Rogue - starting noob questions :)


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Grand Lodge

Are you still a regular rogue or unchained rogue?


Regular Rogue with this character, why?

Grand Lodge

Intimidate unchained rules gets skill unlocks after each 5 ranks that increase the fear-level with intimidate.

With regular, you can use the Thug archtype to increase fearlevel, but it replace trapfinding... (cant have it all..)

Or Rake archtype to get free intimidate if you drop 1d6 sneakattack damage. Does not stack with Thug, as it also replaces trapfinding....

Bandit archtype mix well with both of the above options.


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NaeNae wrote:

"Combat Expertise (Combat)

You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.

Prerequisite: Int 13.(snip)"

That's why I picked 14 Int.

Catfolk racial is: +1/2 to Feint checks in combat and Sleight of Hand checks at all times.

Climber gives my a natural 20 feet climbing speed and the +8 to climbing checks. Canopy Prowler adds +1 to Climb and +1 to Stealth checks while climbing.

Graceful Athlete makes Climb and Swim be Dexterity based instead of Strength.

Rogue Finesse for Rapier is self explanatory.

Further development ideas/thoughts/we will see how things go...

Feats:
1. Dodge >> Mobility >> Spring Attack
2. Agile Manouvers >> Improved Dirty Trick >> Greater Dirty Trick
3. Critical Focus >> Blinding Critical >> Improved Critical

I guess it will vastly depend how our GM develops the campaign.

I found combat expertise to be not very useful.

Spring attack is very good with the Scout Archetype.


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I'm already playing the base rogue, no archetypes. I'm the only one with trapfinding in my team. And with the best face skills for now. So I guess I will focus on being a supportive character over forcefully trying to find a way to be viable in combat. Untill my wizard can get me a wand of fireballs.

Liberty's Edge

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I agree with DrDeth, combat expertise is not a useful feat, especially on a class with accuracy issues. Taking an Int of 14 at the cost of Con just to take the feat isn't a great choice either, with the lower hit die. Also, spring attack does combine really well with scout, which doesn't actually change any class features until 4th level, so if you haven't already reached 4th level, it would be worth looking into.

If you're taking combat expertise just to qualify for the improved/greater feint options, consider Dirty Fighting as a replacement. It counts as having 13 Dex, 13 Int, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Combat Expertise for pre-requisites on the improved/greater combat maneuver feats, including feint.

EDIT - About playing archetypes: generally you don't have to take an archetype up until the first level that trades out regular rogue powers for the archetypes abilities. If you haven't already gained an ability that the archetype trades out, you should be good to go.

Grand Lodge

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NaeNae wrote:
I'm already playing the base rogue, no archetypes. I'm the only one with trapfinding in my team. And with the best face skills for now. So I guess I will focus on being a supportive character over forcefully trying to find a way to be viable in combat. Untill my wizard can get me a wand of fireballs.

Okay. You have learned a lot already.

If you get tired of your character - talk to your GM about retirering it and build a new one.


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I was thinking of leaving Elana and using a different character. I have so many spares it's silly. But that's how I learn the mechanics of the game and understand the various classes and what to expect of them.

I will speak with my GM about tweaking a few things about Elana first. I'm not too eager to start a lvl 1 character when my mage and antipaladin are on 4. If that does not work, I am prepared for the moment she dies, to introduce a new one :)

Can you explain how Dirty Fighting counts towards Improved Feint? As in, I can take Dirty Fighting and then Improved Feint? If yes, then it's great. I can rework my Kitty Rogue.

Liberty's Edge

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NaeNae wrote:
Can you explain how Dirty Fighting counts towards Improved Feint? As in, I can take Dirty Fighting and then Improved Feint? If yes, then it's great. I can rework my Kitty Rogue.

That is exactly how that works.


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Elana just hit 3. And I discovered the feat that allows you to add Dex to damage when using rapier, which she recently aquired in a masterwork version. So far I have Weapon Finesse from lvl 1 and now picked this rapier feat. And the Skill Focus Perception from Half Elf racial. I intend to aim for the doubled crit threat range, for that sweet 15-20/x2. That's the best I can think of for quick damage spike. Then Dirty Fighting and Feint or something... I don't know. We will see.

PS.
Love you all. Thank you for showing me the world of Pathfinder <3


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Is there a way to add Dex to damage for any other weapon but Scimitar and Rapier? I know of the fancing grace feat and that dervish dance one. There is also a mythic weapon finesse, but it's mythic.

Anything else?


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NaeNae wrote:

Is there a way to add Dex to damage for any other weapon but Scimitar and Rapier? I know of the fancing grace feat and that dervish dance one. There is also a mythic weapon finesse, but it's mythic.

Anything else?

There's the Agile weapon enhancement.

.


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Excrucior wrote:
NaeNae wrote:

Is there a way to add Dex to damage for any other weapon but Scimitar and Rapier? I know of the fancing grace feat and that dervish dance one. There is also a mythic weapon finesse, but it's mythic.

Anything else?

There's the Agile weapon enhancement.

That means, I can’t even add Dex when throwing stuff? That's lame...


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There is the slashing grace feat, that works for slashing light and one handed weapons.

Also there is the fighter's advanced weapon training: "Fighter’s Finesse (Ex) The fighter gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with all melee weapons that belong to the associated fighter weapon group (even if they cannot normally be used with Weapon Finesse). The fighter must have the Weapon Finesse feat before choosing this option." This is unusual in that it allows even non finesse weapons dexterity to damage and doesn't have the restrictions that many dex to damage has.

Unchained rogues have:

Finesse Training (Ex)

At 1st level, a rogue gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. In addition, starting at 3rd level, she can select any one type of weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse (such as rapiers or daggers). Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. Whenever she makes a successful melee attack with the selected weapon, she adds her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier to the damage roll. If any effect would prevent the rogue from adding her Strength modifier to the damage roll, she does not add her Dexterity modifier. The rogue can select a second weapon at 11th level and a third at 19th level.

This lets them have dex to damage with any finesse weapon, also I've heard that it is the only way to get dexterity and a half to damage with a 2 handed finesse weapon (such as the elven curved blade).

Edit: Ace bolt gunslingers get dexterity to damage with one type of crossbow at level 5. Pistalero gunslingers gain dexterity to damage with one weapon that is a one handed firearm.


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I'm trying to figure out how to make a throwing build work. Aim would be counted with Dex and damage with Str. Which is poop. Because I will either risk missing a lot or do no damage.

Shortspear is a simple, finessable weapon. But there is no way I can make it work as a thrown weapon to scale with Dex :/

Oh well... Back to my planning table.

Silver Crusade

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Unchained rogue & dagger will do all taht (from lvl 3 damage from dex) and are easy to hide and throwables


Mondragon wrote:
Unchained rogue & dagger will do all taht (from lvl 3 damage from dex) and are easy to hide and throwables

The Unchained rogue's finesse training says that it is for melee attacks, so I don't think it will work with thrown weapons.

Starry Grace gives dex to damage with a starknife when thrown (I think). Guided Star Combat can help give the weapon return after thrown (as the returning property a number of times equal to the characters level).

There is several 3rd party publishers that have options for dex to damage with thrown weapons:

Fatal Finesse a ninja trick from rogue genius games.

Deadly Throw from Dreamscarred Press.


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Starry Grace and Guided Star Combat sound interesting. Especially for someone who does not need high Strength. But at the same time, it preventa TWF throwing cheese. Quick Draw then.

Which brings me to a second point... Tiefling Tail. There is a Racial Trait that says:
"Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery."

Then there is a race trait that says:
"You can use your tail to grab stowed items. While you cannot wield weapons with your tail, you can use it to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on your person as a swift action."
&
"If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand)."

The only difference is that you gain 5 feet range with the tail? Would it anyhow help a throwing rogue to get any more attacks? Or allow to skip the quick draw?


Here's a thread that has a lot of discussion about feats for thrown weapons: Feat thread.

I'd say the tail would delay the need for quick draw, and is a really good idea, I think you'd still need to get quick draw eventually to get the number of attacks you'd need. I'd guess with this you'd easily get by till level 8 for a 3/4 bab class, by a quick estimation.

Just a quick look at feats (it may not be the most optimal) For an unchained rogue

level 1: Weapon Finesse B, point blank,
level 2: Rogue talent weapon training starknife (weapon focus)
level 3: Precise shot
level 4: Rogue talent: combat trick: Starry grace
level 5: Rapid shot
level 7: quick draw (probably) or guided star


I forgot the starknife is a martial weapon, so with a uRogue you'd need a way to be proficient. The trait Varisian Tattoo works for humans and you'd get an extra feat to help out with missing a tail. You could probably move quick draw up to level 1 as your human bonus feat The trait Heirloom weapon might work for non-humans, but I definitely has downsides.

Multiclassing with a class with martial weapon proficiency is another route.


Well... Now I set off to find all the possibilities to change modifiers to attack and damage. I know of Dex and Wis to attack, scarce Dex to damage and now Wis to damage. Wonder what else I can find.


NaeNae wrote:
Well... Now I set off to find all the possibilities to change modifiers to attack and damage. I know of Dex and Wis to attack, scarce Dex to damage and now Wis to damage. Wonder what else I can find.

Here's a few options, it's probably an incomplete list:

kineticist get Constitution to damage.

"Way of the Shooting Star" adds charisma to damage when wielding a starknife. Divine fighting technique.

Alchemist's get intelligence to damage with their bombs.


As I am digging into different races... What exactly are those RP near some of the entries? Like Catfolk have 9RP but say... Aasimar have 15RP. What does that mean?


NaeNae wrote:
As I am digging into different races... What exactly are those RP near some of the entries? Like Catfolk have 9RP but say... Aasimar have 15RP. What does that mean?

In the book the Advanced Race Guide there is a section about creating custom races. When creating these custom races you buy things for them with Race Points (RP), in theory races with more RP are stronger than those with fewer RP. It's not a very balanced system from what I've heard though. In the Advanced Race Guide they give the RP for the standard races and other races as well as the races that are in the ARG.

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