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I have always thought there was room for something like Alternity's skill tricks in 3.x/PF. In that system, once you reached a certain level of skill, you learned some special uses of the skill analogous to feats. Stuff like Diversion is perfect for that. I'm guessing that you haven't had a chance to look at Pathfinder Unchained since the Skill Unlocks option is pretty much exactly this.
If you haven't done it already, I'd suggest reading the aboleth article on the Pathfinder wiki. You might already have the info, but at least it's all collected in one place. Also, I suspect that there will be a lot more about the aboleth in the next Adventure Path, The Ruins of Azlant, so you might just need to be patient until later this year. I also recommend reading up on the Veiled Masters, which I believe has been "updated" in Bestiary 6.
Since you've specifically said that it's bounty hunters trying to bring "her" back, the simple solution is that she has information that the villain needs, even if she isn't away of what that is. More complex options are that she's the daughter of one of his enemies/rivals that the villain had been holding hostage; she might be part of a prophecy that the villain is trying to stop or make sure happens; or she's a component of a ritual which might, or might not require her being sacrificed. You can always keep her in the dark about what this knowledge/situation is which would be a fun excuse to run some "flash back" scenes/adventures that would give her a chance to figure out what the details are. If she took something of importance, the pursuers would be more likely trying to get the object, not her, and if she "saw something she shouldn't have", it would more likely be assassins after her.
First off, thanks for the free copy of this PDF. As requested, here are my thoughts. I just finished reading through the PDF and it has some interesting ideas. Of the three types, I like the chakra stones the best, though having not read the Occult Adventures book yet, I was initially confused by the comments about the extra powers available if the user had the matching chakra open. It would have helped reduce some potential confusion by including a note about where the regular chakra rules are located. Overall, these seem the most useful and the most immediately interesting of the three types of stones described. While the Zodiac stones have some interesting powers, I can see them being the least "game friendly" of the three in that by their very nature, they require the GM to keep a pretty careful and accurate world calendar. The idea that certain powers are tied to one specific day of the year seems to limit the likelihood that those powers will every be particularly useful. With the zodiacal theme, I'm a bit surprised that there weren't "cusp" powers like the overlapping chakra powers. Since the zodiac also splits the signs into elemental groups, it would have been cool to do some set based boosts tied to that theme as well. The dragon stones were my least favorite of the three, but ironically are also the ones that I think have the greatest potential to be expanded into something really cool. Why, with both the stones creation story and the activation requirements involving both a dragon and a non-dragon, are all of the powers based on just the abilities/theme of the original dragon? These stones seem to me to have had the greatest potential for full "artifact status" depending on the event that lead to their creation. There certainly wasn't space in this booklet to add all the possible powers that might have been added to tie into the non-dragon who died, but I'd suggest that these types of stones deserve their own dedicated book to expand on the kernel presented here. I could imagine boosts and synergy powers that might be unlocked by having either or both of the living dragon/non-dragon pair involved in the stones use actually matching the types that died to create them. This could elevate them into fully major artifacts with the possibility of whole campaigns surrounding them.
Sounds interesting. I'm definitely up for giving you a review in trade for a copy.
For the current arc, you could bring in a group of raiders who have designs on something in the active city, perhaps even a full blown military invasion. You could add a steampunk flavor by having the invaders be air breathers wearing "diving gear" and supported by a submarine. Think the Natilus and crew from the old Disney 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. If what the raiders want is in the ruins, you can stage a series of running skermishes while the PC's try to get to the "prize" first. This would give you the option of having the raiders reappear in the later chapters too.
It will probably help to know at least the basic mix of levels and classes for your players. If you're considering aboleths, I'm guessing they aren't beginning levels. Also, how much do your areas interact? Is there a thriving trade between them? Wars and political tension?
Well, your additional details begs the question, "Why them?". Other than the obvious metagame reason of needing to pull the players' characters together, why have these specific people been chosen out of all the people in the world? If that isn't one of the secrets/mysteries that they are supposed to solve, maybe be blunt in their invitation and tell each of them, "You because...". Are the PC's aware that they have been being watched? If not, the whole mysterious person angle doesn't really effect the characters, at least to start - they could find out later that they had been watched I suppose. If they do know that they have been being watched, you could use that in the letter as part of the hook. "I have been watching you (having you watched) for some time now and I believe that you are one of the people I need." This might be particularly effective if their back story includes them trying to catch/meet the mystery watcher and the chance of finally doing that might be the reason those PC's answer the call. As a side question, are they being watched "in person", or are they being scryed on? If it's been in person, why hasn't it been scrying? Is there something blocking that or is there another power that might notice the scrying and thereby notice the PC's too, so scrying was ruled out to keep the Society's interest in the PC's a secret? I'd think that anyone powerful enough to be interested in a mixed group of people from all over the world would easily have access to scrying either directly, or as part of their resources. A savvy player might start asking questions about this... As a side thought, just because the PC's haven't been members of the Pathfinders, that doesn't mean that by 10th level they haven't met and interacted with people who are. Some of the invites could still be a direct personal request from someone they know from their past.
How long have the characters been members of the Pathfinder Society? At 10th level it could have been for a fair while. If that's the case, Venture-Captain Parre may know some or all of them personally, or one of his aides does - maybe even a mix to tie the characters to different potential support NPC's. If that's the case, have the letters actually be personal - "Dear Grognak, I hope this doesn't come at an inopportune time, but I (or the Society, or my boss VC Parre, etc.) need your help...". If your players have given you any backstory details, you can reference something from that to create the historical connection between the characters and the NPC's who are writing and asking for help.
I've always been fond of the old Tibbit race of catwere's and they would fit right in with your witchy theme. I played one once that I gave one level of warlock to and then described my arcane blasts as ranged cat scratches.
'tis the season and I am moved and inspired by your generosity. Thank you very much!
It's been years since I posted, but I'll break my silence to be included. Even if I'm too late, cheers and happy holidays!
I appreciate the discussion about the editing issues. I spent 7 years in the digital print industry in purchasing and inside sales/customer service and am very aware of the time and skill it takes to edit a monthly publication like this. I can only imagine that more than one resident of Bellevue has unknowingly (hopefully) had their life in danger from driving on the same road as James after a late night of putting the most recent project to bed. His crossed and bleary eyes after that many hours staring at a computer screen has to make all of those white lines on the street pretty much look the same! :) That said, I have a question and an offer: From the discussion on here, it sounds like there has been web enhancements to earlier issues of Pathfinder. Here I'm going to admit to my own blindness and ask, "where?". I can't find them. :( On the offer end of things, I'm local to the Paizo home office (Everett) and would be willing to add my admittedly nit-picky eye to any penultimate draft you want. I've often found that the reason for many of the kinds of issues getting through that I brought up comes from the editorial staff being too close to the work. You already know what it's "supposed" to say, so in the long and late hours, the brain just adds in the "missing" info. Having a proofreader that doesn't have any idea what a product is "supposed" to say, might be the perfect way to take these products from great to stellar. I realize that the odds of you letting someone do something like this is fairly slim, but the offer is here and I'm in your database if you want to find me. Heck, I'd even do it for a copy of the final product, so I'd be cheap nit-picker and easy to justify in the budget. ;)
Thanks for the quick response, Steve. I did mention that some of the things I pointed out where minor which could certainly be taken as nit picking, but my point overall was that there seems to be many more of these kinds of errors, both minor Spoiler: and major (like the tunnel widths) Spoiler: , in this adventure "as published" than there has been in the earlier adventures in the path.
(like the "missing" traps) I can plainly see that you have come up with some great stuff here and most of it made it through into the final edition. I definitely see most of these errors probably being on the editorial side of things and in the pulling together of the art, design and writing into a final product, rather than with anything you or Rob Lazzaretti did independently. All of my questions/concerns can definitely be answered/fixed by even a halfway competent GM, either on the fly or in pregame prep, just as you were able to give answers to all of them. As a published adventure, however, I believe that the number of places where a GM "needs" to make something up or fix something should be almost nil. They should be able to place their focus on making the adventure work for their group of players without being distracted with multiple occasions of “I wonder what was really supposed to happen here?” or “huh?”. I suspect that if almost any of the issues I brought up showed up in one of the RPG Superstar entries, at least one of the Paizo judges would have jumped all over it. Paizo is currently putting out some of the slickest, high-quality adventures on the market and as such, I feel that their customers can and should hold them to a higher standard. PS: I’m still curious on what your take is on Spoiler: . what Arkrhyst’s main sin would be
Okay, first off let me say that I really like the ideas and most of the details of Sins of the Saviors as far as I have read so far. That being said, I have also found this adventure to be the one of the series that has the most editorial and continuity errors and that is very frustrating. I am slowly reading through the adventure. Here are the issues I've come up with so far, some minor and some major: Spoiler:
Lamashtu's Shrine: 1. In area A1, I really appreciated that Stephen considered the logic behind why the secret door wouldn't have an Arcane Lock spell placed on it. However, having an Alarm spell in the same area seems to have the exact same issues. Why place an alarm if there isn't something here to find, especially since it's at the bottom of the stairwell? It would make much more sense to place the Alarm spell in the passageway on the other side of the secret door, since any intruders will need to go through there anyway and a spell placed there won't be as surprising or the same kind of red flag to the players. 2. The Scribbler's stat block shows that he has only cast 1 Alarm spell for the day. Shouldn't that be 3: one each for areas A1, A6 and A9? I suppose one could argue that the durations on these are 26 hours (2 hours/caster level; 13th level caster) and that the PC's manage to get here while two of them are still in effect, but it would make more sense to me that he would renew them all at the same time so he didn't have to try to remember when he did each one. 3. The general notes on the shrine specifically state "All of the doors in the complex (with the exception of the secret door in A1) are covered by silent images to make them appear to be plane walls." However, the flavor text of area A2 gives a detailed description of the doors to the south. Are these also an exception to the rule, or should this description have been in the detail text for what they look like if/when the PC's get rid of the image? The Sihedron Circle: 1. "Of course, each attack against a stone triggers its trap"...huh? What traps? None are listed. Since the explosive damage is specifically described as being an additional effect that takes place the moment a stone is destroyed, that isn't the trap referred to. Oops! Can we please have an erratum for this right away? Also, what are the Spot/Disable Device DC's for the final explosion traps? Xin's Stairway: 1. "while the final steps lead directly up to carving of an ancient face"...um...except for the 60' x 50' "landing" between the top of the steps and the face. 2. It would have been nice if there was some mention of where the elementals start from so a GM knows if the players have a chance to notice them as they move to attack and possibly cast spells/drink potions/etc. before they get there. A 200' rise with multiple switchbacks is a lot of territory for them to potentially have to cover. 3. The description of the elementals state that they are bound to the stairway, but their combat tactics then talk about them trying to bull rush intruders off of the "landing". IMO, if you're more than 5 - 10' from the top stair, you're not on a landing anymore, nor on part of the stairs. Arkrhyst doesn't trigger the elementals when he spies over the edge at the players and he doesn't have a Sihedron Medallion, so that seems to support that the elementals can't move onto the landing in front of the cave. This also implies that if the PC's manage to get to the landing by some method other than walking up the steps such as flying/teleportation/etc. they won't trigger the elementals. 4. The tactics for the elementals also mention that when they try to bull rush intruders off the stairs, the defenders receive a +2 to their opposed rolls because of the "stone railing." Here's another "huh?". No railings are mentioned anywhere except in the tactics block. Along with #1 of this section, the disconnect between descriptions and details are confusing and sloppy. The Freezemaw Factor: With as much importance as is given to the GM defining the PC's main sins for purposes of determining the effects of the various Sin Triggers in Runeforge, I'm very surprised that no primary sin was given for Arkrhyst. The easy-out answer would be greed, but Stephen seems to have given some real thought to the dragon's history and mind set, so there are lots of chances for much more interesting options that really open up some RPing possibilities here: Wrath: for hating the PC's for robbing his hoard; Pride: he's just sleeping the years away now dreaming of his many conquests; etc. If for no other reason that this, it almost begs a GM to make sure that Arkrhyst is around to follow the players into Runeforge. The Abjurant Halls: Area E3 says that "the entrance to this room may only be found with a DC 30 Search check after removing the rubble in front of it." The map shows neither secret door, nor any rubble to remove, just an open passage way. The description also says that there is a 10' x 10' area in front of the secret door. On the map, this it is actually closer to 7.5' x 7.5'. For that matter, the same disconnect exists with the description of the tunnels leading away from the Runeforge: 10' wide in the description, but 7.5' wide on the map. This really only affects the GMs that like to blow up the maps to use as combat grids, but still... And yes, I am fully aware of the challenges of scheduling between writing, art, layout and production. It's sloppy and confusing. The Ravenous Crypts: 1. How do the skull shaped secret doors work? Do they slide to one side? Are they plugs pushed into each opening that just pull/push out? If they are plugs, how much do they weigh and how much damage would they do if one was dropped on a PC? I specifically ask this because it seems to be implied that the six, guardian mummies in area are still in their respective tombs since they are not in the visual description. This should give the players at least one round of combat to react/prepare as the mummies come climbing out, but if the guardians are entombed higher up than 10' in the 30' high chamber, them pushing out the plugs could potentially drop them on a surprised or unsuspecting PC. 2. Just some things that made me go "Hmmm": if the nobility that pay to be buried here know that they are just going to be used for "parts" and if no one that comes here leaves here (so no visitors or funeral parties), why did they bother to build actual crypts and tombs? What's the point? No one other than the research staff would ever see the tombs and it would be cheaper and easier to just stack the corpses like cordwood and grab what is needed for the various experiments from the piles as they go. I suppose from a gluttony view of things, the tombs and such are "consuming more." 3. The idea of wraiths in the walls is just cool at so many levels though I'm a little disappointed that you didn't go for wight-washed walls instead. :) Should it be assumed that the wraiths are in the marble of the secret doors as well?
That's as far as I've gotten so far. I hope this is everything, but with not even having read halfway through yet, I'm a bit concerned. All this being said, I do very much like the ideas here. I just wish the editing had been tighter.
Currently about 1/3 of the way through The Well of Ascension, the second book in the Mistborn trilogy by Brandon Sanderson. The first book in the series was incredible and while this one is suffering slightly from a case of "middle book"-itus, I still highly recommend it. The magic system he has developed for this is one of the most original ones I've seen in years. BTW, in case no one else has bothered to mention this somewhere else on here, Brandon Sanderson has been hired to complete the final book in Jordan's Wheel of Time series.
#147 is posted now too. Thanks gang!
Yes, thank you!
Hey there gang, Any chance of having a Paizo staff member actually reply to this thread? Heck, let's bump up the ante and ask (again) what the status is for the online supplements for issues #146-#150?
Yeah, so far so good on these. Just out of curiousity what happened to the "wandering monster charts for the hinterlands" that volume 1 said would be in this volume? Another victim of "not enough space"? Will we see them as a web enhancement?
Thanks gang!
Paul, go to your My Downloads page, click the "Personalize this file" link, wait 10-20 seconds, then click the "check back" link. By then the "download this file" link should be ready and you can click that to download your PDF. Hi Gary, Thanks for the help. I just logged in again and this time it's there. I'm downloading it as I type. =)
It does show up on the DL page. However, item #2 below the picture of the issue says "Download This File", is in a green font and isn't a hotkey, so I can't actually download anything. Both of the links connected to the picture of the product and the name of the product take me to Paizo's Blog, not to the PDF, so no luck there either. I've e-mailed customer service, so hopefully they will figure out what's going on soon.
Well, the download page says that it's there for download, but the link that says "2. Download this file" is green and isn't a hotkey, so no download. Both the picture of the product and the name below the picture take me to the Blog. I did send an e-mail to customer service as well.
As I just mentioned on a different thread. I finally did receive my e-mail with the link to the PDF, except that the links on that page don't work. They just take me to the catalog page. So I still don't have access to the file. How common is this problem? :( ::edit...actually, the links take me to the Paizo Blog page::
Don't feel too badly. I got the infamous e-mail telling me that my charter subscription issue is shipping along with the download link for the PDF. Except that the link doesn't work. It just takes me to the catalog page. Nothing like getting nothing wrapped in the promise of something to add excitement and disappointment to your day. Here's hoping the link is fixed before they start sending those e-mails out to the rest of you and before we actually have the hard copies in hand.
Do you have a quick link to the relevant EnWorld posting?
Yes, the whole page has new art on it. At the top of the page is one of the coolest beholders I've ever seen. There is also a troll figure from a future miniature set that is also killer. The over all look of the new page is definitely a step up from before.
The image is now appearing on the page and yes, it looks very cool. I see that there is a grid pattern over it. What's the scale? Are each of the squares 1 mile x 1 mile?
Hmmm...yeah, if there is supposed to be a pic of the map on the blog page, I'm not seeing it either.... |
