Retitle this thread "5 pieces of advice that the Pathfinder boards tried to teach me but I refused to listen to" and you'd be more accurate.
Anything the message boards say *can* be wrong, and there are very few *strictly* better choices you can make in this game. However...
When people say rogues are weak, they're right.
It's not universally true, but pointing that out isn't a revelation.
You're absolutely right. I don't know why, but the developers do all kinds of weird junk with martial characters that makes ZERO sense (which is gross considering how underpowered they are in this system).
Forcing you to pay a feat tax to use your iconic ability... Martials NEED feats to function, and making you spend 1/5 of your non-bonus feats to turn on a class feature shouldn't be defended by anyone, in my mind.
I will say that the archetype is a decent dip for things like monk or even white haired witch, but I don't agree with designing an archetype to be a 2 level dip.
I'm sad to say I don't know the math well enough to contribute, but I do want to say: Guys, I think he KNOWS two-weapon fighting is considered inferior. That's why he's asking for assistance. Instead of continuing to parrot the same lines over and over, try to give more constructive feedback into how to improve his build.
I do believe the highest DPS in the game involves multiple guns, so the above poster citing two pistols is absolutely correct.
Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't it be easier to say something akin to "when making an opportunistic strike, the rogue treats his BAB as equal to his class levels in rogue." and the math works out the same? It also lets you format the level up chart to say Opportunist Strike +2 to indicate the bonus damage from using this ability.
Allow this feat, but there's many other options too. Instead, you could give every player Weapon Finesse for free (still requiring other feats for damage) or you could even go full 5e DND and give everyone dex to hit and damage for free with light or finesse weapons only. Neither are gamebreaking.
Honestly, casters rule this game so any method that enables more flexibility to martials in their builds should be ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED.
I understand it's slightly outside the scope of what you've already done (which is really awesome by the way), but I always have trouble finding which polymorph build/class entry is right for me. For example, I know arcanists get good features for polymorphing, but doesn't the terrible BAB hurt them too much?
I don't think anyone's made a guide that deals with which classes gets access to what spells or abilities and their relative strengths and weaknesses, so that's what I'd like honestly. Just my thoughts.
Throwing this out there, because it infuriates me specifically...
Haste is a 2nd level summoner spell.
Things like this are so backwards that it makes me want to slap whoever designed that class. There's many instances of Summoners getting crazy good spells far above the casting curve, with many of them having no real thematic justification. Of course, keep in mind this is in ADDITION to gaining a pet which will invalidate any tier 5 class without much effort. The class is a mess, and even the developers are aware.
I think this idea is solid BUT requires a comprehensive overhaul to work. The issue is that there appears to be a lack of a direction. If you want spells to fumble, you first have to figure out why or what makes them fumble and then build around that. For example... what about creating a system where casting spells in quick succession increases the chance of fizzle? The first spell cast doesn't have penalties, but if you cast again on the next round there's a slight failure chance. Kind of like exhaustion.
I do want to point out that everyone who is saying things like "Don't punish a class doing what it does" or things like "Failure isn't fun." The irony is that this system is pathfinder, and there are high level fighters and rogues. When the summoner can perform any Tier 5 classes role better than they do, the discussion of nerfs should never be immediately tabled.
Ok, here's a couple of notes:
Warp has an X per day requirement and an inertia cost. That seems super counterintuitive, allowing you to divide movement but then making you pay from a limited pool to make those divisions. Also 5ft as a standard action at level 1? That's really bad. It would be a better design to make it start at a higher level but give you more distance. You also say +5ft per phase level but there's no indication of what that means.
Your inertia pool lets you gain a 5-foot step as a swift action, but 5-foot steps don't provoke, making the rest of that line confusing.
Other stuff seems fine, but I really dislike the general flavor of the class. It feels very sci-fi, and because of that I'd never allow it in any of my games. Make of that what you will.
This sounds pretty lame, because you are just casting acid splash forever? Also, it doesn't solve the problem because broken spells and combinations still exist.
You still have the standard wizard spell pool scaling from 1 to 9 that you can call on. You get something like four level 1 spells, three level 2, 3, and 4 spells, two level 5, 6, and 7 spells, and one level 8 and 9 spell at 20 (I think). And you have more than just acid spray as cantrips. Cantrips are just your martial equivalent "I hit the monster" attacks. I mean, don't fighters just cast "attack" forever? Not every turn has to be a long drawn out decision of which resource to spend... Also keep in mind this suggestion was never meant to cripple casters or fix the whole game. In fact, 5E casters are still the best (but not by the huge margin that is pathfinder). Implementing a 5E system would be miles simpler and more balanced than going through every pathfinder spell with a fine toothed comb.
Honestly? Consider designing a feature that's Use Magic Device 2.0 and give it to the rogues. Maybe give them 1/2 level to UMD checks with an additional ability. Maybe faster than normal activation? Maybe allow them to freely activate items they've activated before? Maybe allow them to activate items without expending charges or use scrolls without wasting the spell a few times per day.
If rogues are the best item activators, they'll have a distinct niche in mid and high tier play. In fact, a change like this would almost definitely bump them into tier 3 automatically.
Well, perhaps that would need some adjustments too, but I'd rather adapt crafting rules to allow any characters with sufficiently high skill in a relevant craft to be able to create magic items generally. Once you become a legendary craftsman, things you create start to come to life... so to speak.
I think if you followed 5E's example you'd have a better game.
First, give casters cantrip spells that scale better at higher levels.
These two things alone will help alleviate the wizard adventuring clock and reduce the options casters will have at their disposal.
Maybe people argue that it shouldn't work versus concealment through intent, but by RAW it does.
Honestly, neither class SHOULD have to worry about that. People get SO caught on realism and physics in game mechanics, they miss the big picture. Wizards will rule pathfinder until the day that we throw away this double standard and let martial classes do improbable things without getting punished.
Just a Guess wrote:
concealment prevents precision damage. But there is a feat to get around that.
Sneak attack not working against concealment is a feature of the rogue, not a feature of concealment. If you check the SRD on concealment, you'll notice there's no text that tells you precision damage is not effective. You'll only find that on the rogue's sneak attack feature.
Swashbucklers don't lose precise strike against concealment.
AND THANK GOD. If that was the case, Swashbuckler would almost be tier 6. Almost.
Slayer begs for a way to be truly meaningful outside combat.
You said that if humans weren't dominant in the setting, the bonus feat wasn't good enough. You're quite obviously saying that you want the mechanics of the game to be imbalanced to make the setting make sense. You also say that it doesn't make sense for demi-humans racial mechanics to be better than humans. If you meant otherwise, that's totally fine, but you were pretty clear you wanted humans to be stronger mechanically in your original post.
Humans are almost always the best or tied for best race for a particular class. If we're going by relative power, yes. Human bonus feat is too good. Feats are super important in pathfinder, and you rarely get enough of them. Most builds rely on human bonus feat to survive the numerous taxes in this game.
From a story perspective, I disagree with the poster above who says that humans SHOULD dominate mechanically because they dominate culturally in pathfinder. That's such a bad game design mentality, it actually hurts me.
All this being said, I don't think it needs a change. I think it's more of a result of other factors in the rules system.
At level 20, it's going to add up. On the table there, treat the nodachi as the elven curve blade (statistically the same, except that the nodachi also has brace) and you'll see the level 12 fighter get 7 extra damage. Imagine that damage as a level 20 barbarian charging with pounce. I mean, if you're talking flavor, I prefer weapons with higher crit rates, because it they trigger critical feats and effects more often and ends up being more exciting to play because you'll see flashier numbers more. When your reliable damage is 1.5 extra on an average hit, it's really not that impressive.
I mean, if you really want to use greatsword you can. You asked for numbers and proof and it's here. Do with it what you will.
That's nice, but it doesn't account for base damage. The average of d10 is 5.5, while the average of 2d6 is 7. Those crits would have to be something REALLY impressive to overcome that discrepancy.
Pardon my really fast math, if you can expect to get the damage bonus up to +20, you're looking at 25.5 for the nodachi and 27 for the greatsword right? Now consider the effect of keen on these two weapons. Nodachi has a 30% chance to crit (upping dps by 7.65) and the Greatsword has a 20% chance to crit (upping dps by 5.4) giving you a total of 33.15 for the nodachi, and 32.4 for the greatsword.
At level 20, you're getting WAAAAY more than +20 to damage. I mean, if you've got +6 strength mod while raging and power attack, you'll have at least +12 at level 1.
If you dip Monk I believe you're allowed by RAW to still attack with IUA with Precise Strike. Hamatulatsu Strike will make your fists piercing and thus benefit from your swashbuckler features, as well as give you a nice critical effect which has synergy with your level 5 feature. Sword and fist style!
Funny that you say that, but on average dice rolls your point buy with this method is going to be above 50. So if you're aiming for something below 30ptbuy this is definitely NOT the way to do this. If you did 10+1d6, reroll 1 once you'll have around 25-28 average, but with the chance of still getting above 50ptbuy through sheer luck.
I recommend prebuilt arrays, or if you like rolling there's a cool system I saw once.
You start with 6 in every stat, then roll 6d6. Write down the result of each dice and then assign those to an ability score. Then, take the inverse of each dice roll you made (flip the dice, they should add up to 7) and you can put those bonuses in another stat.
If the player didn't agree to this rolling method, then of course the DM is in the wrong and can easily rectify this by giving a 15 or 20 pointbuy redo on the character. Do NOT try to force a player to play something they don't want to play.
If the player DID agree to this rolling method and is now throwing a tantrum, the DM should think carefully whether he should set a precedent for this player to abuse his kindness before letting the player redo. I've seen plenty of players get in the habit of whining until the DM caves on something, and if it becomes a habit, it will ruin a game much faster than if the DM put his foot down.
Solutions are better than pontification so try asking YOUR players instead of us. If there's a player who is also playing subpar stats and would object to another player getting bailed, you want to make sure this becomes known before you have him reroll. Maybe now you have two rerolls on your hands. Or maybe everyone is fine with it. Maybe they have a different solution, like you could swap 2 stats or reroll one ability score. Ask them.
I think he has a point about the bonuses being too steep, because not every adventuring day lasts 4 encounters. If yours takes two, at level twenty you're giving the party +20 to all stats, healing a ton of ability damage and giving 50% fortification for 1 minute. That's ABSOLUTELY INSANE, and deserves attention.
If I were you, I'd stop looking at the numbers and focus on the utility.
The players chose to do something in a different way, and it didn't work out for him. He got 44 pt buy and he's not happy?
Listen, I understand that having fun is the point of the game, but that doesn't mean the DM bends over backwards every time something doesn't go a players way. The player AGREED to this rolling method by vote, then after getting BLESSED by the dice gods changed his mind. If a player gets unlucky because of a roll or a mistake, whining about it for multiple sessions is not acceptable.
If I was a DM, I'd give him the choice of 15pt buy redo if he doesn't want his array. That's more than fair.
I've been told elsewhere that "moving and attacking will fall behind because you don't get iteratives and you'll always be provoking."
So here's my response. It's fun and creative, but probably controversial.
EDIT: I might reword it to make this ability unusable during turns where you full attack, as the synergy with full attack > opportune parry and riposte might be much.
I've updated the Moving Target ability slightly.
This is due to the fact that you're going to provoke a ton with this archetype, acrobatics dc's are CRAZY high. This ability would give an additional +6 on them by level 20, which should be helpful.
I don't really like the bonus to CMD on Battle Fortitude, but I'm not sure if I did something like... +2 to fortitude and fear saving throws would be too strong.
I've been working on an archetype for swashbucklers that emphasizes mobility and speed in a way I feel the base class doesn't already have. I tied it together with elements of the 3.X class of the same name. Be aware that I do intend for this archetype to be generally a bit stronger than the base swashbuckler kit, but without going to far overboard. In some ways, I think this archetype can be a bit of a hotfix to the class in general. I want some critique and suggestions, specifically on the following:
Skirmishing Strike (Ex): Unlike other Swashbucklers, a scout uses her momentum to deliver deadly attacks to her foes. This deed acts like Precise Strike, except that to use this deed, a scout must have moved at least 10ft from where she ended her last turn, and may attack with her other hand. While using Two-Weapon Fighting, the scout instead adds only 1/2 her swashbuckler level to damage using this deed. She still cannot use a shield other than a buckler. This ability alters Precise Strike.
Acrobatic Assault (Ex): At 15th level, the scout can spend 1 panache point to make an acrobatic assault as a full round action. The scout moves up to her speed and at any point during this movement, she can stop moving and immediately make a melee attack against each enemy adjacent to her. For each enemy she hits, she can force that enemy to clumsily attack one of its allies. Each creature hit by the scout must take an opportunity attack (if available) against one of its allies within reach. The scout’s movement with this deed provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This deed replaces Dizzying Defense.
The new Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler archetype is really cool, but it does this really odd thing:
You get finesse with scimitar if you don't use a shield, and then gives you free dex to damage... at level four. No level 1 characters can afford to wait 3 levels for this, so you're either awful at killing things for the first part of the campaign, or you're taking slashing grace anyways to retrain away at level four (if the DM allows it).
It's not super underpowered, but it's just... so... awkward.
I'll also dive in here and say Daring Champion is a solid archetype that's worth considering. As far as damage goes, they're up there with chargers (although not as mobile) if you're okay with losing your mount. They're great for Charisma, and they're primarily a dexterity class. However, it's not for everyone and I think it would radically change the character concept you've started on. Just two cents.
Otherwise, you can look up the Golden Legionnaire prestige class if you want to be a big damn hero, and they would work great for someone who wants to play the king.
Daring Champion Cavaliers
All the draws of a swashbuckler, plus more!
Opportune Parry & Riposte doesn't play well with power attack... but it sure does play well with Risky Striker! Mix that with Combat Reflexes and you've got a lot of parry attempts in a pinch. Add in the Helpful trait and Bodyguard, and you're a great defender too! That's not all! You're also eligible for 2x level to damage with challenge and precise strike on a race with +1 to attack rolls.
Now here's where it starts getting good;
Halfling Cavalier favored class bonus is +1/2 levels damage on opportunity attacks, which is great because you're already going to grab combat reflexes right? However, how would you like to give your whole party Outflank, Paired Opportunists, and Broken Wing Gambit using tactician? You're suddenly making crazy amounts of attacks off-turn too, each benefits from precise strike and challenge as well!
Offense not your thing? How about the deed Dizzying Defense combined with Cautious Fighter + Blundering Defense? Dizzying Defense drops the penalty for fighting defensively to -2 for +4 AC, increased to +6 from CF, increased to +9 by blundering defense giving an additional +4AC to your adjacent allies too! Even crazier; you can spend a panache point to fight defensively as a swift action! AND THIS ALL COMES 4 LEVELS EARLIER THAN SWASHBUCKLER!
This combination is a goldmine, and this isn't even touching choice of orders... I'm pretty sure Halfling is the PREMIER Daring Champion race.
Ive decided to take on the dedicated tank/healer and I'm fond of paladins so that was an easy choice.
Well, if you're looking for a "tank" as an MMO archetype, you're going to want ways to encourage enemies to come after you instead of your ally.
To this end, I'd incorporate the following things:
Saving shield is one of the best "tank" feats in the game for its ability to let you sponge attacks for your allies, but this path is feat intensive. Also, if you're going halfling you can take the feats Cautious Fighter, Blundering Defense, and Crane Style to further increase your ability to protect your allies. All this said, if you're looking just to be a "tank" as in HUGE HP blob on the battlefield, you can probably ignore this post and go Power Attack and go generic.
Just what the thread title says!
I'm looking for a group of players in the southern New Hampshire area, hopefully within 30 minutes of Nashua to play with. I'm already a part of two groups, but our games are full and I'm looking to get outside the DM screen for a bit and play in a game. I'm looking for a game run in the Pathfinder RPG system or using one of the Paizo adventure paths. I can't play in Rise of the Runelords unless no one minds me having intimate knowledge of the early chapters, but I could be persuaded into running a RotR campaign if I like the group. I'm 21 years old, and I'm really looking for something a bit more serious.
If you need to E-mail me, my address is firstname.lastname@example.org, or you can reply to this thread! Message me if you have any questions, thanks!