Arcane Trickster - because Rogue is dead [*]


Advice

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Yeah so... Recently my rogue half elf caught a swing of a large Greataxe from that nice oger. So... Ehh... I'm kind of making a new char. And since I liked the playstyle of a sneaky rogue, but severely lacked the 'magic' feel of her like I wanted... I took a look at the Arcane Trickster. It's the closest I could find to my forever loved Charlatan from Drakensang.

But here is my idea...

An elf lady, with... Elven Immunities, Low-Light Vision, Keen Senses, Fey-Sighted and Long-Limbed.

Attributes would be Str 8, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 8.

Traits would be Magic Knack and Reactionary.

I start lvl 2, so I thought of just going U-Rogue 1/Wizard 1.

The idea is, to pick Unchained Rogue for the free Weapon Finesse at lvl 1 and Rogue Finesse: Rapier at lvl 3. The rogue Talent I was considering was Graceful Athlete, which allows me to use Dex for Swim and Climb checks. Wizard is more difficult for me. At first I wanted to pick Illusion as the focus School, but on second thought I am leaning towards Admixture, because it would fit my idea of a wizard that's a bit more reckless. I am leaning towards Bonded Item instead of familiar, because I could not find it anywhere, if when I cast Invisibility on myself, the familiar goes invisible as well. I assume it does not. For the item I was thinking of a ring or amulet, because I am afraid to be disarmed if I pick a weapon. Also a ring or amulet would let me apply magical properties to it easier.

RP side... I want her to be like a wizard that wants to gain knowledge as fast as she can, even if it means stealing other's spell books and scrolls. For which I thought the fey sighted elf would be most fitting.

I read through the Expert's guide to AT, so that helped me a lot already. But I saw it's a bit outdated, as it used the core rogue for evaluation instead of the unchained one, so I came here for your advice once more.

What would be the armor of choice? For wizard the best I can find is just... +1. The rest has Arcane Spell Failure Chance. And I don't know if I want to burn a feat for Arcane Armor Training, because it costs a Swift Action to use. I tried to find a special material that lowers the Chance to 0%, but there is none. Mithrall lowers it by 10% I think. Darkleaf Cloth by 10% down to 5% minimum. And I want to avoid that at all cost. I was thinking of picking Enchantment and Necromancy as my opposition schools, which I belive won't be sacrificing too much for her. But I am still sorting out my feats and traits, not to mention gear and spells.


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Mithral is –10% but with no limitation
To enter you must be Urogue 3/Wizard 3
D20pfsrd is outdated + Fey-Sighted is awesome

Race:

Long-Limbed: Elves with this racial trait have a base move speed of 35 feet. This racial trait replaces weapon familiarity.
Low-Light Vision: Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Elven Immunities: Elves are immune to magic sleep effects and gain a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Keen Senses: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Fey-Sighted: To some elves with fey heritage, magic is a visible presence they have known all their lives. These elves have detect magic as a constant spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to their character level. This racial trait replaces elven magic.

Double-Plated adds +1 Armor at the cost of increasing the Armor category and decreasing the max Dex bonus by 2


Mage Armor is the standard armor for a... mage. OK, maybe not at level 1 wizard. At the mo you probably try be paranoid, shoot from the back rank or from up a tree or something.

If you're going to be using a lot of sneak attack then evocation/admixture is a decent choice of school. You might want the standard elven magic for the spell penetration going that way.

If a familiar is carried by you inside something (pack, familiar satchel) I think it would be covered by your invis. A concealable bonded item isn't a bad idea though; make sure you get some sleight of hand skill in case you want to hide it.

Liberty's Edge

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You can grab Accomplished Sneak Attacker and get Arcane Trickster with only Rogue 1/Wizard 3.

If you grab the Snoop Archetpe you can also replace Trapfinding with Inspiration and be legitimately good at skills.

As for armor, I'd go with Mage Armor as suggested, at least once you've got some CLs under your belt, especially if you grab a Lesser Rod of Extend. Before then, try not to get into melee combat.


If you haven't looked at the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue archetype, you might want to take a glance. When you build it on the Unchained Rogue, it's a really nice alternative to Arcane Trickster.

Silver Crusade

If you want more roguish features, the Eldritch Scoundrel archetype is pretty great.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-a rchetypes/eldritch-scoundrel-rogue/

This way you can go U. Rogue all the way.


Accomplished Sneak Attacker as already mentioned is the best path for you. Instead of rouge consider a level in snakestrike brawler or vivisectionist alchemist. Regardless of class chosen, I do recommend only taking the 1st level in your sneak attack class. Keeping a cl is better than any of the benefits from a 2nd level

Admixture is a great school for AT. Fiery Shurakin is probably the best low level sneak attack spell. Alternatively foresight school makes you a very good skill monkey and unlike many wizards AT benefits well from divination slots(heightened awareness, sense vitals, cleromancy, etc). While not optimal I really enjoy Creation school for Mc Gyver shenanigans

For armor Mage armor is your best bet at low levels. Once you get the money Djezet Skin is really cool and not bad mechanically. Make sure to grab a mithril buckler to bump your ac

Short story of this paragraph, familiar is best but bonded item is still good. Familiars are amazing provided you feel like doing the paperwork. You are correct that they don't go invisible with you. They are however naturally very stealthy from size and sharing your stealth ranks. Also note you can keep them on nearby party members if you think an animal will draw attention. They act as wand users, a second attempt at skill checks, and emergency flank buddies. On the other hand a bonded ring is definitely solid option. A bonus flexible spell per day and early access to ring of invisibility is nothing to scoff at. Note other types of bonded item are just worse than rings assuming your dm does not regularly cut off hands

Additonal traits could very well be worth a feat. Clever wordplay and wayang spellhunter are pretty sweet

Lastly if you want to be stealing spellbooks grab the spell "Secluded Grimoire". Touch, no save, no spell res.

Silver Crusade

My arcane trickster is a Wayang with an Owl (Mauler) Familiar.

At L3 wizard this means that the Owl can grow to medium size and you can easily ride it.

While this is NOT generally a good idea in combat (the poor thing just doesn't have many hit points) it is WONDERFUL for utility. And sometimes you're fighting something ground based without decent ranged options and flying IS useful in combat.


She or he was going for Dex to Damage at L.3


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dastis wrote:
Familiars are amazing ...

Keep in mind that the familiar special abilities do not increase with your Arcane Trickster levels. No increase in intelligence, armor class, or any of the other things from the table on pg. 83 of the core rule. The saves, BAB and hit points would increase, but none of the specials. Also, for a familiar to flank I believe it would have to be size small or larger.

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Does the archaeologist bard get sneak attack? Maybe not what you're looking for, but another option.

I'm kind of surprised none of the hybrid classes was a rogue/mage combo. The magus is kind of like the eldritch knight. The bard is not quite the rogue/mage "sneaky fighting mage" many people are looking for.


It is actually possible to go into Arcane Trickster with a single primary class if you use VMC Rogue and Accomplished Sneak Attacker, although your entry will be late unless you dip into a Sneak Attack class and then retrain it into another level of your arcane casting class later.

Unfortunately, no Unchained Ninja exists as official Paizo content (as opposed to 3rd party)(*). If it did, and if you didn't mind being a Gnome instead of an Elf, it might be worth going Ninja 3/Sorcerer 4(**) into Arcane Trickster, since you would get a Charisma-dependent Ki pool and have the potential to get the Ninja Vanishing Trick, AND, as a Gnome, you would qualify for the Threatening Illusion metamagic feat to get a disposable flanking partner.

(*)This means no free Weapon Finesse or Dex-to-Damage.

(**)Sorcerer 1 if you can get the Equipment Trick (Sunrod) trick to fly.

By the way, DON'T go with the Greensting Slayer archetype of Magus -- it's terrible. It purports to get you Sneak Attack, but you have to spend your limited Arcane Pool points for each one, and lose them even if you miss.


Sandman Bard can get in, but it takes a little longer.


You could take one level of rogue amd one of alchemist (vivisectionist), they both give level 1 sa, allowing you to take the prestige class one level earlier, but you will lose 2 points of bab


I think that could also give you a 10 minute cognotogen for a +4 int -2 str


Snakebite Striker brawler gets +1 BAB & +1d6 sneak attack at 1st level gunny. I don't think it's what the OP is after since they want dex to damage but it's a useful ingredient for some kinds of arcane trickster.


gunny the toad wrote:
You could take one level of rogue amd one of alchemist (vivisectionist), they both give level 1 sa, allowing you to take the prestige class one level earlier, but you will lose 2 points of bab

. . . Unless Pathfinder Unchained Fractional Base Bonuses are in effect (highly recommended, but not allowed in PFS unless something changed recently).


"At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on)." - was that rule changed?

Also I want to go 3 lvls in rogue for the sake of free Weapon Finesse and Fencing Grace. I am short on feats and it will not cost me much. One Caster Level with Magic Knack. I will be behind in available spell levels, but I am not to bothered by it.

I was thinking of picking up Secluded Grimoire, as it perfectly fits the character. But am a bit puzzled about the rest of the spells. For example Scorching Ray, it calls for an attack roll with every ray fired, so I will assume you add sneak dices to every hit. But what of AoE spells? If I cast a Fireball against flatfooted enemies, does only the direct hit get sneak dmg or all within AoE?

I was aiming to enchant the ring with Invisibility, to save on spell slots. I think it beats the +3 stealth from a familiar.

Also I would very much like to keep Trapfinding for the sake of disabling traps.


^The rule you quote is still in effect, except that it is an open question what to do when one of the classes is a Sneak Attack archetype of a normally non-Sneak-Attack class and has an uneven Sneak Attack progression, such as Snakebite Striker Brawler (I could have sworn I have seen another one, but can't remember what it is).

Magical Knack makes up 2 of the lost caster levels, so you are correct if you meant that you are only behind by 1 caster level if you dip Rogue 3.

If you want a bonded ring (which is not a bad idea), you might eventually want to enchant the ring with Freedom of Movement(*) so that if things go sour, you have a much better chance to get away, even if the enemies have True Seeing or something else that lets them laugh at Invisibility.

(*)You won't have the spell on your list unless you do something really weird, so this adds +5 to the DC to enchant the ring with this, so you will need to wait until you have enough ranks in Spellcraft to make up for it, unless you can get a friendly spellcaster that has it (usually Cleric or Oracle -- several other classes also get it, but later) to supply it for you.


NaeNae wrote:
Also I want to go 3 lvls in rogue for the sake of free Weapon Finesse and Fencing Grace. I am short on feats and it will not cost me much. One Caster Level with Magic Knack. I will be behind in available spell levels, but I am not to bothered by it.

If you're not bothered by being behind in spell level, then go with the Eldritch Scoundrel. If you want to focus more heavily on your combat ability, it delivers far more consistently and effectively. A prospective Arcane Trickster needs to qualify as quickly as possible, since faster spell level progression is its primary advantage over Eldritch Scoundrel in the first place. If you delays its spellcasting progression there's basically no point and you should have been an Eldritch Scoundrel.

The Arcane Trickster is a spellcaster first and foremost. It is not a melee attacker, and if you are trying to make it into a melee attacker you will be disappointed. It just doesn't have the base attack bonus to hit things in melee, and instead relies on touch attacks and spells to deliver sneak attacks. The Eldritch Scoundrel with Unchained Rogue has a good melee presence with finesse training and better base attack bonus, and actually has better spellcasting progression for much of your early career. This makes it a vastly superior option if that's the kind of playstyle you're pursuing.

Both of these are great options that I highly recommend. They're very similar thematically, but in terms of how they play they're completely different. Arcane Trickster is very definitely a caster first and always, and should be treated as such. The Eldritch Scoundrel is vastly better-suited to the task if you want to get your hands dirty in combat.


I want to focus on casting, but with the limited number of spells, I don't want to be utterly useless in melee.

I am looking to be a rogue most of all. And ranged dmg dealer secondly. Melee is ment to be for those moments where there is nothing else I can do. I want to be the rogue first and foremost. Just a magical one.

I had a look at Eldritch Scoundrel, but I don't like the reduced sneak attack dmg. Not to mention she won't add it to her spells. That's 5d6 vs 7d6.

As for the ring, I believe we will soon have a Warpriest joining, but not a Cleric.

I was thinking of taking a different rogue talent tbh, either a Combat Trick and maybe some combat feat, or perhaps Fast Stealth. But I don't think Fast Stealth would work with Blur, but it could work with Invisibility.

Is there any way to remove vocal components of a spell? Like... Silent Casting from Skyrim?


The silent spell metamagic feat (or a metamagic rod of silent spell) or a level dip in oracle with the deaf curse can make spells silent. Plus there's the odd spell like hypnotic pattern which has no verbal component.

Sneak attack can add to any spell with damage and an attack roll. The arcane trickster does get to add it to other spells eventually, true.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
NaeNae wrote:
For example Scorching Ray, it calls for an attack roll with every ray fired, so I will assume you add sneak dices to every hit. But what of AoE spells? If I cast a Fireball against flatfooted enemies, does only the direct hit get sneak dmg or all within AoE?

You would only get Sneak Attack on the first ray of a Scorching Ray, not each ray.

Arcane Trickster at 10th level gives you an ability (Surprise Spell) that allows you to Sneak Attack with a Fireball. Normally that is not possible.

Liberty's Edge

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NaeNae wrote:

I want to focus on casting, but with the limited number of spells, I don't want to be utterly useless in melee.

I am looking to be a rogue most of all. And ranged dmg dealer secondly. Melee is ment to be for those moments where there is nothing else I can do. I want to be the rogue first and foremost. Just a magical one.

I had a look at Eldritch Scoundrel, but I don't like the reduced sneak attack dmg. Not to mention she won't add it to her spells. That's 5d6 vs 7d6.

As for the ring, I believe we will soon have a Warpriest joining, but not a Cleric.

I was thinking of taking a different rogue talent tbh, either a Combat Trick and maybe some combat feat, or perhaps Fast Stealth. But I don't think Fast Stealth would work with Blur, but it could work with Invisibility.

Is there any way to remove vocal components of a spell? Like... Silent Casting from Skyrim?

If your group allows third party material, you might take a look at the Trickster class in the soon to be released (as in, later this month, or early next month!) New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press.

I think the Trickster is pretty much exactly what you are looking for!


I am a little curious because its a little unclear. Do you want to be melee focused or casting focused?

The best ways to be silent are silent rod or use sorcerer with psychic bloodline. Having played both spontaneous and prepared tricksters, it is well doable both ways

You are right that rule regarding sneak attack progression was not changed to my knowledge

Just adding to the sneak attack with spells, but the sneak attack is considered to be the same type of damage as the spell. IE: shocking grasp sneak attack is electric damage

Spellstoring weapons are your friend btw


NaeNae wrote:
I want to focus on casting, but with the limited number of spells, I don't want to be utterly useless in melee.

If you go with Wizard 3 / Rogue 3 then you will fall behind the curve both in terms of your spellcasting and your melee presence. The Arcane Trickster is extremely caster-focused by its nature, and investing class features or feats in melee combat won't be able to salvage those abilities. The next step in the other direction is the Eldritch Scoundrel which is moderately melee-focused and generally doesn't make use of direct damage spells. You can tweak them a bit to find a middle-ground at low levels, but it becomes harder and harder to fight this as you gain levels.

NaeNae wrote:
I am looking to be a rogue most of all. And ranged dmg dealer secondly. Melee is ment to be for those moments where there is nothing else I can do.

This is a bit confusing, since Rogues do focus in melee combat by default.

I think right now the most important thing is to unambiguously decide what your character wants to be doing in combat. Out-of-combat is easy, you're an intelligence-based spellcaster with loads of skill points so you're set for life there. I'm sort of getting the sense that you want to use direct-damage spells, and if that's the case then maximizing your spell level availability is overwhelmingly your highest priority to the exclusion of everything else.


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Play a Magus (kensai) and take the Trapfinder and Seeker traits.

Dervish Dance. Invest in stealth.

Now you have a magic rogue.

Dark Archive

Magus 6, Rogue 1-3, Arcane trickster X

presient attack (lv 6 magus)- gets people denied dex to end of your nxt turn.

Arcane accuracy get your int bonus to hit

Magus, Kenai, bladebound, etc whatever you like. Magus gets you additional attacks.

Rogue, plain, unchained, knifemaster, etc. Whatever you like.

Limited spell options - if that matters to you is the negative.

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Have you considered focusing on ranged spell sneak attacks? You can use cantrips most of the time, and use spells when you need to go nova. Shot on the Run (is there a magical equivalent to this?) can be used to move from hiding-attack-move into hiding. Obviously greater invisibility will be your go to spell to get consistent sneak attack after level 10. Vanish might work at low levels.

Maybe consider ninja 3/eldritch scion magus 4/arcane trickster X. Focus of Charisma and Dexterity.


SmiloDan wrote:
Shot on the Run (is there a magical equivalent to this?)

If you can qualify for it, flyby attack works.

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Dasrak wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
Shot on the Run (is there a magical equivalent to this?)
If you can qualify for it, flyby attack works.

Cool.

So no Cast on the Run or Wandrunner or anything like that? Maybe that was 3.5...


Wand dancer ISWG


Dastis wrote:
Wand dancer ISWG

You'd really need the Staff-like Wand discovery to make this combo reliable, and that requires you to be an 11th level Wizard (not to mention makes the full combo insanely feat-intensive) so it's not compatible with Arcane Trickster.


For an Elven 'arcane rogue' type, more spells = better. Better attack, better damage, better abilities. Heroism, Sense Vitals, Contagious Zeal, Blade Tutor's Spirit... lots of ways to improve effectiveness. I would focus on maximizing your casting and BAB, and avoiding levels that don't directly help those as much as possible.

The biggest deal, though, is that an Exploiter Wizard or Arcanist can utilize blinding spells to huge effect, including using specialized Dazzling Blade to blind foes as a swift action. With the right bonuses, you can make even low level blinds exceptionally hard to resist. Blind not only triggers sneak damage, but helps the whole party in both offense and defense.

An Elven curved blade with Power Attack and the Agile property is very strong, and requires no special level grabs. It's reasonably strong even without Agile. Elven branched spear is basically the same, with reach. With a nice, strong weapon and assorted buffs, you're far less dependant on sneak damage.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Play a Magus (kensai) and take the Trapfinder and Seeker traits.

Dervish Dance. Invest in stealth.

Now you have a magic rogue.

with 2skp/ level, which is by no means enough.


For Arcane Tricksters, you gotta ask yourself whether you value Dex to Damage or just casting spells, because Arcane Trickster favours heavy investment into spellcasting over hitting things with a sword. My advice is definitely to simply go URogue 1 (it has the strongest sneak attack, and I don't mean numbers)/Wizard 3 and get the last damage dice using Accomplished Sneak Attacker. You'll have full wizard spellcasting (relatively speaking), a respectable amount of sneak attack, and Weapon Finesse for free which helps with accuracy using touch attack spells and saves you a feat. Your blasting is okay, but really it is the utility of the combination that should be the big draw here.

If you wanted to kill people dead with sneaky magic, go 1-20 Eldritch Scoundrel. You can sneak attack with Shocking Grasp, and since you have the wizard spell list, you have most if not all the wizard's bag of tricks available to you. Including Sense Vitals to get back all that sneak attack dice you were missing (when you attack with a manufactured weapon), which isn't hard to have up all the time. Also, Debilitating Injury, which increases your effective to-hit/AC, and benefits your party as a whole.


Eldritch Scoundrel gets the Magus Spells, no? Not the wizard. Unless they are the same, which I didn't check.

But to clear up confusion from my unclear explanations as to what I want the character to be.

I want to fill the role of a Rogue in terms of party utility. That means for me, finding traps and disabling them, scouting for danger, stealing. Perhaps setting up traps.

In combat I want to mostly cast spells from range. But since enemies can be mean and charge, I do want to have a melee fall back weapon for those dire times. By no means I will seek to engage into melee unless I am certain I can survive it and benefit the team from it. My main focus is to blast stuff with silly spells like Acid Splash and add Sneak Dices to it.

But that brings me to a new question. From Arcane Trickster description, one can read "When a new arcane trickster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class. She does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known, and an increased effective level of spellcasting."

So if theoretically I go U-Rogue 3/Wizard 3/A-Trickster 10/Wizard 4 at Character level 20, I will have 7 levels of Wizard for the sake of Admixture school powers? As in I will not get the Elemental Manipulation from level 8 Wizard?


Eldritch scoundrel gets the wizard spell list, they get spells/day as per a magus,.

Yes, that's right about the school powers.


Eldritch Scoundrel is great for getting the basics of Wizard/Rogue all in one can, but it lacks many of the finer points of mixing classes with some Arcane Trickster. At higher levels, it can start to look a little sad compared to where some kind of Trickster multiclass would be in both casting and sneak attack. None of which is to say that it's bad.


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Hrm. I think going the Rogue 3/Wiz 3 route doesn't really fit her goal of "gain knowledge as fast as she can." Those three levels of rogue will slow her down a LOT, and the Fencing Grace is likely to fall by the wayside pretty fast.

Here are some suggestions. Yikes, this kind of turned into a mini-guide.

-1 caster level, -1 feat, medium sneak attack, fast lead-in

Level 1: be a rogue.
Levels 2,3,4: be a wizard.

At level 3, take Accomplished Sneak Attacker. If you have spent your skill points wisely, you should be able to satisfy all the entry requirements and take your first level AT at level 5.

Your sneak attack progression looks like this:

1: +1d6 Rogue
3: +1d6 Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat
6: +1d6 Arcane Trickster
8: +1d6 Arcane Trickster
10: +1d6 Arcane Trickster
12: +1d6 Arcane Trickster
14: +1d6 Arcane Trickster

Because AT sneak attack increases fall on even numbered levels, your progression is a teeny bit delayed compared to a straight rogue, but only by one level. After level 14, you're done advancing your sneak attack unless you want to start multiclassing even more, which I advise against at that point. But you're still just 1 caster level off being a full wizard.

This approach lets you keep most of your feats to spend on whatever you want. And honestly, an awful lot of campaigns end before you hit level 15, so losing those upper levels of sneak attack doesn't hurt too much. Based on that, I think this approach is probably your best choice.

But here are two other options.

Full Caster Level, full sneak attack, very few feats, long lead-in

Be a wizard. But also use Variant Multiclassing (VMC) as a rogue.

You sneak attack progression looks like this:

7: +1d6 from VMC
9: +1d6 Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat
11: +2d6 (VMC, second level of Arcane Trickster)
13: +1d6 (fourth level of AT)
15: +2d6 (VMC, sixth level of AT)
17: +1d6 (8th level of AT)
19: +2d6 (VMC, 10th level of AT)

It's a long, slow path, but if you can make it to high levels you'll have a full caster level and the same number of sneak attack dice as a full rogue.

The two disadvantages of this approach are that you have VERY few feats, and that it takes a LONG time to get to high enough levels for it to really come together.

-1 caster level, very few feats, medium lead-in

Levels 1-5: be a wizard, but also use VMC Rogue.
Level 6: take 1 level of Sleepless Detective
Level 7: be a wizard.
Level 8+: Arcane Trickster.

The Sleepless Detective prestige class from Paths of Prestige grants you +1d6 sneak attack at level 1. It also gives you a souped-up version of Detect Magic, and lets you add your Intelligence modifier to Perception and Sense Motive and gets both of those as class skills. That is super, super useful.

Your sneak attack progression looks like this:

6: +1d6 Sleepless Detective
7: +1d6 VMC
9: +1d6 AT
11: +2d6 VMC, AT
13: +1d6 AT
15: +2d6 VMC, AT
17: +1d6 AT
19: +1d6 VMC

In the end, you trail a full wizard by one caster level, but you get full sneak attack dice. You also get some significantly better perception and social skills than your average wizard.

This build has some significant disadvantages. You have almost no free feats, and having to meet the entry requirements of TWO prestige classes places some severe constraints on how you can spend your skill points during your early levels. Still, if you can anticipate playing this PC long enough to reach those high levels, it works very well.

Getting sneak attacks

As an Arcane Trickster, melee is not your friend. Ranged touch attack spells are your bread and butter. Such as:

Ray of Frost
Acid Splash
Snowball (no SR allowed, which is handy)
Acid Arrow
Scorching Ray
Elemental Assessor
Disintegrate
Meteor Swarm

In order to qualify, you need to attack from concealment. Invisibility is key, particularly Greater Invisibility. But also keep your ranks in stealth maxed out: the monster's True Seeing doesn't help it if you can duck behind an obstacle and then blast it from an unexpected exit point.

At higher levels, Mind Blank will keep your invisibility spells relevant. Because True Seeing is not explicitly listed as being negated by Mind Blank, some GMs rule that Mind Blank does not cancel it, or that it does cancel the spell but not innate monster abilities that replicate the spell. Talk this point over with your GM to make sure you're both on the same page.

There is nothing quite like the joy of sneak attacking with Disintegrate -- even if they pass their save, they're still taking 5d6 plus your sneak attack dice. Sadly, I have never managed to sneak attack someone with a Meteor Swarm. But I live in hope.

Gear

You want to choose a ring as your Arcane Bond object, save up your coppers, and enchant it as a Ring of Invisibility. This is incredibly useful for scouting, for fleeing, and -- in a pinch -- for getting in a sneak attack every other round. Though if you're in that position, you might be better advised to flee.

You want a pair of Sniper Goggles as soon as you can afford them. It may be worth picking up Craft Wondrous Item just so you can make these for yourself. The Greater version is even better, but even the normal makes it much easier to get your sneak attacks in.

It doesn't hurt to have some Dust of Disappearance as a backup source of invisibility, largely because it negates See Invisibility and Invisiblity Purge.


Huzzah!

Naenae!

Your GM allowed you U.Rogue after all!

Congratulations!

... that's really all I've got to add to this conversation, at present, but I'm glad you're having fun!

(Sorry about the demise of your other character.)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

What about Snakebite Striker Brawler 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 10/Wizard 6 with VMC Rogue and Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 3?

1. 1d6 (Brawler)
3. 2d6 (Accomplished Sneak Attacker)
6. 3d6 (Arcane Trickster)
7. 4d6 (VMC Rogue)
8. 5d6 (AT)
10. 6d6 (AT)
11. 7d6 (VMC)
12. 8d6 (AT)
14. 9d6 (AT)
15. 10d6 (VMC)
19. 11d6 (VMC)

+11d6 Sneak Attack, Caster Lever 19


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Accomplished Sneak Attacker specifies "Your number of sneak attack dice cannot exceed half your character level (rounded up)." So sadly, it doesn't let you get ahead of a normal rogue.

However, you could use it to gain the quick AT entry, and then once your second VMC sneak attack die kicks in you could retrain it.


Checkout the item Mage's Crossbow if you want to use ray spells very much. I have a theorycraft AT that uses spellslinger wizard due to how they line up well but have been unable to actually test it yet.


There's no reason to sneak attack with 'silly' spells when you can pull a sneak attack with Battering Blast!

Anyhow, a concept I've been kicking around for an Elven blade-master trickster thing goes something like:

Fighter 1/ Snakebite Striker Brawler 1/ Exploiter Wizard 4/ Arcane Trickster 2/ Eldritch Knight 1/ ???

1Fi. Weapon Finesse / +Power Attack
2SB. +1d6SA
3Wi. Persistent Spell / Exploit: Potent Magic
4Wi.
5Wi. Accomplished Sneak Attacker / +2d6SA
6AT.
7AT. ??? / +3d6SA
8Wi. Exploit: Dimensional Slide
9EK. +??? / ???

...where Persistent Dazzling Blade with Potent Magic busts eyeballs. Also Glitterdust. The move to EK keeps BAB more effective and gets an iterative attack by 9; at which point some combination of EK and Trickster move up BAB, casting and Sneak Attack.

This is meant to keep within PFS boundaries, but if you can use Prestigious Spellcaster to grab back a casting level then so much the better.


I trully forgot of the Acomplished Sneak Attacker. >>bonks self<< I will use it on lvl 3 to get the 2d6 for AT.

Also regarding 'silly spells'. I have a limited use of 'big spells' per day. And Acid Splash is a 0 lvl and infinite per day. Normally it's poop for a wizard at this lvl, but for AT its a safe way of delivering Sneak Spells to some weaker pawns. It offers no save and no spell resistance. And you can blast all those that are about to die or the smallest rats in the pack. I would rather save the Rays, Cones and Balls from the leveled spells for the bigger guys.

So far for my lvl 1 spells I went for Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Color Spray, Burning Hands, Feather Fall and Detect Secret Doors. She will have a constant Detect Magic active from her fey eyes. Any changes you would propose?


Rather than Detect Secret Doors I'd get Heightened Awareness as more generally useful. Burning Hands is just terrible unless you have a feat or something to boost it which you don't - maybe get a couple of flasks of Alchemist's Fire in case of swarms and get a spell like Vanish instead because even very short duration invisibility can be a game changer for a roguish type.


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If you want to enter the Arcane Trickster prestige class as quickly as possible without losing any caster levels, you can do the following:

1) Advance 7 levels in any arcane spellcasting class and take VMC Rogue to gain sneak attack +1d6 at 7th level.

2) Immediately retrain a previously taken feat to Accomplished Sneak Attacker. You now have sneak attack +2d6 and (if you already took care of the other prerequisites) you can begin advancing as an Arcane Trickster at 8th level -- 2 levels earlier than suggested above.


NaeNae wrote:
Also regarding 'silly spells'. I have a limited use of 'big spells' per day. And Acid Splash is a 0 lvl and infinite per day. Normally it's poop for a wizard at this lvl, but for AT its a safe way of delivering Sneak Spells to some weaker pawns. It offers no save and no spell resistance. And you can blast all those that are about to die or the smallest rats in the pack. I would rather save the Rays, Cones and Balls from the leveled spells for the bigger guys.

What about using a spell like Ghost Whip for your sneak damage? With some investment in whip skills, you can make incorporeal/corporeal touch attacks with lethal damage. Maybe even with Slashing Grace: Whip.


MeriDoc- wrote:

Magus 6, Rogue 1-3, Arcane trickster X

presient attack (lv 6 magus)- gets people denied dex to end of your nxt turn.

Arcane accuracy get your int bonus to hit

Magus, Kenai, bladebound, etc whatever you like. Magus gets you additional attacks.

Rogue, plain, unchained, knifemaster, etc. Whatever you like.

Limited spell options - if that matters to you is the negative.

If dead set on Arcane trickster: Eldritch Scoundrel 7/Arcane Trickster 10/Eldritch Scoundrel 3

VMC Magus

Earlier entry into Arcane Trickster with a wider spell selection while retaining access to Arcana and Spellstrike.

DrDeth wrote:
Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Play a Magus (kensai) and take the Trapfinder and Seeker traits.

Dervish Dance. Invest in stealth.

Now you have a magic rogue.

with 2skp/ level, which is by no means enough.

Ignoring being an INT based caster, human, Fast Learner, Cunning.

Seriously, if a magus is only getting 2 skp/level, the player has made a serious mistake in stat allocation. Even more so with the kensai, who also gets INT to AC, Initiative, and Damage.

My highest level currently active character is a bladebound kensai also filling the party roles of scout and trapper. He's pulling 8 skp/level atm, and could manage more should he choose to invest additional resources.

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