SaschaVikos's page

you can not use in the same raound abundant steps and quivering palms

Really? well, I'm counting that loss as a win for me then. Screw him.

Since when does drawing a weapon trigger an AoO?

==Aelryinth

I didn't think it did at the time but he swore up and down to me it did so i didn't rules check him. Either way I still saved.

I think the most important thing we all learned was that fighters are incredible damage machines, and that monks, while not necessarily superior in this regard, make up for it in other areas.

What was really eye opening was that we looked over the sheet for the dwarf fighter who started this debate...his feats were something like this at lvl 11:

fleet x2, mobility, spring attack, vital strike, step up, shield focus, one other movement feat I cant remember. He was missing 3 feats.

alrighty...so I fought the monk this weekend. The guy who was supposed to bring the rogue didn't show up. Here are the results.

Fighter vs. Monk:

Round 1. Monk wins initiative, abundant steps to me and quivering palms me. I roll a TWO on my save. Epic. epic fail.

Round 2. I win initiative, full round attack with my bow. I hit with 4 of my 5 attacks (+many shot). Monk's average HP is 125 or thereabouts. Monk dies a horrible, horrible death.

Round 3. Monk wins initiative, abundant steps to me and quivering palms me. I save like a champ. I quick draw my falchion and save against his stunning fist on his AoO because I drew a weapon. First attack garners a 17. Second attack garners a 14. Third attack is a 19....and I stopped rolling.

Why wouldn't an intense crit build be exactly in line with "really dealing damage", out of curiosity?

good point. I think that crit fishing build posted a while ago would be great...plus I just got off the phone with the guy and he claimed he and the rogue could win easy even if we were in a 4' by 4' room.

EDIT: I think the claim would be that I 'won' because of the stunning/staggering effects on the crit rather than the raw damage output, I guess.

awesome advice snipped

Last is a switch hitting archery build. Focus on killing him with arrows. Take the Spec tree, max your arrow damage, make sure to take iMProved Init. If you crit with an arrow, he dies. Take Improved Crit and weapon focus so you can crit with a melee weapon if he wants to full attack you. If you get a full attack off on him with arrows, you might just kill him in the first round.

I really want to show the guy that the fighter can really deal damage. That was his major hang up in the first place. If I break out a really intense crit build or a reach tripper he is going to accuse me of cheese. Kinda why i went the archer/switch hitter route.

So...I plan on taking on both at the same time given what you guys have said here. I doubt they would be as optimized as what you all have said here, so I think I have a shot.

just to get my strategy together for this thing:

Round 1:
If I win initiative, I plan on full round arrowing the monk. that should do roughly 60-120 damage if my attacks hit and he catches the first arrow. He will die if I get lucky.

monk maybe either does quiv palm + spring attack, flurry etc. I save and basically try to stay on my feet.

Rogue SA's me most likely out of stealth. I save vs. his lvl 20 ability and stay on my feet.

Round 2:
I switch to falchion and hopefully down the monk (mostly guaranteed if I get a crit).

Rogue does whatever he can to survive. I hopefully eat his attack like a champ.

Round 3:

Iffy, but hopefully I can kill the rogue in one full round attack.

If I lose initiative:

Round 1:

Monk and rogue jump me, and if I save vs. everything and eat their damage (thanks DR!), then

I full round falchion anyone in melee and hopefully take one out.

Round 2: Hopefully make saves and eat damage again.

Drop the first guy I hit.

Round 3: survive long enough to mop up what's left.

I'm sure I'm not clever enough to come up with something more complex than this...advice?

@SashaVikos - I'm not one of the fighter optimizers, but I'd think you could lose weapon spec and Greater spec with the bow (a loss of 4 damage per shot) and pick up a few critical feats. Critical feats + falchion are game-enders, especially if the falchion is the fighter's capstone weapon.

Others might have better ideas, though.

Yeah, I've been reading over the builds...looks like there are people out there who are a hell of a lot smarter than me heh. I'll tweak what I got so far. I didn't even conceive of some of this stuff...lord knows the sunday group wouldn't have either.

Hey guys. So in the OP's scenario, I am the guy who is supposed to bring said fighter to game with me this Sunday.

How this came up: We have in our group of lvl 11's a semi-min/maxy paladin and a guy who is playing a fighter. In my first session with them I find out a few things.
1. the paladin does way more damage than the fighter
2. as ashern said, the fighter is a 1h axe/shield dwarf fighter who has traditionally "sacrificed damage for feats that give good map mobility." I haven't looked at the guy's sheet, but during game, he didn't really do much moving.

Anyway, the fighter started complaining mid game that vital strike was worthless unless you could use it in your full round attack on your first hit. I said that would be super broken. After game, the DM basically asked me and another guy why it would be a bad idea to let him vital strike on his first hit then take the rest of his attacks. Arguments ensued. I broke out the iphone to read him DPR Olympics of fighter damage, but said DM "doesn't trust some internet hack's numbers." /facepalm

Anywho...

Let me show you what I've got so far and re-post the rules as the DM has set them out.

1. Bring a fighter/monk/rogue who is optimized for damage output
2. Core only
3. No magic items (master work and strength bows ok)
4. for stats we have to use the 20-point point buy
5. 20th lvl
6. we start 30 feet apart and the rogue has some things to hide behind for stealth/cover/concealment purposes (hence imp precise shot)
7. Winner gets $20

We are doing two scenarios:

1. 1v1 combats between fighter, rogue, and monk (though I will suggest making it a 2 on 1. The other guy and DM aren't necessarily great optimizers obviously).

2. group of 3 vs a single monster with ridiculous HP. (This is a damage vs. survivability test the DM came up with after I started bragging he was going to get steamrolled).

My plan was to make a high damage switch hitter that could take full round attack every round. I assume I'll be able to ace the rogue 2nd or 3rd round if I get my hits off.

The Green Arrow, Human Fighter 20.

Attributes (20-point buy)
Str: 20 (base 16, +2 stat points, +2 Racial Mod)
Dex: 20 (base 17 + 3 stat points)
Con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 7

Saves
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 11
Willpower: 6

HP 185
1d10 + 20 (Favored class)+ 40 (Con) + 20 (Toughness)

AC 25
10 + 9 (Fullplate armor bonus) + 5 (Dex bonus) + 1 (Dodge)
DR: 5/--

Skills
Minimum 1 per level + 1 per level (for human)
Perception +20 (for rogue spotting)
Heal +13 (for bleeding)
Climb +18

BOWS
Weapon to hit:
25*/25/20/15/10
plus many shot

Weapon Damage:
Mighty Composite Longbow (+5 Str Adjustment)
1d8 + 26
5 (stat) + 4 (weapon training) + 4 (weapon specialization) + 12 (Deadly Aim) + 1(PBS)

Weapon Critical: 20x3

FALCHION
Weapon to hit:
25/20/15/10

Weapon Damage:
Falchion
2d4 + 32
7 (stat and a half) + 3 (weapon training) + 4 (weapon specialization) + 18 (Power Attack)
Weapon Critical: 15-20x3 (auto confirm criticals)

Feats
1. Weapon Focus (Bows)
2. Point Blank Shot
3. Precise Shot
4. Quick Draw
5. Rapid Shot
6. Deadly Aim
7. Weapon Specialization (Bow)
8. Many Shot
9. Improved Precise Shot
10. Power Attack
11. Combat Reflexes
12. Improved Initiative
13. GWF (bows)
14. GWS (bows)
15. Dodge
16. Toughness
17. WF (2h)
18. WS (2h)
19. GWF (2h)
20. GWS (2h)
21. Improved critical (Falchion)
22. Lunge

Gear:
Masterwork Full Plate
Masterwork Falchion
Masterwork Composite Longbow (+5 Strength)
Explorer’s Outfit
Quivers (5)
Arrows (100)
Backpack

**I'll edit this as i tweak it