was that of a wizard with 12 HP and UMD cause he didnt even have cantrips. I spent his traits on magic related things, and his first feat on Additional Traits. Now, he is level 12 and a freaking, absolute monster in combat. He still attempts to avoid as many fights as he can by talking his way out of them but ... sometimes the young only understand power and pain.

I suppose that's just a long way to say this: Feats are not as important as people think that they need to scrimp and save and get the perfect one. Not for any kind of 'average' game that keeps within the expectations of the CR system.


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
I've always been a sucker for underdog PCs, builds that don't optimize the obvious or even "best" class abilities.

Then make a literal underdog build by boosting what's normally an awful companion choice by a couple effective druid levels. A 16th level Dog is still worse than a 12th level Tiger.

It's not a big deal even if you choose a good companion to boost since companions have awful scaling at later levels, and most of their power comes from player wealth and class abilities. If you play below 10th level you'd likely not even notice the difference since you can only increase your companion's effective level by one for every three levels it already had.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Currently I'm trying to wrap my head around Energy Channel.

I'd try a lancer. You add slightly more damage than your level, like an elemental challenge, and by charging you make full use of it only lasting for three attacks.

Silver Crusade

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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Oli et al

Who's Al and what is he doing in this thread? :-p

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
who like the multiclass cheese of exploiting Animal Ally and Boon Companion... why? Like, a Cohort can't ever be more than 2 levels lower than a PC, Eidolons and Familiars don't have this kind of potential, WHY would we think that Animal Companions should be this powerful?

For the first why, in my area we are chronically short on GM's so I will run way more than I play when I can make it to the gameshop, and I make it to the gameshop much less than I'd like to, so it ends up being months between when I can a play a given character or years for the higher level ones. In between, the downtime spent looking at what I can do next level just incubates some crazy ideas. Some work, some don't, and when I play the ones that work, I prefer when I can play them out of tier in a high tier game.

For the second 'WHY', there are some crazy cool things that can be done all over the place if the right pair of abilities, items, or feats are brought together and more to be discovered still! But PF1 isn't a bound accuracy system, and I do think the onus should then fall on the player to say to the table and to the GM, 'hey, I have a crazy idea I would like to try out' and see if a consensus can be formed before the player brings that character to the table.

Dark Archive

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Wonderstell wrote:
Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Oli et al who like the multiclass cheese of exploiting Animal Ally and Boon Companion... why? Like, a Cohort can't ever be more than 2 levels lower than a PC, Eidolons and Familiars don't have this kind of potential, WHY would we think that Animal Companions should be this powerful?

Sounds like you didn't follow the previously linked post. It is explicitly allowed for a 12th level character to have a companion with an effective druid level of 16.

The Boon Companion shenanigans wouldn't work though.

actually it was much worse. in theory you could have a 22nd level companion by 10th if you went full cheese IIRC

ye olde pre-errata times

Name Violation wrote:

aasimar, scion of humanity, oracle of nature (any archetype works, but you need the 7th level revelation for the Bonded mount)

feats:
racial heritage (half elf)
skill focus (Any know)
nature soul
animal ally
eldritch heritage (arcane bloodline)

spells: paragon surge

take favored class bonus for oracle for +1/2 level for the revelation bonded mount, but dont take bonded mount ability until 7th

you now have a mount who's level is (level+ 1/2 level)+ (level-3)

19th level companion at 9th

or 22nd level at 10th

paragon surge spell to get improved eldritch heritage feat, or extra spell feat for oracle

Congrats, you know have an epic level mount, and can cast any cleric/oracle and wizard/sorcerer spell in the book of a level you are capable of casting

you could also take the huntmaster feat to add 1 more level to the companion, but its not REALLY worth it.

celestial companion feat is nice to pick up at 11th


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VoodistMonk wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
Does anyone use story feats?

I like Wily Warrior on Imposter-Wary Human Fighters... 1/day you can use you ranks in Sense Motive in place of your

Enemy Cult, because I like to cults as a GM. And I like anything that helps the party against my shenanigans... that way I do not feel bad for said shenanigans.

Wretched Curator, this might have been mentioned already, but it is a glorious feat. You see, sometimes someone in a cult may want to hide their casting of Evil spells.

Eldritch Researcher... make your own spells and get rewarded for it, need I say more?

Innocent Blood... kill 250 noncombatants and get rewarded for it, need I say more?

Dynasty Founder, because some cults have ambition... and Cult Master Mesmerists already get Leadership for "free".

Concilator, because it's both easier and better than Call Truce with less baggage.

Whatever happened to the backgrounds that some of these feats reference? I could have sworn that at one time www.d20pfsrd.com had a page of them (also including Fiend-Raised or something like that), but now neither it nor Archives of Nethys have these (not even on the www.d20pfsrd.com Character Backgrounds page.


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They might be in the alternate rules section(s)... like where you find rules for corruptions, and $#!+ like that. I seem to remember having to look somewhere weird for a specific campaign a dude was running... I think we had to have backgrounds that were pulled from somewhere different. I will have to dig deeper when I have the time.

D20PFSRD may have them under a different name, as well. I found the feats on AoN, though. So I would search AoN for the backgrounds first...


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trait and flaws where present first in modern game, then in iron claw game, D&D adopt the traits and flaws in the Uneartheg arcana


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creature whit claws, hunter whit the natural group list (aspect of the beast feat and select claws) + feral combat training + brawler or monk and you create Wolvering


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VoodistMonk wrote:

They might be in the alternate rules section(s)... like where you find rules for corruptions, and $#!+ like that. I seem to remember having to look somewhere weird for a specific campaign a dude was running... I think we had to have backgrounds that were pulled from somewhere different. I will have to dig deeper when I have the time.

D20PFSRD may have them under a different name, as well. I found the feats on AoN, though. So I would search AoN for the backgrounds first...

Searching for them on Archives of Nethys (as well as on www.d20pfsrd.com) just leads back to the feat that references them.


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Try the archives of nethys legacy site, the background stuff in ult campaign looks like what you are after.


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I will look at the legacy site. Thank you.

Nature Magic... because having Know Direction as a constant SLA is fun in the right type of campaign, and the ability to choose a 1/day SLA on top of that is cool, too.

Has Endurance been brought up? Sleeping in your armor can be clutch.

And I know I have listed several racial feats, but I want to give a special shout-out the Kobold's Merciless Magic and Merciless Precision feats... especially used together on an Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Scoundrel type of build.


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Acadamae graduate is great for conjurer wizards, the action economy boost as well as not being vulnerable to concentration checks for an entire round? Yes please.

Improved critical for Paladins specifically, because Bless Weapon is not compatible with a keen weapon.

Raging Vitality will save a ragers life.


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Found (Legacy) Background Generator, which is the source of some of the Story Feats and has some of the backgrounds (such as Fiend Raised and Cursed Birth) but not others (such as Military Strategist, which Wily Warrior is tied to and comes from the Spymaster's Handbook, which appears not to be on the Legacy Archives of Nethys site; the regular Archives of Nethys has the feats but not the associated backgrounds).


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If you build for it the Bullseye Shot feat combined with Vital Strike is a good combination that sadly never got more support.

But if want some a little cheesy with Gunslinger.
Combat Stamina + Bullseye Shot (Swift Action) + Dead Shot

Spend 5 Stamina and a Swift Action to add +4 to all the attacks that you roll for Dead Shot...you pretty much cant miss even with penalties.


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Java Man wrote:
Acadamae graduate is great for conjurer wizards, the action economy boost as well as not being vulnerable to concentration checks for an entire round? Yes please.

WTF is a "local feat"? Lol. Very cool, I will start handing these out as bonus feats during character creation based on characters' backgrounds and regoinal/social traits. How fun.

Acadamae Graduate is perfect for Industrious Urbanite Elves that pick Spell Focus Conjuration. Is says to reduce the casting time by one round, but I am sure they mean one step. It's a 3.5e feat, but I would allow it... probably drop the "specialist Wizard" prerequisite, too. Still requires prepared arcane Conjuration spells, though... so Sorcerers will still have to VMC Cleric for Aura/Sacred Summons in order to standard action summon. Cool feat... love anything that breaks action economy.


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BlackfiRe Summoning
You have learned to make your summons destructive to
the fabric of the planes, bringing blackfire in the wake
of your magic.
Prerequisite: Sacred SummonsUM.
Benefits: When you summon a single evil outsider, it
appears in a flash of blackfire, harming all adjacent nonevil
creatures. This deals an amount of damage equal to twice
the CR of the summoned creature. An affected creature can
attempt a Will save (DC = the DC of the spell used to summon
the creature) to halve this damage. A spell augmented with
blackfire summoning uses up a spell slot 1 level higher than
the spell’s actual level. If you have the blackfire pact class
feature (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige 13), you
can apply the benefits of this feat to summoned outsiders of the type or types you have selected for your blackfire pact
without raising the spell’s effective level.

this feat its so cool and you dont need to roll any dice dmg (the bad part its dont affect evil creature (and most of any campain 60%-80% are evil)


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Zepheri wrote:

BlackfiRe Summoning

You have learned to make your summons destructive to
the fabric of the planes, bringing blackfire in the wake
of your magic.
Prerequisite: Sacred SummonsUM.
Benefits: When you summon a single evil outsider, it
appears in a flash of blackfire, harming all adjacent nonevil
creatures. This deals an amount of damage equal to twice
the CR of the summoned creature. An affected creature can
attempt a Will save (DC = the DC of the spell used to summon
the creature) to halve this damage. A spell augmented with
blackfire summoning uses up a spell slot 1 level higher than
the spell’s actual level. If you have the blackfire pact class
feature (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige 13), you
can apply the benefits of this feat to summoned outsiders of the type or types you have selected for your blackfire pact
without raising the spell’s effective level.

this feat its so cool and you dont need to roll any dice dmg (the bad part its dont affect evil creature (and most of any campain 60%-80% are evil)

The good news is that 60%-80% of PC's are nonevil, so this feat can be used AGAINST the party all willy-nilly.


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Magus Black wrote:

If you build for it the Bullseye Shot feat combined with Vital Strike is a good combination that sadly never got more support.

But if want some a little cheesy with Gunslinger.
Combat Stamina + Bullseye Shot (Swift Action) + Dead Shot

Spend 5 Stamina and a Swift Action to add +4 to all the attacks that you roll for Dead Shot...you pretty much cant miss even with penalties.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding these feats, but Combat Stamina lets you spend up to 5 Stamina Points to get a Competence Bonus equal to the number of points you spent on any attack as part of the same action, whereas the Swift Action option of Bullseye Shot lets spend a Swift Action and 5 Stamina Points to get a bonus of +4 -- the latter seems strictly worse EXCEPT when you are already working under a Competence Bonus, in which case paying a 20% tax to convert your bonus to an untyped bonus (so that it will stack) seems reasonable.


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I personally love the damnation feat chain from a pure RP standpoint. I made a ghost rider esqe character gaining all 4 with an intimidation build. Being able to jump from demoralized to scared right away is fun (but can get abused easily)


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I really like Aura Flare feat but I'm deeply upset it is once per day and not like once per combat/once per hour or something. High level cleric being able to stagger everything within 30ft for doing their big cleric thing is good and fun.


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McDaygo wrote:
I personally love the damnation feat chain from a pure RP standpoint. I made a ghost rider esqe character gaining all 4 with an intimidation build. Being able to jump from demoralized to scared right away is fun (but can get abused easily)

I love the Damnation feats, as well.

I like Mask of Virtue with Wretched Curator when trying to hide my Evil.

I like Maleficium on Champion of Darkness Drow to really push Evil spells over the top.

I like Soulless Gaze with Dazzling Display... anyone that can get creative with Intimidate like Order of the Cockatrice/Braggart Cavaliers (or from VMC Cavalier), Negotiator or Ringleader[AG] Bards, Thug Rogues, or Viking Fighters. Goes great with the spell Bloody Tears & Jagged Smile.

I like Fiendskin for races with resistances because you can pick and choose to fill out your defenses. And/or classes/Bloodlines that offer resistances and you want to collect them all.

I have a Changeling Hag-Riven Bloodrager with the Hag Bloodline, and all four Damnation feats. Absolutely love her, too.


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So many feats, so little time...and feat slots.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

...Correct me if I am misunderstanding these feats, but Combat Stamina lets you spend up to 5 Stamina Points to get a Competence Bonus equal to the number of points you spent on any attack as part of the same action, whereas the Swift Action option of Bullseye Shot lets spend a Swift Action and 5 Stamina Points to get a bonus of +4 -- the latter seems strictly worse EXCEPT when you are already working under a Competence Bonus, in which case paying a 20% tax to convert your bonus to an untyped bonus (so that it will stack) seems reasonable.

This is one major problem with the Stamina rules. The default use (as noted above) is so much better than most of the alternatives that they may as well not exist. A few are OK, but in 95% of cases it's just best to take the default plusses to hit. And as fighters can hit quite well anyway, giving them Stamina for free is solving a non-problem. And the general concept of fighters getting more out of their combat feats sounds good, until you note that it's non-combat where they have issues.

[edited for clarity]


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^I like the idea of Stamina, but the implementation suffers from several serious flaws(*), and needs a rebuild.

(*)Including the weird effect that you can hose yourself worse than having no Stamina at all by running out of Stamina (and once you have it you'll run out pretty quickly if you use it much).


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Mudfoot wrote:
few are OK, but in 95% of cases it's just best to take the default plusses to hit.
    Sad truth. Most just grant numerical bonuses, and that's literally the one thing that martial's don't lack in combat.
    The only feats where the added effect from using Combat Stamina is a notable change are Combat Expertise et al.'s "ignore the Int 13 prereq", and a couple feats where the action economy changes: Barroom Brawler, Bullying Blow, and especially Pummeling Style. Maybe Arcane Armor Training/Mastery and Arcane Strike, too.


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^Looks like gaining the option to spend Stamina on Arcane Armor Training/Mastery changes them from bad to okay.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Looks like gaining the option to spend Stamina on Arcane Armor Training/Mastery changes them from bad to okay.

Combat Stamina may have just made Child of War Fighter playable... not great, by any means, but possibly playable.


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VoodistMonk wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Looks like gaining the option to spend Stamina on Arcane Armor Training/Mastery changes them from bad to okay.

Combat Stamina may have just made Child of War Fighter playable... not great, by any means, but possibly playable.

Correction:

Not even Combat Stamina can help Child of War... I was mistaken in thinking that Child of War's Eldritch Armor Training expanded upon the Arcane Armor Training feat... it is the other way around. Without house rules, Combat Stamina would have no interaction with Eldritch Armor Training, whatsoever.

That being said, I am adding to my house rules that Combat Stamina has the same effect on the Child of War's Eldritch Armor Training as it does Arcane Armor Training... in that spending a point of Stamina reduces activating it to a free action, rather than a swift action.

I might have to give Combat Stamina a closer look, as its special options pop up quite often in other feats. I like options. And Combat Stamina literally makes Arcane Armor Training usable.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Magus Black wrote:

If you build for it the Bullseye Shot feat combined with Vital Strike is a good combination that sadly never got more support.

But if want some a little cheesy with Gunslinger.
Combat Stamina + Bullseye Shot (Swift Action) + Dead Shot

Spend 5 Stamina and a Swift Action to add +4 to all the attacks that you roll for Dead Shot...you pretty much cant miss even with penalties.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding these feats, but Combat Stamina lets you spend up to 5 Stamina Points to get a Competence Bonus equal to the number of points you spent on any attack as part of the same action, whereas the Swift Action option of Bullseye Shot lets spend a Swift Action and 5 Stamina Points to get a bonus of +4 -- the latter seems strictly worse EXCEPT when you are already working under a Competence Bonus, in which case paying a 20% tax to convert your bonus to an untyped bonus (so that it will stack) seems reasonable.

Ah yes you got me there, the Circumstance Bonus from Stamina was something we had considered so broken-by-default that we banned it from the beginning...and I forgot that's not how it written. Apologies!

As far as the Child of Acavna and Amaznen goes, nothing short of a total remake will EVER fix that blight (Stamina or no).


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^Off-topic, but the best thing to do with Child of Acavna and Amaznen is to pretend that it was a bad dream that didn't really happen, and if you're forced to play one for roleplaying reasons, instead build a Myrmidarch Magus(*) and just let on that you're a Child of Acavna and Amaznen.

(*)Which despite trading out more than it should and being suboptimally put together, is superior in almost every way, and is actually serviceable if not great, even without house rules.

Back on-topic, what Arcane Armor Training + Combat Stamina would do would be to make Hellknight Signifer more attractive for entry from an arcane spellcasting 9/9 base class (still bad for a 6/9 base class, but that's a problem with spellcasting prestige classes more generally).


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Related topic, whats the least bad prestige class?
Furious Guardian for Bloodragers who arent primalists and want to auto rage at start of combat?


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least bad prestige class? as in, any good?

exalted of a god with the magic domain, divine sub domain (Nethys or Asmodeius for example), can get free miracle & resurrection and such a day as sla (so no gold\diamond costs etc) ,not including class semi miracle ability.

- had a build for an oracle with dragon mystery, elf with lightbringer elf alt ability and adopted trait by a genie-kin for minor wishcraft, took the dragon magic revolution for limited wish. all in all had unlimited sla for any 0 level spell and 2 limited wish beside the above miracle, resurrection etc.
named him 'Shenron the wish granting dragon...oracle'.

souldrinker can practically craft for free each day, once he is in his 2nd+ level. (Enervation + soul pool + cacodaemon familiar = have fun).

harrower that have the fortunate trait and buy\craft the silent aviary can draw best out of 4 cards each day (and if all fail say command word, go to prison and plane shift out). GM made mine retire after 2 weeks of drawing cards and breaking the game...

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