Raylol's page

Completely agree with Menacing Shade. Falcon Aim 1/day as a free action would still be decent for the price, but as a Standard Action its completely useless.

What does it do ?

Any class plus eldtrich heritage/VMC impossible sorcerer. You get craft woundrous items without any magic.

(unless they're excluded from that feat, such as with Power Attack).

So no, that doesnt help Mystic Bolts, since Haste specifically calls out that it only works with manufactured and natural weapons, and Mystic Bolts specifically calls out that its not manufactured or natural.

CMD tends to outpace CMB. In this case its especially hard because, unlike the classical combat maneuvers, its practically impossible to get additional boni on it. And you are a 3/4th class.

However, Tengus still make very good charging characters because you can choose the elven curved blade. I just wouldnt use the Swordmaster Archtype.

Holy s%&&, Haste doesnt work either RAW...

At 5th, when the Warlock starts to get going, you wind up with, assuming Dex 18, +4/+4/+4 to hit for 1d6+4 damage each. 3d6+12 damage with decent odds to hit (vs. touch AC) is not bad damage for 5th level. At all.

That necessitates Rapid Shot, TWF, and Arcane Striker, but that's all super doable by that point. And it scales quite a lot, actually.

By 17th, we're talking 3d6+10 per attack and an attack routine of something like +20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10. That's over 140 damage a turn average, and if not optimal, sure pretty darn good.

The warlock has a power spike at level 5 and at level 15/16. But every other level is pretty bad. Look at the damage output at level 1/3/8/10/12/14 too. You get +1 damage and an additional attack at every other level, but otherwise its pretty bleak.

But an elditch scoundrel also gets 6th level wizzard casting 3/4th bab and great out of combat utility. And dex-to-damage and sneak attack are better than mystic bolt.

The Problem with the stalker is that after 1 round, you are down to d4 sneak attack.

Not only that, but the rogue can already fill the face and out of combat roles, yo unlike the avanger wich is a massive out-of-combat upgrade over the fighter, you are merely a sidegrade.

Avanger Vigilante needs to leverage his talents to increase his damage to (near)-Fighter level. That means mostly finesse builds. But to a lesser extend str-TWF can be decent too, and since you get power attack and vital stike on sterioids you are not too bad at 2H.

However, there is also the Psychometrist Archetype, which gives you bane at level 2 as a standard action for 1 minute. This basically opens up every possible combat option for you.

There recently was a "best archer at level 6-8" thread. Look there for inspiration.

Also coordinate with your allies what classes they play.

Trading in Judgents for something as good/better is obviously ok. But I dont see that from the Zealot. Judgement+Bane is probably better than Smite too, you already noted how MAD the char is.

Additionally, everything is locked behind the talents. A WP/Inquisitor gets all the stuff directly from the class. So having awesome vigilante talents doesnt even matter because you need to spend it on Zealot stuff.

I was writing under the presumption that the build I was talking about included Arcane Accuracy as well

Uhm, what ?

Would you care to elaborate on that? I saw Zealot as more of a variant inquisitor than anything else, so unless you're about to tell me that the inquisitor is also bad and just rock my entire world I'm curious to see what you mean.

The Zealot lacks many things from the inquisitor, most notably Judgements and Bane. So its not comparable at all.

They do get Smite. But thats pretty much all they have. I dont know if its really enough to keep up with the Inquisitor/Warpriest. Probably not.

Hate to ask it because you've already helped a lot (and i will be refering to this as i make 20 different builds over the next week) but can you mock up how the vigilante psychometrist stacks up too? (because you know, dem focus powers)

Sure !

The basics are actually pretty simple.

1. Your social talents are completely out-of-combat to solve other problems. Any Guise and Social Grace can be pretty strong if you dont play in a group that can use renown, e.g. PFS. The Student of Philosophy trait can also be pretty good out of combat because it allows you to pump your Int as your sole mental stat and still be a decent party face.

2. As far as Implements go, Legacy Weapon is the reason you picked up the Archtype. Everything else is just a cherry on top. You get bane that can ve varied depending on enemy type, as well as shock/cold/corrosive/flaming, which you can also choose depending on enemy type.

If you start at level 1, choose the transmutation school as your first implement school. But if you start at 6, it may be better to get it as your second, since the following implements are not as good.

3. You choose avenger as your specialization and human as your race and then build a normal archer. by level 6 you have PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, WF long bow and Manyshot(can be switched ou for Deadly Aim, but Manyshot is ihmo better, but I havent made a lot of calculations as of yet.).

At level 8 you get free Weapon Specilization (plus your bonus vigilante feat), but otherwise you are now relatively free. Point Blank Master, the Snap shot line, Clustered Shot, Deadly Aim, Improved Precise Shot, Cunning Feint, Shadow's Speed and Unkillable can all be great.

So at level 6, your attack boni after rapid shot and many shot are +4x2/+4/-1. To each you add: +1WF, +dex, +2 bane enhancement and at least +1 weapon enhancement, which probably stacks to at least +13x2/+13/+8, possibly higher if you have bracers, higher weapon enchantments, or higher dex This means you make an average of 2,75 attacks per rund against AC19. You also deal 1d8 (base) +2d6 (bane) +1d6 (elemental) +3 enhancement, incl. bane) +str damage, for an average of 18+ damage (possibly higher) per arrow. Or in other words: 50 damage per round, after one standard action of preparing, at level 6. Pretty insane.

edit: this build is assuming 10 str, 20 dex (i.e. 18 after racial+2 from belt, or 18before racial+2 racial. I.e. very easy) and no items exept a +1 bow.

Other great items can be boots of speed, bracers of falcon aim, lots of ioun stones. Plus your usual big 6.

I will post a larger analysis of different levels later.

Archers in general will deal more damage. And you need to look at other lvels too, warlock is trong at level 6 and 16 when boni and TWF kick in, but on other levels, even those favourable to it, like level 12, 3 and 8, look much weaker.

I would again suggest comparing it against an bard or inquisitor archer.

Avanger Psychometrist (Vigilante) can be a very good archer if you accept spending a standard action for Legacy Weapon first.

And unlike the Relic Hunter you have full BAB. edi: and more feats.

Using deadly aim instead of rouch attack is even worse, because you dont hit *anything*.

@Chess: Usually, you include the hit chance in damage calculations. At level 6, you hit a bit more than 2 times per round on average. A fighter will hit less, but deal much more damage per attack.

The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

Is pretty clear, especially because Power Attack has the same phrasing and is excluded. I dont know how Deadly Aim could possibly work

And its actually +1+dex/+1+dex/+1+dex with 1d6+4 with point blank shot.

But its still relatively low (~15,2 dmg per round) compared to an archer bard or archer inquisitor, and classes like magus or fighter can dish out even more damage at that level.

TWF and Rapid Shot can also be taken in conjunction with Mystic Bolts allowing you to get 3 bolts off in a turn, by 5th level (when you can actually have all the relevant feats) that's some significant damage.

You deal 1d6+3 damage with +0+dex/+0+dex/+0+dex attack boni against touch AC 12. Thats not that much.

I'm not of the opinion that Captain America is a vigilante, even though he is referred to as such in the new movie. He doesn't have multiple identities and the like.

The vigilante doesnt need to be have different identities, you pretty much only lose srying resistance if everybody knows that you have both a social and vigilante identity. I think Iron Man/Tony Stark is already a common example of how such a vigilante would function. The same can be said about Captain America.

I'm going to reiterate my position: RAW it would probably works, but RAI its clearly not intended, because its completely overpowered. Its combining both melee fighting types without any big downsides.

We can probably expect an FAQ/errata

The boni from the arrow and your bow are treated as different entities. That means they do not stack if they are the same (no +5 enhancement bonus), but they are allowed to add up to an "effective" bonus over 10.

But as alraidy said, you need nonmagical arrows for that.

Similar thread

Bonus question: Assuming you are not allowed to go the shield bashing line because you only get the AC bonus, but cant use the shield, would you still be able to use double weapons ?

1. Cleric
2. Cleric
3. Cleric

?

Of course there are other classes that also have channel energy, but if you want a build focussed on channeling, you will probably end up at the cleric.

The real question is: what do you want to do ? Do you want to be a rouge that has magic to buff himself, or do you want an caster that has disable device ? You often talk like you want the second, but then build it like the first.

If you mainly want to play a caster, there are many, many better ways than the eldritch scoundrel. 3 Wiz(or 4sorc)/1 unRogue into Arcane trickster gives you a lot of casting, while loosing very few caster levels (which can be brought back by magical knack).

Or you simply pick up a trait for disable device, and go straight for a caster.

If you however want a rogue with some magic, the eldritch scoundrel is the best thing to choose.

If Paiuo didnt make the Warlock so s&&+ty, I wouldnt need to make post looking to make it viable. Its not like this build would still be pretty mediocre...

Relevant rule text:

Creating a mystic bolt requires the hand to be free, but the bolt appears only briefly, so a warlock using mystic bolts has a free hand any time she isn't attacking with a mystic bolt.

If I am TWF with a Scimitar in the main, and an Bolt in the off-hand, am I considered to have a free hand during the attacks with the main hand ?

BAB gives you three things:

1. Higher to-hit bonus.

2. More Attacks

3. Faster access to feats.

What aspects of BAB do you want too reduce, what to keep ?

E.g. it would be possible to give them free weapon focus and greater weapon focus for free if you want them to keep up with the fighters to hit bonus.

If you want to focus on the "training" aspect of the fighter, may I suggest giving them free haste during rage ? They would qualify for feats later and dont have the same to hit bonus, but they would keep up in martial prowess, which is the barbs role.

i mean normal invisibility...

Normal Invisibility only gives you 1 sneak attack, the rest are normal attacks. You need greater invisibility to full round attack wihile staying invisible.

The spells you listed are not effective anymore at the level you get them, at least not with your CL.

Which feat gives you greater invisibility at level 7 ?

Search for an appropiate monster and add the terror creature template.

The Slurk is a nice option imho. If they fail their perception checks, start the surprise round by bullrushing in, entangeling one (if the bullrush is successful) and forcing everyone to make a DC11 Will check or be panicked.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/brawler/archetypes/paizo---b rawler-archetypes/snakebite-striker

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/accomplished-sneak-attacker

Proficiency in a weapon is actually worded pretty similiarly to arc slinger. It "requires" you to use a sling (or any other weapon you have proficiency with) and if you do that, you dont get the usualy non-proficiency malis.

Benefit: You make attack rolls with the selected weapon normally (without the non-proficient penalty).

Normal: When using a weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Noote the same "When using X" phrasing.

@avr: Cunning feint would be even better as far as feinting goes.

@Forcy: Warlock bolts are pretty mediocre weapons. You cant enchant them and the damage doesnt scale well. They have two advantages: switch hitting (which you already seem to be thinking about) and mo' f!~!in' touch attacks

You need level 5 warlock, otherwise the whole builds doesnt make any sense and you are better off with a wizzard that throws daggers.

Its probably best to be in melee most of the time, and only switch to ranged if the action economy/mobility/terrain is unvafourable to melee. Cunning Feint helps if you dont have any other way to sneak. Then at level ~14 you should have plenty of uses of greater invisibility to make full range attacks at your pleasure.

You are level 15 till you reach Surprise Spells (and 14 untill Invisible Thief). What do you do in the meantime ?

What does "require" mean exactly ? Is that simply a synonyme for "is prerequisite" then ?

Does Slipslinger style gice you proficiencies in other slings, specifically the double sling ? I assume so, since you get proficiencies via class abilities or feats, and therfore it should count, but I am not sure about the "require" in the style feat description.

Both a gnoll and a kuru with 1 level in warrior would actually be CR 1/3 (-1 non-player class, -1 slow wealth).

Heres the gnoll race: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp /gnoll-6-rp

They are more than adequate if you want to use them as enemies, there is no reason to switch to kurus from a crunch pov.

Besides the Terror Creature Template: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/terror-creature -cr-0 I already mentiooned, there is also the Nightmare Template: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/nightmare-creat ure-cr-1 and the

The Antipaladin also has an aura that reduces your saves against fear effects. COmbine that with the terror creature template and you have a pretty hefty encounter. He would also have cruelties.

There are two different gnoll races you could use to simply make a normal NPC with the normal rules. because of their racial boni they make pretty good los level warriors.

What CR should the encounter have ?

There is a terror creature template with a fear aura that may be what you are looking for.

To phrase it differently: Normally, using two hands to attack means you are not allowed to use any additional thing or action. This feats instead allows you to additionally *use* a shield in specific circumstances. Therefore, you do all the normal things you can do when using a shield, like defending yourself (getting an AC bonus) or making a shield bash.

Raylol wrote:

Since it isnt specifically called out, TWF/shield bash likely isnt intended to work and therefore will likely be errata'd, but the current wording doesnt forbit it.

I don't think it does. The feat lets you use a shield while also using a two handed polearm, but it doesn't actually reduce the handedness of the weapon and you already can't TWF with a two handed weapon normally (as per FAQ on armor spikes).

The FAQ rules out making unarmed/gauntlet/spike attacks because you are already using both hands. Generally, having a two handed weapon rules out any other additional things you can do/wield, such as additional attacks or shields.

This feat however lets you use a shield despite the fact the you use a two handed weapon. Logically, this would overrule previous FAQs. Unless you have it somewhere that "using" a shield is somehow a different state that doesnt allow shield bashs.

But again: this seems more like a oversight that allows things RAW that werent intended and is likely going to be errata'd. (Altough I would find it really cool if it werent).

Whats really interesting though, is if it works with double weapons/spear dance.

Unless everything is allowed, the feat really isnt clearly worded.

Since it isnt specifically called out, TWF/shield bash likely isnt intended to work and therefore will likely be errata'd, but the current wording doesnt forbit it.

Spear Dance Style (and double weapons) should work though, even if shield TWF does not ?

Is it a style feat ? Can you go shield/twf with it ?

There are the usual suspects: Fighter and Barbarian. But I guess you want more unique builds ?

A reach cleric could probably benefit a lot from it, if you can squeeze in the feat and gold.

Paladins, Bloodrager as well as Inquisitors can make great THF too, if you want a balnce between martial and magic.

Vigilante could work, depending how the feat is worded. But if its a straight THF build, its way worse than a fighter (unless you go elven with finesse)

Does Slipslinger Style give you proficiency with all slings (i.e. the double sling specifically) ? I assume it should, but RAW its questionable at best.

How would you get Fighters tactics at 5th level ?

Thanks for the answer. Could you further explain why you think so ?

Thanks.

Hi !

When using their race bonus for favoured class, Dwarf Inquisitors can use 1 1/2 their level when determining the effects of 1 Judgment. (APG, page 13: Add +1/2 to the inquisitor’s level for the purpose of determining the effects of one type of judgment. Also accesible via d20pfsrd or the pathfinder reference document)

Some Inquistor Archtypes, such as Sacred Huntsmaster or Sanctified Slayer replace the Judgments with other abilities.

Is it possible to choose the dwarfen racial favoured class bonus for one of the replacements ?

Examples:

Animal Companion (using 1 1/2 her Inquisitor level as hunter level)

Sneak Attack (getting an addionel sneak attack at 4-5-7-9-11-13-15-17-19 [aka 1 1/2 times the normal] instead of at 4-7-10-13-16-19)

Also: would that be pfs legal ?

At wich time (GMT) will the PDF be available ?