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Yeah so... Recently my rogue half elf caught a swing of a large Greataxe from that nice oger. So... Ehh... I'm kind of making a new char. And since I liked the playstyle of a sneaky rogue, but severely lacked the 'magic' feel of her like I wanted... I took a look at the Arcane Trickster. It's the closest I could find to my forever loved Charlatan from Drakensang.

But here is my idea...

An elf lady, with... Elven Immunities, Low-Light Vision, Keen Senses, Fey-Sighted and Long-Limbed.

Attributes would be Str 8, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 8.

Traits would be Magic Knack and Reactionary.

I start lvl 2, so I thought of just going U-Rogue 1/Wizard 1.

The idea is, to pick Unchained Rogue for the free Weapon Finesse at lvl 1 and Rogue Finesse: Rapier at lvl 3. The rogue Talent I was considering was Graceful Athlete, which allows me to use Dex for Swim and Climb checks. Wizard is more difficult for me. At first I wanted to pick Illusion as the focus School, but on second thought I am leaning towards Admixture, because it would fit my idea of a wizard that's a bit more reckless. I am leaning towards Bonded Item instead of familiar, because I could not find it anywhere, if when I cast Invisibility on myself, the familiar goes invisible as well. I assume it does not. For the item I was thinking of a ring or amulet, because I am afraid to be disarmed if I pick a weapon. Also a ring or amulet would let me apply magical properties to it easier.

RP side... I want her to be like a wizard that wants to gain knowledge as fast as she can, even if it means stealing other's spell books and scrolls. For which I thought the fey sighted elf would be most fitting.

I read through the Expert's guide to AT, so that helped me a lot already. But I saw it's a bit outdated, as it used the core rogue for evaluation instead of the unchained one, so I came here for your advice once more.

What would be the armor of choice? For wizard the best I can find is just... +1. The rest has Arcane Spell Failure Chance. And I don't know if I want to burn a feat for Arcane Armor Training, because it costs a Swift Action to use. I tried to find a special material that lowers the Chance to 0%, but there is none. Mithrall lowers it by 10% I think. Darkleaf Cloth by 10% down to 5% minimum. And I want to avoid that at all cost. I was thinking of picking Enchantment and Necromancy as my opposition schools, which I belive won't be sacrificing too much for her. But I am still sorting out my feats and traits, not to mention gear and spells.

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Starry Grace and Guided Star Combat sound interesting. Especially for someone who does not need high Strength. But at the same time, it preventa TWF throwing cheese. Quick Draw then.

Which brings me to a second point... Tiefling Tail. There is a Racial Trait that says:
"Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery."

Then there is a race trait that says:
"You can use your tail to grab stowed items. While you cannot wield weapons with your tail, you can use it to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on your person as a swift action."
"If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand)."

The only difference is that you gain 5 feet range with the tail? Would it anyhow help a throwing rogue to get any more attacks? Or allow to skip the quick draw?

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I'm trying to figure out how to make a throwing build work. Aim would be counted with Dex and damage with Str. Which is poop. Because I will either risk missing a lot or do no damage.

Shortspear is a simple, finessable weapon. But there is no way I can make it work as a thrown weapon to scale with Dex :/

Oh well... Back to my planning table.

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Excrucior wrote:
NaeNae wrote:

Is there a way to add Dex to damage for any other weapon but Scimitar and Rapier? I know of the fancing grace feat and that dervish dance one. There is also a mythic weapon finesse, but it's mythic.

Anything else?

There's the Agile weapon enhancement.

That means, I can’t even add Dex when throwing stuff? That's lame...

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Is there a way to add Dex to damage for any other weapon but Scimitar and Rapier? I know of the fancing grace feat and that dervish dance one. There is also a mythic weapon finesse, but it's mythic.

Anything else?

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Elana just hit 3. And I discovered the feat that allows you to add Dex to damage when using rapier, which she recently aquired in a masterwork version. So far I have Weapon Finesse from lvl 1 and now picked this rapier feat. And the Skill Focus Perception from Half Elf racial. I intend to aim for the doubled crit threat range, for that sweet 15-20/x2. That's the best I can think of for quick damage spike. Then Dirty Fighting and Feint or something... I don't know. We will see.

Love you all. Thank you for showing me the world of Pathfinder <3

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I was thinking of leaving Elana and using a different character. I have so many spares it's silly. But that's how I learn the mechanics of the game and understand the various classes and what to expect of them.

I will speak with my GM about tweaking a few things about Elana first. I'm not too eager to start a lvl 1 character when my mage and antipaladin are on 4. If that does not work, I am prepared for the moment she dies, to introduce a new one :)

Can you explain how Dirty Fighting counts towards Improved Feint? As in, I can take Dirty Fighting and then Improved Feint? If yes, then it's great. I can rework my Kitty Rogue.

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I'm already playing the base rogue, no archetypes. I'm the only one with trapfinding in my team. And with the best face skills for now. So I guess I will focus on being a supportive character over forcefully trying to find a way to be viable in combat. Untill my wizard can get me a wand of fireballs.

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*Khan* wrote:

Intimidate (demoralize) is generally superior to feint, as you dont need 13 int. as a prereq., The enemy can't get rid of the debuff condition with an action, And you can make builds which demoralize as a free action.

You need to find a way to feint as a free action or swift action. If not you will never get a full attack.
Read this guide on intimidate:
Intimidate Guide.

Intimidate makes them Shaken, which lowers their Skills, Saves and Attack rolls by 2. How can it help me with AC negation? Unless I use two rounds in a row to push Shaken into Fear or what was the second step. It's great for Power Attacking, Strength based characters. I don't think I can do well with a Dazzling Display on my poor ass rogue.

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"Combat Expertise (Combat)
You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.

Prerequisite: Int 13.(snip)"

That's why I picked 14 Int.

Catfolk racial is: +1/2 to Feint checks in combat and Sleight of Hand checks at all times.

Climber gives my a natural 20 feet climbing speed and the +8 to climbing checks. Canopy Prowler adds +1 to Climb and +1 to Stealth checks while climbing.

Graceful Athlete makes Climb and Swim be Dexterity based instead of Strength.

Rogue Finesse for Rapier is self explanatory.

Further development ideas/thoughts/we will see how things go...

1. Dodge >> Mobility >> Spring Attack
2. Agile Manouvers >> Improved Dirty Trick >> Greater Dirty Trick
3. Critical Focus >> Blinding Critical >> Improved Critical

I guess it will vastly depend how our GM develops the campaign.

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Combat Expertise + Gang Up = Ranged Rogue?

"Gang Up
You are adept at using greater numbers against foes.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.

Benefit: You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least two of your allies are threatening that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent."

Add Point Blank Shot, Snap Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot? You can sacrifice early rogue talents for bonus feats. Would that work or am I over thinking it?

It does not specify if you need to be melee or not, but I think it’s the case here...

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I've talked my GM into using the U-Rogue for my next char, and so I've been tinkering with the class a bit. I designed a "path" I want to take, which is highly influenced by what you guys told me. But I am here to listen to your advice never the less.

Race: catfolk; mostly because I like the class bonus to feint attempts in combat; every two levels of investment it's a +1;

Racial traits: climber, the rest is basic catfolk;

Feats: Improved Initiative (1); Combat Expertise (3); Improved Feint (5);

Rogue Talents: Graceful Athlete (2); Distracting Attack (4);

Rogue Finesse: Rapier (3);

Traits: Crowd Dodger; Canopy Prowler;

Attribute Scores: S-8 D-17 C-10 I-14 W-12 C-16

Skills: I intend to keep Acrobatics, Bluff, Disable Device, Perception, Sleigh of Hand, Stealth and Use Magic Device maxed out as i level up; Climb, Swim, Appraise, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Sense Motiv will be secondary; the rest will be as I see fit; I don't really need to invest too much into Climb, as thanks to Class, Climber, Graceful Athlete and Canopy Prowler, I will have some free +16 bonus I belive;

Opinions? Please tell me I am learning ;-;

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Likely... But thankfully I am addicted to making new characters. I planned 4 more for myself and 3 more for my wizard friend. We have spares :D

And if it comes to fighting, Elana is clever enough to pick her fighting spot. She won't fight honourably.

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My team is:

Meesa: lvl 2 Core Rogue, lil ol' Elana we spoke of.
A tor friend: lvl 2 evocation wizard, noobie like me.
A gm friend: lvl 2 antipaladin, I think he played it before, but does not seem veteran.
A gm friend 2: lvl 1 barbarian, recently joined, so can't say much about him, although he said he played a few campaigns already.

All in all... I'm the skill monkey for the team and the face, for now. I expect the team to fall appart soon, because there are already tensions between the LG wizard and CE antipaladin. Elana is LN and the barbarian is CE. Soon, something will happen that will force us to stand against each other and then it will be fun. Although I don't think Elana would dabble in the fight, unless there was something fkr her to gain from it.

I'm happy about the additional melee character now, will be easier to flank and use bonus dices.

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Yes, it makes lots of sense. Still expansive as all hells. I don't understand how a Rogue can keep up in damage with any other class even more now.

I have prepared myself a tiefling alchemist for a future game. Comparing a lvl 1 alchemist to a lvl 1 rogue...
Rogue can deal 1d6+1d6 if she sneaks. She has to roll agqinst full AC of the target, unless she can remove the dex bonus with feint or some other way. End of the day, it's a 2-12, as a Dex based Rogue won't have much Str.
Alchemist I made can drop one bomb and deal 1d6+5 to the main target and a flat 6 to everyone in adjacent squares. Not to mention it is a ranged touch attack against lower AC.

Now on later levels, the rogue can boost herself with a +5 weapon, spending a bazillion gold pieces just to even herself out on base damage with the alchemist, while the alchemist just needs to level up to gain bonus dices. I don't even want to guess how much a +5 Rapier costs... 50k... Had to check... Bloody hell.

So as my Dex bonus does not conflict with my armor penalty, the best first buy would be a Masterwork Rapier which later should be pushed to a +1 Rapier?

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As was already said, I can’t change to U-Rogue right now due to GM.

As far as I see bombs, they have a range of 20 feet, and considering my aim is to get into melee, I don't think I will be throwing them from further away. That means... It either hits the target, or a square right next to it, still dealing splash damage.

The longer I read of other classes, the stronger I belive, I should be playing a Trap Breaker Alchemist. But oh well... At least I am having fun creating new chars for future fun.

Thir Rogue taught me a lot about how characters work and what's what. But many more questions remain... So back to magical items!

"A magic weapon must have at least a [+]1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities."

"Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value."

"A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls."

There... Does that mean that I only need a masterwork weapon to enchant it with say, Returning? Or will I have to get a masterwork weapon, then enchant it with a +1 mqgical bonus and only then with Returning?

If it's the second, it's stupidly expensive.

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Why would you target an intersection and affect 4 squares over aiming at a guy and having guaranteed hit on him, either splash or direct hit dmg? I don't understand that.

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I forgot that armors reduce the penalties and not increase the ac. But regarding weapons, is it possible to make a masterwork weapon of +2? Without magical enchantment, just enhancement?

As for the magical item list, how badly affected will my char be if I decide to pick other things? It seems like I will be losing at least +2 to attack rolls, some 5AC. I'm just curious, if it’s a take-or-die situation. So far I believed RPGs are all about choices, less so about forced decisions.

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So how does it work exactly? Masterwork armor is considered +1 and for that costs a bonus 150gp. But you speak of a +5 enhancement armor. How can that be calculated? Is it like for each bonus +1 you have to go 1.5 times the previous bonus price? So for a +2 it would be base + 150 + 225?

I'm reading through combat as well. What's the difference between natural, primary and secondary attacks? From what I understand, you can only attack once per turn, unless you have two or more values in your BAB, that's when more attacks become available.

But what if someone has a natural attack but is wielding a weapon? Weapon is primary and the other becomes what? Secondary? Does it mean that if they attack with the weapon, the natural attack is wasted?

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Speaking of magic items, can someone kindly explain them to me?

From what I read, an item can have a max of +10 enchantments. So as an example, it can be a +5 Masterwork Short Sword with two enchantments one +2 and one +3? Or is there a limit to how many enchantments can be applied to a weapon?

What about armors? I found the Greater Shadow enchantment that counts as a +5. But if I apply it to a cloak, what else can be done with it? How do enchantments like... Fly fill into it? Or say, something like that ring that lets you mark a spot and then teleport back to it.

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Well... I wanted to let her assume a different face in times she did not have her wands with her. I know she is female and has... Means to hide a wand, but still... I will think on it ^.^

I'm glad I learned how the point buy works. Time for creative thinking!!!

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So say, a 20 point buy on an Elf U-Rogue that's ment to be a UMD/Stealth oriented char...

Str - 9
Dex - 15 (+2)
Con - 12 (-2)
Int - 14 (+2)
Wis - 12
Cha - 14

It's proper? I think I counted the numbers well.

That gives me...
Str - 9
Dex - 17
Con - 10
Int - 16
Wis - 12
Cha - 14

Minor and Major Magic pull from the Int modifier. I am not sure how will Gloom Magic play with the elven racial class bonus.

The idea is to use Minor and Major Magic for Detect Poison and Disguise Self. Then wands for offensive spells I belive. So that the elf retains the ability to change appearance even when without her gear. For story purposes mostly.

And a first level feat, I guess Skill Focus for Perception or perhaps Agile Manouvers.

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Oh, so that's like... Specialisations in certain skills? Sounds nice.

I'm asking about the U-Rogue, because I'm romancing with a character concept of sorts. But first things first... Determining attribute scores. If you use point buy, you are limited to 7 lowest and 18 highest. But if you use dices, any but the 6+2d6 version, you can end up with say... 5 in one score. How do you even play such a character? I just checked what it means in terms of carry weight if it was ment to be put in strength. It's 16 lbs. So a leather armor and a dagger. It's just silly... Are there any rules about such cases, or you just play with it?

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Dasrak wrote:
Also note that the rules for his sneak attack are slightly different from that of the original rogue, and he gets the effect of the shadow strike feat for free.

Can you explain how her sneak attack is different? It seems the same, either no Dex bonus or flanked.

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Okay, I've been reading through Unchained Rogue a bit and came up with a few more questions.

As I understand it, U-Rogue gets a free Weapon Finesse on level 1. Does it mean that a Rogue starts with two feats?

I assume that Trap Sense has been replaced with Danger Sense?

And could someone explain Rogue's Edge to me?

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Calybos1 wrote:
NaeNae wrote:
As for character concept, yes... I don't have to be optimal in combat. In fact it would fit Elana's personality not to be.
Side note: With this comment, you have probably caused several dozen posters' heads to explode. Well done! Keep the focus on fun.

Well I don't believe in creating characters based on math. Yes it's a factor, but one of many I consider. It's the same when I play Cities Skylines. I can make an intersection the smallest I can and the most efficient, but usually I will go for looks over anything else. Same rules apply here. And knowing my GM, we will focus a lot on the story side of gameplay.

On a side note, what's the idea of Touch AC? When is it used? It seems awfully low compared to other defences.

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Awwww... Con not Str ;-; Silly me... So just Dex then I guess. And yes, I will make a new one to keep things clean.

I just like rolling on the background generator and making up stories with my results. And I liked one enough to morph it into a character.

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Okay! So to sum it up for now!

From feats and talents...

1. Weapon Finesse
2. Fast Stealth
3. Combat Expertise
4. Bomber
5. Improved Feint
6. Minor Magic
7. Greater Feint
8. Gloom Magic
9. Iron will
10. Bomber's Discovery

Works? I will add +1 to Dex on lvls 4 and 8? Or something else? Maybe +1 to Str on lvl 4 to get that +1 on Fortitude saves? The more I know, the stupider my build is :D


Don't think we are done just yet. I already have a second character I want help with, and from my current searches there seems to be equal love for her as for a Core Rogue. A Treesinger Druid :D

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Mhm, thought so. Oh well, I get +2 to Perception from Keen Senses, +1/2 my lvl to finding traps. So I thought it would be bit much for just Perception.

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Crazy Tlabbar wrote:

Ooooo! What Skill Focus are you taking?

Tho if you feel strongly about it, or have a plan, there's also Acrobatics, Perception or Stealth.

I was thinking of Bluff actually, because it's the easiest way to guarantee a sneak attack. Although Acrobatics do have a lot of checks that might help me in combat.

But I am curious how skill focus works. It says that if i have more than 10 in a skill, it raises to +6. But does it mean that I have to put 7 points in a skill and it will be 13, because the +3 will trigger the raise, or will I need to push it to 10 to get the buff?

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A small change happened.

Elana will lose Drow Magic and gain Adaptability and Blended View.

Edit: #LoveYourGM

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I'm sorry, but I don't know the classes you speak of. I only ever had a short look at bard, other than her I read about rogue and druid. I know little about paladin, wizard, but never really got into details of their skills and class bonuses.

I only have looked at a few books, and only partially, looking for what I need to make my rogue. Equipment, spells, things. I haven't even read the way combat works yet, although I have an overall idea. Still the various names of actions elude me. I don't know what's the difference between standard action and atack action, or when can I move and when I cannot. I think I know when attacks of opportunity happen, but I am not trully sure. Although I looked into flanking and what it means.

I would like to pick the feint line and spring atack line at some point. I like the idea of mobility that spring atack gives. And Mobility does sound like Lightning Reflexes, and I love the latter. I like the idea of trickery rogue, so I will pick smoke and blinding bombs, or... That's three rogue talents... So maybe The Whole Time and Occult Dungeoneer and one more instead?

What does it change in wand usage if you treat the spell as in your spell list?

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Ehhh... The character is established Half-Elf and she is already been RPed. I will not change her race or anything during already ongoing RP. I have not used Drow Magic yet, so perhaps my GM will allow me to tinker with it, but truth be told, I don't think I feel comfortable with multiclassing. It's just another layer of mechanics I will have to control, which might just be too much for someone that does not know how combat works.

And all your "pick fighter", "pick slayer", "pick XYZ class and drop rogue at lvl 3" is just... I donno... Rogues are no fighters. I understand as much. Their bonuses to attack are too low, their hp is mediocre. Their uniqueness comes from the highest amount of skills per level, which I intend to use. No other class has so easy skill checks than Rogue. And I believe that's where I should focus my attention. I will never match full BAB classes in damage, simply because I am fully relying on them to deal my damage. End of.

I intend to pick Offensive Defense at level 2 and Combat Expertise at level 3. Then Bomber at 4, Improved Feint at 5 and Fast Stealth at 6. Dodge at 7. I will grab a masterwork short sword when I can, a wand or two as well, if they are available. Maybe rob some stores if it comes to that. I know I want to aim for a Shadow Armor somewhat later, because it's just perfect for Elana,

Although until I level up and am forced to make the decision, nothing is certain. I might just as well pick something utterly different on level 2, as I have a habit of doing :D

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Okay, I have a better understanding of what to do with the class now. But... We forgot of one important thing. Feats I understand more or less. Weapons and playstyle as well. Time for rogue talents!

So I've been browsing them, and... Damn there are a lot... Here are some I consider... Interesting? Or viable? Preferred? With my limited knowledge of the game. But I would love some advice, I can only pick like... 5?

Combat offence:
- Bomber
- Bomber's Discovery

Combat defence:
- Emboldening Strike
- Offensive Defence

Magic feel:
- The Whole Time
- Occult Dungeoneer
- Shadow Duplicate
- Spell Storing
- Silencing Strike
- Minor/Major/Gloom Magic
- Innocent Facade

Thief feel:
- Face in the Crowd
- Honeyed Words
- Scavenger
- Hairpin Trick

Movement stuff:
- Rope Master
- Ledge Walker
- Fast Stealth
- Expert Leaper

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Oh, my GM is a cool guy and we talk a lot about stuff, story and everything. Our PF game might be heavily story driven, but we will see.

I guess if I use a sap on an unsuspecting guard, he won't ask me to roll for dmg and hope for a one hit knock out, but will just assume the guy knocked out.

And so far we assumed everything that's on paizo site as valid to use in character development. So Bomber will be okay.

As for character concept, yes... I don't have to be optimal in combat. In fact it would fit Elana's personality not to be. She is an opportunist and trickster. If she walks into melee, she is a bad rogue. No stealth, no plan, might as well yell "Here I am, kill me." I am confident that my GM will know how to lead fights with logic, as a bulky paladin in full plate will pose a higher threat to the random bandit than a girl with a small sword. She will dance around the fight if I can manage it, using bluff and stealth to get to targets that are exposed and/or weakened. Yes, it might drop more preasure on the other two players, but if I can make a proper distraction, it's all good.

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My GM does own some of the PDFs I belive, but surely not all. And as I said, I don't argue. It's my first ever game in Pathfinder, so I listen and learn the system for now. My only other P&P experience is Afterbomb Madness, which is a local polish system. I managed to build an utterly overpowered sniper/gunslinger there by accident and was the Chuck Noris of that fallout universe.

But back to topic... I will rush the Feint over Focus. And since I started to read about combat maneuvers, I like the Dirty Trick more and more. Improved Feint gives me a Sneak Attack bonus on one attack. But a successful Dirty Trick will make the target lose his Dex bonus to AC for all my other party members, as one of the examples. But the possibilities are numerous. Kick a branch or bucket under his legs to make him trip. And so much more... Maybe I will just start with Dirty Trick and go for Feint?

It pains me that there are so many choices and so little slots to pick them. Like I can force all my rogue talents into feats, and get a lot of stuff, but I feel like I would rid myself of a lot of Rogue flavor by doing this. I don't want to make my Rogue a subpar Fighter, because there is some melee "Standard". I want to have fun with the class, whether it works or not :D

So... I like the idea of kicking sand in the eyes or a bucket in them stones. We will see... I also like the idea of Elana using Smoke Bomb to escape, or Blinding Bomb to turn a close fight in her favor. It just feels dirty and I like how it works with the idea of her I have.

If I ware to count up all my items that I have, I would be somewhere around 340-400 GP I belive. I have a lot of... Miscellaneous items. Chalk, pitons, rope, hammer, grooming kit, mess kit, thieves' tools, so on and so on.

And it's a pony, not a horse! Named Cookie because he is all brown with darker spots, like a chocolate chip cookie :D

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Okay, to sum up what people said and to give more info on what's the current state of my character. So uhh... Full info on her.

Elana - Half Elf Rogue

St 11 De 16 Co 12 In 14 Wi 10 Ch 14

Lawful Neutral alignment.
Keen Senses; Low-Light vision; Drow Magic; Elven Senses; Resilent;
Mercenary; Reactionary traits.

Weapon Finesse feat.

Attached (Item) an Elven Brooch of her mother.

Drow Magic: 1/day I can use Darkness, Dancing Lights and Faerie Fire.

Weapons: 2 Daggers and 1 Sap.
Armor: Studden Leather.
Current Gold: 165.9GP (well around 135-140 if my comrades ask for a split of my last pay).
Current XP: 1000/2000 for lvl 2.

There are lots of other items I have, but they are generic stuff, like a tent, blankets, waterskin and so on. She also has a Pony named Cookie, which she uses to carry all her stuff. That's more or less all.

As for the topic of my GM. We are both heavily invested in RP in The Old Republic MMO. We RP Pathfinder once a week on Sundays. I don't think he has access to the Unchained books and I won't ask him to get it, if he does not want to. I don't know if he is experienced or not, but he is my GM and I respect his decision. He had a look at Unchained Rogue and decided that it would be difficult for him to keep track of all the changes to the class, he was also worried it might be too powerful compared to others. I don't question it, he knows more than I do.

I understand that Mobility is a poop feat for a Rogue. So perhaps...
- Weapon Focus Shortsword (I do want that +1 to attack)
- Combat Expertise
- Dodge
- Improved Feint
- Iron Will
- Greater Feint/Something, perhaps Improved Dirty Trick?

I need to read up on what I can use in combat. I knew I can use Bluff for Feint, but this Tumble with Acrobatics never occurred to me. I wonder what else did I miss.

I think I will try to make her more of a... Play defensively, till you can get an upper hand or your allies came to help you, kind of a character. That means focusing on Feint and Acrobatics. For ranged I am still thinking of using the Rogue Talents to get access to alchemist bombs, because I like the idea. Other than that... Need to talk to my GM about our pay for what we are doing. My almost 170 GP is nothing compared to what others said about 1k GP by that time.

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I need to plan ahead a little... As there are lots of feats I need to take...

1. Weapon Focus Shortsword
2. Dodge
3. Mobility
4. Iron Will (I have 10 Wis)
5. Improved Feint
6. Great Fortitude

That about right order?

As for talents, I will try the Bomber path. I like it and with 14 Int I get three bombs oer day. Should be enough. Grab a Smoke Bomb and Blinding Bomb fir sure. Fast Stealth sounds good, fir both combat and story use.

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I am not freaked out about combat effectiveness. If I can stab a guy from time to time, it's cool. I don't have to blast heads off left and right.

As for UMD, should I focus ln utilities like Feather Fall, Mage Hand or say... Invisibility? Or is it viable to pick a wand with something else, like a damaging spell or something?

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Oh, I more or less accepted the fact, that Pathfinder rogue is not the sneaky assassin with insane burst damage, but rather a sneaky support of the team.

That being said, what would you consider a good spell-trigger item for Use Magic Device? I am not sure how it works, but from what I understand, I buy an item that has like stored set ammount of spells that I can release through UMD. But any spell can be stored in such a way? Say Feather Fall or perhaps Disguise Self?

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Okay, so a Masterwork Shortsword is a high priority purchase. I can't really afford it for now, but hopefully soon. Also weapon focus, will remember. Not much else I can do to buff my attack rolls for now.

From feats I guess Great Fortitude and Iron Will are a nice option. But then I need the Weapon Focus Shortsword first. Dodge and Mobility are sure feats I will want to pick up, as I will have to move around to get into a flank.

And I am curious, how does Bluff and Feint tie into a rogue? It's a decent way to deal sneak damage, if you can get your Bluff high enough, no?

@Adderyn: You speak of yumble. Is it just a phrase you used due to the rogue topic, or is it an actual manoeuvre that has some special influence on the battlefield?

I assume I will need an alchemist lab and ingredients for the sake of creating bombs, if I pick bomber? But I can't find the prices of such anywhere. In the Alchemist class description it just says they are not expensive, nothing else. But it can mean anything from 1SP to 5GP per unit.

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I am not considering a change in the character, be it tweaks to the stats or swap of class. I will play with what I have and try to fill in the gaps with what I can think of. It will be a nice experience to learn the system.

I will move to a short sword for that higher damage dice, I guess and stick to one weapon. After the first fight we had, I see the need for a ranged weapon, as there were lots of turns when I did absolutely nothing, trying to sneak on the enemies shile my team was butchering them. Yes, I do feel a bit useless in combat, especially considering that for 4 attack rolls I managed 3 of them were natural 1s and the other was a 4.

The reason why I have 14 in Intelligence, is because my GM said, as have you, that the concept sill require a lot of skill points to work. Now I have 10 of those per level up. And it is added to the Minor ans Major Magic talents. And since today I know that it also influences the ammount of bombs per day. I don't know if it will work, or if our GM will send us to places where the character concept can be used to it's fullest. But I will hope for the best.

On a side note, would you rather pick feats or rogue talents? It seems that if I want to use both magics and bombs, I am bound for talents. Which might make me starved on feats.

For now I have Weapon Finesse for the Dex instead of Str mod to attacks. Halfway to lvl 2, I expect to reach it during our next session. I will either pick Minor Magic (Mqge Hand) or perhaps Fast Stealth, so I can move quicker around the battlefield.

I considered at first a build based on throwing knives, but then I realised I can deal sneak damage with them reliably. I considered a whip, but it was extremely feat intensive. Perhaps a short sword and bombs will be the way to go.

What would you consider key feats to take? I have Weapon Finesse already. I would rather focus on avoiding damage rather than dealing it. There are a lot of them and so little I can actually have... Makes me sad I can't eventually have all :D

It's Naeli :) That's my nickname. Friends call me NaeNae out of fondness. And it's a she, not a he :P

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Uhm... Other than buffing Dexterity, what else can I do to gain bonuses to attack rolls? On lvl 1 I have no attack bonus from class. I have no means to raise my Dexterity either. I trully don't see how a lvl 1 character can reach this +5 to be in the Green, not to mention the +10. That's like starting with 30 Dexterity. That's like a lot. How do you even do that?

I'm a bit puzzled by Rogue so far. The Paladin gets the Smite Stuff ability and can add his strength to his damage. With a simple swing of his sword, he deals like 1d6+3, I think. While I deal 1d4. Even our Wizard is more useful in combat than my Rogue, regardless of having the lowest level spells only.

From the top of my head... My AC is 16 I think. My saves are Fortitude 2, Reflex 5 and Will 0. Elven Immunities add a 2 to some Will saves.

I tried to edit a previous post, but it did not work, so... I have no build path planned, that's why I came here. I don't know what the class is good at doing and in what it is weak. I only ever RPed in story based RPGs, so my only experience with creating a character is just a story POV. I know who I want Elana to be, but not how to fit my idea into the mechanics. I wanted her to be a half elf thief and scoundrel with minor magical abilities which she uses to fool and mislead, aiding herself in the many heists she conducts. That is why I picked Drow Magic as racial feat. That is why I want to pick Minor and Major Magic rogue talents. But other than that, I do not know what to do. The Bomber path which I only discovered today seems like something she might use, considering the Blinding Bomb and Smoke Bomb would fit the idea of Rogue perfectly.

But I am a noob, so I came here for advice :)

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I'm playing the Core Rogue. GM didn't want to kearn the changes for Unchained. Also I noticed I did not post my attributes...

Str 11
Dex 16
Con 12
Wis 10
Int 14
Cha 14

As for the moving... From what I learned so far, Rogues have low hp and are fully reliant on friends to deal decent damage. I assume you have to move around to get into a flank, while remaining outside of too much threat due to low hp.

And I am sorry, but I don't understand that spreadsheet. It lists bonuses or what? My attack bonus is 3, 5 if I am flanking with a friend. Which happened once so far, for some 12 enemies we faced.

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Hi there community!
A friend of mine recently asked me if I would like to play a Pathfinder game, as he knew I had some experience with P&P. So here I am, making my first character, a Rogue. But reading through all the important stuff, well everything at once in a massive mix of whatever hits my fancy at the moment, made me realize, I am not 100% sure what I am doing. Well closer to 5% of having an idea. Regardless! Here is my question... And I tried to google, but there seem to be various interpretations of said issue.

1. When exactly do you flank?

It says you need to be on the opposite side of an enemy than your companion is and be threatening that enemy. Does that mean, that a Rogue with Weapon Focus: Dagger, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Snap Shot will be able to flank without being in melee range? As in... Snap Shot states within 5 feet away from you, so... That's melee range or is that 5 feet added to the normal Threat radius around a dagger wielder?

2. When is the enemy prevented from using his Dexterity for a save throw? Aka when do I apply Sneak Attack bonus dmg to my dagger throwing?

From what I found, it's only during a surprise round and if you act before targeted enemy in the first round, but after that it's no longer viable. But what of say, tripping an enemy? Wouldn't that make him drop on the floor and be unable to dodge the incoming dagger?

3. How does Stealth work during a fight?

As in... If you remain in full darkness, can you just shoot people without them using Dex for save throws, aka applying your Sneak bonus dmg? If not, then it's utterly crap for any attempt of making a high dexterity ranged Rogue.