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I have really enjoyed how Pathfinder 2nd edition has limited power creep, which I think can be demonstrated in how, despite all the new classes over the years, the initial ones remain relevant. However, I’ve noticed some warning signs in Pathfinder Society (PFS) and believe this warrants a broader discussion as even those who only play in home games should be aware and join in the conversation.

First the context: in a recent PFS game, a player brought a 1st level dragonkin character to the table. It was described as coming from a boon that allowed him to use that 2E Starfinder ancestry in PFS because of his participation in the Starfinder play test. As we played through the scenario, his dragonkin character was able to easily fly himself and others over a chasm with a slippery bridge because dragonkin get unlimited flight right out of the gate. With low level assumptions between adventure design in PF and SF being so different, if more of these unintentional slippages occur, I’m worried that we’re headed for a landslide of power creep in Pathfinder. The only way I see around this is by making these types of assumptions explicit and possibly allowing for some control (at least in home games).

I understand that people have more control in their home games by limiting to only common options or just allowing things out of certain books, etc. However, for PFS the GMs do not have that kind of control. So for other PFS GMs, have you seen this type of power creep and how has it affected your games? For home GMs, does this lowering the barriers by having a shared ruleset between PF and SF affect you? If so, in what ways?

The problem with many of Pathfinder's subsystems is they are often half-baked and unreasonable for PFS play out of the book. Or maybe it's just that Paizo's authors and editors don't have guidelines for these things. Either way, it is a big problem! In this scenario we've got two subsystems: a presentation and an investigation. Without details of scaling these, that leaves GMs to try and balance in play or just throw up their hands in frustration and try to run as is. Here are the problems:

THE PRESENTATION
Sure there are scaling DCs for different tiers of parties. However, with more than four players, there is a much higher likelihood of larger groups easily hitting the presentation point success tiers. Should the number of rounds be lessened? Would it be better to raise the presentation point tier numbers? C'mon Paizo, this should be an easy problem to fix and provide guidelines.

Mathmuse, Mathmuse, Mathmuse! (I'm hoping that will summon them to this thread to assist with this issue.)

THE INVESTIGATION
Not only is this equally half-baked, but there are no guidelines to run this and the text is very unclear! The _titles_ indicate the players have four rounds. The text states the PCs can start anywhere within the theater. Does each PC get 4 rounds to investigate each of the areas? Do they move as a group? Does it take time to move between the areas?

Furthermore, the group only needs 8 investigation points to put the assembled academics minds' at ease. With four players and four rounds (?) that is a cakewalk. Too easy, so what's the point of running it as is? Once again, scaling with multiple players is not mentioned. So many non-existent explanatory rules, and so little time.

Did you, as a GM, try to fix these problems? If so, how? Was it successful? Now I've got to go run this d*!n thing.

Back in the day, when I heard that Starfinder 1e would be relatively quickly followed by PF2e, it became clear to me that Starfinder was the precursor for PF2e. It seemed that Paizo was trying some of the rules out before launching the new Pathfinder edition. At that point I stopped playing Starfinder, deciding that I’d rather just play Pathfinder 2e when it came out. And I haven’t played Starfinder since.

I didn’t want to learn an interim ruleset and then learn how the PF 2e rules were different. Admittedly, I also wanted a darker game than SF seemed to be. Now I am interested in what shared rules mean for the two games. Although I’m not going to run out and sign up for SF games, I am intrigued to see the overlaps, and if SF PCs will start showing up in organized Pathfinder Society play. Seeing some of the characters at work might convince me to give SF another shot.

What about you? Do you play one or the other of these games (or both)? Does the combined ruleset change your view about how you will interact with either the game, the two settings, or game play?

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to attend as much as I would have liked. For those who saw more of PaizoCon, what did you find interesting? What are you most excited about regarding announcements and why?

What I did enjoy were some well-balanced PFS scenarios with great GMs. I’m excited about the new season and the next year’s focus on war between Cheliax and Andoran. I’m hoping there were some good details given about how that might play out.

Is anyone else having issues seeing reviews for the products listed in Paizo's Black Friday sale? Whenever I click on the Reviews tab for any of the Pathfinder products it shows JobeEbey at the top with a one-star review, no comments, and then are no other reviews showing despite each product saying there should be 10, 7, 12, etc. other reviews. I tried this in three different browsers. Has the website been hacked?

Since leadership made it into GM Core, I was hoping it would be fixed to provide a little more fun, with a nod towards what was intended when first created. It was supposed to provide an option for gathering useful allies and creating a PC’s organization. Although it still operates to make an organization, that becomes more a lesson in spreadsheet tedium to document all the lower-level noncombatant NPCs—not what most people want to do in their RPGs. These NPCs, even the higher-level lieutenants, are not strong enough to help the PCs in combat. I am guessing the subsystem was designed to get away from players taking the 1st edition leadership feat so they have an army of followers, thereby unbalancing game play in combat, or allowing an army of scroll and potion creators. However, I think it is possible to have both these things under the subsystem.

I want to see what people’s experience with the leadership subsystem has been. Do you think it needs to be changed or does it work for the needs of your group? How have you used leadership in your game? Do you have ideas of how it should be used? How can it be altered to be more interesting?

Hmmm. A large theater for the upcoming AP? That will be very nice if it’s going to be used multiple times. I would like to see images of the maps to see if they’ll be closer or much different than others that I already have (especially the inn). Is Paizo still posting images of maps under the specific product?

After discussion with our local VC, I'm a bit baffled and not sure I understand how the application of experience works with bounties and quests. If you play a pregenerated character at a table for a bounty, can't you apply that experience to a higher level character of your own, using your character's level for appropriate treasure? If not, then your character can be stuck at an odd experience amount if they played three bounties in games at 1st level, and then played in other games and leveled up before getting that 1 XP from a fourth bounty. Your character is then always stuck at 1 XP less than leveling up if you can't play a pregen for a low level bounty or quest to apply as catchup to the 4 XP per scenario standard.

After seeing a thread about how this upcoming book could positively build from Gods & Magic, I was reminded of something that's been bothering me since the early 2E books were released. Simply put, in a world that is so suffused with deities (including some that have ascended from mortals!), we should have more resources on those people who don't believe in the gods' divinity. This is a uniquely Golarion dynamic, especially since there is a nation, Rahadoum, built on the Laws of Mortality. These laws renounce the gods' divine mandate, and would not exist without the real presence of accessible deities.

I don't mean to use Rahadoum as a knee-jerk reaction against the gods, but rather it would be fascinating to explore the nuance that occurs when people acknowledge divine beings exist, but refuse to worship them as deities. What does a culture that grows from the roots of spurning the divine magical tradition look like? Sure, the Gods & Magic book gave us one page on the Laws of Mortality that described the Pure Legion, whose adherents move to extreme rejection of gods. But I'm thinking about the less severe approaches to the Laws of Mortality.

For example, do all believers in the Laws of Mortality reject divine healing magic? If so, that cuts out a _lot_ of PCs who might be traveling in diverse adventuring parties (e.g., the Pathfinder Society specifically).

Furthermore, is there a monk philosophy that elevates the mind and body without a spiritual focus? Although this could already be made with the current rules, how might that tradition be different than others on Golarion when started during the Oath Wars?

What about those citizens who leave or dwell on the margins of Rahadoum? How does culture impact their interactions with others? I imagine a sophist archetype who understands the rhetoric and power of the divine, thereby using/poaching it from a variety of gods to fuel their own magic or power. Not necessarily cannibalizing it (and thereby making themselves a threat to organized religions), but just acknowledging it and using it for their own non-divine purposes.

Also, is there a venn diagram where atheists in Rahadoum and Pharasma's moral neutrality overlap, as alluded to in Gods & Magic? What does that look like if it's not worship or use of the divine magical tradition?

I'd like to see a little more on this, and some crunch for character options. What about you? Is there anything you would like to see in the upcoming Divine Mysteries that we're currently lacking?

For those of us grognards, and those without access to cool tools like Pathbuilder (my young son), please make a character sheet that is not taken up with a bunch of ‘designed’ dark space and lines in the wrong locations. We need space to scribble all the rules on the sheet and then write notes in the margins. Additionally, when preloaded sheets for the specific character classes come out, please have an editor look over the feats and class abilities to confirm they are in the correct spaces/levels. Thank you for all the hard work you do to facilitate our fun!

There were extensive lists of the maps used in Pathfinder Society scenarios for the 1st edition. Does anyone know where I could find the same for 2E? I've found Flip Mats and Map Packs listed here, but only for the playtest scenarios and some of the earlier modules.

This thread clearly has spoilers as the request asks for details regarding chase scenarios in 2nd edition PFS. Stop reading here if you do not want spoilers, as this is one long spoiler…

The chase rules have significantly evolved since the 1st edition, moving from more individual actions for progressing in a race, to cinematic group experiences. The rules in the Gamemastery Guide allude to these improvements, yet I haven’t seen them in play so don’t know if they work well at the table. I’m aware of many scenarios in 1E that use the rules but have not encountered any 2E Pathfinder Society scenarios with the new ruleset. I’m trying to find examples to use as inspiration for creating a race in my home game.

First, have you seen any 2E scenarios (or adventures) that use the new chase rules?

Second, have you played at a table with these new rules? If so, please tell us what you thought and how they worked.

I’m planning on setting up an epic race in my home campaign using the chase rules. The Gamemastery Guide updates the 1st edition rules so they are less about individuals moving through the chase – and possibly getting stuck at various points – to more cinematic group experiences. Have you used the chase rules in your game and how did it go? Did you use the GG rules as written? If so, did they work for your purposes? If not, did you just alter them or go your own way? Please give details.

I have now both played and GMed a scenario that grants the unique boon, Stalwart Shield. However, I don't see that in my list of boons. Should I be looking for it someplace other than the Pathfinder Boons?

There are a lot of stores from the Grand Bazaar listed under boons, so you can purchase items from those vendors for your character. However, I do not see a Frequent Shopper boon for the Summit & Boundary. Am I missing something? I really want to buy my character a waffle iron!

I find it odd that none of the psychopomps have options to travel the planes. Even the higher level creatures do not have Plane Shift as a spell or power. Does anyone know of other options that one of those creatures could use (other than gates) to reach the Prime Material Plan and then return to the Boneyard?

Will Paizo be offering other pregenerated characters for the Beginner Box? I've read the fiction about Otari and the oracle character, Osgrath, has really stood out! I plan on finally introducing my son to the game now as I think he's old enough at 10 years to really understand the game. I'm hoping there will soon be more options with the other classes as pregens for he and his friends.

I know I've played a 1stE scenario that has the First World's Witchmarket in it. Does anyone know which one that would be? Thanks!

My local gaming store said the Character Guide has been out of print for some time. Does anyone know what the reprint status is on this? Will it be held up by the coronavirus outbreak in China? I know that most, if not all, Paizo's products are printed there.

I'm looking forward to reading through this to educate myself about the new edition and then run it for our local group. Will it be Pathfinder Society supported?

The inherent weakness in save-or-suck spells is that you spend a round casting a spell that may not have any effect if your opponent saves. In a game that is often about economy of actions, what is the point of making a save-or-suck character? Following that admittedly provocative question, please detail class builds that you think are good save-or-suck characters (and why). Or at least give good save-or-suck spells that work, and why. Convince me about why I should make that type of character. Thanks!

The background:
For a scenario this weekend I was debating buying a medlance from a previous scenario boon to try and make a debuff warpriest. I thought the medlance would allow me to buy debuff potions and I could use the technological medlance to deliver them as a standard action in combat.

The problem:
After discussing it with some folks, I realized it wouldn't work because when you buy debuff potions in PFS you have to buy them at the lowest level which means the save DC will be really low - resulting in my enemies making them more often than not. So I had ruled out the medlance, then my GM said we needed to make a prison break and we were given some items to help. One of those items was an elixir of love. Needless to say, the temptation to jab one of the guards with a medlance filled with EoL to have him fall in love with one of our party members was too hard to pass. I know, I know, you should never go into a scenario and impulse buy, but the prison break was very successful. However, I now have a medlance that is arguably relatively useful at best, and will probably be useless as I go up in level and our enemies get better saves.

The fix?
So I humbly submit to all of your experience, how do I make the medlance more immediately useful, and what about the long term? What are the best debuff spells for potions? Or which scenarios can I play that have good pharmaceuticals as buffs? Please put the latter as spoilers.

Holy crap! I missed that memo. That is a bummer as I had wondrous item I was really looking forward to entering, but will be off the grid leading into round two.

I seem to recall a d20 low magic campaign and thought it was Iron Kingdoms, but that is more steampunk. Does anyone know of 3rd party campaigns that "fix" the over abundance of magic in 3rd Ed. and Pathfinder?

I put in an order on Sunday and was planning on adding the Holiday Promotional sale, but did not see an option to do so. After sending out a couple of emails I see that you have a backlog, and then I noticed that the order has already shipped - despite me wanting to add it to my next subscription.

Is it possible to add my holiday promotional code now, since I did not get a chance during checkout?

Additionally, I was also looking for the option to add this order to my next subscription shipment. I did not see an option for that as well. I understand that the shipment has already left the building, but I would have not even made this order without the double incentive of the extra 10% holiday sale and the savings from subscription bundling shipping.

Is there a possibility to resolve this issue? The Order number is 3395113

Please, dear Paizo webheads, can we create an icon - say a make-up compact or lipstick tube - that replaces the poster's icon when they use the word "rouge?"

In this exit poll I wanted to get an idea of who might take the round, although these have proved unreliable in the past. However, I also thought it might be interesting to get a sense of how many people actually play tested the round. So in order to vote, everyone should reply “quoting” the last message. If you play tested the round, add 1 P to the list, if not add 1 N. I will add a post to demonstrate…

Adam Donald – The Slavers’ End:
Steve Miller – Brike Isle:
James Olchak – Mushti’s Beguiling Oddities:
Tom Phillips – Eightfinger’s Tomb:
Sam Polak – Sequestered Palace Sumptuous:
Daniel Rust – Crimsondale Villa:
Russel Vaneekhoven – Hungry Mountain Dragon:
Mike Welham – Thanatopic Amphisbaena:

…and in my next message I quote myself to give an example (just removing the “Quote” text).

Because I currently don't have a gaming group for playtesting the round, I was thinking of voting quickly to not be swayed by the reports as they come in. How many votes will we get for round 4? I thought it might be interesting to see how people who don't playtest vote, compared to those who actually do the gaming.

First, a heartfelt thank you from the community to the folks at Paizo and the judges for all your hard work and dedication to pull this off! As this contest grows in popularity, so does the excitement of the fans and participants. The great feedback from the judges provides a learning experience about the game that couldn’t be matched during Dragon and Dungeon magazines’ era. However, this post is more about the legions of fans who support the contest in other ways, making the competition what it is. A lot of us have entered the contest since its inception three years ago, and I would like to honor the fans by proposing a vote for the community members who really made this year’s contest zing. Each round there were fans who left extremely useful comments, whether those were helpful critiques of items or insightful observations about entries.

This thread is meant to elicit nominations for the Pathfinder RPG Superstar’s Most Valuable Player for each round. So if you think there was someone who stood out, enter the round for which you are making the nomination, who the MVP is and why you are making the nomination. People can then vote for who they think the MVP should be and we can tally them up in a week. Although the contestants, judges, and folks at Paizo did a phenomenal job and I don’t want to slight their HUGE contributions, let’s focus the MVP on the community so please don’t nominate any Paizo staff, judges, or contestants who have reached the top 8 in previous years.

Round 1
I think that Azmahel deserves the award of MVP for the first round because of his (?) work in the “Clark, please give me feedback on my item” thread. Although many people commented on other’s magic items (with Clark starting this great idea, while Vic and many fans contributed feedback), Azmahel by far did the most complete job in critiquing a total of 149 items. The commentary wasn’t in-depth, but it was important to some people that just didn’t get any elsewhere because of the grind of the contest. I think this not only gave this MVP contender a broad range of experience to understand why the judges rejected some, it also gave MANY of the hopeful contestants at least some feedback on their rejected items. I for one know that his feedback will make the quality of at least one entry stronger next year.

Please let the nominations and discussion begin.

Bueller?
Bueller?

I was looking for a couple of threads dealing with AoW in Eberron. One of them was titled "endOfAOWInEberronInheritAKingdom" and the other was "expandedEberronConversion." Anybody have any ideas where they might be found? Thanks.