4dventure


4th Edition

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Scarab Sages

Celestial Healer wrote:
That's all I play. 4e is for old farts who won't move on to the new edition.

I always hated that you had to take ranks in Perception(touch) and roll a touch check to feel anything. I mean, it's four editions by now, you'd think they'd work this stuff out.


Anyone have any luck with the getting to the article by Jason Bulmahn? "Errands and Excursions". Is it about 4e?


Celestial Healer wrote:
That's all I play. 4e is for old farts who won't move on to the new edition.

Ha! Good to see you sticking to your guns, there :)

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Welcome to the future home of Dragon Magazine! We can’t wait until October to show you issue #360, but here’s a little taste of what you can look forward to:

Dungeons & Dragons 360
By Andy Collins, Rob Heinsoo, and James Wyatt

For thirty-three years, the D&D game has led the fantasy hobby gaming scene, and 4th Edition is taking the game in places its creators never dreamed. The 4th Edition lead design team speaks up in this article, sharing their sources of inspiration from editions past, as they look forward to the future.

The Ecology of the Death Knight
By Matthew Sernett

These foul undead have haunted many a campaign. Now learn their dark origin, and the source of their fell power.

Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Graz’zt
By James Jacobs
The Dark Prince revealed! Explore the dark secrets of the demon prince of seduction.

Plus Dragons of Eberron coverage, weekly Design & Development updates, and more!

Silver Crusade

In all seriousness... Here is my take on the personal economics of a new edition, and why I'm not irritated at "needing to spend more money" when I already have a substantial 3.5 library.

For me, I buy D&D books regularly. Probably 6 or so a year on average. Lately, it's been less, because I really feel like WotC is scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas.

It's not that I'm psyched to move to a new edition, or that I really need new books to buy. It's that, if I anticipate buying half a dozen books in 2008, making 3 of them new core rulebooks isn't really an increased expense for me. I'm spending money on books that I would have been spending on books anyway.

I hope that 4e is good, of course. I'm not interested in buying bad books. I just don't see a new edition effecting me adversely.

Other people with different buying patterns might have a different experience. If you never buy rulebooks, than buying new ones is a new expense.

For me, I'm interested in seeing something new, and deciding for myself how I like it.


So Paizo did know?

James Jacobs and Nicholas Logue. Plus others, probably.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Eltanin wrote:
Anyone have any luck with the getting to the article by Jason Bulmahn? "Errands and Excursions". Is it about 4e?

No, it's a web enhancement for the expeditions to the ruins of Greyhawk. Some Side Quests and a tactical encounter.


Celestial Healer wrote:

In all seriousness... Here is my take on the personal economics of a new edition, and why I'm not irritated at "needing to spend more money" when I already have a substantial 3.5 library.

For me, I buy D&D books regularly. Probably 6 or so a year on average. Lately, it's been less, because I really feel like WotC is scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas.

It's not that I'm psyched to move to a new edition, or that I really need new books to buy. It's that, if I anticipate buying half a dozen books in 2008, making 3 of them new core rulebooks isn't really an increased expense for me. I'm spending money on books that I would have been spending on books anyway.

I hope that 4e is good, of course. I'm not interested in buying bad books. I just don't see a new edition effecting me adversely.

Other people with different buying patterns might have a different experience. If you never buy rulebooks, than buying new ones is a new expense.

For me, I'm interested in seeing something new, and deciding for myself how I like it.

Can I have your old ones? Because I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel myself, but it's to find two pennies to rub together. I'll take 'em even if they're a bit charred...


WormysQueue wrote:
No, it's a web enhancement for the expeditions to the ruins of Greyhawk. Some Side Quests and a tactical encounter.

Right on. Thanks for the scouting info.

Scarab Sages

Eltanin wrote:
Can I have your old ones? Because I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel myself, but it's to find two pennies to rub together. I'll take 'em even if they're a bit charred...

Oooh, I wonder if there could be some kind of "3.x Book Exchange" thread, to connect gamers getting rid of old 3rd Edition books with gamers looking to pick some up.


Grindor wrote:

Design & Development: Class

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070816b

Wizards wrote:

Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.

“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”

“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”

“He’s sword and board, man.”

“Longsword?”

“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”

“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”

The names and destinations of the powers mentioned above might have changed by the time the game is in your hands. What won’t change is that fighters care about which weapons they use much more than other characters. Other character classes have specific weapons and weapon types that they tend to rely on while still maintaining access to a larger chunk of the weapon chart. The fighter is the only current 4th Edition class with capabilities that depend on the weapon they have chosen to train the most with. Even at 1st level, a fighter who uses an axe has a different power selection than a fighter who relies on a flail or a rapier or a pick. In the long run, fighters can diversify and master powers related to a few different weapons, but most will opt to focus on the weapon that suits their personal style, helps their interactions with the rest of the PCs in the group, and carries all the magical oomph they’ve managed to acquire.

Many fighters will opt for swords. Swords have the most flexible assortment of powers. In a fighter’s hands, the longsword is the queen of the battlefield and the greatsword is the...

Hrm. I hope this doesn't mean weapon-based fighting style feats. Because I've been working on that for my homebrew for YEARS...


Okay, for those who've been able to get through to Wizard's site, I'm interested in knowing whether there's any new art on the page(s)?

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Celestial Healer wrote:

In all seriousness... Here is my take on the personal economics of a new edition, and why I'm not irritated at "needing to spend more money" when I already have a substantial 3.5 library.

For me, I buy D&D books regularly. Probably 6 or so a year on average. Lately, it's been less, because I really feel like WotC is scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas...

...For me, I'm interested in seeing something new, and deciding for myself how I like it.

Amen to that. As someone who spends 4% of his annual income (I'm not joking) on gaming materials, I feel the same way. I will probably show my protest of 4th Ed. in a very small way... like only spending 3% of my annual income on books next year.

I don't think 4th Ed. is going to cripple me. Like CH, I was going to buy gaming books next year anyway. Whether they are 3.5 or 4th Ed. books is kind of irrelevent. That said, I also hope the new edition is something worth buying. Reading the information that someone copy/pasted about how fighters are going to work made me very hopeful that it will, in fact, be something new and cool. I support any system that leads to more player options while still permitting classes to have a distinct 'niche' that they excel at.

Just remember, folks, the release date is March 2008. That's right around the time tax returns should be coming back to those of us who tend to file early (and those of us who actually GET returns...). Most people who are in the situation of "I can't afford a new edition" will probably find that they can if they're willing to devote $100 of their tax return to that purpose. I sincerely doubt the core books are going to be more than that.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Phazzar wrote:

So Paizo did know?

James Jacobs and Nicholas Logue. Plus others, probably.

I wouldn't say that necessarily, having an adventure and article accepted just means they knew that they were going to be in the new e-version of the magazines. The mags even if they are online are still going to be 3.5 until probably next summer/fall.

Dark Archive

I actually presumed that the Paizo crew were aware of, if not involved in, 4ed information. They're too well-used by Wizards for their "better" supplements to not be involved.
Any announcement by Eric and James upcoming on how 4ed will impact Pathfinder?


Here's the stuff from the Playtest Report:

Wizards wrote:


Our staff is hard at work playtesting 4th Edition, and each week, we’ll give you a look inside one of our very own D&D games. These articles include plenty of homebrewed material that the players and DMs have made up to suit their own campaigns, just like your games, but we’ll be sure to point out when they’re stretching their creative muscles.

June 28th, Thursday Night, Wizards Conference Room (Wayne Manor).
Campaign Arc:
Castle Smoulderthorn
DM: Dave Noonan
Players: Bruce Cordell (yours truly), Richard Baker, Logan Bonner, and Toby Latin

Before we begin play, another player is giving Rich grief about one of Rich’s character’s abilities that grants the rest of us a blanket +2 to saves; it just ain’t sexy. Rich says something like, “I don’t know, I doubt I’ll use it that much, but who knows, maybe everyone in the party will get entangled.”

Sure enough, not 10 minutes later this fire-crazed flame priest has entangled half the party with fire snakes! Rich throws up his +2 to saves and, voila, at least two of us get free immediately. I guess that power isn’t so corner case after all.

In my case, I’ve thrown together a “psion.” It’s because prior to the shift to the new playtest rules, I was playing a psion elan named Infandous. You wonder, why the scare quotes? Well, just between you and me, updated-Infandous-the-psion is actually a wizard with the serial numbers filed off.

Anyhow, I missed the last few sessions, so I’m slightly confused when the session begins—apparently the group is still breathing hard from their last session, not even rested or healed, when we hear a shuffle of footsteps from behind a set of double doors. The doors aren’t completely closed, so I “mentally” whip them open from across the room.

Coming down the hallway is a troop of azer, some sort of burning serpent, and the flame priest I mentioned earlier. And it was a fight! And . . . we won. Without really breaking a sweat, either, truth be told.

Emboldened, we advanced down that hallway now littered with azer remains and ash, took a right, and pretty quickly found a dusty lintel inscribed with the words: Tomb of the Black Host.

“Sounds like someplace loot is stored,” said Infandous, eager to expand his repertoire of cool equipment. A little more discussion, and we pushed on the door. It opened . . .

And Dave spent nearly 10 minutes constructing (using Dungeon Tiles!) an ominous, crypt-lined ruin complete with three golden sarcophagi that emanated magic. Dave did a good job laying out the floor plan of the room. Such a good job that we lingered in the door looking into the shadow-lined mausoleum for a minute, then, another . . . then decided as a group that, loot or no loot, perhaps it would be better to let whatever lay in the deathly quite of the tomb alone. So, we closed the door and continued down the main hallway.

Sorry, Dave.

About the Author

The rules have changed a lot since that first idea of the 20-level race, but they still serve the same purpose: to make sure that your race stays not just relevant but actually important all the way up through thirty levels of adventure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yes, the whole page has new art on it. At the top of the page is one of the coolest beholders I've ever seen. There is also a troll figure from a future miniature set that is also killer. The over all look of the new page is definitely a step up from before.


Thammuz wrote:
Any announcement by Eric and James upcoming on how 4ed will impact Pathfinder?

This is from the latest blog post:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Of course, the con is buzzing about the Wizards announcement to take place at 6:30 P.M. Eastern tonight. We're all aware by now that they're announcing 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons tonight and the Paizo staff plans to be in full attendance to usher in the news. Many of you have asked us, "Will Pathfinder/Modules/Paizo/etc switch to 4th edition?" Our response is this: We haven't seen 4th Edition, but we feel that we have a good gauge of our fan base and if we think it's something they will like and support then it's something we will like and support. We always take our readers' and fans' feedback seriously and we'll take feedback on this potential transition doubly so. We hope to have more information soon and we'll let everyone know the moment we've come to a decision.

Sounds good to me. They'll give the fans what we want. Whatever that turns out to be :)

Dark Archive

A glimpse for those still not able to see anything.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Grindor wrote:
Thammuz wrote:
Any announcement by Eric and James upcoming on how 4ed will impact Pathfinder?

This is from the latest blog post:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Of course, the con is buzzing about the Wizards announcement to take place at 6:30 P.M. Eastern tonight. We're all aware by now that they're announcing 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons tonight and the Paizo staff plans to be in full attendance to usher in the news. Many of you have asked us, "Will Pathfinder/Modules/Paizo/etc switch to 4th edition?" Our response is this: We haven't seen 4th Edition, but we feel that we have a good gauge of our fan base and if we think it's something they will like and support then it's something we will like and support. We always take our readers' and fans' feedback seriously and we'll take feedback on this potential transition doubly so. We hope to have more information soon and we'll let everyone know the moment we've come to a decision.

Frost and Alvarez were a couple of the people I spoke to at the con and that's pretty much what they said then. Alvarez mentioned that Erik Mona was in a 4e panel/discussion at that very time (around noon Indy time, I still don't know if we're EST or EDT now dammit :( )

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I made a screenshot from the start page and postet it to a german board:

Here

edit: oh, Acev beat me to it ;)


Acev wrote:
A glimpse for those still not able to see anything.

Hey, thanks :)

Wow, that beholder is cool.

Even though I'm able to access the site, the extra images and stuff like that haven't loaded for me. Ah well, it's the text that is most important.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Phazzar wrote:

So Paizo did know?

James Jacobs and Nicholas Logue. Plus others, probably.

Well, I guess those outraged about WotC being misleading can add Paizo to their hit list.


Whew, that "Playtest" report sure did give us a good feel of what the new rules are like didn't it? /sarcasm


Eltanin wrote:
Whew, that "Playtest" report sure did give us a good feel of what the new rules are like didn't it? /sarcasm

Yeah, I know... I read it twice to see if I'd missed anything and only decided to post it because others might want access to it... it's fairly vague and not very 4esque.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

It was a giant count down to their servers crashing!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

LMAO!!! So it would seem.

Yeah, this is really making me change my tune...making computers an integral part of D&D will really simplify things for us all. I don't why I ever doubted...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sebastian wrote:
Well, I guess those outraged about WotC being misleading can add Paizo to their hit list.

Nay. Even if they knew they weren't allowed to say anything. WotC mislead and they had to follow ;)


All this 4th Edition stuff is reminding me of why I despise Microsoft...

That marketer/capitalist need to force your product on people at regular intervals. Isn't it enough that we keep buying their stupid expansion books. But no, now we will have to buy a whole new edition of core books and start all over again...smells like the "Games for Windows" initiative that is driving gamers to buy bigger and better computer hardware.

I have a screaming fast PC and after running games on that box and comparing it side by side with my previous box, I'm disappointed. I hope to God that 4th Edition doesn't leave me with the same "well that was a waste of money" feeling.

I guess I just don't see what the need is for a 4th Edition.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Sornyth the Dark wrote:

All this 4th Edition stuff is reminding me of why I despise Microsoft...

That marketer/capitalist need to force your product on people at regular intervals. Isn't it enough that we keep buying their stupid expansion books. But no, now we will have to buy a whole new edition of core books and start all over again...smells like the "Games for Windows" initiative that is driving gamers to buy bigger and better computer hardware.

I have a screaming fast PC and after running games on that box and comparing it side by side with my previous box, I'm disappointed. I hope to God that 4th Edition doesn't leave me with the same "well that was a waste of money" feeling.

I guess I just don't see what the need is for a 4th Edition.

at least your evening game won't crash if you try something funky :)


anyone, to get this stupid script to recognize a quote bracket wrote:
Many fighters will opt for swords. Swords have the most flexible assortment of powers.

Swords with powers? Anyone notice they didn't say the word 'magical' in that phrase? If they're going to give a normal longsword some kind of power, what dangling shred of sanity I have left will snap like a longsword prying a stone door open.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Varl wrote:
Swords with powers? Anyone notice they didn't say the word 'magical' in that phrase? If they're going to give a normal longsword some kind of power, what dangling shred of sanity I have left will snap like a longsword prying a stone door open.

I was thinking more along the lines of manuevers/abilities. Kinda like how in previous editions different armors were more/less effective against certain types of damage or how it's easier to hamstring someone per se with a sword as opposed to a club.

Dark Archive

Varl wrote:


Swords with powers? Anyone notice they didn't say the word 'magical' in that phrase? If they're going to give a normal longsword some kind of power, what dangling shred of sanity I have left will snap like a longsword prying a stone door open.

Looks more like a feat to me. Special feats tied to specific weapons.

Liberty's Edge

When did the Mayans predict 4ed. would come out?

Did Nostradamus make any predictions?

Scarab Sages

I bet by 'powers' they mean manuevers...

Maybe their going Iron Heroes route... or even using schticks like Feng Shui.


I actually managed to get into the Design and Development section, with the Class article.
Don't know if anybody has any luck with accessing the Wizards image server, but I thought I'd throw this one out there. It's from the article:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/4e/20070816b_drdd_1full.jpg
And here's a screenshot I took of the article.
As you can see, not all of the images on the page was able to load.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

If you haven't already done so, I'd go to enworld and read what Morris posted. Some highlights:

-PHB goes from 1-30th level
-Gets rid of large number of magic items
-PHB will be for "arcane, divine and martial" classes. Rogue is a martial class. Implies that new books will be for new class types (the obvious one being psion)
-Characters get new abilities at each level

Worth checking out. Unless, as Ben Folds would say:

I know it's not your thing to care
I know it's cool to be so bored
I sucks me in
when you're aloof
It sucks me in, it sucks it works
I guess it's cool to be alone

Dark Archive

Heathansson wrote:

When did the Mayans predict 4ed. would come out?

Hah!! I told the scholars the snake in the shape of an ampersand stood for 4e d&d but they wouldn't listen. Well who's laughing now Pearson? WHO?

Scarab Sages

...and after reading the 4e stuff I'm underfizzled.
3.5 is dead.
Long live Pathfinder!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Grindor wrote:
Thammuz wrote:
Any announcement by Eric and James upcoming on how 4ed will impact Pathfinder?

This is from the latest blog post:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Of course, the con is buzzing about the Wizards announcement to take place at 6:30 P.M. Eastern tonight. We're all aware by now that they're announcing 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons tonight and the Paizo staff plans to be in full attendance to usher in the news. Many of you have asked us, "Will Pathfinder/Modules/Paizo/etc switch to 4th edition?" Our response is this: We haven't seen 4th Edition, but we feel that we have a good gauge of our fan base and if we think it's something they will like and support then it's something we will like and support. We always take our readers' and fans' feedback seriously and we'll take feedback on this potential transition doubly so. We hope to have more information soon and we'll let everyone know the moment we've come to a decision.
Sounds good to me. They'll give the fans what we want. Whatever that turns out to be :)

Well they can put me in the 'stick with 3.x catagory


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Do you have a quick link to the relevant EnWorld posting?


Sebastian wrote:
Phazzar wrote:

So Paizo did know?

James Jacobs and Nicholas Logue. Plus others, probably.

Well, I guess those outraged about WotC being misleading can add Paizo to their hit list.

Not at all.

There is a difference between WoTC "assuring" us that they are not trying to rape our wallets until much later...

And Paizo neither confirming nor denying that statement.

On top of that, Paizo may not have been privy to the exact timeline involved. They might be as shocked at the timeframe as some of us are.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Paul Wilson wrote:
Do you have a quick link to the relevant EnWorld posting?

www.enworld.org

Right on the front page, scroll down a little.


Great, now I can't even open up ENWorld either... has da whole intarweb run out of tubes?

Scarab Sages

Sebastian wrote:
If you haven't already done so, I'd go to enworld and read what Morris posted.

...link?


Sebastian wrote:

If you haven't already done so, I'd go to enworld and read what Morris posted. Some highlights:

-PHB goes from 1-30th level
-Gets rid of large number of magic items
-PHB will be for "arcane, divine and martial" classes. Rogue is a martial class. Implies that new books will be for new class types (the obvious one being psion)
-Characters get new abilities at each level

Interesting stuff. 30th, ey? Hmm...

After getting into the Wizards site when others couldn't, my Internet seems to have had enough and has gone on strike for all 4e-related websites. I'll keep trying though. EDIT: Oh good, it's not just me.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

fray wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
If you haven't already done so, I'd go to enworld and read what Morris posted.
...link?

www.enworld.org

But it looks like its down...

and, on an unrelated note to enworld being down


dance dance dance


I'm with a few others on this one:

I'm happy with this news, I would've spent the money on books anyway. besides, if it really does stink I will simply buy the old 3.5 books off of ebay for a fraction of what I'd pay now, it's actually a win-win.

Aso, if they really have been playtesting starting in 2005 I am not that concerned about the quality, something worked on for 3-4 years by the time of it's release can't be that terrible. Even if it is I'm shure it will have some harvestable material *pulls out home-rule surgery kit*

Scarab Sages

enworld's tubes are clogged too...

Way to go Sebastian! ;)


Hmmm, two posts already on this page that I can't see... It's a conspiracy I tell you!!!

Anyway, this from Wizards.com:

We're Experiencing Technical Difficulties
Unfortunately, due to an extremely high load on our web servers, we have been unable to bring you our normal web content. We apologize for the inconvenience and ask that you please try again in a few hours! Our technical team is aware of the problem and working on it.
Thank you for your patience!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

fray wrote:

enworld's tubes are clogged too...

Way to go Sebastian! ;)

Damn. I almost copy pasted and then thought "nah, I shouldn't steal EnWorld's scoop." I guess in this case the news needs to be widely distributed so as not to crash any one website.

Edit: You know what I bet it is - they posted some one page pdfs about 4e on the site. Nothing really exciting, but if everyone is trying to download those, well...

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