Nathanial321's page

Target armor or shield touched
It says you must touch it. I agree with Dragonchess Player that the item must be physical to be touched. If one can touch a non-physical item then by all means it should be considered a valid target.

I am playing with a magus bladebound half-orc with an heirloom weapon that is a falchion. I chose the +1 bonus to opp attacks. When the character reaches level three, the heirloom weapon will become my bladebound weapon.

Check out this link to answer the original question. The answer should suffice.

Go to http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/16678/action-required-for-infiltrato r-ranger-power.
A space seems to be added in the link, so just check for that.

Nathanial321 wrote:
Hi James,

The topic is mixing natural attacks, unarmed attacks, and weapon attacks. My gamemaster thinks that it would be unbalanced to let my level 2 catfolk character, which has the feats: two-weapon fighting and improved unarmed strike, make more than two attacks.

So, which of the following are legal mixtures of attacks? Let's go with BAB +5, feats: two-weapon fighting, and improved unarmed strike.

1) headbutt (+3) (primary), headbutt (+3) (off-hand), claw (0) (additional natural attack), claw (0) (additional natural attack)

2) longsword (+3) (primary), headbutt (+3) (off-hand), claw (0) (additional natural attack)

Very respectfully,

Nathanial

James Jacobs wrote:
As for being "unbalanced," allowing any PC race to have a natural attack is inherently unbalanced, since none of the core races have that option. A GM who's worried about that level of balance needs to not allow PCs of races who get natural attacks.

Unless you have two heads, I wouldn't allow an "off-hand" headbut when your primary attack is a headbutt. The whole point of an off-hand attack is that you're using a second limb in addition to the primary limb to make an additional attack.

As a result, I'd say that #1 above is illegal, but #2 is not.

It IS certainly a sticky issue, mixing unarmed strikes with natural attacks—the game isn't really made to take that type of fighting style into account since none of the core races have natural attacks, and no monsters who have natural attacks ever bother with unarmed strikes. It DOES kind of reek of "attack scrounging" which is kinda cheesy in my opinion...

But it's certainly an issue that could serve well being posted over in the rules forums so folks can FAQ it.

Nathanial wrote:
Also what about this option?
3) Heabutt (+3) (Primary), Kick (-2) (Secondary), Claw (0) (Additional Attack), Claw (0) (Additional Attack)

Hi James,

It has been a little while since I last asked you some questions. Well, I have some questions for you, alas. First, I saw your name in the credits for The Hobbit as creative consultant. Is this true?

Now, for the harder questions. I have been looking on the rules forums and at different locations, and it seems that my gamemaster's opinions seem to line up with the book, but everyone on the messageboards are saying otherwise.

The topic is mixing natural attacks, unarmed attacks, and weapon attacks. My gamemaster thinks that it would be unbalanced to let my level 2 catfolk character, which has the feats: two-weapon fighting and improved unarmed strike, make more than two attacks.

So, which of the following are legal mixtures of attacks? Let's go with BAB +5, feats: two-weapon fighting, and improved unarmed strike.

1) headbutt (+3) (primary), headbutt (+3) (off-hand), claw (0) (additional natural attack), claw (0) (additional natural attack)

2) longsword (+3) (primary), headbutt (+3) (off-hand), claw (0) (additional natural attack)

Very respectfully,

Nathanial

Hi James,

Got it. That last part really helped: the reach quality. I will keep that in mind from now on. So, would you be afraid of a t-rex with a longer reach with its arms or with functional wings?

Very respectfully,

Nathanial Isaacson

Hi James,

Ok. I think I mostly understand. Melee weapons with chains do melee reach attacks, such as the kusarigama or spiked chain. However, a weapon that is on a cord for the purpose of pulling a thrown weapon back, such as an aklys, would be considered a melee weapon that can be thrown; therefore, the attack is a range attack and not a melee reach attack despite the fact it has an attached cord. Am I understanding this correctly now? The question I have to resolve is how to finish building the character. Well thank you for your help again.

Very respectfully,

Nathanial Isaacson

Hi James,

A last question regarding aklyses, though I shouldn't be using it, but I will since I have spent the gold for the MW part. The aklys has damage d6 (small)/d8 (medium). An aklys has a maximum range of 20 feet, allowing the user to retrieve the thrown aklys as a move action. The hook allows you to make trip attacks at range.

Regarding the question I posed earlier about using it as a club seemed to include things that I did not understand, so I think I asked the question in a bad way, though I did learn from your explanations. 2) Can I use the damage part of the aklys at close range and at long range? I ask, because a player in the group states my character cannot attack at close range with the aklys where I think my character should and my GM does not know how to call it.

Regarding where your were confused about my calling the aklys cord an aklys chain, I did mean the cord that is held or attached to the wrist. Thank you again for all of your help.

Very respectfully,

Nathanial Isaacson

Nathanial321 wrote:

Q1) If dinosaur were to be respelled as dinosaurus, would the plural version--dinosaurs--be changed to dinosauri?

Q2) What is the plural form of aklys?
Q3) Have any of your characters ever used the aklys?
Q4a) Have you ever been to a Medieval Times show?
Q4b) If you did go, did you enjoy the weapon fighting show, the storyline, neither, or both?
Q5) What is your most creative weapon that you have created?
Q6) Have you ever played and leveled a character from level one all the way up to level twenty?
Q7a) What is your favorite Pathfinder melee weapon?
Q7b) Why is it your favorite melee weapon?
Q7c) Do you own that weapon?

Q1) I guess so, but that would be silly. "Dinosaur" is already as perfect a word as you can have.

Q2) Aklyses.

Q3) Nope. I tend to prefer to leave aklyses in the hands of derros. There's a character coming up in the Shattered Star Adventure Path that uses them though, and she's a character I invented for Golarion, though, and she' s a half-elf, not a derro.

Q4a) No, but I've been to renaissance fairs.

Q4b) Never been.

Q5) From my homebrew, there's an urdefhan weapon the name of which I can't recall. It's basically a spear with barbs sticking out all over it, and it has a big crank at the end so that you stick it in a person and then crank it to spin the shaft and spool up all their guts on it before you yank it back out. That one never made it into print, mostly because the way damage works in the game would make statting a weapon up like that take up way too much rules.

Q6) Yes. Three times. A human druid named Ruvagog (in Jim Butler's campaign), a human cleric named Rowyn Tai'tesseril (in Julia Martin's campaign), and my favorite character Shensen (in Jason Nelson's campaign). Some of those made it higher than level 20, in fact.

Q7a) Starknife or sawtooth sabre.

Q7b) See above.

Q7c) Nope. I only own two weapons—a compound bow and a dogslicer. Actually, I guess I own a fair amount of knives as well, but those are for making sammiches...

Hi James,

"Sammiches"... nice. I've never heard sandwiches called as such until now. Also, that creative weapon that you created: WOW! That's sounds gruesome and deadly. I'll send some more questions your way once I have another rules question to ask you or some more questions I happen to think about asking you even if I do not have a rules questions. In fact, I do have a question: What is your favorite type of sammich?

Very respectfully,

Nathanial

Nathanial321 wrote:

Hi James,

It has been a couple of months since I asked about the ninja/rogue archetype question. Well, I have been playing my halfling ninja in the Pathfinder Society with a new PFS GM. I have three xp, so I am leveling up my character. In the last game, which was very fun, there were some ninja weapon questions that came up, yet we were completely unsure, so my GM told me to go find the answers. I have been looking online, yet I have been seeing conflicting answers. I thought I might ask you the questions in a general way, which may clear up lots of specific questions, and I will put in my examples of what I am using, so those specific questions, if not answered in the general question answer, can then be hopefully answered.

Setup: Ninja are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi.

Note: My character just purchased a MW Aklys before the session, where a lot of aklys questions were posed.

Aklys: Under exotic light melee section. First half of the flavor text, which affected the controversial questions: The aklys is a hooked throwing club with a 20-foot cord attached.

The category states exotic light melee weapon. The flavor states it is a hooked THROWING club. Q1) Can I use the club to fight with it in melee against someone next to me? Q2) When I attack an enemy at range with the club, whether I am tripping or hitting them, is it a melee reach attack or range attack? Q3) Can I trip with the chain part?

I want to use TWF feat from the level 2 talent. So, here are TWF feat questions for the aklys and kusarigama weapons.

Q4a) Can I attack with the club in one hand and trip with the chain? Q4b) If I can, then can I attack with the club to X feet and the chain to Y feet, where X and Y equal twenty, i.e. 10 feet for club and 10 feet for chain?

Q5) Can I attack two aklys, one in each hand?

Kusarigama question: Q6) When I attack an enemy at range with the kusarigama's

...

Hi James,

Thank you very much. I see what you mean about that type of combination being for a homebrew game instead of a PFS game. I'll keep that in mind in the future. Regarding your answers, thank you for helping me out with those answers. You cleared up my questions.

Very respectfully,

Nathanial Isaacson

Hi James,

Since I asked you rules questions, I thought it would only be fair to keep the message board balanced by asking you "let's pick on JamesJacobs" questions.

Q1) If dinosaur were to be respelled as dinosaurus, would the plural version--dinosaurs--be changed to dinosauri?
Q2) What is the plural form of aklys?
Q3) Have any of your characters ever used the aklys?
Q4a) Have you ever been to a Medieval Times show?
Q4b) If you did go, did you enjoy the weapon fighting show, the storyline, neither, or both?
Q5) What is your most creative weapon that you have created?
Q6) Have you ever played and leveled a character from level one all the way up to level twenty?
Q7a) What is your favorite Pathfinder melee weapon?
Q7b) Why is it your favorite melee weapon?
Q7c) Do you own that weapon?

I hope these are some fun questions that you will enjoy contemplating and answering. Thank you for being such a cool creative director by creating this forum, maintaining this forum, and answering the question on this forum.

Very respectfully,

Nathanial

Hi James,

It has been a couple of months since I asked about the ninja/rogue archetype question. Well, I have been playing my halfling ninja in the Pathfinder Society with a new PFS GM. I have three xp, so I am leveling up my character. In the last game, which was very fun, there were some ninja weapon questions that came up, yet we were completely unsure, so my GM told me to go find the answers. I have been looking online, yet I have been seeing conflicting answers. I thought I might ask you the questions in a general way, which may clear up lots of specific questions, and I will put in my examples of what I am using, so those specific questions, if not answered in the general question answer, can then be hopefully answered.

Setup: Ninja are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi.

Note: My character just purchased a MW Aklys before the session, where a lot of aklys questions were posed.

Aklys: Under exotic light melee section. First half of the flavor text, which affected the controversial questions: The aklys is a hooked throwing club with a 20-foot cord attached.

The category states exotic light melee weapon. The flavor states it is a hooked THROWING club. Q1) Can I use the club to fight with it in melee against someone next to me? Q2) When I attack an enemy at range with the club, whether I am tripping or hitting them, is it a melee reach attack or range attack? Q3) Can I trip with the chain part?

I want to use TWF feat from the level 2 talent. So, here are TWF feat questions for the aklys and kusarigama weapons.

Q4a) Can I attack with the club in one hand and trip with the chain? Q4b) If I can, then can I attack with the club to X feet and the chain to Y feet, where X and Y equal twenty, i.e. 10 feet for club and 10 feet for chain?

Q5) Can I attack two aklys, one in each hand?

Kusarigama question: Q6) When I attack an enemy at range with the kusarigama's sickle, is it a melee reach attack or range attack?

Here is an overall encompassing question: Q7a) If I am attacking with a weapon that is on a chain, such as the "hooked throwing club" on an aklys, a sickle on a kusarigama, a weighted ball at the end of a chain such as the one on a kusarigama, the spikes on a spiked chain, or any other weapon as these examples where one holds onto the chain, then is the attack considered a melee reach attack, a range attack, or does it depend? Q7b) If it does depend, does it depend on the length of the cord, for example an aklys has 20 feet of length and the kusarigama has 10 feet of length? Q7c) Or does it depend on a case-by-case situation?

I realize it is a lot, so I tried to make it as short and simple as possible. I appreciate any help with these questions.

Very respectfully,

Nathanial

Nathanial321 wrote:

...since I was the one asking and James Jacobs did the answering, do I need to contact someone, either on the Paizo site or the http://www.d20pfsrd.com site or both, to show that an official answer has been posted as a polite way to show them that it has been posted, so that they can then decide to post it onto the errata page or http://www.d20pfsrd.com page or both?

Until something is officially posted in the FAQ or released in an errata we don't consider it "official", no offense to James of course. In cases like this we typically add "editors notes' boxes explaining it and provide a link to the forum post. I'm posting via phone right now so will have to wait till later tonight to add the info to the site, unless of course one of the others gets to it first.

Oh, I see. So, if there is an statement that would be considered an editor's note, do you have a way for members to tell you about it, or should they just not do anything and let

Now, to an off-topic, yet very important, question: How many teeth does an average T-Rex have?

Hi James,

Thank you for that all of your help. I will definitely use the FAQ tab in the future. Thank you for answering my question earlier, so I could get on with making my PFS character. I was really happy to receive an answer right away, and I am VERY happy with the positive response. Lastly, thank you for having a thread like this and for regularly checking up on it. Keep up the good work.

Very respectfully,

Nathanial

I have another question or two. What is the relationship between Paizo and the website: http://www.d20pfsrd.com? The second question: If there is an official answer that is given, such as the one given above by James Jacobs about the alternate class/archetype topic, what happens from there? Does someone copy and paste it into an errata with the actual quote as the source and put it on the Paizo errata site or http://www.d20pfsrd.com site or both? Lastly, since I was the one asking and James Jacobs did the answering, do I need to do anything, such as email someone, either on the Paizo site or the http://www.d20pfsrd.com site or both, to show that an official answer has been posted as a polite way to show them that it has been posted, so that they can then decide to post it onto the errata page or http://www.d20pfsrd.com page or both?

So, I need to edit my question with this that I have learned:

With this being the case and being understood, I still pose the questions with the understanding of the quote from the previous paragraph. Also, should I not ask any questions related to the other website on Paizo's website or in this thread or both?

I have another question or two. What is the relationship between Paizo and the website: http://www.d20pfsrd.com? The second question: If there is an official answer that is given, such as the one given above by James Jacobs about the alternate class/archetype topic, what happens from there? Does someone copy and paste it into an errata with the actual quote as the source and put it on the Paizo errata site or http://www.d20pfsrd.com site or both? Lastly, since I was the one asking and James Jacobs did the answering, do I need to do anything, such as email someone, either on the Paizo site or the http://www.d20pfsrd.com site or both, to show that an official answer has been posted as a polite way to show them that it has been posted, so that they can then decide to post it onto the errata page or http://www.d20pfsrd.com page or both?

WRoy wrote:

I remember seeing commentary somewhere (which I can't find) that alternate classes are essentially giant archetypes, so by that definition combining the two would be a legal application of two archetypes. Has Mark or Mike ever directly weighed in on this? I'm assuming the answer is no for PFS, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

That's poster commentary and unfounded one. If the alternate classes were archetypes they'd be listed so, like the Anti-Paladin. But they're not... they're complete and separate classes.

I got the official answer from James Jacobs at: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2u4o&page=330?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Que stions-Here#16474. I reposted the important part in this thread right before you posted this post to which I am replying.

Nathanial321 wrote:

I have two questions. First, it was suggested to me to ask the second question in this thread; however, it isn't an off-topic question, unless you consider it as an off-topic discussion compared to the fact we are in an off-topic discussion thread. So is it okay to ask a question like my second question in this thread if I need an official answer and if I can't get the answer in another thread OR is there a better thread to post it under such as an Ask James Jacobs gaming-related thread? Whew, that was a long question.

The second question is this: I am making my first society character: a halfling ninja. Can my ninja take the "Blade of the Society" trait? My GM says I need an official answer before he will accept it since I am creating it for the Pathfinder Society.

It's absolutely okay!

For the Pathfinder Society, we maintain a list of all the approved products and options. I'm not sure where "Blade of the Society" is from off the top of my head... but the way to find out would be to look at the list of approved resources for character creation for PFS.

Nathanial321 wrote:

The question everyone has been wondering is whether or not alternate classes are like archetypes in that they can use the feats, traits, etc. as the primary class even when the requirement has the primary class as a requirement as long as archetype/alternate class has the ability to utilize the feat, trait, etc? For example using the second question in my last post as an example.

Alternate classes like the antipaladin, ninja, and samurai ARE essentially archetypes. They're just archetypes for which we went through and gave you the full level advancement chart for. And artwork too! So as long as they didn't give up a class feature that is a requirement for a feat or whatever... yup... they still can take that feat/trait/thing.

I was able to get an official answer! I got it at the "Ask James Jacobs All your Qestions Here" thread at this link: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2u4o&page=330?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Que stions-Here#16474

Nathanial321 wrote:

I have two questions. First, it was suggested to me to ask the second question in this thread; however, it isn't an off-topic question, unless you consider it as an off-topic discussion compared to the fact we are in an off-topic discussion thread. So is it okay to ask a question like my second question in this thread if I need an official answer and if I can't get the answer in another thread OR is there a better thread to post it under such as an Ask James Jacobs gaming-related thread? Whew, that was a long question.

The second question is this: I am making my first society character: a halfling ninja. Can my ninja take the "Blade of the Society" trait? My GM says I need an official answer before he will accept it since I am creating it for the Pathfinder Society.

It's absolutely okay!

For the Pathfinder Society, we maintain a list of all the approved products and options. I'm not sure where "Blade of the Society" is from off the top of my head... but the way to find out would be to look at the list of approved resources for character creation for PFS.

Nathanial321 wrote:

The question everyone has been wondering is whether or not alternate classes are like archetypes in that they can use the feats, traits, etc. as the primary class even when the requirement has the primary class as a requirement as long as archetype/alternate class has the ability to utilize the feat, trait, etc? For example using the second question in my last post as an example.

Alternate classes like the antipaladin, ninja, and samurai ARE essentially archetypes. They're just archetypes for which we went through and gave you the full level advancement chart for. And artwork too! So as long as they didn't give up a class feature that is a requirement for a feat or whatever... yup... they still can take that feat/trait/thing.

I was able to get an official answer! I got it at the "Ask James Jacobs All your Qestions Here" thread at this link: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2u4o&page=330?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Que stions-Here#16474

Nathanial321 wrote:

The question everyone has been wondering is whether or not alternate classes are like archetypes in that they can use the feats, traits, etc. as the primary class even when the requirement has the primary class as a requirement as long as archetype/alternate class has the ability to utilize the feat, trait, etc? For example using the second question in my last post as an example.

Alternate classes like the antipaladin, ninja, and samurai ARE essentially archetypes. They're just archetypes for which we went through and gave you the full level advancement chart for. And artwork too! So as long as they didn't give up a class feature that is a requirement for a feat or whatever... yup... they still can take that feat/trait/thing.

Thank you VERY much!

Nathanial321 wrote:

I have two questions. First, it was suggested to me to ask the second question in this thread; however, it isn't an off-topic question, unless you consider it as an off-topic discussion compared to the fact we are in an off-topic discussion thread. So is it okay to ask a question like my second question in this thread if I need an official answer and if I can't get the answer in another thread OR is there a better thread to post it under such as an Ask James Jacobs gaming-related thread? Whew, that was a long question.

The second question is this: I am making my first society character: a halfling ninja. Can my ninja take the "Blade of the Society" trait? My GM says I need an official answer before he will accept it since I am creating it for the Pathfinder Society.

It's absolutely okay!

For the Pathfinder Society, we maintain a list of all the approved products and options. I'm not sure where "Blade of the Society" is from off the top of my head... but the way to find out would be to look at the list of approved resources for character creation for PFS.

I saw that it was an approved trait in that section. I just didn't know if ninjas could use it. I was checking out the thread suggested by Cheapy. From my understanding ninjas can do what rogues can do since ninjas are just an archetype of rogues. Therefore I am assuming and asking for verification that if what I am looking at is approved for base classes, and that their are no other statements saying anything otherwise, on the approved resources from this or that book, then the archetype, which includes its alternate class, can use the same feat, trait, etc. as long as it meets the other requirements, in the Pathfinder games, which includes the Pathfinder Society games? Yet another long and longer question.

The question everyone has been wondering is whether or not alternate classes are like archetypes in that they can use the feats, traits, etc. as the primary class even when the requirement has the primary class as a requirement as long as archetype/alternate class has the ability to utilize the feat, trait, etc? For example using the second question in my last post as an example.

I have two questions. First, it was suggested to me to ask the second question in this thread; however, it isn't an off-topic question, unless you consider it as an off-topic discussion compared to the fact we are in an off-topic discussion thread. So is it okay to ask a question like my second question in this thread if I need an official answer and if I can't get the answer in another thread OR is there a better thread to post it under such as an Ask James Jacobs gaming-related thread? Whew, that was a long question.

The second question is this: I am making my first society character: a halfling ninja. Can my ninja take the "Blade of the Society" trait? My GM says I need an official answer before he will accept it since I am creating it for the Pathfinder Society.

Nathanial321 wrote:

Doesn't it say on page 62 that rogue is a requirement?

If you have the Faction Guide and know what a "Rogue trait" is and requires, you're ahead of most people posting here.

I do not have it. I just found it on the internet. I may buy it at some point soon. So since I read that it was a requirement on the internet and that it wasn't according to a reply in this forum, I thought I would ask for verification from someone who had the book and would be willing to verify the correct information.

Blade of society
pathfinders guide
page 62
requirements

Also, I checked the ask james jacobs thread, but that is for non-gaming questions. Does he have a gaming thread for people needing to ask questions such as this one?

Doesn't it say on page 62 that rogue is a requirement?

My PFS GM says I need an official answer before creating my character. It is my first PFS character: a halfling ninja from the Lantern Lodge. I posted a similar statement at another forum at this link: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz584j?Alternate-classes-and-archetypes-in-PFS#5

Can anyone provide an official source that would be good-to-go for me to print this page and show to any PFS GM and they would accept it as gold? Also, is Sjfish's answer an official answer?

Is this something that has been overlooked or purposely kept this way? I am just getting into the Pathfinder Society with a level 1 ninja, so I am trying to learn about all these rules and possibilities.

Yes I meant rogue. My mistake. Thank you. Therefore, does that mean that all rogue feats and traits are available to ninjas?

If it is a ranger trait, can it be used for its alternate class: ninja?

Thanks for that post A Man In Black. I'm definitely keeping a copy of it for my own records (with your name to show who wrote it). Would you mind offering advice on my character creation?? Thanks again.

Well... big question: is there an honest chance of it getting to 20?

If so: The fighter's capstone is better for sheer beatdown than either of those dips. Dual-wield scimitars (which you have enough +attack to get away with) and 30% of your attacks do triple damage. That kicks ass all over 1d6 or +4 Strength.

However, there are some strong arguments in both utility and survival for deviating from Fighter. Rogue 4 / Barbarian 2 gives you fast movement, 6+ rounds of rage, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, +2d6 sneak attack, one rage power (Superstition, probably) and two rogue talents (which can easily replace two lost fighter feats, among other options). And you've only lost 1 base attack.

It's play by post, so no, I don't think it'll last to level 20.

or fighter/rogue/ranger be a better choice than my previous post?

A Man In Black wrote:

... Track, ranger wands...

Track is now a level-dependent bonus, 2 levels of ranger isn't helping much. Also I believe that you don't get the wands until lvl 4 ranger because your caster level is 0 until then. However, the multiclassed character has better saving throws. As I said, fighter/rogue works. A quick dip in ranger for skills, saving throws and either TWF or a bow feat can work too if that's what you're after. You're right that the perspective changes depending on level and what you want to achieve. Earlier, I was thinking mostly of levels above 10.

Okay. So there are definitely possibilities either way (creativity is a must). I'm just about to create a character for a new game:

Starting level 1

Stats, 20 point buy

I would to play a multi-class of (if it went to 20) 19-1 or 18-2. As of this moment, we have a wizard, rogue, and barbarian. There is me and two more spots with the other two unsure. I was thinking fighter (primary)/barbarian, or fighter (primary)/rogue. What would you guys suggest? Or would straight fighter be the best? (ie. human fighter = three feats, and with int bonus at least +1 makes 5 (insert please, I am not too versed on this new points system) points, use two handed feat, weapon finesse/focus, power attack using scimitars or something with high crit possibilities or just using one weapon)

Arinsen wrote:

Just as the question asks above. Is it worth it?

Thanks

In Pathfinder, only in rare cases, or for role-playing reasons. Whereas previous D&D versions (2.x and 3.x) more or less expected you to multiclass to get a balanced character (except if you were a spellcaster), Pathfinder pretty much corrals you into a single class. You are now quite penalized for multiclassing because so many abilities are level-dependent. If you're a ranger or druid, forget about it if you want a useful companion (unless you are a ranger/druid). If you're a spellcaster, multiclassing sacrifices your most powerful spells so the penalty is greater the higher level you are. That's especially true since spells have been nerfed over several D&D releases so that low-level spells mostly work only against low-level opponents, so losing your highest-level spells is a great loss. Monks and paladins also have level-dependent abilities that are unfriendly to multiclassing. The only classes that can still multiclass without undue penalties are fighter and rogue; or barbarian with rogue. As you can see, Pathfinder has gone quite out of its way to make multiclassing undesirable and impractical. Even though it's still possible in theory, it definitely results in significantly weaker characters. That includes most racial paragons, and most "prestige" classes unless they use one of the classes I mentioned to qualify (except perhaps the dragon disciple).

So, I've been lookng over the posts on this thread and some others.

I suggest looking at this archived thread (no I did not create this thread but it is useful):
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/archives/multiclassingDiscussion

So do most people agree on these builds as "worth it" if a) you start at level 1 and end up to a mid level game but never make it to level 20, b) you do make it to level 20 and play there for a while, c) start in the mid level range and everyone expects and plans to get to level 20 and play there: barbarian/rogue, fighter/rogue, barbarian/fighter, ranger/druid.

Anyone else according to the a), b), and c)'s have any multiclassing that would definitely work and be "worth it"? (For me, I have alway's played a), so I'm truly looking for answers affecting a))?